Can we please walk it back in a bit?
I first want to state that I am glad that there has been such an outpouring of condemnation for all the broken things. And there are a lot of broken things.
I know that a lot of people have expressed this opinion in other threads, but there hasn't been (to my knowledge) a thread that directly addresses this:
This movement is starting to creep into the "self-importance zone," in which it becomes less about the original offenses, and more about the reaction. Don't get me wrong, the original petition was sorely needed. I think that the Occupy Schissel movement last night was about as far as things should be taken.
I'm not advocating that anyone stop beating the drum, as the AD is PRAYING that people simply lose interest and stop. I'm not advocating that people show up to games this year. I'm not advocating we put down the swords and welcome a mascot with a sandwich board around his neck saying "EAT MOR CHIKEN!"
But I would not be surprised if the next thread to pop up on this blog is "SIGN MY WHITEHOUSE.GOV PETITION TO GET BRANDON REMOVED!!!!"
There are so many things in this world to get overly worked up about. Hong Kong, Chad Strong, among many unmentionable political and ethical issues that are common today.
The point I guess I am trying to make is this:
If you stage a hunger strike to fire the AD at Michigan, you've stopped making it about them, and started making it about you. The further this is taken, the more absurd it looks, and the less credible everyone looks.
October 1st, 2014 at 11:14 AM ^
look 2 posts below yours...
Change.org petition
October 1st, 2014 at 11:17 AM ^
Not that I advocate more petitions (seems to fracture the support more than anything), but if there's going to be a petition that's not for those specifically affiliated with the university, do you have a better suggestion than change.org? That's basically the go-to place for online petitions.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
not associated with the University? Why should the president and regents react to one when they are hearing from all these groups connected to the school? Their job isn't to keep fans happy.
October 1st, 2014 at 3:36 PM ^
Mr Miggle,
I am going to touch briefly on the 'we are important to U of M even though we did not/do not/may not attend the university!' Michigan would hard pressed, any school for that matter, to fill half of thier stadium with alumni/current students each week. I am willing to type that probably a majority of Michigan fans that buy tickets to any sporting event or sporting attire have not/do not/may never attend the university! That is a lot of revenue that would be alienated due to not giving them/us a voice! Seriously, please stop this mentality because you paid to go to the school. We care! I do respect those that have a degree from Michigan. I would have loved to play baseball (I was recruited, however i slacked on acedmics in my high school ages) at Michigan. So you know we are on your side.
Go Blue!
October 1st, 2014 at 11:12 AM ^
In the man this is right on point and I want to elongate the moment
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
October 1st, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
and the change may not come soon. . . Saturday will bring a new game, and more football to complain about.
October 1st, 2014 at 11:13 AM ^
and well said.
Does this include the endless posts about things that could be included in other threads...or possibly be avoided altogether?
October 1st, 2014 at 11:15 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
October 1st, 2014 at 11:17 AM ^
Damn, just created a thread pretty much to this exact tune. Agree 100%
October 1st, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^
I actually read both threads and kept this one for that reason just so we can confine this to a single thread, but I do agree with the sentiment here. It seems to me that much of the board is on the same page with Hoke and Brandon, but the 1,000,000 opinions and hot takes and melodramatic posts need to slow down a bit.
As a general note to anyone who sees this, think of it like Snowflakes - is there a thread already covering what you want to say in, say, the first 2-2.5 pages of the board? If so, try to fit it in one of those. I know people want to be heard, but it is definitely drowning out news and other discussions now.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:23 PM ^
I saw my post was taken down and figured that was the reason. This post came up while I was typing up mine and considered asking to have mine taken down except I touched on a couple more things that I felt this didn't. Either way the most important point was made so I'm not butt-mad or anything. Thanks for the response.
October 1st, 2014 at 1:00 PM ^
I put a great video link to Otter from Animal House on your thread and it was deleted by LSA (the jerk). One of my more inspired contributions and he blew it away.
I'm thinking of starting a petition and kickstarter to pay for his MGoBuyout.
/removes tongue from cheek
October 1st, 2014 at 3:28 PM ^
Do you know the details of LSA's contract? How much would it cost to buy him out? Also, what are the risks in replacing a moderator mid-season? Are there any decent candidates that would consider a jump?
These are all quesions that need to be asked before we can come to any sort of decision.
October 1st, 2014 at 11:19 AM ^
along with it?
October 1st, 2014 at 11:27 AM ^
I fully agree. My point is simply, if the cashier at Kroger does not accept your expired mouthwash coupon, it is unwise to light your cart on fire and curse loudly in Aramaic. You'll pretty much lose all credibility at that point.
Obvious exaggeration but...
October 1st, 2014 at 12:07 PM ^
If you can curse in Aramaic then I'm impressed.
Arabic, on the other hand, is less impressive.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:52 PM ^
Not to drive home the point, but that was exactly what I was getting at.
October 1st, 2014 at 2:05 PM ^
If you ever have the need, I've got a guy who could help you with that.
