It is time!
Well almost. May 7th officially.
It is time!
Well almost. May 7th officially.
You're good. I believe that is thread worthy. Pretty bad rendition of the victors but at least he in on board.
I like Jalen's idea. Honor the team for for what they were to the fans. I don't care for the original banners to be put up since those games "technically never happened". But as a fan, I'd love to see some sort of honoring of those teams. It may be touch to just put "Fab Five" up there since, yes, there were other players on the team, but I'll leave that up to the more creative types to come up with.
I don't think anything needs to be done in the arena/playing area, but I would love to see a display, with the banners, with the positives and negatives from the Fab 5 Era. It could talk about the cultural influence, the racisim, the basketball, the scandal... and it wouldn't be out of place in the historical area of the new Crisler Center.
But I don't think UM as a whole cares to be recognized for racist letters from donors, baggy shorts, bald heads, integrating rap music into the CBB culture.
It will always be perceived by scandal and Ed Martin.
To think otherwise is ridiculous. One coach will not chew pouches when DB is around practice because of the image UM wants to always uphold.
It would be a huge mistakek and frankly............stupid
(I think you're replying to my comment, so I'm going to reply to yours)
I think you can't honor the fab 5 without acknowledging the cultural shift that accompanied them. Basically, I think having a running loop of Jalen's ESPN movie would prove the point.
Whether or not it's the image we want, it happened. It existed, we should acknowledge it in some way, without sweeping anything we don't like under the rug. We can't just honor them (think Tressel at OSU this year). We can't ignore them - they're a major part (good and bad) of Michigan's basketball history.
You're right that copies of the letters probably aren't a good idea, but having text on the wall describing how the "brash student athletes dealt with lots of acceptance issues... " etc. I think is necessary to tell the story.
I was in hs at the time and was a huge fan. I bought all the Nike gear and wore black socks until I was threatened to be benched.
It will be remembered but don't think that UM will be the one to remind you of it.
As far as honoring them...........Why? Lets be very direct here.
Has any first loser (second place) been honored by any upper tier program.
Has any team that didn't win a B1G championship get honored by any school.
The perception of this scandal and team outside of AA is more UNLV than anything else. Tark has not been celebrated since his firing.
UM does not want nor will embrace the culture that they helped initiatel UM will stand with pride on how they have dealt with minority enrollments and other issues like that. They will never look at the institution from the eyes of a fan.
"Has any first loser (second place) been honored by any upper tier program."
Yes. NCAA tournament runners-up get some sort of recognition. On the other hand, those games technically don't count (the Fab 5 games that is), but coming in 2nd in the tournament is still quite an achievement.
Been so damn long, did UM or NCAA remove the wins?
Couldn't tell you, but either way I believe they are wiped from both Michigan's and NCAA's record books.
Indiana bought rings for their Sweet 16 appearance last year
that everyone views them as a bunch of cheaters? You may be a little too immersed in your fandom. Around Michigan fans, that may be the case, but the casual basketball fan (which are a majority of the fans) view them as a cultural phenomenon. They loved the innovation and the change they brought to the game...bucking the system and a case could be made for them being the most culturally significant TEAM in the history of their sport, if not any sport. Has any other team, altered the culture...the uniforms...the "swagger" of their game more? Perhaps...perhaps not. That's what most people see...they don't even know who Ed Martin is, all they know is someone cheated and the banners came down. But in the realm of what they accomplished, that's Jordan's gambling problem vs his greatness.
As far as acknowledging the racism, I agree that it doesn't have any place here. This isn't the first black ball players EVER, fighting a civil rights battle. I don't believe you acknowledge that part of the game. Celebrate the positives, and keep it simple.
Read you post again..................do those sound like Coleman and Brandon values?
That is not what UM values nor wants to be remembered for.
And who are you? How can you speak for what the University values or wants to be remembered for. I want Webber to be a part of how my university is remembered. He was a big reason I became a Michigan fan.
not sure Brandon and Coleman share the same values as often as you suggest
in regards to idea of whether theyre worthy of that type of recognition having never won a title. Personally I think they are worthy. The fact that it was a team of five starting freshman who were at times completely dominate, and did it in an incredibly entertaining, albeit cocky was so polarizing. All this in an era where players tended to graduate, 5 starting freshman was just unheard of. While a title is missing, 2 strait championship game (the 2nd w/o cwebb) appearances is still pretty amazing. If our starting unit had been a mixture of classes like it is now, Id be more apt to side with you. I just think freshman factor is unique and interesting that it warrants some type of recognition.
...Now we just need D-Webb to sing The Victors.
C-Webb was there for the 2nd. Both years of the intact Fab5 they went to the Championchip game. He left after his Sophomore year.
Timeout, I don't think thats right. Pretty sure Webber was in both championships games.
Has any first loser (second place) been honored by any upper tier program.
Any school in the country will raise a banner to commemorate a Final Four appearance. That's a no-brainer.
Glad to see he is still rooting for his old school. He made a lot of mistakes but he was too good of a player and the Fab Five had to much of a legacy to completely ignore that part of Michigan basketball history.
