Burke, Beilein and the Bigger Picture
Problem is we need guys to stick around for more than a year or two. We may not see this for a while, this team was stacked. If everyone came back we'd be the #1 team next year. But that's how the game is now. I really want to cry right now is that ok?
We don't know who's coming back or leaving yet buddy...
We can take a decent stab at it. Our own guys realized it was their last game together
After coming that close, if it were me, I would definitely have a change of heart. I'm not saying I would definitely stay, but I would have to wait and rethink things. If this one is seething in Burke, he could be back.
Burke is definitely gone, but I could see Hardaway staying now. Everyone else (sans senior bench players) will be back.
I'm just looking at teams like Louisville who have seniors and juniors starting. I'm just upset, it's tough getting this close and realize that most of the pieces won't be back next year.
Tim McCormick said Louisville had one legit NBA player and he was a complete no show tonight. Talent usually wins, it was a very spread out NCAA year (no real powerhouse) and Louisville was the best of the bunch.
I'd rather have 4-5 NBA players and keep reloading when 2 leave early. Key is how Beilen recruits from here. He has two top level players coming in next year to replace most likely Burke and THJ leaving. Can they keep doing that in future classes? So far he has nothing to say to doubt it. The publiclity of this run put Michigan back on the map for all those 13-14-15 year olds who never knew of Michigan has a top program. Also genius was allowing the cameras into the lockerroom so all those same kids can see what a positive man he is and give Michigan a chance. I only wish we got Beilen 5-6 years younger since I think he will have the team in a great place the next 7-8 years.
Beilein said he wouldn't recruit any one and done players unless attending Michigan was their dream right from the get go. Obviously you don't turn down Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker if they call you saying they want to play for your team, but he's not giving them any calls either....
I don't know how highly recruited guys like Siva and Smith were, but Michigan could have those type of guys in Levert, Albrecht and Horford. Program guys who are never going to play in the NBA, but come in and spend 4 or 5 yrs in the program and by their Junior and Senior year end up as quality veteran contributors. Despite this now being his sixth year, Beilein is just now starting to really get hsi recruiting where he wants it.
given the circumstances.
That said, I will also take the frustration of worrying about players leaving early over the frustration of blue-chippers not taking our coaches call.
Sometimes talent leaves
Having guys leave after a year or two is a sign of success at this level. We have guys who will stick it out on this roster. It's almost all good.
But that's not how you get the top talent. The game has changed. If you want to get the best of the best you have to show them you get kids to come in, develop, and "get paid". Of course you want kids to stay 3-4 years but you want 2-3 stars that are going to go early to surround the rest of the cast with. With lesser talent and a bunch of kids that would stay 3-4 years Michigan would not be in this game tonite. Can't have it both ways nowadays.
It is the way the game is now, but it's the same for everyone. Look at next year's class . . . Beilien seems well equipped to keep this program relevant for the foreseeable future even given the current state of CBB.
of a title game loss to a very good team over the frustration of irrelevance
Oh my God, we are Notre Dame.
Help me understand. You prefer a decade of not going to the tournament to a close loss to a good team in the final?
Wow, I really learned something today.
I suppose that Dean Smith just sucked those first 5 times he made the Final Four b/f winning on his 6th trip, and of course awful the 9 times he made the Final Four and lost.
And I guess that Coach K was simply awful the 7 times he made the Final Four and lost, especially the 4 title games he has lost.
Pitino has two titles, while 5 times ended his teams' FF runs with heartbreak and disappointment. Wow, only 2 good tournaments for Pitino. He must be just tormented about the FFs he didn't win.
We won't be back in this position for years.
How do you know that? Do you know what kind of players we're recruiting?
We lose Burke for one, and possibly 4 of 5 starters. And just statistically speaking, we probably won't be back here next year. It's really really difficult to get to the championship game. Not that UM basketball won't be a strong team for the foreseeable future, but I also am not counting on us to get here again either for a while. It's tough to get so close and not have that banner.
