Career High for Trey Tonight
Career high 30 points (12-20; 4-8 from 3) 8 assists, 7 rebounds leading the Jazz to a win over the Magic.
Timmy currently has 8 points and 3 assists in his game which is midway through the 3rd.
December 18th, 2013 at 9:48 PM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 10:11 PM ^
I logged in exclusively to give this a +1.
December 19th, 2013 at 6:19 AM ^
Who the @#$% downvoted this?
December 19th, 2013 at 7:48 AM ^
hobbes217 and spock
December 19th, 2013 at 1:32 PM ^
Spock seems like a jerk. I'm guessing he doesn't know that votes to the OP are recorded. He was also the only person to downvote BBrown's informative post about the recruiting dead period.
December 19th, 2013 at 7:53 AM ^
Trey didn't stay for junior year??? We've got our tix to see Trey in January! My son got a Jazz Burke jersey for xmas! Go Trey! And the Pistons can suck it for not taking him, regardless of what their "needs" were.
Srsly, it would behoove them to take any good Mich/MSU bball player. I think they underestimate the loyalty of the fan bases. Ticket sales would go up, IMO.
December 19th, 2013 at 8:37 AM ^
That was awesome. . . .
December 19th, 2013 at 9:43 AM ^
Maybe he could have said "I'll be back" one more time.
December 19th, 2013 at 10:17 AM ^
BTW, user Dawk Ins on youtube does these for pretty much every game.
December 18th, 2013 at 9:49 PM ^
If only he had stayed.
December 18th, 2013 at 9:57 PM ^
December 19th, 2013 at 1:22 AM ^
That is a remarkably upbeat way of looking at it. Good to see the DOOM has not got to everyone.
December 18th, 2013 at 9:53 PM ^
1/12 for 3 points.
woof.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:04 PM ^
Oladipo, your shooting...woof.
December 18th, 2013 at 9:54 PM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 9:55 PM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 9:55 PM ^
a great piston.
/shakes fist at Joe D
December 18th, 2013 at 10:03 PM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 10:16 PM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 10:46 PM ^
December 18th, 2013 at 10:28 PM ^
This was Trey Burke's first good game.
Up to this point KCP actually has a higher WS/48.
You have to keep in mind that as good as Burke can be offensively, KCP is in an entirely different class on defense. That evens the score, but nobody pays attention to the fact that KCP has been routinely destroying the other team's best perimeter player.
Also, here are their shooting splits:
KCP - 36.4%fg 31.1%3pt 78.3%ft 45.1%TS
Burke - 37.4% 33.9%3pt 89.7%ft 46.6%TS
So they've both been pretty horrendous offensively.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:36 PM ^
This was Trey's first good game you say???
Your bar for a "good game" is tremendously high
December 18th, 2013 at 10:45 PM ^
I should say really good game. If my mind serves correctly he's had a couple of other nice performances, but on the whole he hasn't been that great.
He's had quite a few nights where he scores 20 or so points but shoots horrendously from the field (like 5-19 or something).
There is a reason his shooting percentage is absolutely atrocious.
People mock Brandon Jennings for being a chucker but his shooting percentage is like 20 points higher than Burke's. Trey has also been in the bottom 5-10% of the league in defense for point guards, so he necessarily has to have a solid offensive performance just to break even.
I love Trey and hope he does well. Hes just a rookie, and he should improve a great deal.
Facts and stats may be mean, but the analytics aren't wrong.
He's gotta step his game up. This is a start.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:52 PM ^
I know I say it below, but Jennings is shooting 39.2% from the floor and is a career, yes effing career, 39.4 % shooter.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:53 PM ^
15.x per though.
December 19th, 2013 at 8:09 AM ^
Trey Burke is shooting 39.6%
Brandon Jennings is shooting 39.4%
20 points?????
December 19th, 2013 at 8:22 AM ^
People mock Brandon Jennings for being a chucker but his shooting percentage is like 20 points higher than Burke's...
Facts and stats may be mean, but the analytics aren't wrong.
You inadvertently gave me my laugh for the day.
December 19th, 2013 at 12:05 PM ^
The analytics aren't wrong, but you're only looking at one, not the whole picture. Even going into last night, Burke's oRtg of 103 was hovering around league average despite an absolutely dreadful TS%.
A short sighted person might say he's been struggling to play well, but I'd argue his first 15 games in the NBA are about as encouraging as they could be despite his shooting struggles. Does anyone really think he'd continue to shoot that poorly, is there any reason to believe he'd be that inept of a scorer in the NBA? The rest of his game has translated as well as anyone could have hoped, his turn over rate is historically low for a rookie PG (and among the best in the league amongst all PGs), he's creating off the dribble successfully, and while he's still not very good at finishing inside, he isn't have a problem getting in the paint off the dribble.
