He's right, though he probably shouldn't say it.
spoiler alert: i linked this
He's right, though he probably shouldn't say it.
HEY GUYS LETS MAKE FUN OF STATE SAYING OFFICIATING COST THEM GAMES!
hey we lost cause of officiating.
Coaches get in trouble for complaining about officiating...can they do anything negative to Burke for the same thing?
did he comment on the LACK OF DEFENSE
Lol This actually made me laugh...I don't know how I was about to though up with the complete misery I am feeling right now
Really Burke? Wow. This season is over.
This season is not over, and in fact the game against Sparty this weekend is going to have some major, major fireworks. Our team is pissed, and they know they're being called out on their D, and I expect them to play as physical a game as we have seen in years. Then given that Sparty is always looking to scrum with Big Bro due to Sparty's UM fixation, and I give it about a 50/50 shot this game erupts into a brawl at some point. No joke. If our team wilts to Sparty's physical play and gets out boarded badly again though, I'll turn the page on Beilin's chances at an N.C. in the next ten years until he understands the value of defense and rebounding like Izzo does.
Yeah, because they responded so well to the Wisconsin game, the MSU blowout, the first shit parade against PSU....
Where is the precedent for this team responding to adversity? They're going to get killed by MSU and IU and Purdue's not exactly looking hot now either.
Just stop it.
Geez IU is the toughest team they played now this.
Please just shut up and no twitter appologies either. Just play ball.
Things you never say: That.
Come on, Trey.
Complaining about the quality of Big Ten officiating should only ever be done anonymously on a message board nobody cares about.
Yes the officiating was bad, but it's not the reason we lost. We shouldn't have been in the position where officials could change the outcome of the game. When you're playing a team who hasn't won a conference game all year and you're in the top 5, you should be up by 15+ points at the end of the game regardless of the officiating. Maybe we should try playing good defense for once before we start blaming officials.
he's absolutely right... i was looking at the stat line and it said the refs went 6/8 from the field, 5/5 from the line for 19pts.
Let's go with the six turnovers and the fact the team forgot to play defense for the last ten minutes as the real reasons. Blaming officiating right now just feels petty and like an attempt to shift responsibility for a loss that had no reason to happen.
It was true. For the people who say that as Michigan fans we never should blame the officials. If we don't hold them accountable who will?
Probably their bosses. I'd figure that's who holds them accountable.
Hahaha... Good luck with that
Their bosses clearly don't. There is consistently AWFUL reffing in the Big Ten, at the refs never seem to get in any trouble.
How would you know if a ref "got in trouble"?
I do know what I'm talking about - I've spoken with BCS conference officials cordinators. They do hold their officials accountable to standards. The ACC coordinator told me that their baseline is 90% correct and 100% correct in the final 4 minutes. Anything less earns them a negative report.
The ways refs are punished is through games. If they are rated poorly, they no longer get games and we the fans never see them again. Believe it or not, it happens more often than you think.
Well, it doesn't seem to be working. There is so many incompetent officials it's mind boggling.
Why don't we hire young, former college basketball players and pay them a great salary so they need no second job?
Does it really make sense to have these 60-70 yr old guys trying to keep up with extremely athletic college kids? I mean, why do we think this is ok? Makes zero sense.
You really think the problem is that the officials are on the complete other side of the court laboring to breath? What are you watching?
Officiating is hard. Basketball seems especially hard. On one hand, guys down low are allowed to get physical but at certain times (e.g., while shooting), so much as touching a finger on a guy's arm is a foul. And you have to do that in real time with probably 4 other players in the mix around them.
the problem is, fans of both teams view the same play and have completely contrasting opinions of what just happened. Now and then there is a completely blown call that everyone can agree was wrong. But even then, half of the fans of the team in question think it was called right.
People will never be happy with officiating.
I don't know of too many 70 year-old refs, but college does hire a lot of guys with really great day jobs and then fly them in to work games.
The solution is simple: throw out 95% of the rules concerning athletes taking perks, get rid of the enforcement and investigation staffs, let schools get rid of their compliance staffs, and put all of the money into competent, full-time officials.
There were a couple of football refs this year that got demoted because of poor officiating, one from the Big Ten.
We play shitty D and puss out on the road were factors in the loss.
Yup. That explains why this team has been playing piss-poor defense for the past month, walks into every game with cement on their feet for the first 10 minutes, shows little if any defensive passion or aggression. It's out of control at this point. Two more likely losses heading into the Big Ten Tournament, no bye, maybe a win then a loss, and then an early exit from the Tournament.
