So there are conflicting reports on the different sites. However TomVH thinks there could be a commitment in the near future.
Information is paywalled on ESPNinsider
I find it odd that Penn State didn't even offer him, a Pa kid.
They recruit nationally...
He's too old for the Penn State's coaches' liking.
I mean WOW.
for a long time.
As they say, comedy is just tragedy + time.
There's no such thing as too soon.
said that he would have been offered if he visited the school, but he decided not to, so they didn't offer him.
Ace changed his crystal ball prediction on 247 to Michigan this morning.
Steve Lorenz and a couple others, including an OSU inisder, picked Michigan today for Artavis Scott's crystal ball (I think that's how you refer to it). Might be some new news in his recruitment as well.
Scott's coming for the BBQ, and it sounded like he wasn't ready for a quick decision.
He would be a great commitment. He's a big time receiver.
He's Mason Cole's teammate isn't heM
Yes, Artavis Scott and George Campbell are Mason Cole's teammates.
A man knows.
Drinking whiskey and talking football/recruiting with an Ohio State fan is not a good idea.
He doesn't even know who David Perkins is if that tells you what I'm working with.
Hide your coolers.
He's probably never even heard of Giovanni Strassini.
He does know Steve Belisarri - if that goes for anything.
He's actually not a bad guy, it's just unfortunate he's a former OSU player. But I do have to say he's no where near the douche most of their fans are.
He does know Steve Belisarri - if that goes for anything.
I suggest you all google David Perkins. I got a laugh.
Many different choices. Only one kind of OSU fan.
Jack Daniels TN whiskey.
Then went to Crown Royal.
They really push those at you in TN.
... your kindergarteners & hammers
Or is this speaking of a specific player?
He's referencing a certain player.
I obviously was implying that I wanted to know WHICH specific player, but now I know from the rest of the comments. Thanks I guess...
The place I got the information on which specific player is paywalled, and since I hadn't seen any information on which specific player on a public forum, I didn't say his name. I figured you had gathered the information as to which player it was referring to by everyone else that was handing out Tom's paywalled info on this site, so my answer was of the "smartass" variety.
For all wondering, the reference is from Tom VanHaaren saying that Winovich said he will "possibly make his decision tomorrow"...he later said that he has heard good things for Michigan
I've heard "good things" for Pitt, Ohio State, and Michigan. Dude sure can keep a secret
Tweets are one thing but that's direct ESPN message board info your repeating. It's frowned upon. Just sayin'.
if its only $4 per year
If it's only $4/year, pony up.
it is really paywalled.
who postd a link to the great deal here, i ponied
Maybe not for you Mr. Burns, but the rest of us are working folk. Snob.
It's a low wall at ESPN
Yeah, I let my excitement over a possible commit get the best of me and forgot about that haha. Thanks for the reminder for the future
so easy to ask forgiveness and plead ignorance.
Damn, chill out! Not everyone posts things to spite ESPN and says "Ha!" Come on now.
Not frowned on by Brian.
Well, you could argue that the subscription fee gets you access to the information that those who don't subscribe can't get, in which I would agree that it should be frowned upon to share it, but you could also argue that the subscription fee gets you the information sooner than those who don't subscribe, in which case I disagree that it should be frowned upon to share it.
I know Tom VH is pretty "chill" when it comes to sharing his information and it a pretty down-to-earth guy. I guess sharing what he said is frowned upon and is breaking some type of rule. That being said, there's not a whole lot of other ways to re-word what Tom said in that thread.
And 4 dollars a year...that's pretty dang cheap. I'm a sucker and paid the 40 bucks for a year subscription a few months ago, but I still think it's well worth-it as I read a lot of the other insider info on espn.com
I understand that he my frown upon it, but the point I was getting at was whether there is actually something wrong with doing it. In the first instance there is, but in the second there isn't.
it's 2013. We don't pay for stuff like this anymore. We pay for the internet, that's all. Movies, music, porn, news.... it's all free.
Pretty much all you need. And soon I'll be able to 3-d print my own pizza.
If there are certain things that Tom wants to be kept on the board, he will be sure to say "this can't leave this board."
