We get it. They're thugs. Drop it.
landing spot. will be interesting to see how he does.
We get it. They're thugs. Drop it.
I'll call him if he plays next week and ask him why a player who trys to take someone head off is not suspended.
I thought any player that punches gets suspended for the next game. Isn't that what happened to a Purdue player and in a different game one of our players under Rich Rod?
This a coaching thing. Idk if this has been posted, but you won't believe it.
This is MSU's defensive coordinator after the game: "The only disappointing thing was the penalties," Narduzzi said. "The unnecessary roughness, you know, the guy (Robinson) is squirming all over the place. I thought that was what the game was, unnecessary roughness on every play, and that's what we tried to do, 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness. I'm just glad they didn't call it every snap."
That's as close to criminal after what happened as I can imagine. My mouth is still open...
Staters gotta state.
The Big Ten will take care of it on its own. They don't need hundreds of butthurt Michigan fans calling in to complain like little bitches. Besides, you look like the little kid who runs and tells his mom that his brother stole his fire truck.
The Big Ten will take care of it on its own. They don't need hundreds of butthurt Michigan fans calling in to complain like little bitches.
I see nothing wrong with fans exercising their right to complain about behavior that would result in jail time if it had been done off the field. If the B1G office allowed the public to contact it by email, a call wouldn't be necessary, but they don't.
Since we buy tickets, sit through their commercials, and/or pay cable fees, we are their customers. Therefore, we are allowed to demand good customer service. In this case, good customer service would dictate that someone who adversely affected their product in the manner in which Gholston did should be suspended.
My main point is that the Big Ten has a history of suspending players for throwing punches. Why not wait and see what they do before starting petitions and sending hate mail to the Big Ten?
Now I have no idea if fan-complaints will sway the decision. I expect not. But based on how the suspensions of Mouton and REckman went down, I think that there is good reason to believe that things might not get called unless there is a large public outcry.
And it does more good to get it out there fast and loud, so that hopefully the suspension of Gholston can hurt State against Wisconsin, where it could make the biggest difference.
It would be weird, in my view, if the Mouton/Reckman precedent didn't hold up. Publicized, videotaped incidents, of a very similar nature. I would think that the Conference would suspend Gholston on its own for the exact same reasons, no matter what we (or any other fans) said.
Gholston will definitely get suspended. My bigger issue is with the officials who did nothing to take control of the game and allowed the nonstop thuggery. By not ejecting Gholston it just told msu that you can go ahead and do whatever you want.
No, we told them they can do whatever they want because we were unable to take advantage of any of their thuggery. It's not as if the plays weren't resulting in penalties. If we cashed some of our opportunities in they would've been a little cleaner
Fear of ejection is another. Yes we failed to capitalize on penalties but it doesn't forgive letting a player throw a punch and not get ejected. I thought that a thrown punch was automatic ejection, the fact that it was his second personal foul should've made that decision easier. A player that reckless shouldn't be out there.
Right, but nothing else that they did warranted ejection. An occasional late hit on Denard isn't going to get you ejected. FWIW I agree that Gholston should have been ejected after the punch (2nd offense), but I don't think that would have changed the way they played. JMO
The way they play, sure. But Gholston was getting into the backfield quite a bit. Kid is good, and him missing the rest of the game could've relieved the pressure on the OL.
On the late hit that injured Denard, that wasn't your run of the mill late hit. The player body slammed him AFTER he had the late hit. Watch it again, he goes in with his arms up and hits Denard, than he moved his hands down, picks up Denard and slams him.
That was pure intent to injure and should result in a multi-game suspension along with Gholston. Honestly, between the attempted broken neck and the punch, if I was the big ten commish, I'd suspend Gholston for the rest of the year and require that he complete anger management classes.
If something isn't done soon, we'll rapidly go down the path of enforcers: find best play, break best player, get a meh pointless penalty. Cause if they aren't going to really enforce things like sportsman like conduct, why not take advantage of it, other teams obviously will. There are rules in the book to handle things like this but the refs are too afraid to utilize the unfair advantage rules (Rule 9-2-3 Unfair Acts).
Same thing with the taunting rule, honestly it doesn't go far enough, should be loss of ball AND minus 6 points (and since the TD never occured that would be a total of -12 points). Nothing wrong with requiring plays not to be idiots.
or even 2 if Cousins were injured/ out of the game. Hell, probably even 3 penalties.