Yes, it's hard, but Beilein is a very good tournament coach. He's 15-3 against the spread in tournament games at Michigan and West Virginia. And I don't think we'll lose that many starters. I won't flat-out say we'll be back in the next couple of years, but I do think Beilein can take us to another Final Four at some point. If we lose only Burke, I think we'll be again be a top 5-caliber team next year.
If we only lose Burke, as good as he is, with Albrecht and the recruits coming in, and the maturing of Stauskas, GRIII and McGary, we could be a better team next year.
It is a distinct possibility that McGary and GRIII leave in addition tom THJ. Not saying it will happen, but your naive if you think they aren't going to think hard about it.
I think they'll look into it, but I don't see GRIII or McGary leaving this year. Unless I'm off on my evaluation of NBA teams, it would be hard to see those two guys as immediate or even second-year contributors unless you really think they are capable of playing without a great guard like Burke around.
If we lose 4 of the guys that started the Championship Game, I will crap in my own hand. Tone it down Mr. Doom and Gloom.
WORST case is Trey, Timmy, and GRIII gone after this year. McGary already said he is coming back and Stauskas hasn't even played in the late stages of the last 2 games because his defense and decision making need work. I am hopeful we see GRII back, but guess TH is gone.
McGary backed off the coming back thing. Said he'll make a decision after its over and before he deadline to declare.
Nothing wrong with backing off. People were talking lottery, and you don't just blow that off--but with time, I think his stock will settle a bit and he'll come back.
that would win a $200MM lottery and be primarily bummed that there was a 2nd winning ticket. Enjoy the return to relevance of M basketball and hope for the best in the future.
We are not headed back to irrelevance, but it will be very difficult to get back to a NC game with what we will have returning. Even if we assume the best case scenario.
McGrary is not leaving. He is very dependent on Burke - that was clear tonite. When Burke was out McGrary had little offense. He will make a big leap from freshman to sophmore and then leave next year IMO.
McGrary had 5 friggin games of "stardom." Not 10, not 15, not 20. 5. I get the "draft on potential" but he is an energy player who is developing and had the best point guard in the country feeding him constantly. He has a lot of work to do.
GR3 is also not ready, anytime he went up against a physical big man he got schooled. He doesnt have his own offensive shot - he picks up garbage points (much needed) and has athleticism. Again every guy in the nBA is athletic.
Trey is leaving, he has nothing left to do.
THJ might leave because I think he hit his ceiling. He won't develop much more and I find him to be a borderline NBA player. Very inconsistent on offense, and plenty of guys like him in the NBA sitting as the 9th, 10th, 11th player on a bench. Rodney Stuckey - as poor as he is - is twice the player at this point than THJ.
If THJ and Burke leave you reload with Walton (lets say he is 75% of Trey as a freshman) and Zak Irvin who is probably a slightly better version of GR3, to replace THJ. No massive drop off or anything.
As for the NCAAs the best team can lose in the 3rd or 4th round quite easily - its a crapshoot when you get in. This should be a top 15 team even with losing the starting backcourt and develop into top 10 as the year goes by. Then you just get into the tourney and anyone can win of 15 teams at that point.
I think we could be back here next year.
Mitch, GR3, stauskas (who, after a full offseason, will be better able to match up and create against better defenses), spike, horford, and some pretty damn well-regarded incoming freshmen. Burke is irreplaceable, and THJ came up big at times, but every team loses key players. The trick is how well you reload. I think that we are reloading just fine.
I'm very proud of what this team was able to accomplish, especially with such youth. I'm also so happy Beilein is the coach, and I expect UM to be one of the top teams in the B1G for years to come.
But the other reality is that it is very hard to get to a championship game; it's been
discussed at length here that the format of the whole tournament results in crazy things. We had an 'all eggs in the basket' year, and we came up short. That's a tough pill to swallow. And we also are guaranteed to lose the best player in basketball, and the distinct possibility of losing 4 of our 5 starters. To not have that banner to hang after getting so close, as well as the prospect of almost starting over again, is really, really, difficult to me.
We made it through huge stretches of the tourney with Burke doing nada. I'm not sure who will go pro after this year. Burks is sure-fire but who else? Maybe THJ...maybe McGary but I kind of doubt either.
