Career High for Trey Tonight
Career high 30 points (12-20; 4-8 from 3) 8 assists, 7 rebounds leading the Jazz to a win over the Magic.
Timmy currently has 8 points and 3 assists in his game which is midway through the 3rd.
December 19th, 2013 at 8:14 AM ^
I don't have a dog in this fight but as someone who has read this thread I have to comment on what I see going on here.
The way I understand it you are suggesting the only way someone can think Trey Burke is Better than this CP guy is if they are homers. You then go on to talk about how your fandom changes over once people leave college and your teams take precendence. There's nothing wrong with that at all,
You then seem to ignore the fact that your love for this CP guy could just as easily be characterized as homerism because he plays for your team while Trey Burke plays for the Jazz.
What really does it for me is this post where you make excuses for your GM by bringing up the fact that a title was won when he clearly (and I mean CLEARLY) made a ridiculous draft pick. You cite a championship as a reason not to be mad and insinuate that if a better player were drafted that championship wouldn't have happened. That's ludicrous. How do you know that they wouldn't have 3 championships + that one had they drafted Bosh or CA?
Again, I don't follow the NBA enough to care which of you are right, but pointing out someone else's homerism and using that to discredit their opinion while clearly ignoring your own is a little too much for me to watch without commenting.
December 19th, 2013 at 10:17 AM ^
Dude you just need to stop. First, there is nothing to say the Pistons still dont win in 2004 with another draft pick. Secondly, what about the 2005 finals and the 3 straight ECF's after 2004? Don't you think Carmelo or Bosh or Wade or hell, even Chris Kaman, would have given them a better shot of winning a Championship after 2004? And, even if they don't trade for Sheed (not a guarantee) then they probably don't let Memo walk. They could have won multiple championships if they take any of those guys over Darko.
So maybe instead of falling all over yourself trying to defend Joe D. you actually look at things objectively. And for the record, the guy I wanted Joe D to draft was Michael Carter Williams.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:22 PM ^
the pistons have been irrelivent for 5 years but they couldnt have survived trey missing a handful of games? what planet are you living on?
the burke pick is, was, and will always be unpopular.
i dont know what knight has to do with this, since he was traded anyway.
umumum is right, you are truly puzzling.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:34 PM ^
What does the Pistons being irrelecant for 5 years have to do with anything?
Drafting Burke would make them relevant in the same way signing Chauncey Billups made them relevant. That is to say, not at all relevant.
You know what makes you relevant? Winning.
I forgot that NBA games were decided based on popularity rather than the actual games being played. Must have missed that memo.
Speaking of relevancy, do you have anything relevant to say, or are you going to continue with these weird rants about nothing?
December 18th, 2013 at 11:42 PM ^
you keep bring up trey's injury like he's greg oden. he missed 8 games. he was healthy his entire michigan career. its a non factor in a year where the pistons are conetending for nothing.
you getting so emotional over people defending a michigan folk hero makes me think you are posting on the wrong board.
December 19th, 2013 at 12:05 AM ^
I'm doing no such thing. That's you making shit up about what I've posted because of your irrational anger towards me.
It's easy to make someone look bad when you characterize them saying, "He's missed a significant portion of the season thus far (33%)," as equivalent to, "OMG! HE'S GREG FUCKING ODEN!"
The Pistons are contending for a lot of things. Namely, Joe Dumars' job. I can see how if you hate Joe D, you would want the Pistons to tank, and him to be fired, but then you're a terrible fan, IMO, and you're an incredibly ignorant fan, because the Pistons don't even have a draft pick in 2014.
The Pistons are playing to build something. Making the playoffs is a start.
The only person getting emotional here is you, as evidenced by your posts. They are completely devoid of any sort of cogent thought or actual evidence. It's just anger over Trey Burke not being drafted by the Pistons, and all of your arguments stem from that place of anger.
December 19th, 2013 at 12:31 AM ^
Pistons pick is top 8 protected, if they were to tank they would almost surely have gotten that pick.
Maybe try and get the facts straight before you call people ignorant.
December 19th, 2013 at 10:20 AM ^
Joe D. had to give the pick away just to get someone to take away one of his numerous humiliating failures in Ben Gordon. Joe D. is a joke and frankly I have no time for the Pistons anymore until he is gone.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:26 PM ^
brandon jennings ts% .493
trey burke ts% .466
Both are inefficient. Jennings isn't playing great by any stretch of the imagination. His bulk stats might be decent, but that's not how basketball is evaluated these days. Sorry. He's also the worst PnR defender in the league.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:35 PM ^
It's almost like you didn't read anything I posted.
December 19th, 2013 at 1:51 AM ^
I read the 20 points higher thing and thought you were implying Jennings is much more efficient. He's not, and this season isn't varying from his career averages. In a thread where you're citing adjusted +/- and WS/48, you might not want to use hyperbole to accentuate your points.
