Career high 30 points (12-20; 4-8 from 3) 8 assists, 7 rebounds leading the Jazz to a win over the Magic.
Timmy currently has 8 points and 3 assists in his game which is midway through the 3rd.
I miss Trey.
I logged in exclusively to give this a +1.
Who the @#$% downvoted this?
hobbes217 and spock
Spock seems like a jerk. I'm guessing he doesn't know that votes to the OP are recorded. He was also the only person to downvote BBrown's informative post about the recruiting dead period.
Trey didn't stay for junior year??? We've got our tix to see Trey in January! My son got a Jazz Burke jersey for xmas! Go Trey! And the Pistons can suck it for not taking him, regardless of what their "needs" were.
Srsly, it would behoove them to take any good Mich/MSU bball player. I think they underestimate the loyalty of the fan bases. Ticket sales would go up, IMO.
That was awesome. . . .
Maybe he could have said "I'll be back" one more time.
BTW, user Dawk Ins on youtube does these for pretty much every game.
I think Trey succeeding in the NBA is better in the long run then him playing for one season. Beilein has proven he can send players to the NBA and they have the tools to succeed when he thinks there ready. This is a big help in recruiting for Michigan. If McGary and Robinson even Stauskas shine in the NBA it will make recruiting much easier
That is a remarkably upbeat way of looking at it. Good to see the DOOM has not got to everyone.
1/12 for 3 points.
Oladipo, your shooting...woof.
Stop teasing us with his abilities
He clearly made the right choice! What an amazing player there was nothing more college could do for him. The NBA was never of interest to me but hopefully with more Michigan players ill have some interest.
a great piston.
/shakes fist at Joe D
is playing really gr....yeah, couldn't say it with a straight face.
If you seriously haven't been watching KCP has been playing really good. Jennings was sensational tonight also.
high expectations for a top 10 pick, even in a draft where Bennet goes first overall. And with Stuckey playing like he has, I tend to overlook KCP. Unfairly so, I admit.
This was Trey Burke's first good game.
Up to this point KCP actually has a higher WS/48.
You have to keep in mind that as good as Burke can be offensively, KCP is in an entirely different class on defense. That evens the score, but nobody pays attention to the fact that KCP has been routinely destroying the other team's best perimeter player.
Also, here are their shooting splits:
KCP - 36.4%fg 31.1%3pt 78.3%ft 45.1%TS
Burke - 37.4% 33.9%3pt 89.7%ft 46.6%TS
So they've both been pretty horrendous offensively.
This was Trey's first good game you say???
Your bar for a "good game" is tremendously high
I should say really good game. If my mind serves correctly he's had a couple of other nice performances, but on the whole he hasn't been that great.
He's had quite a few nights where he scores 20 or so points but shoots horrendously from the field (like 5-19 or something).
There is a reason his shooting percentage is absolutely atrocious.
People mock Brandon Jennings for being a chucker but his shooting percentage is like 20 points higher than Burke's. Trey has also been in the bottom 5-10% of the league in defense for point guards, so he necessarily has to have a solid offensive performance just to break even.
I love Trey and hope he does well. Hes just a rookie, and he should improve a great deal.
Facts and stats may be mean, but the analytics aren't wrong.
He's gotta step his game up. This is a start.
I know I say it below, but Jennings is shooting 39.2% from the floor and is a career, yes effing career, 39.4 % shooter.
15.x per though.
Trey Burke is shooting 39.6%
Brandon Jennings is shooting 39.4%
People mock Brandon Jennings for being a chucker but his shooting percentage is like 20 points higher than Burke's...
Facts and stats may be mean, but the analytics aren't wrong.
You inadvertently gave me my laugh for the day.
The analytics aren't wrong, but you're only looking at one, not the whole picture. Even going into last night, Burke's oRtg of 103 was hovering around league average despite an absolutely dreadful TS%.
A short sighted person might say he's been struggling to play well, but I'd argue his first 15 games in the NBA are about as encouraging as they could be despite his shooting struggles. Does anyone really think he'd continue to shoot that poorly, is there any reason to believe he'd be that inept of a scorer in the NBA? The rest of his game has translated as well as anyone could have hoped, his turn over rate is historically low for a rookie PG (and among the best in the league amongst all PGs), he's creating off the dribble successfully, and while he's still not very good at finishing inside, he isn't have a problem getting in the paint off the dribble.
