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Burgeoning Wolverine Star on the inverted veer (vs UMass)

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September 18th, 2012 at 10:54 AM
#1
dnak438
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Joined: 08/12/2009
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Burgeoning Wolverine Star on the inverted veer (vs UMass)

Burgeoning Wolverine Star has a picture-page breakdown of this inverted veer against UMass (LINK to full article):

 

His conclusions? 

The way Michigan ran this play last year wasn't really an option at all. If you're blocking the player that you're supposed to be optioning, your QB is just taking longer to hand the ball off/run. This schematic tweak against UMass hopefully signals a change in philosophy where the offense will block defenders by optioning them.
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September 18th, 2012 at 11:28 AM
#2
Lazer with a Z
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Not True

That isn't true. This is the exact same way they ran it last year. Heck, Brian did a post on it. http://mgoblog.com/category/tags/inverted-veer-option

It's blocked the same as the Power Play that Hoke loves so much. , only in the Power, the Fullback/ H Back kicks the end out. In this case, they option him. If he chases the RB, Denard keeps. If he crashes, Denard hands off. Denard got a significant chunk of his rushing yards on this play last year. 

 

Here it is against Purdue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxI-A5Wwzs8

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September 18th, 2012 at 2:00 PM
(Reply to #2) #3
dnak438
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OK, but you are in agreement with BWS then

Who says that

(1) At times last year (against Ohio) they blocked the player that other spreads would option (and against Bama)

(2) Against UMass, they left the DE unblocked and optioned him

(3) Hopefully, we will see more of (2) than of (1).

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September 18th, 2012 at 5:36 PM
(Reply to #12) #4
Lazer with a Z
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Yeah.

But I'm willing to bet that if they ran that play and the backside guard blocked the end it was:

A: Not the inverted veer.

or....

B: The guard screwed up. 

or...

C: It was within his blocking rules. Maybe if he sees the front side number of the DE, he'w supposed to get him. I obviously don't know what they teach, but it's possible. 

In the example they show, the end is slow playing the mesh, and the linebacker is taking his sweet time, so I wasn't the worst decision ever to block him. 

Did they run the inverted veer against Alabama? If they did, they didn't have much success. 

The problem with running it this year is that I'm not sure Barnum is quick enough to get up and around on the play side linebacker. 

 

EDIT: Upon further review, I think Schofield does block the right guy in that play, and I don't think it's inverted veer. It's the powerplay with the H back kicking out the playside DE. They aren't reading him in this play. The back side guard in power or veer, typically has the playside inside linebacker. In this case, he is widened out a bit, so he gets him. 

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September 18th, 2012 at 11:29 AM
#5
ChiBlueBoy
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Appreciate the analysis

One nit-pick: I think he's being overly critical. I agree that it's good that the pulling OL isn't blocking the "optioned" end. On this screenshot, taking on the LB is reasonable. The safety is 12 yards off the line, and I'll take Dilithium v. Safety one-on-one 12 yards downfield every time. Might as well clean up the free LB, not knowing which way Denard wants to cut.

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September 18th, 2012 at 12:18 PM
(Reply to #3) #6
reshp1
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I thought that too, plus

I thought that too, plus there's no guarantee Barnum can get out there on the safety before Denard gets there. I think Brian mentioned this to some degree but I think Hoke and Borges's philosophy on run blocking is to put priority on getting hats on Dline and linebackers, getting the 5-6 yards everytime vs a chance for big plays some of the time.

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September 18th, 2012 at 12:53 PM
(Reply to #3) #7
LSAClassOf2000
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Thought This As Well

It might be just me, but I thought that one thing was critiqued that actually went right in the beginning of the play anyway. The DE committed, which is exactly what should have happened and Denard seemed to get away cleanly (rather than "scraping by", or at least it looks pretty clean in motion rather than still shots), and you say, taking on the LB is probably a good idea here since one of the normal responses to this play is the "scrape exchange", I believe, which employs LBs to confuse the read. I wouldn't think UMass has the LB corps to pull that answer off though.

One item note as well, for general consumption - we run this play with some success. As examples, we ran it 7 times in the Ohio game last year for 84 yards, and 4 times against Purdue for 54 yards. I don't remember seeing it more than once or twice in the Nebraska and Illinois games, but in the Purdue and Ohio games alone, we averaged 12.5 yards on the inverted veer.

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September 18th, 2012 at 12:29 PM
#8
ken725
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After all this time, I'm

After all this time, I'm still not 100% sure what an inverted veer is. 

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September 18th, 2012 at 1:37 PM
(Reply to #5) #9
Allin4Blue
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The "Veer" is what Air Force

The "Veer" is what Air Force uses where the QB "opens" his shoulders for the running back to be optioned on the same path as the QBs shoulders.  This is typically with one shoulder pointing to the LOS and the other away from it.  Denard has his shoulders parallel to the LOS in the option read, thus is inverted. The QB has the inside path and the RB has the outside path.

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September 18th, 2012 at 1:26 PM
(Reply to #5) #10
LB
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The Inverted Veer just

flips the QB and RB, QB closer to the LOS, RB back. The Veer is the other way, RB closer to the LOS, QB back.

 

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September 18th, 2012 at 1:39 PM
(Reply to #9) #11
Allin4Blue
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It has nothing to do with who

It has nothing to do with who is closer to the line of scrimmage. Read above...

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September 18th, 2012 at 1:54 PM
(Reply to #5) #12
dnak438
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This is the clearest explanation I've found:

http://smartfootball.com/defending-spread/tcus-inverted-veer-option

In the typical veer play from a spread set, the line blocks down and double-teams the defensive linemen on up to the linebackers. They leave the defensive end unblocked (except when they run midline veer, in which case it is a defensive tackle) and read that man. If he steps down for the runningback, the QB just gives the ball and steps around him. It is just the old first-read of the triple option adapted for spread sets.

In the inverted veer:

The runningback runs a sweep or outside zone action laterally. If the defensive end takes him, then the quarterback shoots up inside the defensive end. If the defensive end sits for the QB, the runner should be able to hit the corner. Remember, the defensive end is often the hardest guy to block, and especially so when you want to “reach” him to seal the corner.

 

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September 18th, 2012 at 5:56 PM
(Reply to #11) #13
Lazer with a Z
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This IS Inverted Veer.

This is why the play from the Ohio game mentioned in the article is not  the inverted veer at all. It is power. The main difference being that the end is getting kicked by the H back/ Full back, and is not being optioned. 

Power is typically run with two backs and the inverted veer with one. 

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September 18th, 2012 at 3:30 PM
(Reply to #5) #14
joeyb
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A veer is when you option off

A veer is when you option off a lineman on the strong side of the play. Inside Veer means you option off the first guy over or past the guard (DT). Outside Veer means you option off the second guy (DE). In either case, the RB is running into the line and the QB has the option to pull and run parallel to the line.

An inverted veer is the opposite of the Outside Veer where the RB runs parallel to the line and the QB has the option to pull and run into the line. The strong side is the side that the RB is running toward. You can see in the video that the DE on the strong side goes unblocked. Denard has the option to give the ball to the RB and let him out-run the DE to the outside or take the ball and run into the hole that the OL opens up for him. The DE is trying to be in the middle of everything, so Denard keeps it and runs toward the line instead of giving it to the RB and hoping he can make it back to the line.

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September 18th, 2012 at 12:30 PM
#15
Bronco648
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I liked seeing Denard use D.

I liked seeing Denard use D. Funch as a "pick" at the second level. With improved blocking technique, D. Funch will be a major headache for the opposing defenses.

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