Career high 30 points (12-20; 4-8 from 3) 8 assists, 7 rebounds leading the Jazz to a win over the Magic.
Timmy currently has 8 points and 3 assists in his game which is midway through the 3rd.
I miss Trey.
I logged in exclusively to give this a +1.
Who the @#$% downvoted this?
hobbes217 and spock
Spock seems like a jerk. I'm guessing he doesn't know that votes to the OP are recorded. He was also the only person to downvote BBrown's informative post about the recruiting dead period.
Trey didn't stay for junior year??? We've got our tix to see Trey in January! My son got a Jazz Burke jersey for xmas! Go Trey! And the Pistons can suck it for not taking him, regardless of what their "needs" were.
Srsly, it would behoove them to take any good Mich/MSU bball player. I think they underestimate the loyalty of the fan bases. Ticket sales would go up, IMO.
That was awesome. . . .
Maybe he could have said "I'll be back" one more time.
BTW, user Dawk Ins on youtube does these for pretty much every game.
I think Trey succeeding in the NBA is better in the long run then him playing for one season. Beilein has proven he can send players to the NBA and they have the tools to succeed when he thinks there ready. This is a big help in recruiting for Michigan. If McGary and Robinson even Stauskas shine in the NBA it will make recruiting much easier
That is a remarkably upbeat way of looking at it. Good to see the DOOM has not got to everyone.
1/12 for 3 points.
Oladipo, your shooting...woof.
Stop teasing us with his abilities
He clearly made the right choice! What an amazing player there was nothing more college could do for him. The NBA was never of interest to me but hopefully with more Michigan players ill have some interest.
a great piston.
/shakes fist at Joe D
is playing really gr....yeah, couldn't say it with a straight face.
If you seriously haven't been watching KCP has been playing really good. Jennings was sensational tonight also.
high expectations for a top 10 pick, even in a draft where Bennet goes first overall. And with Stuckey playing like he has, I tend to overlook KCP. Unfairly so, I admit.
This was Trey Burke's first good game.
Up to this point KCP actually has a higher WS/48.
You have to keep in mind that as good as Burke can be offensively, KCP is in an entirely different class on defense. That evens the score, but nobody pays attention to the fact that KCP has been routinely destroying the other team's best perimeter player.
Also, here are their shooting splits:
KCP - 36.4%fg 31.1%3pt 78.3%ft 45.1%TS
Burke - 37.4% 33.9%3pt 89.7%ft 46.6%TS
So they've both been pretty horrendous offensively.
This was Trey's first good game you say???
Your bar for a "good game" is tremendously high
I should say really good game. If my mind serves correctly he's had a couple of other nice performances, but on the whole he hasn't been that great.
He's had quite a few nights where he scores 20 or so points but shoots horrendously from the field (like 5-19 or something).
There is a reason his shooting percentage is absolutely atrocious.
People mock Brandon Jennings for being a chucker but his shooting percentage is like 20 points higher than Burke's. Trey has also been in the bottom 5-10% of the league in defense for point guards, so he necessarily has to have a solid offensive performance just to break even.
I love Trey and hope he does well. Hes just a rookie, and he should improve a great deal.
Facts and stats may be mean, but the analytics aren't wrong.
He's gotta step his game up. This is a start.
I know I say it below, but Jennings is shooting 39.2% from the floor and is a career, yes effing career, 39.4 % shooter.
15.x per though.
Trey Burke is shooting 39.6%
Brandon Jennings is shooting 39.4%
People mock Brandon Jennings for being a chucker but his shooting percentage is like 20 points higher than Burke's...
Facts and stats may be mean, but the analytics aren't wrong.
You inadvertently gave me my laugh for the day.
The analytics aren't wrong, but you're only looking at one, not the whole picture. Even going into last night, Burke's oRtg of 103 was hovering around league average despite an absolutely dreadful TS%.
A short sighted person might say he's been struggling to play well, but I'd argue his first 15 games in the NBA are about as encouraging as they could be despite his shooting struggles. Does anyone really think he'd continue to shoot that poorly, is there any reason to believe he'd be that inept of a scorer in the NBA? The rest of his game has translated as well as anyone could have hoped, his turn over rate is historically low for a rookie PG (and among the best in the league amongst all PGs), he's creating off the dribble successfully, and while he's still not very good at finishing inside, he isn't have a problem getting in the paint off the dribble.
Even with the shooting struggles, Burke looks to be on track to be one of the top 3 players from this draft. No reason to be anything but excited about the way he's looked as an NBA player.
Fair, perhaps KCP's defense is underrated.
But if we could redraft now I'll still take Burke. 20ish games isn't a great enough sample yet. I still think Burke would have been the better choice there.
Also, if we're on WS/48, Josh Smith's is almost the same as Burke's. Can we fire Dumars for that instead? Josh Smith is incredibly overrated.