Even with the shooting struggles, Burke looks to be on track to be one of the top 3 players from this draft. No reason to be anything but excited about the way he's looked as an NBA player.
Fair, perhaps KCP's defense is underrated.
But if we could redraft now I'll still take Burke. 20ish games isn't a great enough sample yet. I still think Burke would have been the better choice there.
Also, if we're on WS/48, Josh Smith's is almost the same as Burke's. Can we fire Dumars for that instead? Josh Smith is incredibly overrated.
Yeah. Signing JSmoove was terrible, especially if they aren't trading Monroe. Josh Smith is a 4, not a 3. Putting him at the 3 highlights all of his worst flaws while minimizing what makes him such a valuable player. His ability to defend in the post as well as guard stretch 4s are his greatest assets.
It's not an accident that most of Smith's best games have come when Drummond or Monroe were in foul trouble, forcing him to play the 4.
Looking back, I'd rather have a backcourt of Jennings and KCP than Burke and Knight.
A Burke and Knight tandem might be the worst defensive backcourt in the league.
Well yeah. Knight is not good.
Still, we'll see how much better Jennings is than Burke once he gets settled in. I bet his shooting percentage ends up higher than it is now. Plus, he is on the Jazz. Put some talent around him, he may get better yet.
I understand the KCP pick if they thought they were getting Jennings. But I still can't help but wonder if they had gone with Burke what else they could have done instead of what they did.
Well, they would likely be in a lot worse shape, considering Burke missed a significant portion of the season, and has played markedly worse than Jennings to this point.
Brandon Knight was also a terrible defender at the 2 guard position and has essentially been a washout with the Bucks with injuries and poor play. The Pistons had no solid wing or guard defenders, and KCP has been absolutely destroying opposing guards.
Had Joe D drafted Burke and rolled with Knight, this season would be a disaster so far (especially with Billups and Bynum's injuries), and he would be well on his way to getting fired, rather than having a shot at the 3rd seed in the East.
At the beginning of your post is now making me your posts in Brady's voice.
Being in a worse situation would be better for Detroit. They could then be in position to take Parker or Wiggins in the draft next year and roll with Burke, Monroe/Drummond and one of those two going forward.
With a plan of signing Jennings and Smith, KCP was the right choice, but if Dumars had been thinking about the future, taking Burke and not trading for either would have been the right move.
Tanking is a sure fire way to ensure you never have a job in pro sports again.
Ummm....this is just false. Plenty of teams have taken this step, though no one would ever admit it.
how about every other offensive statistic---starting with assists and even rebounds--in totality and per minute. I know you want to continue to proffer CP as an elite defender. Since neither of us has any statistical basis to demonstrate yea or nay, that just leaves our different opinions. I'm comfortable in my assessment---and I am certain you are of yours.
And when you say that is Trey's first good game, well that's when you overplay your hand.
I am truly puzzled why you seem so intent on minimizing Trey and propping up Caldwell-Pope---you've been doing it since the NBA draft---before you saw CP play D in the NBA. Truly puzzled.
You have offered no statistical basis for any of your arguments.
You are also mistaking realism for minimalizing.
PEople on this board have been like this:
Burke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KCP
The reality thus far in terms of play have been this:
Burke < KCP
If roles were reversed, and KCP were a Michigan player who the Pistons passed on, you'd be all about him, talking about how horrible Burke's shooting percentage has been.
How the relative value of shooting guards is much higher than point guards.
How Trey missed a number of games to start the year, which would have been a death knell for a Pistons squad that is playoffs or bust.
How having burke and Knight is redundant, and Knight at shooting guard is a terrible decision.
You, on the other hand, are just pulling numbers out of your....as I pointed out about your assertion that Jennings was shooting 20 points higher than Burke, when they are essentially the same.
Why did you decide to post on this thread at all. This was a post about Trey's great--not good--game. Now I admit that I am one of those that noted Caldwell-Pope's numbers tonight in comparison. It had an element of snark. But Caldwell-Pope played tonight and the comparison was irresistable. You, on the other hand, chose not to simply defend CP, but to belittle Burke. For no good reason. Your professed love for Trey sounds a little forced.
I hate thread arguments, and if you check my posts you will see that I rarely post more than twice on a single thread. So this will be my last comment on this one. Everybody must be bored with what the two of us have to say by now.