I think I'll hold off on being a bitch...
i lrft a general vm but any ideas on a good ext#
This whole thread is embarrassing and comes off just as sour grapes under the guise of student athlete safety. MSU beat us and did it in a completely classless and thuglike manner that we should have expected they would.
This is really getting out of control. All this focus on a couple of personal fouls while ignoring the ass kicking we got? I've read all the articles before coming here and was glad to see Hoke, Kovacs, Martin, and Denard all admit what we all saw: MSU was stronger, better prepared, and wanted it more and beat us the hell up. And Lewan is no choir boy, he gives as good as he takes, and you can see how he turns away like it was nothing after the "punch" - because he knew it was coming after grinding his head in the dirt.
Seriously folks, get a grip. what we should be concerned with is how our Coach seems to have decided he doesn't want Denard starting at QB anymore. It's clear he is goingo to continue giving Gardner more and more snaps until he can take over. It's also clear that our D is not as good as we hoped. and just like last year, MSU showed the world how to contain Denard and beat us. THAT is what i'm pissed about...not a couple of personal fouls. You all sound like extremely sore losers that want to go to the dean have some guy disqualified instead of accepting you got beat straight up. It's pathetic, and very un-Michigan like.
I don't think anyone is ignoring anything. There are multiple threads dedicated to what our problems were this game, all with posts critical of our team and coaches.
As for Lewan, I've never seen him throw a punch. Ever. Until then, it's not acceptable to punch him; there's a reason Lewan wasn't flagged and Gholston was.
As far as sounding pathetic, I have no idea what to tell you. Do you honestly think this thread wouldn't exist if we had won 58-0? That wasn't "a couple of personal fouls", that was five on one team, their coach encouraging it, and one in particular that would have had a multiple game suspension and a six figure fine in the NFL.
the first time Denard has gone down and not come back up this season. It may have been the first real injury to Denard. Still want to go with that theory?
the first time Denard has gone down and not come back up this season. It may have been the first real injury to Denard.. Still want to go with that theory?
I disagree with all te M fans here saying "stop whining". This isn't whining about ref'ing, this is a legitimate issue that could have ended in paralysis. This is not overstatement; watch the neck-twist again. That's not just bad football, that's life-alteringly dangerous. Fr the referees not to eject a player after two such events is ridiculous.
They were not up to the task of controlling the game. I'm guessing their supervisors let them know this after the game, too. Doesn't make it any better, but I wouldn't be surprised to see whoever makes the calls about ejections take next week off.
Multiple threads on the same topic just makes us sound like whiney sore losers.
Gholston's a thug. The Big 10 office will probably get some film from the coach's office and it's up to them to handle it from there. Let's stop with the whining. It's over. We f'n lost. Move on.
But c'mon man, this is not RCMB. You lose, it's dirty; you win, it's gritty.
I can tell you never played football, Man up
Cheap shotting a player is NEVER gritty and ALWAYS dirty. Period. There are no two ways about it. If Michigan won by doing this, I would hope like hell that Hoke suspended any of the players involved. But Michigan didn't. State did. I'd rather have a team with morals that loses than a team without them that wins. Maybe State should move to the SEC, where "win at all costs" is a more appreciated mentality.
If you can look at that and call it anything other than "dirty play," then maybe you should switch over to being an MSU fan. That sort of activity has NO PLACE on a football field and is nothing that anyone should EVER do.
I don't think anyone here thinks it wasn't dirty. The point is that at the end of the year, everyone has some dirty plays (including us) and that whining about it accomplishes nothing other than making us look like sore losers. Stop whining.
Really? We attempt to permanently disable players and snap their necks?
Go back to your board troll
I did play football, actually. Lakeview High School, Battle Creek, Michigan - 2003. When one of our players, during a city rivalry game, grabbed another player's facemask and repeatedly slammed his head into the ground he was ejected and suspended for a hefty portion of the season.
Thank you for assuming incorrectly, sir.
you clearly didn't play football...or atleast play it well. I played for 8 years and was considered a "dirty" player. How was I dirty? I held on almost every play without fail, I would keep a pancaked defender from getting back up and I barrel rolled blitzing linebackers. But never did I throw a punch. Never did I hit late or go for someone's head. What the Spartans did isn't dirty or gritty play and its not football. It's a complete lack of class. When my obnoxious spartan friends even take a step back after this victory to comment on how they were a bit embarrassed by some of their players' actions, then something is most definitely wrong with what they did.