This team either squandered the season or wasn't that good to begin with.
what do we have as a signature win? Our defense is atrocious as evidenced by the B1G field percentage published a few weeks back.. . .
Might as well blame Sandusky for the loss
We lost because of shitty defense and leaving guys wide open at the top of the key for an easy 3 but that doesn't mean we should keep our mouth shut on the atrocious officiating because they were beyond mediocre today (e.g., Morgan getting called for a foul for standing next to a guy). The big ten needs to make a serious change cause its getting ridiculous out there. The refs are lost on charge/block calls, inconsistent at best (and biased at worst) when the center comes out to help out on a PG (horford/mcgary/morgan called for light touches while PSU not getting called for the same). Its such a shame that the refs are so bad. I guess they are better than certain Big 12 refs but thats not saying much...
It seemed like McGary and Horford would get called whenever they came out to help and they so much as touched the PG. On the other end it did seem like the Penn State bigs were allowed to lean into Trey pretty hard. There were a few where there was definite contact (Trey recoiled) but nothing. Life on the road in the Big Ten
When you are up 15 points in the second half to a team that hasn't won a conference game all season, you should not lose period. Bad reffereeing or not.
It is when right after the lead the refs started giving Penn State a parade to the free throw line
This team is soft. That is why they lost.
When 5 of our possible 9 man rotation are freshman, we are bound to make numerous defensive mistakes. This makes playing defense more difficult. Making these mistakes exacerbates our ability to play "tough." Also having our only senior, Morgan, hobbled by a bad ankle sprain makes defense tougher (ha; that is truly no pun intended). With more experience and conditioning, I'm sure we will look a little "tougher" out there.
If there is one person in college basketball that can say it, it's Trey. Officiating is so amateur in college it's embarrassing. No excuse for refs getting swayed so much by home crowd and momentum.
Burke has never mentioned officiating in the past. This game looked easily in hand up 15 in the 2nd half. A few charge calls and 3s by PSU and momentum took over.
Yes, Michigan played bad enough to put themselves in this position but the way this went down wasnt right. When the other team goes nuts from 3 this can happen.
Do you want him to come out and give the refs a slap on the back and say good job? He's the one who plays the game not us and knows whether the refs are calling it both ways.
Kind of would prefer he just doesn't say anything about it at all.
Him not comment at all about the refs. Instead, he could focus on a few things on the court in their control and maybe do them a bit better vs an 0-14 team...now 1-14.
Like I said in the other thread, you're not going to get calls on the road. And you're not going to get them when a team is gunning for an upset in their own building. You could see those charges four steps before they happened. PSU could play hands-on, physical defense without a reach-in because they knew the whistle wasn't going to blow.
That's basketball. It's like that in every arena in the country. And God knows we've gotten our share of help in that department putting the dagger in a great team at Crisler.
The key is how you get around it. These guys didn't even show they cared enough to figure it out. The lack of intensity, the looks of resignation, the game was over as soon as PSU cut it to three.
Meanwhile, every other big10 team that has played PSU for the past year didnt seem to find the refs to be a problem
The referees were really bad in last season's trip to Happy Valley, too.
Was every other team in the Top 5? Do you think they had the same motivation for Purdue?
Did the officials get swayed by the crowd in the raucous environment vs Northwestern?
If you think that a Top 5 team should have a higher chance of losing on the road , I dont know what to tell you
The constant bitching about officiating is pure comedy gold. Michigan has a relatively intelligent football fanbase, but Michigan basketball fans are terrible. THERE IS NO CONFERENCE WIDE CONSPIRACY AGAINST MICHIGAN!
PSU has lost to plenty of high ranked teams at home. Michigan, on a Tuesday, with a shitty crowd, just isn't that big a deal.
NC State beat PSU at PSU by 17
Indiana won by 23
OSU by 14
MSU by 8 with 2 players suspended
The only references to a conspiracy were of a joking nature.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
No. Not even close. This isn't that bad. He's saying the refs were a PART of the loss, and that they were NOT the reason we lost, all of which is true.
I often like to complain about the refs, win or lose. This game was no exception, except for that it truly seemed this time that the refs were actually playing a considerable role rather than me just being paranoid about it. That being said, I am a fan, and I get to harp on the refs. We were all thinking it Trey, but it's just not your place to say it. We really don't need a target on your back right now.
He also said it wasn't the reason we lost. He knows that we played bad D and had uncharacteristic defense but he hasn't come out against the refs before so maybe they actaully were bad instead of people saying that Michigan fans can't ever blame the refs.
I fear college basketball is turning into soccer. Look at Sheehy last night for Indiana. Flop, flop, flop, charge, charge, charge.
