Seriously dude? This is an example of a player not even commiting a crime and still being suspended for a significant part of the season, because he slapped someone who tried to hit him first. If Hoke had done this we would all be applauding him.
Carlos Hyde suspended first 3 games of season.
Overall, i agree with your sentiments, but this is a case of someone not getting charged with a crime. There's a big difference between that and not committing a crime.
Don't be that guy. He wasn't even charged, btw. He was a "person of interest". Also, the video doesn't show him hitting the girl conclusively.
Even if he were charged, police charge innocent people every day.
I'm not being that guy. If one of our players took a swing at a girl, whether she swung first or not, whether he was charged or not, I'd expect and want Hoke to impose a similar, if not harsher punishment.
If you're cool with a guy, let alone a football player, taking a swing at a woman, then there's really no need for further discussion since we'll never agree
The video was inconclusive on whether Hyde actually physically harmed the "victim." The bouncer said Hyde pretty much just "smushed" her face to push her away rather than a full-forced slap.
he took a swing at a "girl". Look at the video!
BTW, why does gender matter, if you are in such a punnishing mood? Would it be cool if Hyde "took a swing at a guy"? Does that deserve a lesser suspension? If so, why?
Also, she's not a "girl", she's a woman. Get it right 1960's chauvinist.
I've been called a lot of things, but a '1960s chauvinist' is not one of them. I'm also not in a 'punnishing' mood, or even in a punishing one. That being said, if you think there's no difference between trying to hit a man and trying to hit a woman, you're too stupid to argue with on the Internet.
Why are you trying to change the argument and bring chauvinism into the conversation? Have you run out of legitimate ways to defend your point of view? Also, the term girl is equivalent to the term guy in the world in which I live.
He's bringing "chauvinism" into the conversation because if you look at this whole thread, look how many times its mentioned that he hit a WOMAN.
The attitude that a man can never ever ever hit a woman even if she hits first is tied up in a lot of sexist assumptions: women can't control themselves and can't be responsible for starting a fight, women can never physically harm a man, only men are capable of violence. It's "respect" for women, but respect based on the assumption that they are the weaker sex.
The reality is that this would be a non-incident if two women or two men were involved. (Though I do think a short suspension for getting into a fight would be appropriate if Hyde had done the same thing to another man - he's a representative of his University and should be held to a high standard) Each party hit once (Hyde didn't swing first) and walked away with no apparent serious injuries. So I think I discussion of our gender-based assumptions is warranted here.
She's one year out of high school. Not sure you should be getting up in someone's business about calling her a girl.
He tried to hit a woman. If he donned our laundry, I would like to think Hoke would've kicked that fuckhead off the team - regardless of whether or not charges were filed.
I'll probably get negged for this but I don't think I'd agree with kicking him off the team for hitting a woman who struck him first (I know, he should have walked away but people make misakes). I think suspension is enough for an attack such as this: he was provoked, he didn't keep hitting her, and it wasn't planned. No need to practically ruin someone's career (they don't always transfer and become stars) over a heat of the moment offense like this, just makes sure he learns that he should never strike a woman.
I'll happily neg you.
""he didn't keep hitting her"
You don't learn never to strike a woman.
Certainly neither of us are condoning hitting women, but there's a difference between beating the hell out of a woman (Chris Brown) and losing your cool for a split second (Hyde). Hyde lost his cool and walked away, I think a suspension is good enough here
which Meyer may, could alter one's perception of the appropriate punishment quite a bit. We don't know the circumstances.
Unfortunately, some people aren't raised the way we were raised, and DO have to be taught that (not Hyde specifically, I don't know him or his parents). I wasn't arguing for whether or not he should be punished, I actually mentioned that he should be suspended. I was just responding to someone who was suggesting that he be kicked off the team and voicing my opinion that it is too harsh a punishment. Sorry I was blunt with my wording and I hate violence against women (any violence really) but that's just my opinion. You are free to have your own.
winner winner chicken dinner!
Especially when you are a 200+ lb football player and your "opponent" is a teenage girl.