December 19th, 2013 at 7:43 AM ^
"I read the 20 points higher thing and thought you were implying Jennings is much more efficient"
...an then you posted stats showing he's MORE than 20 points higher in TS%.
December 19th, 2013 at 10:28 AM ^
You mean 3 points higher?
December 19th, 2013 at 3:32 PM ^
"You mean 3 points higher?"
No - I mean 27 points higher.
Brandon Jennings TS% = 0.493
Trey Burke TS% = 0.466
0.493-0.466 = .027
December 25th, 2013 at 7:53 PM ^
20 would be .666
December 19th, 2013 at 2:01 AM ^
Even if that where true and you might have a point. A portion of a good GM's job is to get the fan base excited for the next season. Trey Burke could have gotten Pistons fans excited and gave them something to cheer for.
December 19th, 2013 at 12:19 PM ^
Arguing that KCP has been better than Burke is....questionable to say the least. I guess you can talk up his defensive impact, but the Pistons have the 20th best defense in the league, despite a whole host of defensive talent in Smith/Drummond, so just how big of an impact is he having? I agree, the eye test says he's a good defender, and I expect him to continue to be one, but you're greatly overestimating the impact he's had on that side of the court. If you replace KCP with a replacement level player, how many fewer games have the Pistons won at this point? Look at the record of the Jazz with and without Burke, pretty easy to see the type of impact he's had.
You also referenced WS/48 earlier, which with such a small sample size of minutes borders on irrelevent, as shown by the fact that Burke shot significantly past KCP in that metric after last night's game.
Argue that KCP made sense with the Jennings/Smith plan (which was a shitty plan to begin with, but oh well), sure, but to argue that KCP has been the more productive player to this point is a joke.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:04 PM ^
I don't know if you saw but Jennings made a clutch 3 tonight to give us the win. We didn't need a PG, Dumars knew what he was doing.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:09 PM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 10:15 PM ^
Yeah. It had been in the works though.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:27 PM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 10:31 PM ^
That's definitely something people failed to take into consideration then, and in hindisight.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:38 PM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 10:58 PM ^
I know. I'm in the same boat. Simply pointing out that KCP was a good choice, given Burke's injury, as well as the fact that his shooting splits have been about the same as KCP, KCP has actually been a better player thus far taking into consideration his defensive.
Not to mention his relative value as a shooting guard compared to a point guard.
Whatever.
Feelings > Facts
December 18th, 2013 at 11:36 PM ^
as to why pistons fans who are also michigan fans--on a michigan website-- would want a michigan player to play for the pistons. the fact that he has columbus written on his body means absolutely nothing. i would have loooooooved for woodson to play for the lions (yeah he would have to play for the sucklions, but it wouldn't have been much worse than playing for raiders), and the fact that he is from ohio is meaningless.
i do think that people let this get in the way of rationally looking at the situation though.
December 19th, 2013 at 8:25 AM ^
Oh, so we shouldn't be attached to Michigan players who were born outside the state? Pretty silly.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:05 PM ^
but apt comparison---Caldwell-Pope 9-1-0 (but his D was undoubtedly ...)
December 18th, 2013 at 10:23 PM ^
There must be hundreds of "would have been a great piston" posts on the site and I will still start upvoting every one of them. I believe you will only be shaking your fist at joe for 3-4 more months.
December 18th, 2013 at 9:56 PM ^
I miss more the fact that the stupid Pistons passed up on him, Pope is good, but Trey is the next Chris Paul, ugh!
December 18th, 2013 at 9:58 PM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 10:19 PM ^
should have been a Piston
December 18th, 2013 at 10:08 PM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 11:00 PM ^
I think its safe to assume it was a good day for him
December 18th, 2013 at 11:13 PM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 10:18 PM ^
Trey belongs in the NBA and will have a long and productive career - he has earned it!
December 18th, 2013 at 10:18 PM ^
As others have said Jennings is starting to gel and I would take him over Burke. Popes defense has been elite and his hustle is without question. I think Joe D made the right choice. Pistons are fun to watch again and have A LOT of potential.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:41 PM ^
Caldwell-Pope's D is not elite. His D is solid for a 1st year player. It reminds me of the fallacy last year that Levert's D was elite. It wasn't and still isn't---and I like him as a player overall. CP was supposed to be that outside shooter at the 2 that we needed. He contributes very little offensively to date---in totality and per minute--nothing close to Burke. I appreciate that he has limited opportunities on offense since Smith and Jennings dominate the ball.
