Career High for Trey Tonight

Submitted by Bill the Butcher on

Career high 30 points (12-20; 4-8 from 3) 8 assists, 7 rebounds leading the Jazz to a win over the Magic.  

 

Timmy currently has 8 points and 3 assists in his game which is midway through the 3rd.

 

 

Hotroute06

December 18th, 2013 at 11:35 PM ^

Lasthoke Im sorry to have missed all your posts.  Everything I was thinking you said with a lot more clarity.  The bottom line is I think everyone should be very happy with Pope thus far as hes PERFECT for THIS pistons team.  The guy is all over the court always hustling and that defense is just awesome with flashes of offensive ability.   Comparing upsides at this point.  Pope > Burke 

TheLastHarbaugh

December 19th, 2013 at 12:13 AM ^

That has basically been my argument.

I think that they can BOTH be good draft picks.

Did I want the Pistons to draft Trey Burke? Absolutely. 

Is the NBA Draft thread filled with several posts from me along the lines of, "YOU HAD BETTER DRAFT TREY BURKE!" and, "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" when he wasn't selected.

However, if you go back and look at that thread you'll also see me talking about how maybe Dumars has other plans in mind, perhaps a trade on the horizon for a point guard. 

Not drafting Trey sucks, but that doesn't make it a mistake.

Hell, Burke can even end up being a better player than KCP but it could still end up being the right choice if KCP is a better fit for the team, and provides the Pistons with value. Also, if the Jennings trade works out, that could be another point in favor of drafting KCP.

People aren't honest with regard to this subject every time it comes up. If they were really looking out for the Pistons' best interest they'd be more upset that they didn't draft MCW because he has been far and away the best rookie in the league and he happens to play point guard.

They're not though. It's all about Trey Burke, and like I've said. That's fine. It's 100% understanable, but don't try to rationalize what is coming from a place of irrationality by making stuff up. Like that Burke has been playing at such a high level in comparison to KCP.

Cold War

December 19th, 2013 at 6:26 AM ^

You keep talking about facts over feelings and being honest with yourself. Sometimes we need to look in the mirror and take our own advice.

Burke has simply been the better player. It would have been nice to have a reson to actually watch the Pistons.

Blue in Yarmouth

December 19th, 2013 at 8:40 AM ^

You don't even have to go back to the fire borges stuff to see his hypocrisy. He said previously that essentially the only reason someone would think Burke was better is because they were homers, while ignoring the fact he's a Detroit Pistons Homer.

You know, I didn't remember him specifically from the fire borges threads, but while I was reading his comments about Joe Dumars Drafting Darko I said to myself, "this is a guy that totally  ignores reality and will stick up for his guys with irrational arguements in an attempt to prove himself right...He must have been one of the Keep Borges group." Now I find out that was the case. Not surprising in the least. 

Hotroute06

December 19th, 2013 at 12:40 AM ^

on a side note,  Brandon Knight scored 36 points in a double overtime thriller against the knicks tonight?!?!  Joe Dumars WTF !?!?!  fire him now

Spunky

December 19th, 2013 at 7:47 AM ^

I saw on Twitter that Trey Burke, LeBron, Durant, Kevin Love, Damian Lillard, and Jamal Crawford are the only players to have 30 points, 7 rebounds, and 8 assists in a game this year. He's certainly in good company on that list. 

Also, I noticed a new block "M" tattoo on Trey's arm.  

Chainz29

December 19th, 2013 at 12:22 PM ^

And the absurd comments of TheLastHoke frustrate me. You ignore the "stats' of everyone else. You say the Jennings trade was in the works, but  ther was ZERO talk of that trade before hand. In fact the main reason they drafted KCP is because the Pistons had ZERO perimeter defense. That was regardless of Jennings and even more so now with Jennings.

 

So in your own words stop being a homer and if defense is your only agrument then simply say that KCP is a better defender b/c based on STATS he is better than KCP in almost every other category.

repole

December 19th, 2013 at 2:47 PM ^

Alright TheLastHoke, here's a pretty compelte statistical breakdown of what we know about both players so far in their NBA time, since you keep saying the stats are telling a different story than what most are saying here:

KCP

Defensively

  • Team defense improves 8.8 points per 100 possessoins while KCP is on the court. How much of this has to do with Stuckey being a terrible defender, and that Pope is coming off the bench and likely facing inferior offensive units because of it, is debatable. That's why adjusted plus minus exists, but it's far too early in the season (and in their careers) for APM to hold any weight.
  • He's holding opponents to a sub 13 PER and just under 50 eFG%. The eFG% is actually subpar, but he does a nice job of preventing FTAs, and forces a good number of turnovers it appears.
  • Synergy has him as a .93 PPP defender, which is a decent bit below average (256th in the NBA). He's been excellent fighting through screens to contest shots, and does a good job in PnR defense, but those sample sizes are too small to draw definite conclusions. Again, overall, Synergy doesn't think he's anything special.
  • His dRtg is 109, but dRtg is a pretty useless stat that is more closely tied to your defensive rebounding stats and your team's defense than your actual defensive performance. I'm just putting this here in case someone else tries to reference individual dRtg one way or another.