We will be in the discussion for the unforeseeable future. That's all you can ask at this level.
Maybe the 1% of Burke's return grows to 2% because he's pissed and got so close.
But in the end, he's player of the year in EVERYTHING and his stock isn't going to get higher in a weak draft.
If he comes back, he's just pissed the fuck off and he's on a mission. Same with THJ.
Not saying that we're better without either, but if they do come back with that mentality, it's going to be frustrating watching them jack up shots from everywhere at times...if one, the other or both decide to come back, hopefully it's for the TEAM.
McGary and GRIII easily come back unless there's some family issue we don't know about.
Morgan will have to decide if he wants another go, may be too much work for 10 minutes a game.
It doesn't matter if THJ is pissed the fuck off or not. He's just not that good. Zak Irvin will be much better than him.
You dont get a "Michigan" tattoo across your chest being raised in Columbus for no reason....The man clearly LOVES U of M. remember, Taylor Lewan was gone too...
Nice run boys!
Right when it looks like we're gonna get a national championship, we just barely miss
- 2006 Football - Barely lose in the #1-2 game
- 2011 Hockey - Lose in OT of the national championship
- 2013 Basketball - Squander large lead, get pretty much hosed by refs and lose a close one
Being a sports fan can be brutal. Proud we got this far though
Look at any champion, in any sport, and they've had lots of disappointments.
Can't get to the final and play against a bad team. When it hurts, just give thanks that we are relevant again
Yeah. This was Louisville's third Final Four under Pitino. He lost in the semis the other two times. Calipari likewise had lost in the Final Four three times before he finally won last year. It's hard to win it all in any given year, and it seems like most coaches who do are ones who have been there before (and failed).
Examples could be multiplied.
Dean Smith went to 11 Final Fours, yet won the title only ("only") 2x. His first title came on his 7th Final Four trip.
Coach K has a staggering 4 titles - and has also lost the title game 4 times. Also, he did not win his 1st title until his 5th Final Four. Total Final Fours: 11
Bobby Bowden: 2 Nat'l titles - after Wide Right I and II.
Lots of heartbreak there. But would it be better to be irrelevant? Rhetorical question.
If you have a favorite team, any sport, and they give you consistent reason to cheer for them, it's reason to be thankful.
Great team, great coach, great season, great tourney, great future.
... and he had one championship before now.
Even the very best teams struggle to win 6 games in a row against increasingly good competition.
We had a great season and came within a few bounces of a national title. That's better than every other team but one, and it's not nothing. If we can keep the talent pipeline flowing, we have a staff than can coach 'em up; that will keep us winning.
Of those, this is by far the disappointment that is the least soul-crushing; we have it pretty good for a football-first school that could barely field a competent basketball team for years. Schools with larger, more rabid basketball fan bases have endured much greater proportional heartbreak, especially if you look at the whole of the last 25 years. I'm thankful they got so good so quick.
Congrats to a great team and coach. The future looks bright for Michigan basketball my friends.
If Walton is as good as advertised, we can make another deep run next year. As long as we can get PGs to stick around two years, we'll win one of these under Beilein.
Obviously a win is preferred but the last few games have been icing on the cake.
It's wishful thinking that Trey would decide to stay, wanting another chance at a national championship but we have a pretty good team even if Trey and THJ depart early.
After this loss is grieved for a bit, looking back I think most would agree this has been a great season, even with the ups and downs, and that there's a pretty good future ahead.
They only 2 I'm worried about leaving is Burke and GRIII! NBA drafts talent and potential so Hardaway is a year away!
or just didn't watch much this season?
Probably best to ignore him
Even he wouldn't fuck him. Nobody would fuck him. What an asshole.
Don't feed the troll please
You're a jackass that literally made a profile 30 minutes ago for the sole-purpose of trolling this blog. Get your ass off this site.
I admire your little brother-ness. Or maybe you aren't a Sparty, since Refs are the ONLY reason MSU ever loses at Football or Basketball. Go to bed kid.
Beilein is a very good coach, but his end of the game strategy was really bad tonight. He'll get hammered for sitting Burke so long, but his other mistakes were more costly.