Well you're kind of right, I didn't play football "well". But I had passion to play well, I'm just not athletically talented. That's why I went to U of M for an education and not for football.
But I really don't understand everything that followed that statement as far as the overarching theme. I just see a lot about your 8 years of "dirty" but not "dirty" football play and then some loose connection to the current topic.
I listed specific players, not the whole Spartan football team (which I did actually congratulate on a deserved win). So please, take a little bit longer to formulate a clear message and a little more formatting.
Easy there killer, I'm on your side. I was trying to refer my statement to the person you were talking to, not sure how it pulled it in as a reply to your post.
The forum is assuming you were the kicker then.
You're spot on, this isn't RCMB. Over there they don't care about the exceptionally dirty style of play, they just want a win. Over there how Gholston plays is "gritty" whereas in the rest of the college football world it's dirty. Telling everyone to "man up" because we're complaining that our players are being punched or having theirs head twisted is not smart if you're looking to stay here longterm
I'm guessing Bertuzzi's hit was just a part of hockey too? Some things have no place in sports, this is one of them.
I love the Wings, but I still can't get myself excited about a Bertuzzi goal.
Yeah, and we had a cheap bastard who twisted limbs and pulled hairs in the pile. Lucky for everyone, the coach benched him before someone we played decided to take it personally and cause him some real harm. It's one thing to play nasty and follow through on your hits even if you might be able to pull off, it's another to body slam an unsuspecting player well after they've made a throw or try to throw a roundhouse on the field. I have no faith in Dantonio to take care of the issue like most competent coaches would, I hope the big ten steps up with something.
it's clear all the people crying about Gholston have never been at the bottom of a pile! Ask anyone and they'll tell you it's the meanest nastiest place on earth. That kind of twisting, pinching, grabbing, biting, poking, and in general trying to hurt the guy next to you happens in ever pile in every game at every level. Heck, didn't Marcus Ray say he was "a pincher" in that back and forth with Banks in the freep or news last week? and that he amped it up for this game?
The only difference in this case is that it was on the OUTSIDE of the pile instead of underneath it - so the world got a rare clear glimpse of what is happening every 22 seconds on saturdays and sundays across America in the fall. I guarantee you our guys were doing the same shit under the pile all game long.
All I want to tell you is this. Fu(k you.
to all those saying that we're whining did you see him twisting Denard's head!
Do you think the Big Ten somehow missed it?
What does it matter if they missed it or not? I am sure they are well aware of the issues at hand, but they won't fully understand the seriousness that the on-field conduct display by certain football players has with regards to the impressions of the Big Ten football teams, players and fans UNLESS we actually voice those opinions.
Why are you so against contacting Jim Delany? Do you think he's totally gonna pwn our opinionz and Halol at the whining Michigan fanbase?
And why am I being down voted for trolling. Really, people? Promoting safety is trolling? Holy crap I've overestimated the general intelligence of this forum.
You've overestimated the intelligence of the sparty douchebags on this forum.
First, to the gentleman that was willing to call and put his opinions in a positive and effective manner (not just forum banter) - to reach Jim Delany:
1. When first prompted, press 8 for directory listing.
2. Press 5 and 4 (starting to spell Jim)
3. Press 1 to call Jim Delany
4. Further headaches, press **132 and you will be forwarded to an assistant's voicemail with no apparent tone to leave a message
5. Start talking and press # when you're done. It will give you proper prompts to re-hear your message or delete it.
- I pressed # when I first got confused for the lack of a message tone prompt after dialing assistant's extension. You can then press the appropriate button to "re-record" your message.
That is the entirely too difficult way to give any sort of vocal message to Jim Delany's assistant.
I am not encouraging useless whining. I am encouraging people to take action to make sure Big Ten officials know the fans do not approve of the conduct displayed on the field today.
Congratulations to the deserving Michigan State players for their hard fought victory today of Michigan. But not all players deserved to still be on the field at the end of the game.
I'm talking about Big Ten student-athlete's safety and that's considered whining? I strongly suggest those against calling the Big Ten commissioner strongly reconsider the point of this thread.
Why don't you wait and see what the Big Ten's response is before calling for #OccupyBigTenHeadquarters.
You're going to loosely bring politics into a discussion about student-athletes safety? Stop posting before you constitute actual trolling.
You get a life and get over it.
If Michigan thinks something was wrong, they'll file it with the Big Ten offices...like they do after every game. Your call will do nothing. Much like this thread, other than to serve for fodder for RCMB.