I'll keep my ear to the ground
Per the Twitterz, Chase Winovich just canceled his visit to Ohio, so yeah.
Great news...unless it's PItt.
It's still not bad news.
you follow the front page of reddit. Now how is this at all relevant to anything?
My money's on Josh Garnett.
Second guess would probably be Alex Kozan.
RoJo! Come on down!
If I'm completely wrong, I'll throw in Yuri Wright as my backup backup.
What is the conflicting report?
That he's not.
Saying o$u? Seriously. It makes us look as shitty as they do.
Allow me to direct your attention to the board FAQ.
and if you're too insensed to follow the link I'll just blockquote it for you:
How can I avoid downvotes? Don't be redundant. Don't use stupid nicknames like O$U. Spell things correctly. Don't post useless replies like "I agree" and whatnot.
This is from Brian Cook, you know, the guy who owns and operates Mgoblog. So please play nice and follow the rules.
+1 for pointing out that lots of people around here call Ohio State "Ohio."
is a heck of a lot different than O$U, U$C, Spartina, Notre Lame, etc.
Yet still annoying.
Rationalization: an unconscious defense mechanism in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are logically justified and explained in a rational or logical manner in order to avoid any true explanation, and are made consciously tolerable - or even admirable and superior - by plausible means.
That block quote describes a few ways to avoid getting downvoted. It doesn't prohibit anything.
I believe they call themselves ohio.
Their cheer is ohio.
The band spells ohio.
If it is a way they refer to themselves frequently, how is it an unaccepted nickname.
Because it's confusing when there's another fairly prominent school also referred to as "Ohio" because their actual school name is "Ohio."
It's the same reason I hope people stop using "DG" to reference Michigan players, because it could allude to Devin Gardner or Derrick Green.
There is another major program referred to as "Ohio"? Do you consider Central Michigan a fairly prominent program as well?
major =! fairly prominent
And of course, that same school beat Michigan in the NCAA Tourney, and the football program went 9-4 with a bowl game win during the 2012.
Agreed. This happened the other day regarding that QB who transferred to Toledo. The OP said that in addition to Toledo, he also had offers from Illinois and Ohio. That was confusing, because to me, Ohio university fits that better than OSU.
Butler beat a lot of teams in the tourney a few years ago as well and OHIO (or whichever way we spell it here) plays in the MAC. Neither is a major program (or even "prominent" in most people's minds'). How often does anyone ever refer to OHIO in regards to anything? Not very. I think it's safe to assume if you see Ohio on this board, it's probably refering to OSU.
I only argue this because of how irritating it is when some people get SO upset by the Ohio reference, yet hypocritically refer to Michigan State as "Little Brother". I assume that these are the same people that were offended by 11 Warriors jabs to Al Borgeous referencing his obesity because it's "too easy" a target, but have no problem bringing up couch burning in East Lansing every five minutes. Somehow one juvenile reference is acceptable but the other deserves a soap box, pontification and judgement. It's a ridiculous double standard. I've never used $$$ or even smiley faces in my posts and don't ever plan to. HOWEVER, it's the hypocrisy of this situation that bothers me. Hoke says Ohio and I LOVE it because it's so simple and effortless and yet infuriates so many Ohio State fans. The Ohio reference isn't trashy, it's a backhanded jab.
Regardless, if MGOBLOG is too good for one childish and potentially offensive reference to another school, then by golly, they ALL should be banned from this board.
My rant is now over.
If your argument is that the use of "Little Brother" should be stopped along with "Ohio," then I'm all for it. You won't find me making references to Spartina, Little Brother, O$U, etc. They're all somewhat childish or, in the case of "Ohio," misleading. As soon as Mike Hart called Michigan State "Little Brother," I was one of the ones suggesting that he should keep his mouth shut and not provide bulletin board material.
If you want to criticize the hypocrites, go for it. I'm not one of them. I'm looking for clarity, which is why I also mentioned the DG (Devin Gardner/Derrick Green) thing.
1) Despite his record against them, I don't disagree regarding Hart's comments.
