Can "touch" be taught?
It seems to me that Denard has few deficiencies as a QB at this point, and the ones that come to mind are more mental than physical (i.e. some minor ball security problems while running the ball, decision-making issues like knowing when to tuck and run, etc).
However, there is one physical deficiency of his that sticks out to me - touch. His arm is very powerful, and that's great for throws 20 yards and under. However, it seems that when he tries to make throws longer than that, ones that require more touch, he's almost always long. That deficiency has been pretty consistent this season. Thus teams like Iowa playing a saftey ten yards behind the receiver on deep passes.
My question is, "Can touch be taught?" I tend to think you can gain a little more of it with a lot of practice, but for the most part it's unteachable. It's more of an innate athletic instinct, and I'm not sure how much progress Denard will be able to make on it. It's like the huge guy in high school who would punch you in a "just kidding around way", all the while not knowing that he hit you in a "I want to hurt you" way instead. Many of the people on this board tend to say that when Tate goes in, you get nothing new, just more throwing and less ground speed. I tend to disagree. I think one major advantage Tate brings is his touch on the long throws. That's why he's very dangerous on late drives that require a lot of throwing. I really hope Denard can get a better feel for deep balls, but I'm just not sure that you can practice your way into that skill.
November 16th, 2010 at 3:15 PM ^
If a person has the physical tools, I believe touch can absolutely be learned. It just takes a great deal of practice and getting used to the receivers.
November 16th, 2010 at 3:18 PM ^
Yes, exactly. If the physical tools are there (e.g. Arm strength), then it's a matter of getting adjusted to the receivers, and getting the muscle memory down for that type of throw.
November 16th, 2010 at 3:46 PM ^
Someone with great touch can get the response they're looking for from a receiver. Fluidity, muscle memory, concentration all play into it. A little almond oil, lightly scented, also helps ... Wait, what?
November 16th, 2010 at 3:59 PM ^
I think John Elway is a great example of touch being learned over time. He had a canon arm, and his first few years in the NFL he'd often end up with drops or miss because he rifled it when he should have used touch. Later he still had a canon but had learned more touch.
Come to think of it Mallett is a bit like that too. At M he seemed to have no touch on short throws, but in the the little I've seen of him since I'd estimate he's learned quite a bit more touch.
November 16th, 2010 at 3:17 PM ^
I agree that it is just something that comes with practice. While Denard is definitely inconsistent with his accuracy on deep balls, I'm less concerned about a lack of touch. That deep ball he threw to Roundtree was beautiful so he's shown the ability to make quality throws but just doesn't do so often enough. I think with more time working the offense and getting his timing down Denard will get a better "feel" with his touch on deep passes.
November 16th, 2010 at 4:15 PM ^
i think it's more of "timing" than "touch". though i may be splitting hairs here. he's showed several intstances of touch; including the passes to Webb and Koger against purdue.
i think it's more a matter of timing for overthrowing deep balls; ie. throwing it as hard and as far as he can but too early, resulting in overthrows.
grbac was the best UM QB i saw a throwing the deep ball, though he didn't have the strongest arm. he always seemed to put enough air under the ball and led the receiver to the open area (usually desmond).
November 16th, 2010 at 3:19 PM ^
I think he is right on. Perfect practice makes perfect, and, to be perfectly honest, he has probably spent most of his time just learning how to make the proper reads at this point of his development. The seam pass that he threw to Webb on Saturday was a thing of beauty. He is young and will only get better with age.
November 16th, 2010 at 3:32 PM ^
That pass to Webb was one of his best throws this year; no it didn't go for a TD, but man was it beautiful.
November 16th, 2010 at 3:19 PM ^
I'm sure we can figure something out!!
November 16th, 2010 at 3:21 PM ^
Martel Webb doesn't agree.
November 17th, 2010 at 8:34 PM ^
better than my teacher Miss Smith took to my touch the rod lessons
November 16th, 2010 at 3:25 PM ^
I would argue that alerting pass trajectory/velocity (e.g. touch) is namely a mental aspect of the game that comes with time. You have to consciously think about altering the ball's flight path after you make your read. You saw a pass with nice touch thrown to one of the TEs against Purdue. Great pass.
EDIT: I was semi-beat to it
November 16th, 2010 at 3:50 PM ^
There's nothing worse than being semi-beat.
November 16th, 2010 at 4:07 PM ^
Concious effort, or decision making, usually occurs at higher brain centers, presumably the motor cortex. It is quite possible that a player has the capability to make the correct reads, but we don't know without talking to him.
Just because a player makes a concious read on a play that requires touch doesn't mean the player will be physically able to execute that decision. There may be a disconnect between the mental decision making process and the physical ability to make a certain throw that requires the correct recruitment of muscles spindles, among other natural physical processes occuring at lower brain centers.