I've provided a number of statistics. I'm not pulling them out of my ass (I guess posting relevant information is akin to "pulling stuff out of your ass" now), I'm pulling them from basketball reference, 82games.com, and several other websites dedicated to advanced analytics and statistical objectivity.
You've provided no statistical backing for any of your arguments.
Now you've descended into nonsense land, questioning my fanhood and talking out of both sides of your mouth.
"Why did you post in this thread? It's about Trey?"
"Well, yeah, people were comparing him to KCP and bashing KCP, but well, because you were defending him that makes your comments not OK, but snarky comments in support of my self evident arguments are totally fine."
Then the coup de grace...
"whatever man, I don't even care anyway."
"If roles were reversed, and KCP were a Michigan player who the Pistons passed on, you'd be all about him, talking about how horrible Burke's shooting percentage has been."
This is definitely true (I can't be completely innocent either, Burke is still my avatar). This board is never gonna forgive Dumars for this move. Ever. Hell, a lot of people still haven't gotten over Darko.
Only thing more about this I'll say is, I think Burke and KCP need some more time before we declare a "winner" or something. I bet Burke's shooting percentage ends up higher than what it is now, and I don't think his defense is going to be as bad as metrics say either (I could be biased there). People did say Burke was gonna need some time to adjust to the NBA level. We'll see where Burke ends up at the end. I still think he's gonna be really good. But who knows. The way the Pistons are constructed, KCP is probably gonna end up being a decent pick though.
At least you're honest about it. I can definitely respect that.
I realize not everyone on the board is a Pistons fan. There are plenty of people who are going to be Michigan first no matter what.
While I certainly wish all of our former athletes the best in their professional careers, once they're no longer with Michigan my Pistons/Lions/Tigers/Wings fandom takes precedence.
I have no problem with people being like"I wish the Pistons had drafted Trey Burke because he is Trey Burke." Anyone can go back and review the NBA draft thread and see my displeasure at the Pistons no drafting Burke.
My problem is when people start trying to make actual arguments based on their homer-ism, ignoring statistical data, calling for people's heads, and dismissing all facts in the process.
If you're going to go all homer, just own it. Acknowledge it comes from that place and just let it be. Attempting to argue from that place is silly and a waste of everyone's time.
There is no way of knowing which pick will be more successful for a number of years, so I agree on that front. Also, the determination for success is different for both guys, IMO. Burke was brought in to be a frnachise point guard. KCP was brought in to be a 3 and D guy on a team that already has several franchise type players (Drummond and Monroe, namely).
Its kind of silly to talk about honesty when you're blatantly lying about shooting percentages.
Edit: If you're talking about TS%, then you are correct, however, looking at the formula, it gives Jennings a 20 point edge for basically hitting 3/4 free throws a game while Burke makes 2/2. So in this case, it seems like a fairly garbage stat.
Count me in the group that "won't ever get over Darko." Imagine the Pistons playing SA in the finals with Carmelo coming off the bench and sinking crucial shots. Dumars was brilliant in building a team that won one NBA Championship, but not taking Carmelo cost them the series against SA the next year.
Sadly, the team has gone downhill ever since.
Alternately, imagine Carmelo coming in, being extremely angry about Larry Brown refusing to give him playing time, destroying the team's chemistry, and so they never win a championship.
Or, imagine Carmelo being on the floor late in game 2 of the 2004 ECF, so Tayshaun Prince never makes that game saving black, Indiana goes up 2-0 and the Pistons never make it to the finals.
Or, imagine drafting Chris Bosh, finding out how good he was and then never making the trade for Sheed and not winning a championship.
Darko was a terrible pick, but I'll take the championship, thanks.
Like, you've been pretty on point through most of this thread, then you've gotta say the one most stupid thing ANY piston fan goes to, which is "Darko was a bad pick but I'll take the title"
As if Dumars had seen this shit, in his magical fucking crystal ball, and picked a shit player because it knew it would set them up for 1 championship through a series of incredibly specific scenarios. Fuck that, it was a shit pick and he should have taken one of Bosh or Melo. This ridiculous fucking notion that Dumars gets credit for fucking up in such an incredibly specific way that it somehow won the Piston's a title is the most asinine thing in Detroit sports.
I don't have a dog in this fight but as someone who has read this thread I have to comment on what I see going on here.