Those guys were watching and pointing at the girls but didnot have the balls to talk to them. So they had their boy who they think can't hear no because his status on the team go up for them. Sure he said something really appropriate to her for her to act that way. So I wouldn't say she started it. They weren't messing with the group of guys, the guys were hounding them.
asked her to dance, and when she said no, he probably covered his tracks in front of his friends in the loud club and replied "NO, I said...you look fat in those pants!"
I don't care if she hit him first, you don't ever raise your hand to a woman unless you're fearing for your life.
It doesn't matter if he actually connected or not. He took a swing that's what matters.
He was a person of interest because witnesses said he punched the victim. We have an "anonymous source close to the investigation" who says Hyde got punched (self edit 1: I should say "hit") and did not punch the victim, and another source, a reporter, who went on the record saying she saw the video and Hyde clearly punched (self edit 2: Again, I should really say "hit") the victim.
Just because the victim decided not to press charges doesn't mean he didn't hit her. He should still be punished for even being around this scenario and it sounds like he is.
And the only significant part of Ohio's schedule is The Game. The rest would be a cakewalk even if they weren't title contenders.
If one of our players swung at a woman regardless, he'd be off the team, and hopefully out of Ann Arbor
This is an example of a player not even commiting a crime
If you watched the video, he clocked her good. She was staggered and then her girlfriend came over to comfort her and check out her injury. She was obviously distraught. This was more than just a shove-off.
She got coerced hard into not pressing charges . . . by the ever OSU-compliant Columbus police. A lot of domestic violence does not get reported as a crime, but that does not mean a crime was not comitted.
But he didn't initiate the violence (she swung first), so it's probably not a crime (or both parties committed a crime).
Do you really want a justice system where women can commit physical violence on a man and if he hits back, he (and only he) goes to jail? Yeah, that's really going to be good for domestic violence.
Women are people too. That means they can be guilty. They can be violent and they can be abusers. If you don't think so, you may think you're "respecting" women, but you're actually being really condescending.
In this particular incident, Hyde had the opportunity to leave after her swing, and we don't know what he said that provoked her to swing at him (probably nothing good). So morally I think he's culpable, but legally I don't think he should be. In that light, a short suspension seems entirely appropriate.
bad behavior is bad behavior ...the ONLY reason it wasnt a crime was the victim didnt want to press charges...something that happens ALOT in college towns...Im sure she received ALOT of pressure from locals to NOT press charges to PROTECT their precious buckeyes....
I like how the person out of frame feels it necessary to point out the interesting part of the action here.
Love this picture. It's breath-takingly awesome in it's devestating power. It is to be saved for the nuclear threshold. It's always the instant end to any Michigan-Ohio State argument.
That's a pretty reasonable penalty in today's moral equations. Johnny Manziel was in the middle of an actual bar brawl and got zero games suspension. We could list various Michigan indiscretions over the years that garnered similar or lighter penalties compared to the offense.
People can talk about treatment of women and Carlos Hyde being generally a dirtbag and I don't discount it, but if you're gonna get on that soapbox that he should be suspended for half the year or a year for hitting a woman, then every player who ever drove drunk should also face a similar suspension, for something that's just as despicable and more dangerous.
You're kidding yourself if you ever actually expected more of a penalty, and I think most would have expected less.
"then every player who ever drove drunk should also face a similar suspension, for something that's just as despicable and more dangerous."
When you say "ever drove drunk" do you mean over the legal limt of perhaps drinking 2.5 beers in one hour and driving down the street to a friends is as dispicable as intentionally and publicly slapping a woman across the face?
Or do you mean "stinking drunk" and then driving? Or both equally?
I see where you're going with this and trying to justify that it's ok if someone "just drove to a friend's place" after having 2.5 beers in an hour, so I'll just say the act by everyone who ever drove drunk enough that their driving skills were significantly impaired is as despicable (IMO) as intentionally and publicly slapping a woman, and there is no argument whatsoever that it's not significantly more dangerous. The despicableness is subjective based on societal norms and we could disagree, but the dangerousness is objective fact.
