BWW Post Game Coaching Thought Thread
I thought I'd start early since the game is moot at this point. I know there will be the traditional offense and defense threads but at this point I think the worst thing about UM football is you have no idea what unit will stink the coming week. There was a stretch the defense did ok (but gave up a killer drive at the most unfortunate time) but the offense was horrid.... people pointed to "youth". There were flashes of brilliance on offense - ND and OSU but almost everything between those 2 bookend games save for the HS defense Indiana rolled out was a disaster. And those 3 games were IMO one player (Gardner) playing like a NFL 1st rounder - so an entire offense reliant on such fireworks from the QB to be competent is damning. An offense should be able to function with just a capable QB, not require individual brilliance. Special teams has been average all year and tonight looked horrid.
I know as time passes and spring returns the usual rosiness will return to this board. It always does. But other than Shane tonight I didnt see much to be all excited about. I am very worried about the tackles and safety positions next year and frankly Blake and Raymon were demolished tonight by a nice upper end receiver but even the "well we are all set at CB next year" meme is shaky to me. The Big 12 is not a good conference but we showed tonight that we cant even hang with a .500 type team from that conference.
My general thoughts on the coaching early 3rd quarter of this game are below - I am ready for your neg bombs to eternity. The best thing about 2014 to me is we will no longer have the apologists who can claim youth or its all Rich Rod's recruits fault anymore. I am expected 7-5 to 8-4 next year... and mostly due to player talent infusion, not player development or outcoaching an opponent.
I know it is TL;DNR so dont read past this line if you just want to vent... I needed to vent, as this football program has wore me down (with an exception in '11) since 07.
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Be honest. If you took off the uniform's and replaced them with Purdue's of the Joe Tiller era would there be any difference btw those Purdue teams and UM program the past 6-7 years? A good to above average QB, a finesse offense whose line generally sucks is ok but "finesse-y" year after year ...after year, especially when facing upper echelon defenses. Some nice WRs, average running game. A finesse defense that is dominated at the LOS when they play any above average team. But able to roll off 7-8 wins most years with a "special season" if all the right players come together and the schedule works out. Unfortunately that is the framework I see in our program right now.
Michigan outrecruits Purdue of any era by a wide margin which makes this comparison even worse. Michigan far out recruits KSU but you can see an elite coach, coach circles around us. I dont care what happens tonight or next year - the evidence is on the field the last 2 years (2011 seems to be the anomaly) ... without elite talent our coaching staff cannot get elite results. And that tells you all you need to know about the future of the program. Hoke recruits good enough there will be a lot of 9 win seasons out there but if you truly believe this is an elite staff that will take UM to the promised land well I'd like to have what you are drinking. And for those who say bust the bank for big time coaches, they are paying these guys like big time coaches - Hoke is #9 in the country I believe and we have 2 of the top 20 highest paid coordinator in all of college football. Sorry even Mattison, I was a big believer in 2011 but his conservativism is mind numbing and I am sick of reading how we dont have athletes when UM has the pick of the litter and has better recruits than Wisconsin or MSU every year. Top 10-20 classes year after year (or better) and "lacking athletes"? Please.
2014 will be another 7, 8, or upside 9 win season of relative mediocre with no margin for error at safety or offensive tackle, and being outcoached or out-toughed by the better teams. It is amazing to hear what Hoke said he wanted at UM and he cannot build and the apologists all just blame it on "youth". Harbaugh built the program in his mold in 3-4 years, they beat top 10 teams twice in his 3rd year, on the way to brilliance in his 4th. (He started with a 1-11 team) They were tough even when losing. Dantonio in year 4 at MSU was about to run off back to back 11 win seasons. Is that coming here? Nah. Sorry this is not a youth problem - this is a coaching problem from top to bottom. It is average coaching. Paid like elite coaching. And that wont change if they win 56-28 tonight.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:01 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:01 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:03 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:03 AM ^
Coaching? There was coaching tonight? Great... and I missed it.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:04 AM ^
Did you not watch Kansas State? They were pretty good tonight.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:04 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:09 AM ^
" We are a coward fan base and university if we stand for this level of mediocrity. Entire staff needs to be replaced. Anything less is cowardice."
That's the attitude three years ago that brought us where we are today.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:41 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 3:47 AM ^
When your fandom reaches a level where you personally become embarrassed by the performance of your team, it's time to seek professional help.
December 29th, 2013 at 2:12 AM ^
You learned the wrong lesson. Bigtime.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:05 AM ^
Is this the thread where we say 'fuck', or the one where we saý 'fire everyone?'
December 29th, 2013 at 1:10 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:50 AM ^
PUT SHANE MORRIS IN!
December 29th, 2013 at 1:05 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:08 AM ^
I'm not going to worry about it. BH isn't going to get fired this year and I'll wait another year to see if he turns the corner like Belein. At least the people who've been calling for DG to be benched all year will stop whining as Shane did pretty much the same as Devin's done. The problem is the OL. Without a good OL, nobody looks good.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:11 AM ^
So seriously, do you see the OL improving next year? If not, why are you waiting until next year?
December 29th, 2013 at 1:29 AM ^
Those people would be logical followers of football.
December 29th, 2013 at 11:37 AM ^
Yep, except those people then start to point and sputter when its noted that the OL looked as terrible last night as they did at the beginning of the season despite, more practice, experience and at least two offseasons for every player.
So see, the logical followers of football really aren't that logical, they just want the reasons for Michigan's failure this season to fall and land anywhere but on the coaching staff.
December 29th, 2013 at 9:21 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:09 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:09 AM ^
You forgot the CliffNotes...