The way I understand it you are suggesting the only way someone can think Trey Burke is Better than this CP guy is if they are homers. You then go on to talk about how your fandom changes over once people leave college and your teams take precendence. There's nothing wrong with that at all,
You then seem to ignore the fact that your love for this CP guy could just as easily be characterized as homerism because he plays for your team while Trey Burke plays for the Jazz.
What really does it for me is this post where you make excuses for your GM by bringing up the fact that a title was won when he clearly (and I mean CLEARLY) made a ridiculous draft pick. You cite a championship as a reason not to be mad and insinuate that if a better player were drafted that championship wouldn't have happened. That's ludicrous. How do you know that they wouldn't have 3 championships + that one had they drafted Bosh or CA?
Again, I don't follow the NBA enough to care which of you are right, but pointing out someone else's homerism and using that to discredit their opinion while clearly ignoring your own is a little too much for me to watch without commenting.
Dude you just need to stop. First, there is nothing to say the Pistons still dont win in 2004 with another draft pick. Secondly, what about the 2005 finals and the 3 straight ECF's after 2004? Don't you think Carmelo or Bosh or Wade or hell, even Chris Kaman, would have given them a better shot of winning a Championship after 2004? And, even if they don't trade for Sheed (not a guarantee) then they probably don't let Memo walk. They could have won multiple championships if they take any of those guys over Darko.
So maybe instead of falling all over yourself trying to defend Joe D. you actually look at things objectively. And for the record, the guy I wanted Joe D to draft was Michael Carter Williams.
the pistons have been irrelivent for 5 years but they couldnt have survived trey missing a handful of games? what planet are you living on?
the burke pick is, was, and will always be unpopular.
i dont know what knight has to do with this, since he was traded anyway.
umumum is right, you are truly puzzling.
What does the Pistons being irrelecant for 5 years have to do with anything?
Drafting Burke would make them relevant in the same way signing Chauncey Billups made them relevant. That is to say, not at all relevant.
You know what makes you relevant? Winning.
I forgot that NBA games were decided based on popularity rather than the actual games being played. Must have missed that memo.
Speaking of relevancy, do you have anything relevant to say, or are you going to continue with these weird rants about nothing?
you keep bring up trey's injury like he's greg oden. he missed 8 games. he was healthy his entire michigan career. its a non factor in a year where the pistons are conetending for nothing.
you getting so emotional over people defending a michigan folk hero makes me think you are posting on the wrong board.
I'm doing no such thing. That's you making shit up about what I've posted because of your irrational anger towards me.
It's easy to make someone look bad when you characterize them saying, "He's missed a significant portion of the season thus far (33%)," as equivalent to, "OMG! HE'S GREG FUCKING ODEN!"
The Pistons are contending for a lot of things. Namely, Joe Dumars' job. I can see how if you hate Joe D, you would want the Pistons to tank, and him to be fired, but then you're a terrible fan, IMO, and you're an incredibly ignorant fan, because the Pistons don't even have a draft pick in 2014.
The Pistons are playing to build something. Making the playoffs is a start.
The only person getting emotional here is you, as evidenced by your posts. They are completely devoid of any sort of cogent thought or actual evidence. It's just anger over Trey Burke not being drafted by the Pistons, and all of your arguments stem from that place of anger.
Pistons pick is top 8 protected, if they were to tank they would almost surely have gotten that pick.
Maybe try and get the facts straight before you call people ignorant.
Joe D. had to give the pick away just to get someone to take away one of his numerous humiliating failures in Ben Gordon. Joe D. is a joke and frankly I have no time for the Pistons anymore until he is gone.
brandon jennings ts% .493
trey burke ts% .466
Both are inefficient. Jennings isn't playing great by any stretch of the imagination. His bulk stats might be decent, but that's not how basketball is evaluated these days. Sorry. He's also the worst PnR defender in the league.
It's almost like you didn't read anything I posted.
I read the 20 points higher thing and thought you were implying Jennings is much more efficient. He's not, and this season isn't varying from his career averages. In a thread where you're citing adjusted +/- and WS/48, you might not want to use hyperbole to accentuate your points.
"I read the 20 points higher thing and thought you were implying Jennings is much more efficient"
...an then you posted stats showing he's MORE than 20 points higher in TS%.
You mean 3 points higher?
Even if that where true and you might have a point. A portion of a good GM's job is to get the fan base excited for the next season. Trey Burke could have gotten Pistons fans excited and gave them something to cheer for.