Despite the fact our society is more non-chalant about drunk driving (simply due to the frequency), drunk driving kills a fuckload of people, and slapping women, while despicable and evidence of terrible moral character, does not.
I merely meant to show there is a big difference between something being "despicable" and being "dangerous".
Credit where it's due. Kid wasn't charged with anything after the video got out, and I wouldn't have expected him to get suspended at all.
If Meyer didn't suspend him, none of the OSU players would listen to the other 4 things on his wall of "things everyone( except OSU players) knows you shouldn't do".
That's the thing, we don't know what his actions were besides a bit of grainy surveillance footage with no context. Once he wasn't charged, Meyer could have done what a lot of coaches would do and reinstated him immediately. Instead, he suspended him for three games, which seems like a reasonable punishment. I'm not saying Hyde is a saint, I'm saying Meyer handled it well.
I'm not disagreeing with you on Hyde. I'm not here to judge whether he's a good person or a bad person, should or shouldn't be going to jail, or anything like that. All I'm saying that Meyer had a "legitimate" out as far as reinstating Hyde immediately, one that many coaches have used, and is instead taking steps to discipline him.
You are correct: She was hit in the face. And hard enough to shake up her and everyone else around her. There is no speculation here. There is no "out" for Meyer
Credit Meyer for this. It should at least show Hyde to not put himself in the wrong place at the wrong time.
In order to keep the OSU threads to a minimum, interesting news regarding interacting with recruits. Demetrius Knox was interacting with members of the 11 warriors board and it's a secondary violation for OSU.
More support of this sites constant reminder: DON'T TWEET RECRUITS
I figured it was a violation anyway when I saw that he posted there, but knew it wouldn't be anything major. Amazing how so many there are so surprised by the fact that it's a violation, just like they don't see how selling gold pants for cash is a competitive advantage.
Knox was the one who initiated the contact. He held an AMA thread over there too.
Wow, really? That is beyond dumb of the NCAA.
Yet another illustration of why teams are insane to schedule ultra-hard non-conference games early in the season, especially the first game. I'm not sure why all teams don't just pad their schedules with at least one creampuff at the beginning now. Not to get an easy win or some game experience, but to absorb many of the small suspensions that inevitably occur over the long, long offseason.
Not that Cal is going to be that tough. We're talking about a low-tier Pac 12 team that OSU should beat by two touchdowns here, Hyde or no Hyde.
Cal would have beaten OSU in Columbus last year if their kicker (and the refs) hadn't pooped his pants repeatedly. And it isn't like they were awesome in 2012 and will now be significantly worse.
You have good insights but could you consider switching up your Avatar? Im sure it's probably someone else but it's sort of creepy. Apologies if it's some sort of inside joke...
Eh, good call Urban... Unnecessary but perhaps warranted punishment.
he's not guilty either, if that makes sense. The Cal game will be interesting, especially if Cal can key in and stop Miller. Wisconsin could also be interesting if Hyde is still rusty after playing only a cupcake the week before. But still, unless they drop one to Northwestern, I see them rolling into Ann Arbor undefeated.
They may be without another starter or two as well for that Cal game. Would be nice to see the early season suspensions for the easy games potentially knock them out of he MNC race early on.
While he'll probably be suspended, I don't think Urban will suspend him for the Cal game, especially with Hyde already being out.
I'd rather him be charged with a crime and not suspended one game. This is a horrible example to our youth when the justice system doesn't take action. I know the female swung first, but I just don't have patience for male on female violence.
if you expect a guy to take it like a bitch he is if a girl punch a guy and does it repeatedly. Can't do it and not expect retailation. What Hyde has done is perfectly normal for a human behavior. The double standard is stupid IMO. He just slapped her face which is nothing compared to the girl who initated the contact by punching him. Saying Hyde should've been charged is silly.
That being said, there's no place for human on human violence whether if it's a guy or a girl.
