C-Webb/Jalen Rose relationship damaged: Fab Five reunion, banner raising hopes look bleak
Didn't see this posted anywhere on here and suprised it went unnoticed.
Jalen explains how Chris Webber has been dissing him. How Chris isn't happy about Jalen calling him out to show up at the National Championship Game in April. And how Jalen isn't happy that Chris didn't participate in the Fab Five documentary.
It looks like the possibilities of a complete Fab Five reunion/honoring/banner re-raising aren't likely, anytime soon at least. So far the only player of the 3 whose bans have talked about coming back was Maurice Taylor. Anyone know where Bullock is? (RIP Traylor)
November 20th, 2013 at 10:23 PM ^
November 20th, 2013 at 10:33 PM ^
Was it Chris Webber who fired Steve Fisher?
Was it Chris Webber who did NOT hire Brian Dutcher, who deserved the job, and instead promote an unproven assistant Brian Ellerbe to head coach?
Was it Chris Webber who let the facilities go to shit?
The answer to all of the those questions is a big, fat NO. You can blame the incompetence of the athletic department for problems during those years.
I can name a bunch of programs who were busted with major violations and did not go through what this basketball program has because their athletic department did not fail THEM.
November 20th, 2013 at 10:45 PM ^
No, but it was Chris Webber who lied to a grand jury about taking money from Ed Martin. It was Chris Webber who called up WDFN to blast the living hell out of Michigan. It was Chris Webber who has made this entire ordeal about how he felt he was entitled to something, after he spent his two years at Michigan whining to anyone who would listen that he felt Michigan was taking advantage of him. After he signed the dotted line to be an amateur athlete, and while he was taking money from Ed Martin.
Michigan gave Chris Webber an opportunity, and Chris Webber left Michigan holding the bag. Webber is unrepentent. His actions in part helped to put us on probation and hamstrung at least one Michigan basketball team from getting an NCAA bid they rightly deserved.
Why anyone still defends this guy is absolutely beyond me. Was he exciting to watch? I can tell you he absolutely was. But he made his bed as far as Michigan is concerned.
And, really, we have a great team and a great-character coach who does things the right way. Those kids put a banner in the rafters that won't be taken down because some of them were on the take. And we're still talking about the Fab Five?
November 20th, 2013 at 11:05 PM ^
November 20th, 2013 at 11:10 PM ^
I mean, at that price and his Ed Martin cash, he could only have afforded approximately 5600 #4 jerseys.
November 21st, 2013 at 9:45 AM ^
...and yet there's no proof of this "Ed Martin cash".
November 21st, 2013 at 10:01 AM ^
Oh really?
November 21st, 2013 at 10:46 AM ^
Yes. Really. Martin said he provided much money. Webber said he didn't and later admitted to having taken (and repaid) ~$40K. There is proof of anything more than that. The conviction was for contempt. If he got the massive money, he didn't show it. A $40K loan is not a big deal for a guy who (from a "proper" source) could have borrowed much more than that.
November 21st, 2013 at 11:20 AM ^
Maybe I could believe you if you could actually write a coherent sentence, much less root your argument in any actual facts.
But, no. This is pretty much revisionism at best.
November 21st, 2013 at 11:49 AM ^
Wow. What a tremendously obnoxious comment. How dare I drop a couple typos!?!?!
There is no evidence other than the statements of Ed Martin that indicate Webb received the massive money that people (like you) assume.
Given your certainty, I assume you went to Michigan during the Fab5 years and/or know Chris personally. You probably saw him driving a shiny BMW, wearing gold chains and paying for Mr. Spot's with $100 bills. No? That's not the case? You don't know him? You weren't there? You're just rolling with Ed Martin's word? Fair enough.
On the flip side, I know the guy you're trashing so I guess it's a little harder to talk so much shit about a person when you actually know more than rumors.
p.s. Is "But, no" a coherent sentence? Thanks for being such a swell person.
November 21st, 2013 at 9:09 AM ^
Oh please give me a break. If I have to hear Mitch Albom spew that BS once more I'm going to get sick..
November 21st, 2013 at 10:00 AM ^
November 20th, 2013 at 11:09 PM ^
"And, really, we have a great team and a great-character coach who does things the right way. Those kids put a banner in the rafters that won't be taken down because some of them were on the take. And we're still talking about the Fab Five?"
That just goes to show you how much the Fab Five means to this program. You ask an outsider what's the first thing they think of when you mention Michigan Basketball, and 9/10 times they will say the Fab Five. The black shoes, black socks, the trash talk, the street ball-style. It was a cultural revolution and they changed basketball forever.