I don't know if I really want a banner, but I would like him and rest of them to be able to come and watch games and openly cheer on their team.
Webber is disassociated officially with the university until 5/7/2013 (As referenced above). What happens on the 8th is anyone's guess.
Formal apology and a matching donation with interest of what was speculated he received and give it to MOtt.
This would be only a starting point IMO
Dave Brandon said similar in the Fab 5 doc.
Personally I'm looking forward to CWebb's book.
Didn't know if this was new-thread-worthy, but on top of the news story last week about John Harbaugh quoting Bo (http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/ot-john-harbaugh-quoting-bo-espn-article), I thought it was interesting to see one of Dumervil's main reasons for joining the Ravens...I'll let you guys find the winning quote:
We're busy, serious men. The winning quote:
Dumervil said a sense of "friendship and family" helped him to decide to sign with the Ravens. He also said he liked that Harbaugh stressed "the team, the team, the team."
its good to hear C-Webb rep some Michigan
Go Blue, beat KU
I still love that man.
I want two things from Chris Webber: an apology and a mea culpa. I think he should be required to offer both before he is "honored" for anything he did at Michigan.
I detest the fact that Webber's actions were directly responsible for a chain of events that paralyzed Michigan basketball for ten years and allowed Tom Izzo to have the state to himself in recruiting. If Chris Webber hadn't made it cool to take Ed Martin's money, Izzo would have been Jud Heathcoate v2.
Despite all of that, I would be willing to forgive Webber. All I want in return is for him to take responsibility for his actions. I don't think that is too much to ask.
Bottom line: I don't believe it is possible to claim moral higher ground as a fan and simultaneously honor the player most responsible for Michigan becoming a dirty program for five years without requiring him to show some contrition for what he did.
Michigan made millions off the Fab 5. Not flying a banner hardly gives the program the high ground.
I'd love to see Webber do whatever it takes to reconcile, but it takes two to tango. Michigan chooses not to fly any banners honoring the Fab 5 accomplishments. That's a UM thing and has nothing to do with NCAA restrictions. The first move can be made by either side, so I'm not singling Webber with all of the blame for where things stand.
Flying those banners would be like giving the finger to the NCAA.
It doesn't matter if they made or lost money. There are not conditional rules based on profit.
Do I think athletes should get something.....absolutely.
Don't forget that Webber, Rose and Howard ended up making millions and UM provided that platform for them.
UM didn't provide them that platform, being awesome at basketball did. Those three would have had the same NBA career regardless of what school they went to.
I don't need an apology from Webber. I just want him back.
you should be furious that Webber chose to put UM at risk.
You are then, based on your argument that you are a Webber fan first and a UM fan second.
I just don't think Webber needs to honored.
The fact is that UM image and the Fab 5 era with the end result are not on the same page and I don't think they ever will be especially without a sincere humble apology.
I loved the Fab5 and was a huge fan.
You look at everything that Brandon and Coleman want UM to stand for and you will not find anything that lines up with the Fab5 era and the outcome of it.
I was questioning a persons logic not fandom
Wow Mongoose, you're the University spokesperson and fan police? The many hats you wear.
I am sometimes able to look at a situation regarding my alma mater and take a stance without first consulting my fandom. I understand what Webber did, I know he didn't do it with the intent to harm the school and I can't say with certainty that I wouldn't do the same thing if I was in his shoes.
So despite your allegation, one does not need to choose between being an M fan and a Webber fan.
I wasn't questioning fandom but the logic behind a thought process.
I never told anyone to choose and agree that I don't think he meant to harm the school but he did AND he never apologized for it. In fact he tried to play the victom card.
I was a huge Webber fan even when he left but you have to understand that UM does not want to have the type of recognition and press that the Fab5 would bring.
You questioned my fandom when you said I was a Webber fan first and a UM fan second.
Exactly, and up until very recently (so during the entiure time we sucked) our facilities were far inferior to most any other major program (and some not to major) so getting the elite recruits we used to get was an uphill battle, even without the sanctions.
Michigan should Apologize for letting their alums send them those racist letters all for a buck
Chris Webber can sing The Victors anywhere he wants as long as it's never at center court in Crisler.
Well, I was hoping this topic wouldn't cause controversy, but this discussion seems to be getting rather ugly. My bad, MGoBlog.
Also, I downvoted the thread by mistake while scrolling, I guess. #NewbProblems
People acting like he killed somebody
Well, he did help kill a basketball program...
Yep, killed it. Haven't heard anything about that program lately.
I'm sure I didn't see you in Crisler in the depths of the Amaker era, then. No postseason, no enthusiasm, no fans.
Just because we're winning now doesn't mean we forget the sheer hell the Ed Martin scandal wrought on this program, the bulk of which directly concerned the shoebox where Chris and Mayce Webber stashed about $160,000.
I was in college during the Amaker years, and I was often there. However, I remember Michigan in the years before the Ed Martin stuff dropped and before the sanctions and we weren't exactly owning fools. They was more than just Webber that led to the decline.