Yeah. Signing JSmoove was terrible, especially if they aren't trading Monroe. Josh Smith is a 4, not a 3. Putting him at the 3 highlights all of his worst flaws while minimizing what makes him such a valuable player. His ability to defend in the post as well as guard stretch 4s are his greatest assets.
It's not an accident that most of Smith's best games have come when Drummond or Monroe were in foul trouble, forcing him to play the 4.
Looking back, I'd rather have a backcourt of Jennings and KCP than Burke and Knight.
A Burke and Knight tandem might be the worst defensive backcourt in the league.
Well yeah. Knight is not good.
Still, we'll see how much better Jennings is than Burke once he gets settled in. I bet his shooting percentage ends up higher than it is now. Plus, he is on the Jazz. Put some talent around him, he may get better yet.
I understand the KCP pick if they thought they were getting Jennings. But I still can't help but wonder if they had gone with Burke what else they could have done instead of what they did.
Well, they would likely be in a lot worse shape, considering Burke missed a significant portion of the season, and has played markedly worse than Jennings to this point.
Brandon Knight was also a terrible defender at the 2 guard position and has essentially been a washout with the Bucks with injuries and poor play. The Pistons had no solid wing or guard defenders, and KCP has been absolutely destroying opposing guards.
Had Joe D drafted Burke and rolled with Knight, this season would be a disaster so far (especially with Billups and Bynum's injuries), and he would be well on his way to getting fired, rather than having a shot at the 3rd seed in the East.
At the beginning of your post is now making me your posts in Brady's voice.
Being in a worse situation would be better for Detroit. They could then be in position to take Parker or Wiggins in the draft next year and roll with Burke, Monroe/Drummond and one of those two going forward.
With a plan of signing Jennings and Smith, KCP was the right choice, but if Dumars had been thinking about the future, taking Burke and not trading for either would have been the right move.
Tanking is a sure fire way to ensure you never have a job in pro sports again.
Ummm....this is just false. Plenty of teams have taken this step, though no one would ever admit it.
how about every other offensive statistic---starting with assists and even rebounds--in totality and per minute. I know you want to continue to proffer CP as an elite defender. Since neither of us has any statistical basis to demonstrate yea or nay, that just leaves our different opinions. I'm comfortable in my assessment---and I am certain you are of yours.
And when you say that is Trey's first good game, well that's when you overplay your hand.
I am truly puzzled why you seem so intent on minimizing Trey and propping up Caldwell-Pope---you've been doing it since the NBA draft---before you saw CP play D in the NBA. Truly puzzled.
You have offered no statistical basis for any of your arguments.
You are also mistaking realism for minimalizing.
PEople on this board have been like this:
Burke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KCP
The reality thus far in terms of play have been this:
Burke < KCP
If roles were reversed, and KCP were a Michigan player who the Pistons passed on, you'd be all about him, talking about how horrible Burke's shooting percentage has been.
How the relative value of shooting guards is much higher than point guards.
How Trey missed a number of games to start the year, which would have been a death knell for a Pistons squad that is playoffs or bust.
How having burke and Knight is redundant, and Knight at shooting guard is a terrible decision.
You, on the other hand, are just pulling numbers out of your....as I pointed out about your assertion that Jennings was shooting 20 points higher than Burke, when they are essentially the same.
Why did you decide to post on this thread at all. This was a post about Trey's great--not good--game. Now I admit that I am one of those that noted Caldwell-Pope's numbers tonight in comparison. It had an element of snark. But Caldwell-Pope played tonight and the comparison was irresistable. You, on the other hand, chose not to simply defend CP, but to belittle Burke. For no good reason. Your professed love for Trey sounds a little forced.
I hate thread arguments, and if you check my posts you will see that I rarely post more than twice on a single thread. So this will be my last comment on this one. Everybody must be bored with what the two of us have to say by now.
I've provided a number of statistics. I'm not pulling them out of my ass (I guess posting relevant information is akin to "pulling stuff out of your ass" now), I'm pulling them from basketball reference, 82games.com, and several other websites dedicated to advanced analytics and statistical objectivity.
You've provided no statistical backing for any of your arguments.
Now you've descended into nonsense land, questioning my fanhood and talking out of both sides of your mouth.
"Why did you post in this thread? It's about Trey?"
"Well, yeah, people were comparing him to KCP and bashing KCP, but well, because you were defending him that makes your comments not OK, but snarky comments in support of my self evident arguments are totally fine."
Then the coup de grace...
"whatever man, I don't even care anyway."
"If roles were reversed, and KCP were a Michigan player who the Pistons passed on, you'd be all about him, talking about how horrible Burke's shooting percentage has been."
This is definitely true (I can't be completely innocent either, Burke is still my avatar). This board is never gonna forgive Dumars for this move. Ever. Hell, a lot of people still haven't gotten over Darko.