Arguing that KCP has been better than Burke is....questionable to say the least. I guess you can talk up his defensive impact, but the Pistons have the 20th best defense in the league, despite a whole host of defensive talent in Smith/Drummond, so just how big of an impact is he having? I agree, the eye test says he's a good defender, and I expect him to continue to be one, but you're greatly overestimating the impact he's had on that side of the court. If you replace KCP with a replacement level player, how many fewer games have the Pistons won at this point? Look at the record of the Jazz with and without Burke, pretty easy to see the type of impact he's had.
You also referenced WS/48 earlier, which with such a small sample size of minutes borders on irrelevent, as shown by the fact that Burke shot significantly past KCP in that metric after last night's game.
Argue that KCP made sense with the Jennings/Smith plan (which was a shitty plan to begin with, but oh well), sure, but to argue that KCP has been the more productive player to this point is a joke.
I don't know if you saw but Jennings made a clutch 3 tonight to give us the win. We didn't need a PG, Dumars knew what he was doing.
Yeah. It had been in the works though.
It's doubtful they get as much for Knight if they draft Burke also. At that point they'd have been waiving the white flag on his career.
That's definitely something people failed to take into consideration then, and in hindisight.
I love Burke as much as the next guy but I don't get the infatuation with him going to the Pistons. He's not some local kid and we passed up on his homecoming. He has Columbus tattooed on his arm.
I know. I'm in the same boat. Simply pointing out that KCP was a good choice, given Burke's injury, as well as the fact that his shooting splits have been about the same as KCP, KCP has actually been a better player thus far taking into consideration his defensive.
Not to mention his relative value as a shooting guard compared to a point guard.
Feelings > Facts
as to why pistons fans who are also michigan fans--on a michigan website-- would want a michigan player to play for the pistons. the fact that he has columbus written on his body means absolutely nothing. i would have loooooooved for woodson to play for the lions (yeah he would have to play for the sucklions, but it wouldn't have been much worse than playing for raiders), and the fact that he is from ohio is meaningless.
i do think that people let this get in the way of rationally looking at the situation though.
Oh, so we shouldn't be attached to Michigan players who were born outside the state? Pretty silly.
but apt comparison---Caldwell-Pope 9-1-0 (but his D was undoubtedly ...)
There must be hundreds of "would have been a great piston" posts on the site and I will still start upvoting every one of them. I believe you will only be shaking your fist at joe for 3-4 more months.
I miss more the fact that the stupid Pistons passed up on him, Pope is good, but Trey is the next Chris Paul, ugh!
Joe Dumars. Come on man.
should have been a Piston
Fucked around and almost got a triple double.
I think its safe to assume it was a good day for him
He probably didn't even need to use his AK.
Trey belongs in the NBA and will have a long and productive career - he has earned it!
As others have said Jennings is starting to gel and I would take him over Burke. Popes defense has been elite and his hustle is without question. I think Joe D made the right choice. Pistons are fun to watch again and have A LOT of potential.
Caldwell-Pope's D is not elite. His D is solid for a 1st year player. It reminds me of the fallacy last year that Levert's D was elite. It wasn't and still isn't---and I like him as a player overall. CP was supposed to be that outside shooter at the 2 that we needed. He contributes very little offensively to date---in totality and per minute--nothing close to Burke. I appreciate that he has limited opportunities on offense since Smith and Jennings dominate the ball.
That gets to my second point---the love for Jennings and the perception that he is markedly better than Burke. The Bucks were not crying crocodile tears when they traded him to the Pistons. He likes to have the ball in his hands---like all the time. He is shooting under 40% this year as well as on his career. He turns the ball over 3.4 times per game---and has a 2.3-1 career assist/turnover ratio. Trey is also shooting under 40%, but I'll bet the proverbial farm that he ends up over 40% by the end of the year---and higher than Jennings. Trey's assist/tounover ratio is 3.7-1. And Trey has helped take the Jazz from arguably the worst team in the NBA to a (somewhat) competitive one. I'd further argue that Trey ain't that far behind Jennings right now and it won't be long before he is simply better.
Now I'm not a Dumars basher and my argument here solely relates to the decision to pass on Trey and not the Pistons historical trades. But this suggestion that the only options were Trey and no 2-guard or Caldwell-Pope and Jennings is a specious one. Jennings cost the Pistons $28 million over 3 years. The Pistons could have and should have spent that money on a proven shooting guard---who could defend. Then it would have been an apt comparison---Trey and the $28 million man.