My ex-wife tried to claw out my eyeballs when I was driving down the interstate. I stopped the car and got out and walked home in the sleet and snow. Sorry buddy, as soon as you hit a woman you're a piece of shit.
I expect him to take it like a man. He already did take it like a bitch with what he did. You don't hit women, just don't.
Don't know how to embed. Anyway, he definitely swung a slap at the 1:00-1:01 mark, but nothing close to the original "he punched her in the face and knocked her out" reports.
After watching the video, it's worse than I imagined. That looked like a punch to the face. Yes, she tried to slap him, but how can man, let alone a 245 lb football player, hit a woman like that?
If I was the coach, he would have gotten more than 3 games.
Doesn't mean he didn't commit a crime. I am not on the attack Urban bandwagon, but my understanding is the girl chose not to press charges. That really isn't the same thing as Hyde didn't hit her. It could mean many different things from a non-contact swing to contact but no desire for continued press or hounding by the girl over the issue. There is a lot of grey with this issue. I certainly didn't expect zero suspension for clear misconduct, and don't know how much he should've gotten, but three isn't a statement, in my mind. I'll forego any personal judgment with how much is unclear, but I'm not going to begin passing out Urban bracelets over this one.
Honestly, the video shows as much evidence that she committed assault (and possibly battery) as it does that Hyde did. Certainly she appears to have made the first escalation from verbal to physical altercation. That may have something to do with her decision not to press charges, and I think it's wrong to assume (as many seem to be) that she chose to drop the charges because she was paid off or something.
Good for Urban. Three games seems about right.
games though? If he was allowed to play the first 3 games and then suspended the next 3, people would complaing about that too.
If Ohio played Michigan's schedule last year: Alabam and Notre Dame. I wonder if Hyde would have gotten 3 games. Of any at all with Alabama opening day.
As football players, especially for high profile programs, you have to be held to higher standards. Hyde made a bad decision even if it wasn't an actual crime and he's paying a price. Not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but pretty big. I don't like Urban but I can't fault him for this.
It should make no difference whether charges were filed or not. The video is out there, he hit a girl, closed fist or not, hard as he could or not; it wasn't playful and it's quite clear from the video that the girl was hurt and upset afterward. So Hyde sits 3 games, and everyone's good with that?! This is utterly ridiculous and an indictment on society in general if you ask me.
I agree, what the f*@! - I had to check the browser address to make sure I am on the correct site. Urban is a slime ball & I do not not see how this can make people act like he did what needed to be done, if not more. Hyde smacked the girl plain and simple, pressing charges or not does not make any difference, so to say a 3 game suspension is about right or too much, makes me just wonder if I'm the f'n idiot.
Know this, I would bet my life that had OSU been playing Bama in the first game, good ol' Urb wouldn't have did anything but said he sat down and had a bible study with Hyde and now everything is fine and dandy.
Is this 11W?
This is not the first, nor second time Haggerup has had issues, so that's in no way an accurate comparison to make. 3 games is more than I would have expected (from Urban, or Hoke if it was someone on Michigan) for this. While I agree you never hit a woman, she assaulted him first, and it doesn't look like he punched her. He'll hopefully learn his lesson and won't make the mistake again.
Your missing the main point, but I agree that there's no comparison. You're also right that it wasn't Hagerup's first time. Let's try this, exactly how many joints does one have to smoke before it's worse than hitting a woman in the face?
Is it two.. or three?
Three games sounds reasonable.
However, honestly, I don't think they'll miss Hyde much. I would say that it will impact the Cal game, but I don't think so. Remember, Hyde didn't play that game due to an injury he suffered in the offseason. Jordan Hall took the carries and managed to pick up 87 yards, with Braxton getting 75 on his own. Hall is a senior and Dunn is a viable backup, so barring any surprises, their running game will be fine. It's the defense that will make a difference. If Roby is suspended, that may tip the scales in Cal's favor.
I still think they'll drop a game to an underdog, but all reliable predictions will still have them undefeated going into The Game.