2) I enjoy the Ohio reference and I'm not ashamed of it. I don't think the MAC school is brought up enough to where there is any real problem with confusion. It happens once in a while, but it seems that that realistically, if MAC Ohio is in the running for something, Ohio State would not be interested. Regardless,
3) If you're most interested in clarity, then I'm all in. I would have no problem doing away with any and all disparaging references to other schools as I think it would be a step in the right direction regarding content in general.
4) I have no problem with dick and fart jokes.
Does Central call themselves "Michigan" at any point?
Manus is calling for clarity. "Central" isn't clear, nor is "Michigan." Unless, of course, you have been paying attention. In that case, though, it is pretty clear what is meant when people refer to "Ohio."
It's clear what people mean when they say "Ohio" except when it's not.
Also, the moon is made of green cheese or it isn't.
Same is true of "Michigan" or "Central" or "Miami."
I think we have, what, one case of understandable confusion in two-plus years? That's less than the confusion over "Miami" (though more than the confusion over "Central").
Those who wish to annoy the Buckeyes while avoiding the "scUM"-style approach can avoid confusion by referring to "Ohio" and "Ohio (NTO)." I think most people here will generally understand that a refernce to "Ohio" is a reference to the school that spells "Ohio" in scrpt with their band, there at Ohio Stadium.
If it confuses you, you only need to ask.
Exactly. It is as annoying to say "Ohio" as it is to say "Miami." There are two fairly prominant Miamis, and they should never be referred to as merely "Miami." The name belittles them, even if they bcall themselves "Miami." We are bigger men than they are.
yes, it does.
It's Winovich, he'll be deciding tomorrow. You can read into him cancelling his Ohio visit as either positve or negative.
I was buckled up for the 9th inning in the tigers game. Valverde didn't disapoint.
Welp, the rest of the B1G is F'd
...I need a racing harness for this recruiting class!
I totally agree 110%
EDIT: I claim shenanigans - the post I had responded to is no longer there, rendering my reply off-topic
His class this year is really sub-Urban. BOOM!
He's got more dogs than Oscar Meyer.
We're gonna beat his team so bad he won't be able to get a job in URBANa.
why is Winovich rated so low on the recruiting sites if he's being hit up hard by the two big Midwestern powers, who could have a good shot at anyone they want, so must think well of him?
Because he hasn't committed to Michigan yet. Once he commits he will gain points and stars because the majority of subscribers to the recruiting sites are Michigan fans. Hence their good recruiting classes.
You've got that backwards, once he commits to Michigan he will be considered a 1 star recruit because all of our commits are suddenly subpar once they've committed to us.
3 star just seems low compared to all the 4/5 stars Michigan has been getting these past 6 months.
Because he's 215 lbs at a position where he would need to be 240 to play. Not everyone can maintain their athleticism after putting on weight, so there's a bit of a risk. Plus he doesn't seem like the type to go to a bunch of camps, so there is only his HS tapes. If his senior tape is better he may get bumped up.
your statement is correct...
Anymore white Linebackers we are going to be Peeeeennnnnnn Sttttttaaatttteeeeeee.
Come to Pennnnnnn Staaaaaaaa
I don't care if JoPa turned out to be a fraud, that was freaking hilarious everytime I saw that commercial and would laugh out loud just about everytime.
The use of multiple e's in "Penn" makes that statement kind of awkward...
3 predictions for M today including 2 in the last few hours
I'm going to go out on a limb and say Winovich told someone he might commit to Michigan tomorrow
It sounds more like (a) people have thought it to be a MIchigan/OSU battle, and (b) now it sounds like a Michigan/Pitt battle, so the safer bet is Michigan. From what I've heard it doesn't sound necessarily like these new predictions are because of super-secret insider info.
So what do we make of TomVH thinking there will be a commitment soon? He's usually right on the money
From what I can gather, it sounds like there could be a commitment soon (possibly tomorrow), but that no one is exactly sure who he'll choose. People are moving their Crystal Ball picks away from OSU to his other presumed leader (until recently, at least), Michigan, because it's probably either MIchigan or Pitt.
I love that the experts all get to change their predictions hours before an announcenment, thus making themselves look brilliant and plugged in. why not wait for the last two minutes, when Gardner is kneeling out the clock, and telling your friend that you think Michigan's going to pull this one out?