That gets to my second point---the love for Jennings and the perception that he is markedly better than Burke. The Bucks were not crying crocodile tears when they traded him to the Pistons. He likes to have the ball in his hands---like all the time. He is shooting under 40% this year as well as on his career. He turns the ball over 3.4 times per game---and has a 2.3-1 career assist/turnover ratio. Trey is also shooting under 40%, but I'll bet the proverbial farm that he ends up over 40% by the end of the year---and higher than Jennings. Trey's assist/tounover ratio is 3.7-1. And Trey has helped take the Jazz from arguably the worst team in the NBA to a (somewhat) competitive one. I'd further argue that Trey ain't that far behind Jennings right now and it won't be long before he is simply better.
Now I'm not a Dumars basher and my argument here solely relates to the decision to pass on Trey and not the Pistons historical trades. But this suggestion that the only options were Trey and no 2-guard or Caldwell-Pope and Jennings is a specious one. Jennings cost the Pistons $28 million over 3 years. The Pistons could have and should have spent that money on a proven shooting guard---who could defend. Then it would have been an apt comparison---Trey and the $28 million man.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:49 PM ^
Very, very well articulated. I could not agree more nor can I upvote more.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:05 PM ^
Here are a couple of brief articles outlining KCP's defense, and how it is in fact, becoming elite. Your feelings and opinions on the matter (which seem to be the basis for your arguments) are totally irrelevant. Facts are mean.
http://theleaguenews.us/kentavious-caldwell-pope-showing-signs-elite-defender/
Your entire argument has no statistical backing.
Everything you say seems to be based on your own personal thoughts and feelings.
The statistical analysis disagrees with you.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:16 PM ^
"Your entire argument has no statistical backing."
As would yours it would appear my friend. The two articles you reference are largely opinion-pieces by Detroit writers extolling the virtues of a Detroit Piston player. The one piece of statistical evidence introduced, the normalized PPG of the opposition when KCP is in the game vs when he isnt doesnt take in account the players the opposition has on the court during those time frames. So if a team substitutes scorers for defenders while he's on the floor, he gets the benefit of the drop in offensive production.
NBA.com, a slightly more impartial judge, places Trey at #3 of all NBA rookies (THJ at #4 BTW) and KCP at #8 and dropping.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:58 PM ^
Just because they are Detroit sports writers has no bearing at all what-so-ever on the statistics. The statistics are what they are. They speak for themselves.
I've also provided numerous other statistical examples in this thread. It's not hard to find them in this thread.
Here is a player v. player comparison from basketball reference:
Your contention against PPP is fairly meaningless, in that it is normalized for everyone. We can also watch the games and see that KCP is always matched up against the other team's best offensive perimeter players. Just today he held Jordon Crawford (who has been lights out this year) to 4-15 shooting. Before that he shut down Joe Johnson (5-16), and before that, Damian Lillard (6-21).
Trey Burke has also been one of the worst defensive point guards by just about every statistical measure available.
Posting a "rookie ladder?" Now that is a truly meaningless piece of information. Especially one that provides quotes from the player's coach as evidence for what? I don't know. There is literally no rational provided for anything.
December 19th, 2013 at 5:55 AM ^
December 19th, 2013 at 6:48 AM ^
December 19th, 2013 at 8:32 AM ^
Seriously...Ithis is getting ridiculous. Again, I'm not a fan of the NBA at all and I'm clicked this thread because I stupidly thought it was going to be a sort of Trey Burke appreciation thread. What do I get...you and not much else.
What I find absolutely amazing is your inability to considered anyone elses views. You keep asking for statistics to back things up and when anyone does you say "those are completely meaningles statistics". It almost seems like your sticking your fingers in your ears and say "la la la I can't hear you".
Personally I don't care who is right or wrong in this debate, I just find the manner in which you debate to be obnoxious.
December 19th, 2013 at 10:27 AM ^
are not facts nor are they statistics.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:21 PM ^
Most pts in December by a rookie since 2003 LeBron James. That's elite company. Go Trey!
December 19th, 2013 at 3:39 AM ^
December 19th, 2013 at 7:13 AM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 10:51 PM ^
I really didn't know how Trey Burke would fair in the NBA as I could not objectively evaluate him. We all know he "has heart" and is "clutch" and knew his shooting would translate but was not sure he'd be able to get to the rim. I would love to see him paired up with a franchise big man to run the pick and roll with and he could take over as the closer to win games.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:54 PM ^
I saw Pope play lights out defense against Paul George the other night so ill stick with my belief that he is an elite defender. His offense might be a project for a season or two, it seems his offensive awareness is below average but hes starting to get more comfortable with his shot. Burke had a good night against a bad Orlando team so I dont know how much i can take from that. Im still taking Jennings over Burke if you ask me. Jennings is simply a better ball handler and more athletic in my opinion. Burke will never be able to shut down the elite point guards in the league like Pope has to potential to do and has shown.