December 29th, 2013 at 1:13 AM ^
We complain about coaching, playcalling, etc. But, IMO we are losing this game as well as others this year in the trenches. We can't run block, we can't get to the QB, we can't stop our opponent from running the ball. Granted we gave up a crap ton of recieving yards too, but if we could actually stop the run that may not be the case. In all fairness the offensive line problems have been addressed with the 2013 class. They are all really young and will take time to develop, but the solution is there. We also got an elite RB. We have multiple highly regarded QBs, we have two great TEs, and we have an elite WR coming in. That should take care of itself eventually. The defensive line situation I'm not sure has been addressed yet. Poggi, Mone, Charlton, Wormley, and Ojemudia will help, but I don't think we have an elite pass rusher yet. I think we really needed Hand. Hopefully Charlton or Ojemudia will develop into one, but I'm not convinced yet. None of us want to wait for these freshman and sophomores to develop which could take a few more years, but the game is won and lost in the trenches and we just don't have the players there now.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:53 AM ^
"I don't think we have an elite pass rusher yet. I think we really needed Hand."
I think thats a really stupid quote considering MSU has done just fine without recruiting ALL-WORLD 5 Star athletes. Finding the right player shouldnt be the issue.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:23 AM ^
I'm not talking recruiting rankings here. Shalique Calhoun was a 3-star recruit and he's young as a true sophomore. But, he's already a better pass rusher than anyone we have on the roster. Jake Ryan is an elite linebacker, but he was not a top recruit. We often talk about recruiting rankings, but I'm not talking rankings here. Obviously thats all we go on regarding Hand so far since he hasn't played a snap in college yet, but no one on our roster has proved they are any better than average as a pass rusher. Who knows, maybe Lawrence Marshall will be, but based on some of the scouting reports I've read he doesn't seem like that explosive pass rusher.
December 29th, 2013 at 9:16 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 12:12 PM ^
Agreed - outside of the QB position - almost all of the issuesimproves with better line play. On offense a better line means a credible running game (inside and wide) and better pass protection. We don't need a "sophisticated" attack - just one that is effective. KSU didn't run anything remotely complicated but they did do it well. On defense a better line means pass pressure without having to blitz which automatically makes the LB and DB play better.
I know that Jim Harbaugh and David Shaw are not available but I'd suggest Stanford is an excellent example of what can be done if we are sticking with classic I-pro football. Harbaugh when asked what he would do when he took over there told the AD that he wanted to get far more physical - that is what we'll need to see next year.
This game sort of summarized all of the problems we've seen all season except for the QB concern. Morris got the ball out quickly and didn't hold it. No running game. A defense which gave up big plays and little plays. Even 3rd and 25 was makeable against the defense. Spotty special teams (KSU started most of the time from their 35+).
Onto next year! Go Blue in 2014.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:11 AM ^
TL;DR
This is not helping.
Might be time for some firing though...
December 29th, 2013 at 1:12 AM ^
Our team seemed faster and in better shape in 2011 after 3 years under Barwis. Many of those same players sought him out before heading to the combine or pro days! This teams seems slow and weak!
December 29th, 2013 at 1:22 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:12 AM ^
I have watched some bad Michigan teams over the years but I have never felt like this. Even with RR I felt a glimmer of hope for the future. We fucking suck and we will continue to suck until this coaching staff is gone in 2 years. How fucking depressing to have this hopeless feeling.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:37 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 3:10 PM ^
If you really think we are in a worse place now than we were after three years of RichRod, you either have a really bad memory or aren't too perceptive.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:16 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:16 AM ^
Both are embarrassing performances indicative of the respective seasons. Underwhelming offense and defense.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:43 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:54 AM ^
The '11 game was our worst bowl loss ever, 52-14, and the players gave up and didn't care. I don't think the players gave up tonight. They were just out-coached and physically out-matched. It will get better.
December 29th, 2013 at 3:36 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:21 AM ^
Well... A couple thoughts
1) KSU makes their money on JUCO. Their QB won a National Championship last year. They are the King of JUCO transfering. If we could recruit and enroll an army of sophomores and juniors who are showing "next level" football ability... we wouldn't be in this situation.
2) Recruiting and Double Philosophy Change. Been beat to death here, but in the past ten years we have had 3 coaches and two (bordering on three) major offensive/defensive philosophy changes. Both Carr and RR recruited poorly. We have been hurting at depth at a number of key positions (Safety, Dline, Oline, WR...). Excellent college football programs are built on consistency - Consistency Consistency of Coaches, Consistency of message, Having players for 4-5 years.
3) Youth. I did not appreciate this until this year, when I started a Running & a Wrestling program with just Freshman (and a handful of Sophomores). Dear God, it has been a trying experience. Implementing a new system... building a foundation... Slow and tough. This is not to mention playing playing against teams with mainly Juniors and Seniors who have been playing in the same system for 3-4 years. The fact that we are bordering on 70% Fresh/Soph... it is tough and only those who have been there truly understand its challenges. I didn't until this year.
Conclusion: We need to stay with this horse for at least 5-6 years. We need to get a consistent message and the types of athletes to fit the system. These things don't just snap out. It is painful. But at this point, more change just slows the process even more.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:27 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:26 AM ^
But, you know, EMOTIONAL REACTION BC YOU PERSONALLY DESERVED BETTER
December 29th, 2013 at 8:23 AM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:31 AM ^
..what we just saw. (My eyes were glazed by the 2nd quarter but I remember most of it)
December 29th, 2013 at 2:07 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 11:02 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 1:32 AM ^
I really don't know what to think of this staff.
December 29th, 2013 at 1:37 AM ^
is we did not execute
December 29th, 2013 at 2:13 AM ^
Weeeeellllll, we did not execute.
December 29th, 2013 at 2:00 AM ^
I like how they got Norfleet involved in the offense for that one play. Other than that, I got nuthin'.