Very, very well articulated. I could not agree more nor can I upvote more.
Here are a couple of brief articles outlining KCP's defense, and how it is in fact, becoming elite. Your feelings and opinions on the matter (which seem to be the basis for your arguments) are totally irrelevant. Facts are mean.
Your entire argument has no statistical backing.
Everything you say seems to be based on your own personal thoughts and feelings.
The statistical analysis disagrees with you.
"Your entire argument has no statistical backing."
As would yours it would appear my friend. The two articles you reference are largely opinion-pieces by Detroit writers extolling the virtues of a Detroit Piston player. The one piece of statistical evidence introduced, the normalized PPG of the opposition when KCP is in the game vs when he isnt doesnt take in account the players the opposition has on the court during those time frames. So if a team substitutes scorers for defenders while he's on the floor, he gets the benefit of the drop in offensive production.
NBA.com, a slightly more impartial judge, places Trey at #3 of all NBA rookies (THJ at #4 BTW) and KCP at #8 and dropping.
Just because they are Detroit sports writers has no bearing at all what-so-ever on the statistics. The statistics are what they are. They speak for themselves.
I've also provided numerous other statistical examples in this thread. It's not hard to find them in this thread.
Here is a player v. player comparison from basketball reference:
Your contention against PPP is fairly meaningless, in that it is normalized for everyone. We can also watch the games and see that KCP is always matched up against the other team's best offensive perimeter players. Just today he held Jordon Crawford (who has been lights out this year) to 4-15 shooting. Before that he shut down Joe Johnson (5-16), and before that, Damian Lillard (6-21).
Trey Burke has also been one of the worst defensive point guards by just about every statistical measure available.
Posting a "rookie ladder?" Now that is a truly meaningless piece of information. Especially one that provides quotes from the player's coach as evidence for what? I don't know. There is literally no rational provided for anything.
Might want to recheck that player comparison now. KCP has Burke beat in D rating and that's it. After tonights game Burke's WS/48 humped past KCP's. You might also want to check how he calculates win shares and WS/48. They're counting stats ie. playing in less games is going to hurt Burke's numbers in both. Yes, WS/48 as well.
On my phone so can't edit. Everyone just ignore that last sentence. I typed that stupidity at about 0500 after being at work for 10 hours.
Seriously...Ithis is getting ridiculous. Again, I'm not a fan of the NBA at all and I'm clicked this thread because I stupidly thought it was going to be a sort of Trey Burke appreciation thread. What do I get...you and not much else.
What I find absolutely amazing is your inability to considered anyone elses views. You keep asking for statistics to back things up and when anyone does you say "those are completely meaningles statistics". It almost seems like your sticking your fingers in your ears and say "la la la I can't hear you".
Personally I don't care who is right or wrong in this debate, I just find the manner in which you debate to be obnoxious.
are not facts nor are they statistics.
Most pts in December by a rookie since 2003 LeBron James. That's elite company. Go Trey!
Also on a crappy teams where he has to score.
that most names on that list were on crappy teams.
I really didn't know how Trey Burke would fair in the NBA as I could not objectively evaluate him. We all know he "has heart" and is "clutch" and knew his shooting would translate but was not sure he'd be able to get to the rim. I would love to see him paired up with a franchise big man to run the pick and roll with and he could take over as the closer to win games.
I saw Pope play lights out defense against Paul George the other night so ill stick with my belief that he is an elite defender. His offense might be a project for a season or two, it seems his offensive awareness is below average but hes starting to get more comfortable with his shot. Burke had a good night against a bad Orlando team so I dont know how much i can take from that. Im still taking Jennings over Burke if you ask me. Jennings is simply a better ball handler and more athletic in my opinion. Burke will never be able to shut down the elite point guards in the league like Pope has to potential to do and has shown.
How many times did he pee?
Lasthoke Im sorry to have missed all your posts. Everything I was thinking you said with a lot more clarity. The bottom line is I think everyone should be very happy with Pope thus far as hes PERFECT for THIS pistons team. The guy is all over the court always hustling and that defense is just awesome with flashes of offensive ability. Comparing upsides at this point. Pope > Burke
That has basically been my argument.
I think that they can BOTH be good draft picks.
Did I want the Pistons to draft Trey Burke? Absolutely.
Is the NBA Draft thread filled with several posts from me along the lines of, "YOU HAD BETTER DRAFT TREY BURKE!" and, "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" when he wasn't selected.