To be fair, if a recruit has been quiet or truly undecided about his commitment up to that point, and that's when he actually releases some telltale info, then said info actually does become known to the "experts" and only a few others, doesn't that make them "plugged in"? Or at least more plugged in than most?
You're missing the point. They do this for all the recruits. The only way anyone gets it wrong is if a kid commits out of the blue, like Bars did. That will likely be the only smear on Ace's list. (Not to pick on Ace; he's just one of the predictors involved.) And no, if you change your prediction in the last day before the recruit commits, it doesn't make you're "plugged in." It means you learned something right about the same time everyone else did.
I guess I was speaking for those like myself, as I only read this board and try to absorb what's posted here.
So your main complaint is that the recruiting guys are imposters to some degree? Do they come across as know-it-alls or experts, acting as if they knew all along and saying "this is why you should pay for my info"? If so, then I'm totally with you. If not, then maybe they're just trying to keep their readers up to date?
You could say it's also a way of tipping the decision, which most people on this board think is stealing the kid's moment.
I read that yesterday too. Pretty funny in that the staff guy over there says, Buckeyes not going after Hand because he doesn't fit in with the program. Then says, Buckeyes would take Hand if he wanted to commit. ??? Buckeye logic is ineffable.
Ohio State will not make up any ground with Hand this weekend and part of the reason is they don't really care to. He's a great player and a really awesome kid, but not the right fit for their program.
I will state, unequivocally, that Ohio State will not making much an effort to lure Hand back "into the mix." As good a player as he is, as good a kid as he is; there is a certain type of person and personality that this staff is looking for and DaShawn does not have it.
...there is a certain type of person and personality that this [Ohio State] staff is looking for and DaShawn does not have it.
I would really love to know what the heck that is supposed to mean. Hand doesn't fit the rigorous personality standards of a program that recruits players like Clarett and Pryor?
Je ne sais quoi?
Will take tats and cash?
I don't get it either. That quote is from the 11W recruiting insider guy so . . . .
Too funny. I think your proactive stance should be lauded.
No but seriously, tats and cash is a real thing, if you recall.
Perhaps they just realize that he's too smart for them.
Maybe "he doesn't fit" is a compliment to him.
They are not in their recruiting roundup for the week. If that was where they were, I would imagine someone said something about OBVIOUS sour grapes and assmonkey writing and an article got edited after it was posted.
that is just so absurd. i mean, it really highlights the differences between this board and that board. if some dude in Hand's position visited michigan we would say "love to have this guy, but unfortunately looks like he's going elsewhere". the fact that it came from a staff guy is even more embarrassing.
"As gorgeous a model as she is, as good a kid as she is; there is a certain type of looks and personality that this staff is looking for and Kate Upton does not have it."
Seems more likely at this point that he's going to Pitt.
So what sites are saying this conflicting information about Winnovich committing tomorrow? Is it The Beaver?
on the Beaver?
I think I was a little hard on The Beaver, so was Eddie Haskell, Wally, and Miss Cleaver. This guy keeps screaming he's paranoid, quick someone get his ass another steroid.
Mark May will give you inspiring pep-talks before each game.
I don't understand the draw. It's strange to see top guys go to Ole Miss but at least it's got the Grove and a lot of good looking co-eds. What's the draw for Pitt? They're not good and they play in front of a quarter-full Heinz field. They're like a microcosm of "Mississippi is a black hole. Nothing escapes"
Beeeecause...you're from Western Pennsylvania? Because Pitt has lots of players in the pros? Because you get to play/practice/train in the same stadium and facilities as the Steelers? Because you like the city of Pittsburgh? Because they also offer a good education?
But it has been pretty much dormant for over 20 years.I think part of it was the transition to the Big East. I think the loss of their on-campus stadium hurt their program. Sharing facilities with a pro team is usually not a recipe for success in most college programs. I can't think of many schools that have been successful without on-campus facilities in football or basketball.
I think moving to the ACC and the return of the Pitt-PSU rivalry is going to give their program a boost as Pitt will start playing in some higher profile games.