If all this crap didn't happen, I guarantee you that Chris Webber's jersey would be hanging in the rafters at Crisler. Webber is arguably the greatest player here in the shot clock era. He was a man among boys out there.
I don't blame Chris for being upset about how he was treated. I'd be pissed off too if my face in the record books was just a blank box, and there was a huge blank spot on the wall at Crisler where my picture was when I worked so hard for that program. From what I understand, the relationship with Ed Martin started out through a young age when his father was accepting the gifts. You mean to tell me you wouldn't take a couple thousand dollars at 18 years old? You're a liar if you say no.
He made a mistake as a youth. That doesn't make him an evil person.
Both parties need to acknowledge their mistakes and work together and finally put some closure on things, so we aren't still bickering over this another 10 years from now.
November 20th, 2013 at 11:11 PM ^
He made a mistake (and not as a youth, but as a legal adult--he was already 18 when he arrived in Ann Arbor), and now he's paying for that mistake. It's called consequences. And these are said consequences.
November 20th, 2013 at 11:18 PM ^
Adult only by law. Have you matured and gained wisdom since you were 18? I hope so because I sure as hell know I wasn't an adult at 18 years old. My head was still spinning with all of the changes going on around me.
Jalen had an interesting quote when MSC said the banners weren't going back up-
"Should I do like most of its former BBallers & never return?"
He has a point. Gary Grant, Roy Tarpley, Maceo Baston, Rob Pelinka, Daniel Horton, Rickey Green, Sean Higgins? Where you at?
That's always been a disturbing fact for me. The only former players I can recall seeing return (besides the 1989 reunion in 2009), are Cazzie, Phil Hubbard and Glen Rice. The football and hockey alums are like a big family. There is so much disconnect with the basketball alums, it's sad.
November 20th, 2013 at 11:23 PM ^
An 18 year old sure as hell knows enough to realize that "amateur athlete" means "I don't get paid to be play here." 10 of the other 11 guys on that team knew enough not to do it (Jalen having admitted to taking money, too).
November 20th, 2013 at 11:50 PM ^
The Ed Martin-Webber family relationship began prior to Chris coming to Michigan. His father was accepting the money when Chris was 12(?) and up.
Nobody should blame Jalen for taking money. He was a poor, inner city kid and came from a low income household growing up without his dad. Same thing with Traylor & Taylor. Both inner city kids. If your mom or dad is struggling financially at home, and you're a teenager being offered wads of cash. You're going to take it and not care about NCAA rules. You're worried about what you're going to eat, what you're to wear.
Now Chris, he went to a private school so I'm not sure why his dad was accepting the money/gifts.
November 21st, 2013 at 12:13 AM ^
I thought Webber went to Country Day on a scholarship. He may have been inclined to accept gifts to fit in a little better with his more well-off high school classmates. Just a guess.
November 21st, 2013 at 12:45 AM ^
Nobody's blaming Jalen. Nobody's condoning Jalen, either.
The difference, though, is that Jalen was honest and forthcoming with what he accepted. Chris Webber wasn't, which in this here Land o' the Free is called perjury.
Now, you can say all you want about a kid making mistakes. But blatantly lying to a grand jury, in your mid-twenties? Now, that's deliberate misconduct.
November 21st, 2013 at 1:13 PM ^
And I wish all the Webber apologists would re-read and think about your comment: "Now, you can say all you want about a kid making mistakes. But blatantly lying to a grand jury, in your mid-twenties? Now, that's deliberate misconduct."
November 21st, 2013 at 12:10 AM ^
November 20th, 2013 at 11:21 PM ^
I love the differing uses of Adults/Kids on this blog.
People talk about never booing the team, "they're just kids out there!"
But if someone messes up against UM, "they're all 18 and adults"
November 21st, 2013 at 10:45 AM ^
This isn't by any stretch unique to MGoBlog. I think it's a confusion in general for our entire culture. Are college students kids or adults? Seems like the answer is 'yes'.
November 21st, 2013 at 1:07 PM ^
That's true. I guess it's just more noticable on here due to the blog's subject
November 21st, 2013 at 5:55 PM ^
November 20th, 2013 at 11:24 PM ^
Thanks. Seems a number of people just need to point fingers and hate. Chris Webber was a humble and unselfish player and teammate throughout his career, and seems to be the same as a person. There's no reason to blow a mistake he made as a naive teenager out of proportion. The basketball program would have avoided the drought if they didn't make a couple horrible coaching decisions and Jamal Crawford didn't get screwed. The fans who wouldn't welcome Webber back are jerks who are probably just projecting their own self-hate at him.
November 20th, 2013 at 11:59 PM ^
November 21st, 2013 at 1:14 PM ^
The University did not make millions of dollars off of the Fab Five (which could count Chris Webber as unquestionably its best player)?