Only thing more about this I'll say is, I think Burke and KCP need some more time before we declare a "winner" or something. I bet Burke's shooting percentage ends up higher than what it is now, and I don't think his defense is going to be as bad as metrics say either (I could be biased there). People did say Burke was gonna need some time to adjust to the NBA level. We'll see where Burke ends up at the end. I still think he's gonna be really good. But who knows. The way the Pistons are constructed, KCP is probably gonna end up being a decent pick though.
At least you're honest about it. I can definitely respect that.
I realize not everyone on the board is a Pistons fan. There are plenty of people who are going to be Michigan first no matter what.
While I certainly wish all of our former athletes the best in their professional careers, once they're no longer with Michigan my Pistons/Lions/Tigers/Wings fandom takes precedence.
I have no problem with people being like"I wish the Pistons had drafted Trey Burke because he is Trey Burke." Anyone can go back and review the NBA draft thread and see my displeasure at the Pistons no drafting Burke.
My problem is when people start trying to make actual arguments based on their homer-ism, ignoring statistical data, calling for people's heads, and dismissing all facts in the process.
If you're going to go all homer, just own it. Acknowledge it comes from that place and just let it be. Attempting to argue from that place is silly and a waste of everyone's time.
There is no way of knowing which pick will be more successful for a number of years, so I agree on that front. Also, the determination for success is different for both guys, IMO. Burke was brought in to be a frnachise point guard. KCP was brought in to be a 3 and D guy on a team that already has several franchise type players (Drummond and Monroe, namely).
Its kind of silly to talk about honesty when you're blatantly lying about shooting percentages.
Edit: If you're talking about TS%, then you are correct, however, looking at the formula, it gives Jennings a 20 point edge for basically hitting 3/4 free throws a game while Burke makes 2/2. So in this case, it seems like a fairly garbage stat.
Count me in the group that "won't ever get over Darko." Imagine the Pistons playing SA in the finals with Carmelo coming off the bench and sinking crucial shots. Dumars was brilliant in building a team that won one NBA Championship, but not taking Carmelo cost them the series against SA the next year.
Sadly, the team has gone downhill ever since.
Alternately, imagine Carmelo coming in, being extremely angry about Larry Brown refusing to give him playing time, destroying the team's chemistry, and so they never win a championship.
Or, imagine Carmelo being on the floor late in game 2 of the 2004 ECF, so Tayshaun Prince never makes that game saving black, Indiana goes up 2-0 and the Pistons never make it to the finals.
Or, imagine drafting Chris Bosh, finding out how good he was and then never making the trade for Sheed and not winning a championship.
Darko was a terrible pick, but I'll take the championship, thanks.
Like, you've been pretty on point through most of this thread, then you've gotta say the one most stupid thing ANY piston fan goes to, which is "Darko was a bad pick but I'll take the title"
As if Dumars had seen this shit, in his magical fucking crystal ball, and picked a shit player because it knew it would set them up for 1 championship through a series of incredibly specific scenarios. Fuck that, it was a shit pick and he should have taken one of Bosh or Melo. This ridiculous fucking notion that Dumars gets credit for fucking up in such an incredibly specific way that it somehow won the Piston's a title is the most asinine thing in Detroit sports.
I don't have a dog in this fight but as someone who has read this thread I have to comment on what I see going on here.
The way I understand it you are suggesting the only way someone can think Trey Burke is Better than this CP guy is if they are homers. You then go on to talk about how your fandom changes over once people leave college and your teams take precendence. There's nothing wrong with that at all,
You then seem to ignore the fact that your love for this CP guy could just as easily be characterized as homerism because he plays for your team while Trey Burke plays for the Jazz.
What really does it for me is this post where you make excuses for your GM by bringing up the fact that a title was won when he clearly (and I mean CLEARLY) made a ridiculous draft pick. You cite a championship as a reason not to be mad and insinuate that if a better player were drafted that championship wouldn't have happened. That's ludicrous. How do you know that they wouldn't have 3 championships + that one had they drafted Bosh or CA?
Again, I don't follow the NBA enough to care which of you are right, but pointing out someone else's homerism and using that to discredit their opinion while clearly ignoring your own is a little too much for me to watch without commenting.
Dude you just need to stop. First, there is nothing to say the Pistons still dont win in 2004 with another draft pick. Secondly, what about the 2005 finals and the 3 straight ECF's after 2004? Don't you think Carmelo or Bosh or Wade or hell, even Chris Kaman, would have given them a better shot of winning a Championship after 2004? And, even if they don't trade for Sheed (not a guarantee) then they probably don't let Memo walk. They could have won multiple championships if they take any of those guys over Darko.
So maybe instead of falling all over yourself trying to defend Joe D. you actually look at things objectively. And for the record, the guy I wanted Joe D to draft was Michael Carter Williams.