October 1st, 2014 at 11:23 AM ^
This is a good opportunity to make my announcement...
For every week that Dave Brandon continues in office I will remove one finger, starting with my left pinky and moving left to right. If he continues after 10 weeks I will move on to my toes, in the same order. Each severed digit will be placed somewhere in the Big House until justice has been dealt.
October 1st, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
...on week 21?
October 1st, 2014 at 11:33 AM ^
Yes. Its time to calm down a bit. Almost every single fromer football player on both ESPN and FOX have come to Hoke's defense for the Morris incident. They all say it was an honest mistake and calls to have him fired over this alone are beyond the pale. The students and those protesting actually look pretty dumb and unreasonable. Also, because none of this would be happening if Hoke was winning, we also look very bad. Just let this play out. Hoke is gone anyway, so let's not make fools of ourselves.
October 1st, 2014 at 11:36 AM ^
While I'm not completely disagreeing with you I would like to point out that the general focus of a lot of this is toward Dave Brandon which is an important distinction to make.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^
That's a fair point. However, our hatred of Brandon -- no matter how justified -- really isn't playing well either. Brandon might get fired, however, it wil not be based on student boycotts and protests. In other words, this is really beyond our control. Let's not air our dirty laundry so much as it highlights how bad things are right now. It's not good for Michigan or the players at this point. This will be over soon enough.
October 1st, 2014 at 11:51 AM ^
October 1st, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^
In the Detroit News today. A person on the sidelines has said trainers and other staff were screaming at Hoke to pull Morris after the hit. Hoke froze and didn't react.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/columnists/terry-foster/2014/09…
October 1st, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
So an anonymous caller on Valenti and Foster, of all sources, isn't one I'd put much stock in.
October 1st, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^
Foster is quoting a named source who says he had a sideline pass. Foster then went to the Atheltic Departmet with the info from the source and was told to see the AD's prior statement. In this case, it seems like the reporter actually did his job.
October 1st, 2014 at 2:23 PM ^
whenever ANYTHING goes wrong.
HE DOES NOTHING. He cannot process information, especially bad information. He just freezes up and does nothing.
October 1st, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^
but I don't believe that petitions and demonstrations and game boycotts by average fans will have any meaningful effect on whether Brandon stays or goes. Sure, it doesn't make him or the University look good, but the people up at his level—donors, Regents, Schlissel, etc—aren't going to can him merely because he's an unpopular jerk in the eyes of faculty, staff, students, and fans.
The things that I believe would bring him down are 1. serious athletic department financial problems that go far beyond a few thousand empty seats in Michigan Stadium; 2. proven malfeasance or unethical behavior; 3. overt insubordination with respect to the upper U-M administration and its directives; 4. pissing off major U-M donors; or 5. pissing off sufficient numbers of influential athletic department boosters and former UM athletes.
So far, there's no evidence for #1, #3, and #4. As for #5, there are longtime athletic dept. boosters and former athletes who hate the guy, but for this to have any effect by itself the numbers of the discontented will have to be huge.
The one item that could be a serious problem right now for Brandon is in category #2, and I'm referring to the allegations that medical staff were being pressured to lie about the concussion stuff. If this were corroborated by people directly involved in what went down, then I can easily foresee the Regents and the President taking action quickly. However, absent any proof or hard evidence, Brandon and his employees will simply deny it, and I doubt he'd be removed simply due to allegations that aren't backed up.
October 1st, 2014 at 11:58 AM ^
of student discontent. It's just college sports - although I do feel the health of one young man was jeopardized and the credibility of an athletic department was subsequently compromised - but this is Organizing 101.
No one has a greater capacity to organize and gather in menaningful numbers to demand change. No one has higher visibility. Not only is this Organizing 101, but it seems like a viewpoint that has missed the entire last decade of change brought on by the combination of social media and large crowds back in the real world voicing their discontent.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^
which is much more effective when dealing with politicians who have to face the voters on a regular basis. Brandon doesn't.
I truly think that we'd have to see Hong Kong-like crowds in the streets for it to make a difference here in Ann Arbor, and that's simply never going to happen over college athletics in this town.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:46 PM ^
but you know, it worked on the Harvard Corporation, and they are WAY more secretive and closed to the world than anything Michigan has going.
But the Harvard Corporation = people who did not need to face the voters on a regular basis.
And a big part of that is that student uprisings get visibility. Always have, always will. And that has been true for the longest time. Again, it's just college athletics, but it has a parallel news media (the sports media) that treats this stuff and turns this stuff into exponential visibility just as this occurs in the real world counterpart.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
What change has been brought about in this country by protests on social media? I agree that social media has played an important part in movements that eventually got rid of their shitty, abusive leaders in certain parts of the world, however, those situations are very different than here. This is a sport program at one of the richest and best public schools in the world.
This is not life and death. This is not about freedom or equality. This is about the fact that we don't like the guy who is running our football program. Big difference.