Charges reward bad defense. Just get rid of the rule altogether. If you get hacked its a foul but no more charges. It's ruining the game
Absolutely. Players from the 80s must just look at today's game and shake their heads. The three point line also needs to be moved back. I'm tired of watching games of horse.
I agree man. Its starting to look like Portugal vs Italy in the World Cup out there. Block/charge is really hurting the game and makes it frustrating to watch. Refs so rarely go with the no-call which I think is the best call most of the time. Flops and dives need to be punished. Crean even told Sheehy to do that.
I've never seen him complain once about refs. We have all seen how bad the refs have (refs apologized about Kansas game) and how skewed calls are toward the home team.
I do think the officiating was bad, though it's silly to bring it up when you've just played an 0-14 team.
What I don't understand is why there'd be home-cooking at all in an arena that's 75% empty. I guess there must be another explanation besides the argument that officials are influenced by the crowd. Surely, referees who are used to working in front of packed houses aren't going to be intimidated by a mostly empty arena.
Maybe they felt really bad for PSU?
I vivdly recall being really frustrated at the biased calls in last year's trip to Happy Valley, and wondering aloud to anyone if the refs just felt really bad for PSU's terrible record. I distinctly recall anything resembling a slight breeze on a PSU player being called a foul, and Michigan players getting mauled down low and it was "play on."
I read an interview with a ref once where he said that if a team is completely overmatched, refs will give them leeway because the refs prefer exciting games as much as anyone.
Just wait until NEUTRAL COURT action. Yea, it'll be awesome.
0-14 team, losers of last 18 B1G games and 125 people in attendance.
Find a way or find an excuse.
Find something else
but you know what you should do when you get slapped in the face and there is no call? SLAP THEM BACK. Someone has got to show some fight. If he thinks they got slapped around tonight, just wait until what Sparty does. It can't be a real fight if only one side throws punches...and you know they will.
If he slapped back he would have gotten a charge call
I trust Burke. It's not like he says this every loss. He knows that they missed calls that could have helped us win. Now if Burke is dwelling over it until Sunday it's a problem. He needs to work on the TOs and defense but if it is a factor then why can't he say something about the refs. Why are they untouchable?
I love the kid, but that's a weak ass move to call out the refs. Even if he's right
The refs were a factor in the game but they were not the reason Michigan lost. When you have a team on the ropes and are up by 15 in the second half you have to keep your foot on the freaking pedal! I'm sure they just watched Indiana and Florida last night then go out and do the same damn thing. These next few games are crucial to being a 2 vs a 4 seed in the tourney. I hope they get their crap together.
8-16 shooting, 2-7 from 3 from THJ. 5 turnovers from Stauskas. 3-8 from GRIII. Missed layups at the end of the game. They shot 65% from the FT line, and sent PSU to the line 27 times.
Forget how bad the defense and the officiating was. Make the easy shots, don't turn the ball over and we win. That's it.
Wait. Are you criticizing 50% shooting from a guard?
Offense was not the issue. Giving up 84 points is the problem. A team going nuts from 3 and getting LA Laker circa 2002 type calls is why this occurred.
I feel like people on this site have no idea how much officiating affects basketball. It's so much different than other sports
It's like you read the first point and ignored the rest of the post. They missed open shots, missed FT's and turned the ball over. 15 turnovers tonight. It was a sloppy game on offense.
Offense is an issue when you miss bunnies and leave points on the line.
I hear ya but Penn State averages 56 points per game. They scored 28 more points than they average. The problem was not with offense. The number of fouls + 3pt % are the most telling factors.
That's loser talk, weak defense and an inability to handle a weak press lost us that game, bad refs just provide a convient excuse.
The refs played a factor in my double post
Cruising the comments, going to great point and click lengths to neg away. Grow up
Up 14 with ten to go? Step on their throat and win by 30. Playing complacent is why they lost. Blaming refs is a copout
He's not blaming the refs. He's saying they were a factor, and they clearly were. It was the most poorly officiated game I've watched all year. It was inconsistent, blatantly biased, and there were far too many fouls called in general. It made the second half unwatchable and handed PSU 8-10 points I don't think Burke saying one sentence about it is a big deal.