The lack of an on-campus stadium is a symptom of a school that isn't committed to high-level football. Miami has the same problem. They should be really good, but they just aren't doing the things they need to do to succeed.
Besides, they haven't been consistently good since Dan Marino left in 1982, and I'll bet half of today's recruits have never heard of him.
Craig "Ironhead" Heyward
They have solid history of RBs, WRs and lineman they have put into the NFL. Strange stat: Pittsburgh has the 3rd most Pro Football HOF players behind only Notre Dame and USC.
11 "high profile players" in 30 years is how you define a "decent amount"? I also question how you define high profile player (Antonio Bryant, Ruben Brown, Dion Lewis). Good players, sure. High profile, though?
They have had other players play in the NFL. The point was they have had a decent amount of good players in the last 30 years despite not being very good on the football field. 10+ players of that caliber over the last 30 years is actually not bad.
Dion Lewis was probably a bad example as I was just listing off the top of my head, but I also probably missed a couple as well. But Ruben Brown was a 1st round pick who ended up a 9-time Pro Bowler at guard (more than Steve Hutchinson). Antonio Bryant was a Biletnikoff award winner who went on to have a solid NFL career (comparable to Braylon Edwards who I consider pretty good). I definitely would call both of those guys high profile.
Pitt has been credited as being one of the NFLs most fertile draft pipelines. Somehow they always manage to have half their senior class drafted in the later rounds, too.
That's all true, top to bottom. I think playing at Heinz Field is a double edged sword. It does keep the fan numbers low, especially in the bad times. Pain in the ass to get there. BUT, more so than other college teams playing in pro-stadiums, I think there is an upshot for Pitt. Unlike most teams, which are just leasing the field, Pitt has a strong working relationship with the Rooney family. The Panthers don't just play in the stadium, they use the same facilities on the South Side of the city. They LITERALLY spend their college careers under the noses of the Steelers staff. That gets some extra pro attention, and since what one pro staff knows generally becomes common knowledge to scouts, that's led to a lot of extra attention to Pitt players. Not a far stretch to imagine that's why so many of them have placed so well. The Big East, I think, is what's held them back more than anything. Their downturn really was tied to the creation of that poor doomed conference.
His high school is a Pitt feeder school
Sam Webb said earlier this week on the recruiting roundup that if Winovich decides shortly after his Pitt visit, it looks good for Michigan, and if he waits and takes more visits after Pitt, it looks less certain.
Pitt insiders have implied that his heart is with Pitt, but his mind tells him the train wreck of their program isn't going to get any better. Given his own inclinations (it is said) he'd wait and see how the next season develops, but he's afraid he'll lose his spot at Michigan or Ohio if he waits. The implication was that even he was wavering back and forth on it. That's a take it for what it's worth thing, I have no special insight beyond what Pitt people say on the matter.
would be consistent with how confused all the insiders are. Everyone thinks something different. Might be 100 people all trying to read too much into the words of a high school kid who didn't know where he was leaning
I've read everything in this thread and on 247 and have come to the conclusion that nobody knows anything.
nothing has changed
That's the one thing I already knew.
... what do you think of Mike McCray?
Apparently Urban is still hard on his tail.
...is probably the most accurate assessment of recruiting I've ever read.
On the stability logic, no one would have committed to Brady Hoke before his first season. A lot depends on the faith a coach can instill in recruits with regards to bis vision of the future. Hoke did it. Chryst has had considerable success in recruiting Western PA already: Off the top of my head, Orndoff and Holtz both had Michigan offers but chose to stay home and play for Pitt, as did Dorian Johnson. I add, parenthetically, that Pitt's profile as a university is essentially the same as those of Big Ten schools...in fact, it would rank ahead of most Big Ten universities in school rankings (or it did as of a year or two ago). Moreover, as to the stability, if Chryst didn't leave Pitt for Wisconsin, he can make a strong argument that he intends to make good his committment to Pitt.
Yes. Yes he has.