At least Urban punished Hyde. It's better than saying, "No harm, no foul." Setting a trend with the starting tailback might actually make them think twice before doing something stupid.
They play nobody all year until northwestern and Michigan. They will be exposed in both of those games.
That horrendous defense of theirs is going to get shredded in Evanston at night. And don't be surprised if purdue if beats them too. They haven't won in WL since 2007 and needed a miracle to win at home last year.
Their 12-0 was only smoke and mirrors. Michigan shot themselves in the foot repeatedly in the 2nd half due to the offense & Borges deciding to take a Siesta.
That WON'T happen this year.
If I was Carlos Hyde I would be more worried about my dad than my coach for my actions towards a woman.
...the girl instigated the altercation. That is a crime. Hyde's response was not proportionate or reasonable IMO. Nonetheless, I ask myself: would I want this kid on my team, based on the environment and occurrance? What message would I want my alma mater's head coach to send in response? I keep hearing Hoke in my mind saying one word: accountability. I have always believed THAT is the MICHIGAN Difference.
Clearly Hyde instigated what happened. Call me old school, but I believe a woman slapping a guy is the appropriate and necessary response to him verbally disrespecting her. Not assault, whatever the law says. Throwing a punch or kicking him is different. But if a girl slaps in response to an inappropriate comment--totally appropriate.
So his hit is the first assault. And it is also socially wrong. Hyde should be on women's future domestic abuser radar, and that should be Urban's main concern, not "distractions" he keeps complaining about in the media. A guy who hits a girl in public who he just shamed will do it in private for whatever reason he wants. And to me, teaching him to change and respect women takes more than three games. And I agree, Hoke would've done more than three. Three cupcakes is a wrist slap. Hoke has taken guys out for whole seasons, huge impact players like Stonum, and little is worse than swinging on a woman, especially after instigating the conflict.
oh, so assault/battery is appropriate response to verbal abuse? damn i wish i lived in a world where i could go around slapping people for calling me names.
Stonum wasn't suspended for multiple games until after he had committed a string of offenses related to DUI.
DUI is much more dangerous than a slap to the face.
Frankly, since 1 game seems to be the going rate for a first alcohol related infraction, 3 games for a minor bar altercation seems reasonable to harsh.
-Carlos Hyde is a scumbag.
-He was likely drunk
-The girl tried to slap him
-He didn't think about his options for a long amount of time before he attempted to? succeeded to? slap her, his career shouldnt be permanently derailed for a baited, reactionary offense.
-3 games at the beginning of the season is nothing, but his name is soiled forever, ohio looks bad, and he is feeling that night much more than the girl.
-Ubrz issued a fair punishment. The zero tolerance thing is BS, but what from him hasn't been? It is clear that he has already lost most of his credibility (check the headlines), and that sign is more of a PR gimmick than an actual code of ethics. That being said, the punishment fits what is shown on tape.
-If the speaker wasn't blocking the camera, it could have looked a lot worse, but it isn't fair to Hyde to speculate what it may have looked like.
-If they suspended Hyde for the season, the girl would have had to move to Nashville.
-If this happened at UM, I would want him gone. UM is different from Ohio. If you haven't learned that by now I don't know what to tell you.
... how divided this board is about this. I fall on the side of you never hit a woman unless you're in real danger. Clearly, he was not in danger. His swing was one of anger and hostility, provoked or not. If Hoke only suspended a player on our team for 3 games for assaulting a woman I'd lose all respect for him... regardless of how good a recruiter he is.
I detest bullies as much as anyone but I don't see how you can suspend him for anymore games in view of no charges being filed.
Meyer probably knows he hit her.
a non-factor. Coaches punish for crimes as a PR machine, nothing less--because they have to. Coaches punish for wrong behaviors because they actually care about molding young men and doing what's right.
Crimes are a result of charges pressed, not necessarily behaviors clarified. In many cases, yes, but not in assault. So if he hit her but she chose not to pursue it, he's off legally. Still, the coach's responsibility is to discipline the behavior for the purpose of character development, not discipline to spin a nice ending onto a sad story for the public.