So essentially there are 3 general processes going on. The mental aspect, the physical aspect and the stuff in between. Again, I don't know what Denard is thinking, but Denard is certainly physically able to make a throw with touch. I personally think that it is the stuff in-between that is not allowing him to be as accurate and consistent. This includes, trust, instincts, inhibiting factors, external factors, muscle memory, motor learning. Denard needs to be able to make that smooth transition between his decision to actually make a certain throw and the physical outcome, which will take time and practice.
So after my rambling, the answer is yes, "touch" can be learned.
November 16th, 2010 at 3:28 PM ^
It's apart of the reading process. This is pretty much year 1.2 of 3.2 with Denard, and he's really just being taught how to read a defense. He was a project when he got here, and he still remains a project, he will grow into the position.
November 16th, 2010 at 3:32 PM ^
His throwing motion is still shifting too much, a problem Tate does not have due to his intense training before he even stepped foot on campus.
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November 16th, 2010 at 3:39 PM ^
Remember last year when many were claiming that Denard couldn't throw? He wasn't a QB. I think this may be the same line of thinking if you believe he doesn't have it in him to improve his deep ball.
This will improve as he spends more time throwing deep passes to his receivers. I would be much more worried if his deep passes were falling short, signifying a lack of arm strength. Luckily he's throwing the ball too deep or off target.
Henne didn't exactly have the most accurate deep ball as a freshman (Braylon bailed him out many times). Mallet didn't exactly have the most accurate deep ball as a freshman either. Denard may be a sophomore, but this is still his first year starting. QBs tend to become more accurate as they get older.
November 16th, 2010 at 3:40 PM ^
I want to bang my head against the desk. Is this the same lack of touch he displayed in the Illinois game on the 1st throw and the 75 yarder to Roundtree in the 2nd qtr or the throw to Odoms against Notre Dame or the......
Listen up people, Denard won't be perfect ever. He will try to rush for 2,000yds and not have any incompletions for you next year, but we have to get him back to the lab first for some tweaks.
November 16th, 2010 at 3:51 PM ^
Repetiion, repetition, repetition.
November 16th, 2010 at 4:10 PM ^
Exactly. I'd say touch stems from muscle memory and the only way to get that is by practice and repetition.
November 16th, 2010 at 4:18 PM ^
I wouldn't bet against Denard on much of anything, he seems to be a gym rat, if he continues to put in the extra voluntary hours of practice, he will be successful in improving his touch and that is a scary thought for the opposition.
November 16th, 2010 at 4:43 PM ^
He will be fine. He can learn touch. He has only been a starter for 1 season. He just needs time and practice!
November 16th, 2010 at 4:53 PM ^
Like a lot of posters have already stated the answer is yes. Think of it as you would a basketball player and his jumper. It's all about repetition.
November 18th, 2010 at 10:23 AM ^
A lot of it is being relaxed, timing, body and foot position, and playing relaxed and confident - it definitely can be taught and will improve with practice
November 16th, 2010 at 6:29 PM ^
I agree that it can be acquired through more repetition.
I'm wondering how much his throwing has been affected by the shoulder issue. If he is being held out of some throwing drills, he misses an opportunity to build that comfort with receivers, and it allows his mechanics to slip a little bit. I imagine things will start clicking once he has some time to rest it, possibly even during the bowl practices.
November 16th, 2010 at 8:43 PM ^
where he has a stack of balls. It is an advertisement, but it's true. That's the only way one can get better, either through precise whip throws or soft grenades. When I was a kid I was given a football as a Christmas present. I didn't have a stack around and never practiced touch. However, within a year from 12 to 13 years old, I could throw and hit anything on a line within 30-40 yds and that's the way I threw - much like Denard- and with obvious growth and strength, my distance became greater and my accuracy never waned because I was always throwing the same way. I was not sharp on the long bombs, but miles ahead of everyone else just due to the fact I could throw. Hell I didn't even know I was qb material until my coach took me aside when he saw me pick one up and toss it to someone during a drill.
The more you practice anything, the better you'll become. I will add a caveat though. If you don't possess the desire to get better, I mean actually love what you're doing, you'll probably only progress to the OK level.
November 17th, 2010 at 12:13 AM ^
Most passsers learn touch as they go along. Call it repetition, practice, or experience, but touch is usually a talent that increases with time; some just take longer than others. I think Denard has lobbed a few pretty nice "finesse" passes this year.
I think he is fighting both hip and shoulder injuries, but is too much of a warrior to talk about them, because he would see them as "excuses."
November 17th, 2010 at 9:15 AM ^
He'll get there, I think it's been said a few times practice and repetition. I think it's more of a timing thing on the slant routes and a little practice and reps on the deep ball and fades. It looks sometimes as if he's still thinking too much(trying to be a qb) instead of just seeing and throwing or running(natural instincts of being an athlete).
November 17th, 2010 at 9:17 PM ^
Can tackling be taught? Denard can't tackle for shit. Now who wants to move Denard to defense? He could be the next Vinopal, make an interception and then FUMBLE!!!!!!