I'm proud that he represents Michigan, but he wasn't up to the task tonight. He's a very good coach. He got beat by a better one.
I think it would have been stupid to put Burke back in and risk either a third foul or tentative defense.
Its one thing ro sit him a few minutes but to sit the best player in the country for 12 min in the 1H is just plain dumb. JB will regret that decision the rest of his career. I can't imagine kobe or jordan sitting for such a stretch under any circumstances.
Burke being out worked just fine until Louisville went on a 14-point swing with a single player hitting multiple threes in the span of a few minutes. Can't pin Beilein for that, I'd rather have Trey in at the end of the game. He barely was EVEN AFTER SITTING 14 MINS. Really the only complete mental lapse was when no one would foul in the last ~40 seconds, and I'm sure Beilein was screaming his head off for someone to foul when Burke couldn't.
Beilein seems be uncanny developing point guards...Morris, Burke.
Look at Albrecht...sure, nothing in 2nd half tonight, but many good moments in the tourney. I feel comfortable when he handles the ball.
We are a place to go for great PG's & shooters...that bodes well for the future
We did win the Big Ten last year...
And Indiana's Mr. Basketball and a top 50 PG are coming in. Along with a stretch four that's a little bigger than GR3.
Step away from the ledge, sir.
Not back? After a close loss IN THE FINAL?
OSU fan or MSU fan? Either way we got farther than you.
Now we know why you want Burke to go pro.
I want to be optimistic, but even when your team is completely loaded it can be difficult making it to the final 4 let alone the title game. I really hope we are back in the mix next year, but it's also extremely demoralizing knowing that we were so close, up 12 in the first half, and let the National Title slip away. This one hurts.
Was my post really that bad? Sorry if I offended anyone.
I think the mobile app user posts sometimes don't show up. Don't think they were talking to you like that.
Also, just got to keep working and getting better. Really proud of the team.
Tough loss, great season.
Your post isn't the one getting shit on. "Refs don't lose games" is being a massive troll from Spartyland.
And your lost. Go back to east Lansing. I hear its warm there with the couch fires and all.
BB is not like football, you have random teams making it to the final every year, its actually pretty cool, where as in football you have sec only.. My point is that we had a great season and i really wanted this game because the chances of us going again are very slim.. I hope coach Belien keeps the consistency and we go to the tournament every year .. Go Blue
Re-calibrating targets: B1G Championships locked on.
Sure we're going to take a step back next year, but if we contend for the B1G again, make it to a Sweet Sixteen, we can definitely say we're back.
The shock waves of this run might not be felt for another 2-3 years when the recruits roll in but it'll come.
Ur mom suck dick so whats ur point
HEY SHE IS A NICE LADY!
(I realize the response is to a now-deleted post and not my original)
U ski in jeans
I will neither confirm nor deny that statement
Burke really impressed me tonight...talk about taking a beating and being tough.....he personified both. I think his draft stock came out fine after tonight.
I thought Beilein could have called a timeout near the end of the first half when Louisville started hitting threes, and I thought Louisville made better adjustments going into the second half, but I'm very happy Coach B is the captain of the ship. This program has come so far in such a short time. Two years ago, we were happy to get into the tournament; tonight we were in the championship game.
Depending upon who stays, we could be a very good team again next year....it will be a while until another Trey Burke shows up, but so many wonderful memories.
Hard, hard loss, but this team will go down in history as one of the best ever. it has been an awesome run and I thank them for bringing Michigan basketball back to the top.
In other news. Huge fire on White street on the walk home from Chrysler...
Goddammit. To riot when you win is lame as hell, but when you riot after a loss, you just look like a Sparty fan.
*Best in Michigan history*
Yeah, burning couches is not a good look period, but particularly so after a loss.
Crisler. Not Chrysler.
Says an inbred
has been poor from an otherwise excellent coaching staff. They have to foul faster, it can't take 8 seconds to burn a foul and get into the bonus. And you can't put 2 guys with 4 fouls out there to give the second foul. I love the coaching staff an all, but this is a recurring problem that I find baffling.