Everyone stop whining. We could have taken advantage of the numerous 15 yd personal fouls but we couldn't. The team needed to man up and make sparty pay and they couldn't do it. On to the next one.
The whining isn't about the fact that we lost. We all realize that MSU outplayed us and has a good defense. What we are pointing out is the refs and Dantonio not caring about player's safety or good sportsmanship. MSU's players need to learn to not cheap shot other players. They need to learn not to intentionally try to injure other players.
Didn't miss anything. My point is you make teams pay for stupid penalties and they won't continue. Let them get away with it and they own you for four years. I have faith Hoke remembers this next year and the team will be better for it in the long run.
I guarantee you Hoke is over it already and on to Purdue. They'll watch film tomorrow and this one will burn a bit. But it's time to move on. This obsession with Gholston is pathetic. It was two plays that gave us 30 yards we did nothing with. THAT's what makes me mad. They tried real hard to give us that game and we didn't take it. And in the end, they came up and took it back with that Pick 6. who cares about a punch to a facemask or a twisted helmet? hell, i've seen hundreds of facemask penalties in action way worse than that!
so much over reaction and too little focus on the real problems we should be discussing with this team and our effort and playcalling today. EXCUSES.
Really. What makes you mad is that we didn't capitalize on the penalties? What makes me mad is that Gholson could have broken Denard's neck and Lewan's arm. That's what makes me mad. This is bigger than the game. It is about why we play/watch the game. Believe me, if Gholson would have succeeded in either attempt that is all we would be talking about. That he failed makes the situation no less reprehensible.
JIm Delaney can't even name the divisions right, and you expect him to fix this, ok...
I thought I made it clear I understood the causes of our loss on the scoreboard.
But are we going to put our "internet-cred" over the safety of our student athletes?
If RCMB mocks us for this, then that's their own issue. I'm talking about the right that everybody has here to contact the commissioner of the Big Ten and let them know how they feel about the SAFETY OF THE STUDENT ATHLETES IN OUR CONFERENCE.
Sorry for caps, but that is my clear message.
Let the Big Ten take care of it. I didn't like it anymore than you, but that doesn't mean I'm going to call Jim Delaney personally about because "WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!" FOotball is a tough sport. Players will be dirty from time to time. It happens. What's your call/email going to do? Honestly, what's the purpose of it? If Hoke does his job then he will take care of this insofar as he can.
Somewhere Brian is thinking "Thank you for the TWIS material".
I'm not going to come over there and force you to call Delany and I understand why you won't.
But instead of ongoing useless rants on the internet, I'm suggesting people actually call in their complaints because that does more than internet rants.
And yes, I'm sure TWIS will be entitled Occupy Big Ten Headquarters. And I will have a laugh.
This isn't what TWIS is. Trying to make sure that league rules are enforced by punishing cheap shots is NOT something that makes it onto TWIS. There are some TWIS-worthy comments in other threads, but not this one. The day Brian starts considering people caring about player's safety as TWIS worthy is the day that I stop reading TWIS.
Channel their inner Gordan Ramsey for this thread and SHUT IT DOWN!
We don't need to cry to the Big 10 office. We lost we will learn from this and get better. Besides the Big 10 doesn't need to punish MSU Wisky will do that to their D line soon enough.
I'm not talking about the actual loss. What I'm talking about is that student-athletes' safety was put at risk by an ineffective officiating crew.
Some of you are so quick to "Love Denard", but yet some won't even support a suggestion to call the powers that be in order to support his safety?
Fine, don't call Delany. Call David Brandon. I didn't want this thread to be a pissing match or flame war, but I guess it is still the interenet. I just wanted to post a number and easy instructions to voice the concern of the safety of the Big Ten student-athletes.
The OP is like a parody of a college football blog post.
I'm gonna advise people to NOT do this.
You're making it worse. please let's just move on. 5 years ago none of us will care because the MSU game will go back to what it used to be: just another game.
Yes, twisting someone's helmet could have seriously injured Denard and Gholston should be looked at for mult-game suspension, perhaps the year.
But dammit, someone should have made a point of drilling Gholston then next and that little punk mouth Rush for the rest of the game. You beat a bully by BEATING a bully.
Next year, 60 mins of pain for Gholston and Rush.