October 1st, 2014 at 3:47 PM ^
"What change has been brought about in this country by protests on social media?"
Seriously?
It's obviously a far more serious situation, but if you don't notice what's going on with the Title iX stuff in social media, then real media, and real world gatherings, I don't know what to say. Some of "the richest and best public schools in the world" have been turned on their ear by that.
No one is saying the situations are equivalent, although the endangering of a student-athletes long-term health and the shamefulness of the subsequent response are serious matters in their own right.
And the mistreatment and self-inflicted alienation of the student body is also serious. I've been at universities where students are respected and treated as valued and I've been at schools where at least the latter was not true. It makes a massive difference in the overall experience. And to discount the important of the 4 or 5 years that occur in these kids' lives is to truly turn your back on the "Michigan Difference."
October 1st, 2014 at 1:06 PM ^
there are some university politics involved and Brandon is in a weakened position. The fireworks issue was a minor one, but a public rebuke is an indication that his support isn't what it was with the regents. He can't have any political capital with the new president. This isn't the first problem with Brandon since he's arrived. The easiest way for Schlissel to deal with this PR nightmare is to clean house. Given his statements upon taking the job, I don't think he appreciates having to take an active role in solving problems in the AD. I'll be surprised if he doesn't push to have someone he trusts more in that regard.
October 1st, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^
October 1st, 2014 at 12:02 PM ^
Thank you, OP, for stating what should be obvious. I think Brandon and Hoke should go, and I've found some of their behavior very frustrating and objectionable. But jeez. People are treating this situation as if it's the central conflict in their/our lives. In the larger scheme, it's pretty inconsequential, and it's sad that THIS is what compels people to action. A little perspective would be nice. And such self-righteousness. If M were undefeated right now, how many of our protesters would still be calling for heads to roll? Only a minority of them, I suspect.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:04 PM ^
I completely agree as the posts are really getting into the category of absurd.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:12 PM ^
Can smell blood in the water. Heads will roll.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:13 PM ^
October 1st, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^
October 1st, 2014 at 12:20 PM ^
October 1st, 2014 at 12:36 PM ^
and people will be dragged right back into the reality of the horrific mess we teeter on top of.
But it's Wednesday, so the famous Michigan passivity and willingness to get sucked into believing is once again springing back into its old shape.
You really have to time the throwing of your pitchfork around here.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:25 PM ^
. MY FIRST DOUBLE POST! grrrrr.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:48 PM ^
. would go a long way right now.
As this continues, self-righteous and pompous are adjectives that are apt for a good majority of the posts - just keep piling on to slam your opinions into the blog.
I get all of the indignation and the reasons for it.
Honestly- evaluating and researching the reactions and posts from the last week, let alone the last two coaching staffs, would make for a phenomenal thesis in psychology.
October 1st, 2014 at 1:02 PM ^
1) No one is saying that Hoke doesn't care about the kids. Or if they are saying that, they're idiots. He obviously cares tons for these kids and the University. That's not up for debate, so anyone who addresses that, is giving a rebuttal to a non-argument. This has nothing to do with anything.
2) Everyone really needs to drop the "If we were winning" argument here. This is also a non-argument. The issue is Hoke's ineptitude...if we were winning, we wouldn't have an inept coach over his head, and vice versa. This argument is null.
3) Allusions to hunger strikes and shouting in Aramaic are indeed exaggerations, but they are so large that they completely take away any analogous tone. Yes, a hunger strike is ridiculous, but a protest by students at Michigan? That's completely appropriate considering the situation. College kids often protest stuff...should they be protesting other things? Not really the issue here.
4) It's not just Hoke. That has been made clear repeatedly. The fact that no one on the entire coaching staff saw the hit is...well, it's a lie. Or incompetence. An entire staff is problematic. The AD has been slowly dismantling the program in favor of cash and heightened exposure and it has backfired dramatically. This means that, whether you think he's doing the right thing or not...he's failed.
5) The whole "shut up and support your team argument" is a false one. People can cheer for the team and still express unhappiness with the administration or coaching staff. These things are not mutually exclusive.
I agree that there are other greater things going on in the world...but we're all here just posting on a blog. I don't think any of us can really claim that this is all that serious.
Go Blue.
October 1st, 2014 at 12:33 PM ^
I think people have way overreacted. People are looking for reasons to get upset, and to me staging a Fire Brandon Rally at the Presidents home just reeks of college kids acting like college kids.((arent there more serious important issues to protest about) Brandon has become the popular villian . It hasnt been all bad news when it comes to him in fact he has single handily done more than everyone else to upgrade facilities and buildings for ALL of Michigan sports.UM probably has THE BEST athletic facilities in the nation with more upgrades coming.
Im in the minority I guess..In fact I may be the ONLY one but I think hes done a fairly good job as AD..(yes there are some things I didint or dont like) but we couldve done ALOT worse as far as AD's go....
Let the bashing of me begin.....
October 1st, 2014 at 1:00 PM ^