Sure. Pitt had a ranked team and a ranked recruiting class going into RichRod's last year, when Michigan was buried in problems. SO things never change in this game. Of course the geography, quality of education and pro potential arguments concerning Pitt haven't changed either. So I suppose most football recuits don't make decisions based on your expectations of the future. Strange...
so let me know if this is information I shouldn't be sharing publicly, but apparently Chase is deciding very soon and our commits are confident about it. Take it FWIW. Edit this and remove it if you feel it should be
2014 LB Chase Winovich: "I've made the plan to commit tomorrow, but I'm going to sleep on it one more night."
— CoachBrown TheMBlock (@CoachBrown3) June 1, 2013
Wherever he committs, Winovich is one to watch down the line. He still seems very unsure about his decision.
Edit: Tweet isn't working right. This is from Wilton
Big news tomorrow
I was just gonna post that. Good news!
Couple comments make it sound like even if he does commit, he would be 'soft'.
Not true. One reason for his hesitancy is his school really hates decommitments...so Chase, if committed, likely is committed for the long haul.
What a tease, who is it
I just woke up from a very long nightmare that Michigan was losing the first game of the season to a cupcake. I'm pretty sure it was a dream since they had the name "galactic" on their uniforms. I need to stop sniffing glue before bed.
Gallappalachian State by any chance? I had that nightmare a few years ago.
It will always be too soon.
I hope DB doesn't read your post and get more ideas for uniformzz.
Winovich to announce at 5:30 today, per the M Block (and confirmed by TVH)
EDIT: don't see that on M Block twitter page, may have been deleted. But it's included in the ESPN forum. Maybe shouldn't have posted, but assumed it was public with the Coach Brown tweet
EDIT II: since I can't find the Coach Brown tweet, and Tom wasn't as definitive (and I feel a little bad having posted Tom's ESPN Insider), maybe for now this should be revised to say, IF anything happens today, it will be later in the day. I'm sure there will be an update later. A Coach Brown tweet does say Winovich knows where he's going to commit
Winovich seems like a very underrated player, I hope he goes blue!
I built a belt for my couch. I'm tired of sitting in the car outside all this time. It was a long night.
Why am I just now being informed of this?
or the bouncer does!
Winovich is a 3-star according to Rivals and 247 and he sounds like a smart kid - a solid addition to our depth at LB. But can someone tell me why we are breathless over a 3-star? Have guys like Green and Peppers spoiled me? Or is he rated higher or received a late bump that hasn't shown up on the web pages.
but recruiting services are obviously not the be-all-end-all to a HS players abilities. If you're a linebacker in the midwest and both Michigan and Ohio State are pursuing you heavily, then you are a great linebacker. I doubt we're fighting over a guy who both schools see as a depth player. It's nice to see 4 or 5 stars next to a guys name, but Winovich has gotten the Brady-Urban stamp of approval which is just about as good to me
People think Hoke poops gold, so any recruit he pulls in must be awesome.
Also, people think he's better than he might be just because Michigan has a chance to win him away from Ohio State. If he didn't have an OSU offer, I doubt there would be as much hype.
But one can't casually dismiss the affect an OSU offer has on the eval of a kid, no? It's not a perfect proxy for quality, but it's at least relevant to us, isn't it?
That depends on who's doing the evaluating. Urban Meyer has been accused of relying on recruiting services for his information, and he's not really renowned as a great talent evaluator. People said part of him getting run down at Florida was because he disliked the recruiting process, talent evaluation, etc. He just got sick of it. Who's to say he won't have the same problem at OSU? And I don't really see his guys from Florida tearing it up in the NFL, so I guess I don't put a ton of stock in OSU's offer. Honestly, I'd be more impressed with a Penn State offer, because those guys are great at evaluating and developing linebackers.
Isn't the accusation that Urban sometimes relies on recruiting services for his information MORE of an indication of talent in this case?
If Urban usually uses Scout/ESPN/247 for his information and Winovich is just a middling 3-star, AND Ohio State is still pursuing him hard, in a year OSU is (mildly) handicapped by NCAA scholly restrictions, in a position where they already have 3 highly rated commits and a lead for a near 5-star (Raekwon) that would make 4 LBs... That would indicate that the OSU staff has identified Winovich specifically amongst all the other 3-stars in Ohio as a larger talent
I don't know. I don't know who Ohio State has offered and why. Winovich has long had an affinity for them, so it's possible that they offered him over some other 3-star guy partly because they thought they could get him. It's also possible that some LB coach at OSU knows Winovich's uncle's dad's barber, and he thought he might have a shot because of it.