I'm not even sure if it's biased, I just think its incompetence.
then he shoulda been slappin back
He would have gotten a flagrant 2 and ejection for slapping back. lol
Can you imagine if the refs called even more fouls tonight? The game was nearly unwatchable as it was as there was a freaking whistle every time down the court.
but probably should've held his tongue on that one. I'd rather him say something like "I didn't lead this team well and that's why we lost" rather than joining in the mgoblog rage-party
Hate to say it, but we're 5-5 ion our last 10, there is something on film that teams are studying to beat us, maybe several things. I don't know if Beilien has adjusted. Seems like it's always about getting back to playing how we played earlier, well, maybe we need to play differently, the truly great coaches recognize what teams are doing differently and make adjustments. I don't see a lot fo adjustments.
Tough to play good d when PSU players can drive the lane and get a foul called every time
The officiating was bad, but complaining about it now does no good.
This is about the time for the players to call a team meeting and get everything hashed out, get everyone on the same page. Bartelstein is the team captain, but I don't know if he's the guy to make that call. Is Burke?
It wasn't the only reason we lost tonight but a big part of it. The officials decided that the game was going to change once Michigan went up 15 with 10 mins left. All of sudden, Penn State was bailed out whenever they needed points with fouls racking up on Michigan. If Penn State drove the lane it was a blocking foul on Michigan. If Michigan drove the lane, it was a charge.
Look at the season stats and compare them to this game.
Michigan is #1 in the NCAA with an average of 12.2 fouls per game. Penn State is 343 (almost last) with an average of 22.5 fouls per game. So...tonight? 21 fouls on Michigan, 17 on Penn State. And they were critical calls that changed the flow of the game and allowed Penn State to claw it's way back in it.
Unfortunately this is what has become of college BB these days. Another example was the complete and utter travesty of what happened in Ames, Iowa on Monday night when Kansas was given gift after gift by the officials who stole the win from Iowa State. Of course, the Big 12 reviewed it and admitted that the officials screwed up, but....well, that can't change the outcome of the game. Sorry.....
The officiating has gotten much worse, with the worst this season. They don't know the difference between a charge and a block to save their life. They seem to want to be a part of the game, when frankly, they should be almost invisible if their doing their jobs correctly.
Sad....very sad what has happened in College BB.
And it's the officiating? Take it for what it is,a loss. Heading into the tourney they will still be a 4 seed at worst.
was a factor. Your turnovers Trey, and your teams terrible defense.
Probably shouldn't hate on Trey for turnovers. Sure, he had a bad game tonight, but he's leading the nation in A/T ratio fergodsakes.
We lost because we don't have this:
Everyone is to blame. Yes maybe the officials didn't give on a couple of calls. But that is not why they lost the game.
How many wide open threes did he drill from the top of the key? I think it at least four of his six makes from deep were straight-on, casual-Sunday-stroll type shots.
JB is a great coach but the one area he lacks is making his teams tough. This bball team cannot take a punch or land a good one. JB shows no real emotion on the sideline either, I'm not saying go all Brian Kelly or Frank Martin, but don't just stand there with your hands crossed. Players feed of your energy! Also, is there no end of game plan? Is he not able to draw up a play that doesn't involve a Burke 3 from the top of the key?
It's only one game, but that is a very bad team we lost too. If he can't get his players up for the next game then I'd say there is a problem.
Tonight was the first time I've ever seen JB scream at one of his players. And by all accounts he's pretty tough off the court. I guess a coach can go all Larry Brown and impose his singular will but usually that has to come from a guy on the team, preferably one on the floor. Michigan doesn't yet have that winning program culture, they don't yet have that swagger, they don't yet have that refuse to lose player to rescue them on a night like tonight.
The good news is that in my opinion that's the next chapter of the program's development. If it's in them this season, which I think it well could be, tonight will be its inspiration. It's up to Morgan, Hardaway and Burke to step up and lead. And I think Beilein could help by shaking up the roster a bit. Start the 5 best defenders, make a statement.
Good god...nice to see how so many have the team's back.
Don't you think we've all earned the right to be a little pissed off? Tonight's performance down the stretch was beyond inexcusable. It was a complete implosion and an utter disaster. They let a team that has no business being on the same court as them storm back in the final minutes, go on a 17-18 point run and beat them. Michigan had no response, and they knew very well what was on the line during this 4-game stretch. Its like they just let it happen. To me, its to so much that we lost. It's the way we lost.
Michigan has problems that opposing teams seem to be able to exploit game after game, and the problems aren't getting any better. Frankly, they look like they're getting worse. Penn State had wide open 3 point shots all night.
We all have this team's back, but what happened tonight was inexcusable. Its pretty black and white.
In my opinion having support is something you earn. Losing a game like that and showing no heart or fire should lose this team fan support. If they don't give a shit, why should we?
UofM just plays soft, if the ref doesn't call it then you have to adapt as a team. The defense is still suspect.