Even with the shooting struggles, Burke looks to be on track to be one of the top 3 players from this draft. No reason to be anything but excited about the way he's looked as an NBA player.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:45 PM ^
Fair, perhaps KCP's defense is underrated.
But if we could redraft now I'll still take Burke. 20ish games isn't a great enough sample yet. I still think Burke would have been the better choice there.
Also, if we're on WS/48, Josh Smith's is almost the same as Burke's. Can we fire Dumars for that instead? Josh Smith is incredibly overrated.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:50 PM ^
Yeah. Signing JSmoove was terrible, especially if they aren't trading Monroe. Josh Smith is a 4, not a 3. Putting him at the 3 highlights all of his worst flaws while minimizing what makes him such a valuable player. His ability to defend in the post as well as guard stretch 4s are his greatest assets.
It's not an accident that most of Smith's best games have come when Drummond or Monroe were in foul trouble, forcing him to play the 4.
Looking back, I'd rather have a backcourt of Jennings and KCP than Burke and Knight.
A Burke and Knight tandem might be the worst defensive backcourt in the league.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:59 PM ^
Well yeah. Knight is not good.
Still, we'll see how much better Jennings is than Burke once he gets settled in. I bet his shooting percentage ends up higher than it is now. Plus, he is on the Jazz. Put some talent around him, he may get better yet.
I understand the KCP pick if they thought they were getting Jennings. But I still can't help but wonder if they had gone with Burke what else they could have done instead of what they did.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:11 PM ^
Well, they would likely be in a lot worse shape, considering Burke missed a significant portion of the season, and has played markedly worse than Jennings to this point.
Brandon Knight was also a terrible defender at the 2 guard position and has essentially been a washout with the Bucks with injuries and poor play. The Pistons had no solid wing or guard defenders, and KCP has been absolutely destroying opposing guards.
Had Joe D drafted Burke and rolled with Knight, this season would be a disaster so far (especially with Billups and Bynum's injuries), and he would be well on his way to getting fired, rather than having a shot at the 3rd seed in the East.
December 19th, 2013 at 7:56 AM ^
At the beginning of your post is now making me your posts in Brady's voice.
December 19th, 2013 at 8:12 AM ^
Being in a worse situation would be better for Detroit. They could then be in position to take Parker or Wiggins in the draft next year and roll with Burke, Monroe/Drummond and one of those two going forward.
With a plan of signing Jennings and Smith, KCP was the right choice, but if Dumars had been thinking about the future, taking Burke and not trading for either would have been the right move.
December 19th, 2013 at 9:29 AM ^
Tanking is a sure fire way to ensure you never have a job in pro sports again.
December 19th, 2013 at 11:44 AM ^
Ummm....this is just false. Plenty of teams have taken this step, though no one would ever admit it.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:49 PM ^
how about every other offensive statistic---starting with assists and even rebounds--in totality and per minute. I know you want to continue to proffer CP as an elite defender. Since neither of us has any statistical basis to demonstrate yea or nay, that just leaves our different opinions. I'm comfortable in my assessment---and I am certain you are of yours.
And when you say that is Trey's first good game, well that's when you overplay your hand.
I am truly puzzled why you seem so intent on minimizing Trey and propping up Caldwell-Pope---you've been doing it since the NBA draft---before you saw CP play D in the NBA. Truly puzzled.
December 18th, 2013 at 10:55 PM ^
You have offered no statistical basis for any of your arguments.
You are also mistaking realism for minimalizing.
PEople on this board have been like this:
Burke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KCP
The reality thus far in terms of play have been this:
Burke < KCP
If roles were reversed, and KCP were a Michigan player who the Pistons passed on, you'd be all about him, talking about how horrible Burke's shooting percentage has been.
How the relative value of shooting guards is much higher than point guards.
How Trey missed a number of games to start the year, which would have been a death knell for a Pistons squad that is playoffs or bust.
How having burke and Knight is redundant, and Knight at shooting guard is a terrible decision.
Etc.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:10 PM ^
You, on the other hand, are just pulling numbers out of your....as I pointed out about your assertion that Jennings was shooting 20 points higher than Burke, when they are essentially the same.
Why did you decide to post on this thread at all. This was a post about Trey's great--not good--game. Now I admit that I am one of those that noted Caldwell-Pope's numbers tonight in comparison. It had an element of snark. But Caldwell-Pope played tonight and the comparison was irresistable. You, on the other hand, chose not to simply defend CP, but to belittle Burke. For no good reason. Your professed love for Trey sounds a little forced.
I hate thread arguments, and if you check my posts you will see that I rarely post more than twice on a single thread. So this will be my last comment on this one. Everybody must be bored with what the two of us have to say by now.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:21 PM ^
I've provided a number of statistics. I'm not pulling them out of my ass (I guess posting relevant information is akin to "pulling stuff out of your ass" now), I'm pulling them from basketball reference, 82games.com, and several other websites dedicated to advanced analytics and statistical objectivity.