Valuing whether it actually becomes criminally prosecuted is Meyer's way of thinking about punishment because it's now a "distraction" to the team, which he called this many times. Good coaches don't see players' issues as distractions; they become the main thing for that player as they try to mold their character.
Just because the police (read "victim") aren't pressing charges, does NOT mean he comitted no crime. Jeebus.
Josh Furman was suspended indefinitely... but reinstated after his case went to court and he was acquitted...now that there aren't going to be charges and there's damning video... it's a statement punishment for Ohio. 3 games is about right IMO. These are young people who make mistakes. If it went to court - I don't think Hyde would have played until it was done.
I suppose I can't argue one side or the other if fair or not. And yes Hyde has been dragged through the mud of public opinion. But time and winning heals all wounds. No one will remember this in 5 years if he goes on to be a heisman winner, national championship winner or a super bowl winner.
We will, and people who arent from ohio will be eager to hear our stories, because that's how people are.
Does the punishment fit the crime? Probably.
That said, had this been some freshman nobody, he would have been gone for the year. Keep punishments consistent.
agree. The Gardener suspension was more questionable than the Hyde one. Running from the cops>>> slapping 110 lb chick??? Well done-- turned a negative into a positive-- and the kid actually thinks the door is open for a return. Hilarious.
I never thought I'd say this, but I applaud Urban Meyer. I am guessing that he has more info than we do, becuase I've still never seen any evidence that he actually did anything except get yelled at by some drunk.
Lol...Urbz gets to look good by coming down hard on Hyde but they still aren't playing anyone those 3 games. If Texas, USC, Miami or one of the other marquee OOC opponents they played over the past decade was on the schedule, Hyde would be playing
For a coach who says not beating women is a core value and there's proof he slapped her, I find it a very minor penalty for him. Also, the fact she doesn't wanna press charges seems kinda fishy to me like maybe the osu fan base where threaten her...idk maybe I'm way off but that's jus how I feel
While the core value is documented, punishment for not exhibiting them in your day-to-day actions is not, and I'm sure that's by design on Urban's part. It's one thing to paint maxims on a wall to give the illusion of control and discipline, but excluding any penalty to go along with them just means it's window dressing.
If the karma existsts, Cal will open the half with a 28-0 lead. Hyde will be reinstated at halftime, and OSU will lose 28-27. that is the best case scenario as of now.
If the karma existsts, Cal will open the half with a 28-0 lead. Hyde will be reinstated at halftime, and OSU will lose 56-0*. that is the best case scenario as of now.
We should all remember this while constructing our signs for the game this year....
I love how the first 30-some-odd comments here are a deep discussion over whether or not Hyde hit a woman according to grainy, inconclusive security film and equally-contradictory first-hand accounts.
I'm amazed he's even sitting out part of the season. I'm sure he did something in that club that you'd rather him not do, but this not the first nor last time instances like this will occur. Hope would have handled it about the same, if perhaps a bit less swarmy. I've said this all along - nobody "wins" if the reason a player misses a game is because he hit someone at a club. I don't like OSU in the slightest, but people being disappointed that he didn't get more of an official punishment because he apparently didn't hit a woman hard enough (which is basically the argument here) seems silly to me.
will be tougher to reach this season.
I think this is about right. I was expecting a suspension that included at least one conference game, but 3-4 isn't outrageous to me. The fact that charges were ultimately dropped has no bearing on this situation in my mind. If there wasn't a viedo, the story would be different. I am guessing he would have been suspended half a game or maybe a full game at the most if visual evidence hadn't been released to the public. On the other hand, Frank Clark pled guilty to a felony last year and only missed a game. I don't recall the OSU or UM fans reaction to that, but, in hindsight, that seems light to me. The difference there is, we don't know all the facts, at least I don't...
Charge was dropped, but this still looks bad. Meyer suspending him for three games is the right call. Cal will get interesting but Hyde will be back before any damage is done. I think Urban Meyer made the right call here and suspended him for a satisfactory amount of time.