I feel responsible. The first game I watched all season in its entirety was at Ohio State. Second game I watched in its entirety was at Michigan State. When Ohio State played us at Crisler I made sure to leave the bar early (when we were still losing) and that turned out pretty well. When I got to the bar tonight we had a 15 or so point lead and.....yeah.
It's either that or I have absolutely zero effect on the team. But just in case, I'm not watching another game.
Never ever should have made this a game where officiating could've played a factor. I've said this since our IU loss, we're a Sweet Sixteen team at best. No leadership, offense is too reliant on Burke, and on defense Morgan seems to be at times the only one who has a clue where he's suppose to be. We aren't a top team this season, and it's time for everyone to accept that. If you believe we're an elite team you are bound to be greatly disappointed when the season is over.
Playing absolutely horribly was the biggest factor in the loss to PSU...
We should beat PSU if they start the game in the bonus as a handicap... THAT BAD
Im new but Im not new... Registered casue Im tired of looking at ppl complain. We lost, but we didnt lose because our team didnt play to win. Burke is completely correct in what he said. In games against Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, and now Penn St we lost because officials change the course of games with their officiating. Remember Michigan was up 15, then all of a sudden we touch a penn st player and their shooting free throws. no calls, bad calls, or jus plain missed calls always seem to go against us. it is what it is... Players play, the coaches coach, and officials are gonna do what they do. But please dont blame the team for a loss like this. The players didnt play to lose. Sumtimes U jus cant beat the other team and the calls going against U
They don't seem to respond well when an opposing crowd gets rowdy. They get gittery, nervous and they make big mistakes. I am really disapointed in this team, and blaming refs is loser talk. Cry me a river, we fell flat on our face at the end of that game.
GRlll getting owned by marshall on both ends is the consistent problem. I will never understand why he plays near 40 min, especially against psu.
Only if this year's team played with the same passion as last season's team :(
too bad stu or zack couldnt be here just one more year...we badly miss their intensity
"Refs were bad" could be said for a number of our games. At the end of the day you have to play knowing the refs will not help you out. Also the team has no one to blame but themselves for this loss. At the moment they have lost their fire, so to speak. Hopefully they can find it again in the next week and a half or we are in for an early exit in March.
This statement suggests one causal factor - leadership is an issue on this team. A leader incites his team to play through 'bad' officiating, to play as hard as they can in spite of it, not to use it as an excuse. It seems we have one piece to the puzzling debacle that has been February.
gets calls at home. The worst I've seen is at Indiana and Duke, but all teams (M included) get calls at home. You have to be tough enough to overcome, especially to a team with zero wins in conference.
Real reasons we lost: PSU hit five or six threes in the last six minutes or so without missing a damned one. Every time coach sits Burke, the turnovers commence. Then when Burke came back in, he played the #2 spot for several minutes. Why would we do that?
The thing I'm MOST pissed about are all the fuckhead Sparties in the office this morning...I swear they must have been jerking off watching the PSU folks storm the court. Sparties masturbate to Michigan losses...true story.
Here's the thing: If you don't blow a 15 point lead, it won't come down to officiating. We, by our uninspiring play, found ourselves in the position that we needed solid reffing (it was lacking) in order to have a chance at the end of the game. Had we not blown our lead, the officiating would've been irrelevant at the end of the game.
Blowing a 15 point lead requires two things to occur: 1) the leading team has to go cold; 2) the trailing team has to get hot. It's one thing if those two factors happen on their own, that is sports. IMO, Burke's comment indicates that BOTH #'s 1 and 2 above were influenced heavily by the officiating.
This is why I really dislike basketball -- the refs have an inordinate ability (and seeming willingness) to take dictate a game. It's like the "catch up logic" programmed into video games. Every "tough play" you try to pull off is punished, while the opposition gets away with everything. It makes a team, especially a young team, gun shy on defense AND offense. Did y'all see when Coach screamed at Nick? He screamed at him because Nick started to help, but then pulled away. Why? Because he KNEW that he'd get called for the foul and would give the PSU guy a three point opp. Not smart, but what happens to a freshman whose team is on tilt. Conversely, very little PSU did drew similar treatment.
No doubt, Michigan crapped the bed. But, level officiating leaves Michigan in the lead at the final buzzer unequivocally, IMO.
I think it is safe to say the officiating was bad when the same play is a charge on us when we have the ball but a block on us when they have the ball.
Did it cost us the game?
Is that an acceptable excuse?
Of course not. Trey's worse game handling the ball, Albrecht seemed to turn it over more often than he touched it, anyone can hit open threes.
I did not notice horrible calls until the game was close.