Offensively

  • 2.1 points worse with KCP on the court. Again, same caveats as defensive +/- apply.
  • 72% of his makes are assisted. As you'd suspect the vast majority of his offense is created by others for him.
  • His 1.4 FTA per 36 leave a lot to be desired compared to his college numbers. That's partially because of his role, but still, that was the number one thing I was keeping an eye on with him in his transition to the NBA, and so far it hasn't translated.
  • 45.7% TS% is pretty terrible, especially when considering his role as mostly a spot up shooter. But, small sample size, wouldn't be too concerned yet.
  • 3.6 rebounds per 36, 1.4 assists, he isn't exactly filling up the box score in that regard.
  • 3.5% TO%, this is AMAZING. I don't think I've ever seen someone with that low of a turn over rate, even in a spot up shooting role, really impressive from a rookie.
  • 104 oRtg. All of his offensive struggles shooting the ball essentially get off set by his tremendously low turnover rate. Unlike individual dRtg, individual oRtg is termendously useful, and tells you a lot about how efficient a player is with the possessions they use.
  • .88 PPP according to Synergy. Tells us pretty much the same thing as oRtg, but their methods are different. This ranks 208th in the NBA.
  • 15.3 usage rate, which tells us, as expected, that he isn't exactly the focal point of the offense. As a result, his 9.4 PER, which is directly tied to usage, is unimpressive.

Early Conclusion: Defensive signs are positive, offensively he's shown close to nothing of note outside of his low turnover rate. He hasn't had much of an opportunity, so it isn't time to panic in that regard, but offensively I'm a bit discouraged based on his reputation coming out of college.

 

Burke

Defensively:

  • Team defense is 6.3 points worse with Burke on the court per 100 possessions.
  • He's holding opponents to a 15.9 PER. This is below average. He's allowing guys to get inside too much (33% of their FGA are inside), and it seems opponents target him as someone to attack (their usage rate is above average against Burke, though part of that is the nature of the PG position). Opponents also get to the line a good bit against Burke. This is according to 82games.com.
  • Synergy has Burke as a .84 PPP against defender, which is 138th in the NBA and a good bit above average. You may wonder how Synergy and 82games.com could differ so greatly, and which one to put more stock in. My understanding is that 82games.com does their defensive tracking via play by play data, and assumes that the PG on one team is guarding the other team's PG. As we know, switches occur frequently, some teams mix in the occasional zone, and often things don't line up so nicely. Synergy actually tracks every play individually and matches guys up properly, so I'd be far more confident in citing Synergy defensive stats than 82games.
  • His dRtg is 113. Again, this is mostly useless, and dependent on the Jazz being an awful defensive team as a whole.

Offensively:

  • 11.4 points better with Burke on the court per 100 possessions. 
  • 33% of his shots are assisted, as you can imagine, he's creating most of his own offense. This is a bit high compared to some PGs actually, so he isn't in full ball domination mode.
  • 2.3 FTA per 36 isn't overly impressive, but also was expected to be low. 21% of his shots are coming inside (he converts these a slightly subpar 57%), which is actually twice as often as Chris Paul, so it seems safe to say that the concern with his ability to get inside has mostly been answered. Still could stand to finish a bit better, but it hasn't been nearly the issue it was expected to be.
  • 48.9 TS% is in that Brandon Jennings range of bad, but is largely due to his 40.5 eFG% on jumpers, a number that I'd be shocked to see lower than 45% come the end of the year (with his TS% around league average). 
  • 4.3 rebounds per 36, 6.2 assists, solid as a distributor so far if unspectacular.
  • 9.1% TO%, which for any PG is a pretty big deal, and for a rookie PG is historically good.
  • 107 oRtg. Much like KCP, the low turnover rate really helps, and in Burke's case the assists do as well. This is right around league average, which again, for a rookie is impressive.
  • .88 PPP according to Synergy, same as KCP.
  • 23.0% usage rate, so he's using a pretty big chunk of Utah's possessions and doing so rather efficiently (as based on his oRtg and Synergy PPP.

Early Conclusion: Defense is a mixed bag, with Synergy liking him quite a bit, but 82games feeling differently. I'd probably interpret it as being mildly positive at this point, but that's mainly because I don't put much if any stock into raw +/-, so to each their own. Offensively he's actually doing a better job of scoring inside than I expected, and the only issue he's really had is getting his jumper to fall. Anyone who expects that to continue, based on his historically great ability to hit jumpers off the dribble in college, is bordering on insane. The turnver rate is very, very encouraging early on, the assist rate is solid, and all in all it's hard to find much to complain about offensively outside of the struggles with his jumper.