However, if you go back and look at that thread you'll also see me talking about how maybe Dumars has other plans in mind, perhaps a trade on the horizon for a point guard.
Not drafting Trey sucks, but that doesn't make it a mistake.
Hell, Burke can even end up being a better player than KCP but it could still end up being the right choice if KCP is a better fit for the team, and provides the Pistons with value. Also, if the Jennings trade works out, that could be another point in favor of drafting KCP.
People aren't honest with regard to this subject every time it comes up. If they were really looking out for the Pistons' best interest they'd be more upset that they didn't draft MCW because he has been far and away the best rookie in the league and he happens to play point guard.
They're not though. It's all about Trey Burke, and like I've said. That's fine. It's 100% understanable, but don't try to rationalize what is coming from a place of irrationality by making stuff up. Like that Burke has been playing at such a high level in comparison to KCP.
You keep talking about facts over feelings and being honest with yourself. Sometimes we need to look in the mirror and take our own advice.
Burke has simply been the better player. It would have been nice to have a reson to actually watch the Pistons.
This is such an absurd statement by you - the guy who would go into every Fire Borges thread and defend him to the death. Statistics were clearly not in your favor there, but you fought tooth and nail nonetheless. I'm not trying to turn this into a Borges issue, just pointing out your blatant hypocrisy.
You don't even have to go back to the fire borges stuff to see his hypocrisy. He said previously that essentially the only reason someone would think Burke was better is because they were homers, while ignoring the fact he's a Detroit Pistons Homer.
You know, I didn't remember him specifically from the fire borges threads, but while I was reading his comments about Joe Dumars Drafting Darko I said to myself, "this is a guy that totally ignores reality and will stick up for his guys with irrational arguements in an attempt to prove himself right...He must have been one of the Keep Borges group." Now I find out that was the case. Not surprising in the least.
something special, that's for sure. I hope he can get out of Utah someday and go to one of the NBA's top franchises.
on a side note, Brandon Knight scored 36 points in a double overtime thriller against the knicks tonight?!?! Joe Dumars WTF !?!?! fire him now
Plus 8 Turnovers. I hope you are not seriously trying to imply knight is better than Jennings.
Makes that trade for Jennings over Knight.
And khris middleton added 20 points
TheLastHoke is on fire. The man has passion!
That said, Pistons should have taken Trey Burke. This will be clear by the year's end.
I saw on Twitter that Trey Burke, LeBron, Durant, Kevin Love, Damian Lillard, and Jamal Crawford are the only players to have 30 points, 7 rebounds, and 8 assists in a game this year. He's certainly in good company on that list.
Also, I noticed a new block "M" tattoo on Trey's arm.
Oh I almost forgot - #$%^ you, Dumars!
He did get lucky with both Drummond and Monroe. Those guys were projected to go higher and unexpectedly fell into the Pistons' lap.
And the absurd comments of TheLastHoke frustrate me. You ignore the "stats' of everyone else. You say the Jennings trade was in the works, but ther was ZERO talk of that trade before hand. In fact the main reason they drafted KCP is because the Pistons had ZERO perimeter defense. That was regardless of Jennings and even more so now with Jennings.
So in your own words stop being a homer and if defense is your only agrument then simply say that KCP is a better defender b/c based on STATS he is better than KCP in almost every other category.
sorry, double post.
Alright TheLastHoke, here's a pretty compelte statistical breakdown of what we know about both players so far in their NBA time, since you keep saying the stats are telling a different story than what most are saying here:
Early Conclusion: Defensive signs are positive, offensively he's shown close to nothing of note outside of his low turnover rate. He hasn't had much of an opportunity, so it isn't time to panic in that regard, but offensively I'm a bit discouraged based on his reputation coming out of college.
Early Conclusion: Defense is a mixed bag, with Synergy liking him quite a bit, but 82games feeling differently. I'd probably interpret it as being mildly positive at this point, but that's mainly because I don't put much if any stock into raw +/-, so to each their own. Offensively he's actually doing a better job of scoring inside than I expected, and the only issue he's really had is getting his jumper to fall. Anyone who expects that to continue, based on his historically great ability to hit jumpers off the dribble in college, is bordering on insane. The turnver rate is very, very encouraging early on, the assist rate is solid, and all in all it's hard to find much to complain about offensively outside of the struggles with his jumper.