November 21st, 2013 at 3:39 PM ^
Why does Jalen have a problem with him?
November 21st, 2013 at 9:03 AM ^
I don't know, I went to look up some of his stats and I found out he didn't even score a single point in his career at Michigan! No way Webber's jersey should be in the raftors.
November 20th, 2013 at 11:20 PM ^
"Michigan gave Chris Webber an opportunity"
How nice that Michigan gave the number 1 overall recruit that opportunity. What would Chris have done without such an opportunity? Oh ya, go to any of the the other dozen premier schools across the country looking to give him the exact same 'opportunity'.
November 21st, 2013 at 12:15 AM ^
You need to stop declaring what the fanbase "needs" to do. You don't speak for me.
November 20th, 2013 at 10:23 PM ^
Bill Simmons may be a somewhat great writer, but man does he suck on camera
November 21st, 2013 at 10:33 AM ^
For a second there I thought you said "Bill Simonson" and my head nearly exploded.
Carry on.
November 20th, 2013 at 10:27 PM ^
November 20th, 2013 at 10:36 PM ^
There's no hope for a banner raising anyway.
November 20th, 2013 at 10:46 PM ^
I've lost track of how many times this particular horse has been beat. I'm just really impressed with your ability to battle it out on this topic every single time it comes up. I got worn out several threads ago.
November 20th, 2013 at 10:58 PM ^
I know this has been hashed out as many times as Owl alludes to and more, but is there one example of a raised banner for vacated wins (and changing "Finalist" to "Final Four" in 1992 shouldn't be done either) anywhere in the country? DII, DIII, University of Miami, Kentucky, anywhere?
November 20th, 2013 at 10:38 PM ^
Too bad he didn't play for OSU, he would have been carried off the court as his jersey number was retired and raised to the ceiling years ago.
November 20th, 2013 at 10:40 PM ^
I'm sure it will happen someday, but not any time soon. We're just gonna have to wait it out. It'll probably happen when no one expects it.
Also everyone should watch the video ''Jalen Rose Explains what College Recruiting Visits are Really Like''November 20th, 2013 at 10:48 PM ^
What's there to wait out for? It will never happen. Ever. You don't celebrate wins you vacated. You don't celebrate banners you broke the rules to earn. The longer this is still a story that gets trotted out, the more it distracts from the kids currently in this program who aren't cheating and are still winning anyway.
We're the Leaders and Best. We don't celebrate the moments where we weren't. And that period, unfortunately, was one of those times. This isn't a generational thing--it's a character thing.
November 21st, 2013 at 12:24 AM ^
Does the character issue to which you refer have to do with fully grown adults at the top of their professions making buckets of money on the backs of hardworking teenagers given drastically below-market compensation and shamelessly coerced into forgoing totally legal streams of income so that a cartel can circumvent labor laws by pretending not to be a business concern?
November 21st, 2013 at 1:35 AM ^
November 22nd, 2013 at 11:21 PM ^
Completely agree with Bando on this. If those banners ever go back up, my days as a Michigan basketball fan will be over. You have to draw the line somewhere.
November 20th, 2013 at 10:54 PM ^
I don't understand the fascination with this whole saga. They don't play basketball here anymore.
November 20th, 2013 at 11:00 PM ^
November 20th, 2013 at 11:00 PM ^
They were epoch-defining.
So what if they don't play here anymore? Do you not think that history is important?
November 20th, 2013 at 11:25 PM ^
What the whole Chris Weber taking money thing? I do care that it helped Michigan suck at basketball until very recently. Ohio State parades Jim Tressel onto the field and everyone here climbs onto their high horse to trash Ohio State, and then we turn around and margainalize what Weber did and clamor to raise illegitimate banners.
November 20th, 2013 at 11:36 PM ^
You said that you don't understand the fascination because they don't play here anymore. Neither do Charles Woodson or Tom Brady, but they are important to Michigan nonetheless.
Sure, I understand that Webber's legacy is hardly 100% positive. Maybe it's not even 50% positive. But he and the Fab Five were still great, and they still played for Michigan once. That matters. So people will continue to talk about them. It's that simple, really.
November 21st, 2013 at 9:38 AM ^
That team and game more than any other marked the Big Ten's mediocrity in basketball for many years. After Knight left, the Big Ten was about Izzo and later tOSU until very recently.
My son never knew the Big Ten as a power basketball conference until last year. He grew up during the era of ACC With Duke and NC being national powers and the hype of Dookie V/ESPN.
Yes, the Fab 5 team was fun to watch, but I wonder how much things get clowded because the past always seems better when looking back at it.