Ur mom is overrated too but she takes it
You never know.... If I remember correctly, Burke said that winning a national championship would make his decision much easier. I think winning tonight would have given him some closure. But being so close to winning it all and coming up just short may just put a chip on his shoulder. I'm not saying that he will or even should come back, but just maybe......
Did I really get down voted for that??
...but I really only see Burke as the only sure-fire NBA guy on this team. Hardaway will get there, but another year of seasoning would help him out. GRIII is athletic, but seems to score mostly on the business end of an alley-opp or an Oreb. McGary's a great story, but he's had 5 great games in his college career.
Additionally for THJ & GRIII, NBA money's not nearly as big of an issue since they were born into NBA money already. Momma don't need a new house.
Still, even if these guys all come back, missing Burke will create huge problems for this team next year. Spike was tremendous in the first half and has certainly had his moments, but no one made this offense go the way Burke did. Spike has scored well at times, but I haven't seen him run the offense and get the other four on the floor involved the way a point guard needs to.
I hope I'm wrong, but I see Burke as the only one leaving but the team still taking a step backwards.
If Derrick Walton lives up to the hype, he could come in at the PG and do a great job.
"Refs Don't lose games" is a massive troll that you can only see on the mobile app. I'm going to guess it's an RCMBer.
The growth and development of this team thoughout the year and particularly in the big dance proves to me that we're just getting into the exciting years. In typical fashion with teams near the top, we might struggle to actually close the deal but I suspect it drops sooner ot later. This was a magical run but we could easily have another in a year or two as Albrecht, Stauskas, GRIII, LeVert, and McGary continue to develop.
We're going to lose some guys to the NBA along the way, but we'll keep restocking. It's the problem you want to have. Beilein has now truly proved himself to be the kind of coach who can recruit and develop the kids with the talent, character, and academics to proudly represent the University of Michigan on the national stage. No reason to believe that's going to stop now.
Michigan Basketball is not "back". There is no back until more banners are earned and even then it only lasts for a moment. You always have to keep climbing just to stay in place. But I don't think we could have a much better coach, or man, leading the way.
Thanks Robinson, Albrecht, Burke, McGary, Akunne, Hardaway, Stauskas, Vogrich, Horford, Bartelstein, McLimans, LeVert, Person, Bielfeldt, and Morgan for an incredible season! Happy Trails and best wishes to all who move on! As for the rest of you, Those Who Stay Will Be Champions.
It wasn't that long ago that we were glad just to make the tournament. Now we're frustrated that Michigan isn't national champs.
Wow, that happened quick.
We were warned about this by the Kansas fans. They've got themselves in a box where it's National Championship or nothing. They can never be happy.
Well said. Wish there was a like button
I know some people have mentioned this, but don't we have a top-notch recruiting class coming in with practically two Mr. Basketballs on it? Look at what we did with THIS freshman class! If even a good chunk of them stay, with our new freshmen, we'll be WONDERFUL! Don't sleep on Caris either! Beilein has gone out of his way to say how good he is and I believe we can all agree on his talent scouting abilities. I'm not worried. Good things loom. Go Blue!
Well said, I agree
yeah the recruiting class is great and we could have a better team next year but it takes a lot of luck to get to the championship game, so who knows when well get this far again. could be next year, could be 25 years from now
One interesting item of note:
Next year's team is Team 97.
I hear that's a pretty good number for our program.
On a positive note, Burke said winning the championship would make it easier to leave, so having lost we gain a few % points and maybe he'll pull a Lewan. Basketball careers last a lot longer than football ones so its not like he needs to get there in a hurry.
Has a player ever stayed after winning a spate of POY awards?
Not that I can remember. All of the POY winners jumped to the next level.
Obviously the program is in a better place, but there's a bit of lightning-in-a-bottle to this season. No one ever expected Burke to develop into the POY when he came here, including the staff. If he alone leaves, we'll still be very good, but not a favorite to win it all.
It's nice to have two excellent freshmen coming in, but they don't replace Burke, and certainly not Burke plus. We'd have a shot at being top 20, but not elite.
You are discounting the possibility that other players develop. Also, this is college basketball - every good team is going to lose some key guys.