If you're implying that Michigan should have cheap shotted MSU back, then you're wrong. That's sinking to their level, and we're better than that. THIS IS MICHIGAN FER GODSAKES. We should encourage our players to play clean, even in the face of opponents playing dirty. Haven't you ever heard "two wrongs don't make a right"?
@Drill - no, you're jumping to conclusions and you need to look at the context... what I am implying is that M needs to teach its men to hit hard and hit often, contact is part of the game ...
Look at what Gallon did, keeping full contact till the end and even taking his guy down.. Don't you think he won some respect from his MSU defender there? I bet he did and I bet he got treated differently...
Let's realize football is a contact sport and we need to HIT someone. Clean, but hit them.
Twisting someone's facemask around or punching them in the face isnt hitting... it isnt football... its bull shit
I agree with the sentiment, but, this isn't the NHL. You don't send Darren McCarty out there to fight Lemieux because of a cheap shot from earlier in the game or the game from last year.
You beat a bully (in football) by scoring more points. To the victor, goes the spoils. In the 4th quarter if UM runs a QB sneak, gets the first down in the red zone and punches it in to tie and eventually ties the game, the whole conversation is different.
Then the highlight is not only the UM win, but, the foolish, classless and dangerous behavior of MSU players that trickles down from their head coach who clearly preaches one thing that he is heralded for in the media publicly, but, obviously acts another way with his team.
sorry dbl post...
More than losing to State, I hate what losing to State does to some Michigan fans. Jesus Christ. These are the kinds of things we're supposed to see on RCMB.
the various governing bodies receive each week from fans.
If Hoke has a problem, I expect him to take it to his boss, who can take it upward from there. I would like to think the fan base will support the coaches and the team.
People are so quick to call for a thread shutdown. This has not actually turned into that bad of a conversation. We do have opposing viewpoints, but that doesn't mean we can't converse.
Is this kind of how Congress works? If we disagree and somebody calls to shutdown, then we either agree to hug or shutdown?
But I don't have anymore immediate points to make. I left a message with Delany's assistant. You guys do what you want. Just don't resort to useless name calling because THAT is what really provides good fodder for other forums.
Yes, MSU made plays and we didn't. They won the game. Whatever. That sucks.
The FACT is, however, there's countless video evidence to submit to the league in favor of Michigan State University's football team acting like future convicts of America. It's a travesty to the game. I hope Hoke finds some things to send off to the league administrators.
All the aforementioned examples + the textbook example of the new taunting rule on the Pick Six. That's inexcusable.
We will be fine. Mark Dantonio is the ringleader of a rather despicable squad. They'll get their's down the line.
Maybe a rule change is needed. First personal foul gets a yellow card (unless it is fragrant which gets a red card and immediate expulsion and suspension from next game). A second personal foul (by same player) results is a red card and expulsion and suspension.
HAHAHA this is gayest thing I've ever seen. Just FYI these posts are being C/Ped other places and being laughed at. You guys are terrible.
It might be more effective to email David Brandon and ask him if U-M will contact the league office about this.
You know, this game is bad, but I think one could make a case for a history of this sort of stuff. Wasn't Martin hobbled for the season by a dirty play last year?
MSU penalties: 13-124. The Gholston punch and the Rush tackle/slam were each flagged for 15 yards. Lewan was also holding Gholston down by his facemask. What do you want exactly?
I'd be happy to call about Jonas Mouton slugging away at ND as soon as I click "save".
Gholston should have been ejected, and he should be suspended now (as Mouton was). He was lucky to not be tossed after the first incident, when he ripped Denard's facemask after the play was over. After the second it was a no-brainer. Two personal fouls should be an automatic DQ in the Big Ten.
Am I missing something? One team gets flagged the other should take advantage of said penalty... Seem bush league to argue otherwise.
There will be no penalty for dirty play from a team that failed to punish 18 players for ski masking before going to Rather Hall to put a beatdown on the Fraternity housed there. When 17% of a college team is involved in felonious assault and nothing happens it should tell us what he is trying to build, so the play today should not surprise. This one is over next year at our house, not sure what colors they will be wearing then but they will go home with a red ass/
Some in here would do well to follow the example of our Head Coach at the post-game presser today.
Leaders and best.
I am sure Persa would like his voice herd after Kovacs ripped his helmet off.
There is a distinction to be made between what happens during the course of play and what happens after play is over. There is no justification for Gholston grabbing and ripping Denard's facemask after the play was over.
Has anyone posted video of the Marcus Rush penalty?