You've provided no statistical backing for any of your arguments.
Now you've descended into nonsense land, questioning my fanhood and talking out of both sides of your mouth.
"Why did you post in this thread? It's about Trey?"
"Well, yeah, people were comparing him to KCP and bashing KCP, but well, because you were defending him that makes your comments not OK, but snarky comments in support of my self evident arguments are totally fine."
Then the coup de grace...
"whatever man, I don't even care anyway."
OK.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:44 PM ^
You cannot be serious about comparing the shooting percentage of a SHOOTING guard to a point guard and call that apples to apples. How about Burke's AST to TO ratio, which you mentioned nothing of? In the last five games, he has 36 assists to 6 turnovers. Even with all the time he missed in training camp and preseason, he is currently fourth in the league in that statistic, with it climbing drastically.
Burke's PER is 14.79, just barely under the league average 15. While it only takes into account defensive statistics like steals and blocks, KCP's PER is still only 9.32.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:16 PM ^
"If roles were reversed, and KCP were a Michigan player who the Pistons passed on, you'd be all about him, talking about how horrible Burke's shooting percentage has been."
This is definitely true (I can't be completely innocent either, Burke is still my avatar). This board is never gonna forgive Dumars for this move. Ever. Hell, a lot of people still haven't gotten over Darko.
Only thing more about this I'll say is, I think Burke and KCP need some more time before we declare a "winner" or something. I bet Burke's shooting percentage ends up higher than what it is now, and I don't think his defense is going to be as bad as metrics say either (I could be biased there). People did say Burke was gonna need some time to adjust to the NBA level. We'll see where Burke ends up at the end. I still think he's gonna be really good. But who knows. The way the Pistons are constructed, KCP is probably gonna end up being a decent pick though.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:30 PM ^
At least you're honest about it. I can definitely respect that.
I realize not everyone on the board is a Pistons fan. There are plenty of people who are going to be Michigan first no matter what.
While I certainly wish all of our former athletes the best in their professional careers, once they're no longer with Michigan my Pistons/Lions/Tigers/Wings fandom takes precedence.
I have no problem with people being like"I wish the Pistons had drafted Trey Burke because he is Trey Burke." Anyone can go back and review the NBA draft thread and see my displeasure at the Pistons no drafting Burke.
My problem is when people start trying to make actual arguments based on their homer-ism, ignoring statistical data, calling for people's heads, and dismissing all facts in the process.
If you're going to go all homer, just own it. Acknowledge it comes from that place and just let it be. Attempting to argue from that place is silly and a waste of everyone's time.
There is no way of knowing which pick will be more successful for a number of years, so I agree on that front. Also, the determination for success is different for both guys, IMO. Burke was brought in to be a frnachise point guard. KCP was brought in to be a 3 and D guy on a team that already has several franchise type players (Drummond and Monroe, namely).
December 19th, 2013 at 11:45 AM ^
Its kind of silly to talk about honesty when you're blatantly lying about shooting percentages.
Edit: If you're talking about TS%, then you are correct, however, looking at the formula, it gives Jennings a 20 point edge for basically hitting 3/4 free throws a game while Burke makes 2/2. So in this case, it seems like a fairly garbage stat.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:32 PM ^
Count me in the group that "won't ever get over Darko." Imagine the Pistons playing SA in the finals with Carmelo coming off the bench and sinking crucial shots. Dumars was brilliant in building a team that won one NBA Championship, but not taking Carmelo cost them the series against SA the next year.
Sadly, the team has gone downhill ever since.
December 18th, 2013 at 11:39 PM ^
Alternately, imagine Carmelo coming in, being extremely angry about Larry Brown refusing to give him playing time, destroying the team's chemistry, and so they never win a championship.
Or, imagine Carmelo being on the floor late in game 2 of the 2004 ECF, so Tayshaun Prince never makes that game saving black, Indiana goes up 2-0 and the Pistons never make it to the finals.
Or, imagine drafting Chris Bosh, finding out how good he was and then never making the trade for Sheed and not winning a championship.
Darko was a terrible pick, but I'll take the championship, thanks.
December 19th, 2013 at 12:29 AM ^
Like, you've been pretty on point through most of this thread, then you've gotta say the one most stupid thing ANY piston fan goes to, which is "Darko was a bad pick but I'll take the title"
As if Dumars had seen this shit, in his magical fucking crystal ball, and picked a shit player because it knew it would set them up for 1 championship through a series of incredibly specific scenarios. Fuck that, it was a shit pick and he should have taken one of Bosh or Melo. This ridiculous fucking notion that Dumars gets credit for fucking up in such an incredibly specific way that it somehow won the Piston's a title is the most asinine thing in Detroit sports.