The bottom line is that some good programs (Michigan, Ohio State, Miami, Oregon, Virginia Tech, Florida State) have offered, while lots of other good ones (USC, Alabama, Florida, Texas, Texas A&M, Georgia, etc.) have not. He's a 3-star to every recruiting service. He might be good. He might not. Regardless, he will be the same player whether he's the #535 overall player (which he's currently ranked by 247's Composite ranking) or #250.
Only Magnus is a true judge of talent. Why the coaches don't just let him hand out offers is beyond me. I like a lot of your player profiles but this rant just comes off as you being full of yourself.
Huh? At no point in this thread have I offered a judgment on Winovich at all.
So that wasn't you who posted that if not for the OSU offer no one would care? I think a reasonably intelligent person would deduce from your posts that you don't think much of the recruit or Meyer's capability to identify talent and that Hoke will get a pass on this one because of pooping gold.
False. Read what I say, not what you think I'm trying to say.
But don't you think the fact that both UM and OSU have made him such a priority (and early on, no less) that that's a pretty good indicator of his talent? Both schools are in on a lot of talented players, and at this point, neither need a lot more LBs (for OSU, because they already have a few committed) so they have the luxury of being picky. Yet they both clearly really want him.
He might not be a Peppers level recruit, but that's good enough for me.
Hah. Find where I've said that he's not talented. Here's what I said:
"If he didn't have an OSU offer, I doubt there would be this much hype."
That's all I said, and it was in response to a question about why there's so much hype. People need to stop twisting my words.
Hah! (just starting a post with "hah" is an incredible indicator of how much of a tool the poster is). Maybe magnus needs to realize that perception is reality. Everyone read your words, and everyone interpreted them to be critical of the opinions of both staffs regarding Winovich. No one is "twisting your words", we're just not in the "magnus poops gold" camp. Get over yourself.
You're avoiding the question.
Here's what I took from that sentence you quoted: that you feel his hype is from his OSU offer and not from him being a very good linebacker. I disagree, I think his OSU offer came from him being very good (the M offer as well) and the hype followed from both his offers and his talent.
As I mentioned in the comment about Kyle Kalis, the hype around Winovich on this board would not be as pronounced if not for the fact that people perceive Michigan (or whoever he picks) to be stealing him from OSU.
I'm curious. When you're putting out your evaluations, how many hours of film are you watching? Where do you get full game footage of all of these prospects?
Doesn't he have a penn state offer too?
That's certainly not an accusation anyone who knows what they're talking about would make. It would mean Urban Meyer never goes after a prospect before the recruiting services make their ratings and would never go after a 3 star recruit. Neither one is the case. OSU has offers out to, and commits from plenty of 3 star types.
Also, even though the HC might have the final say, I would think the position coaches have a lot more to do with who gets an offer and who doesn't.
So we should follow Penn State's linebacker recruiting because of guys like Matt Millen, LaVar Arrington, and Paul Posluszny? I don't know if you noticed, but PSU had a coaching change recently. Unless you think it's the buildings in State College that have been evaluating LB talent over the last few decades, that argument is ridiculous.
Perhaps you should take a closer look at their coaching staff, particularly their linebackers coach. Then get back to me.
So you think they're Linebacker U because of one position coach who has been there for a decade? Plus, even if they had kept the same exact staff together for the last 40 years, wouldn't it seem more likely that they produce good linebackers because they're good at developing them over four years as opposed to spotting talent that no one else can see in a couple of hours of grainy high school highlights?
I think if Bill O'Brien is smart - and he seems to be - he'll give Coach Vanderlinden and Coach Johnson some freedom to evaluate their players. Like it or not, I trust Bill O'Brien and Ron Vanderlinden to find linebacker talent over Urban Meyer and Luke Fickell.
The hype is getting a little out of control. Bill O'Brien had near zero input in player personnel decisions at New England. Hell, he was the OC in New England for only one year.
PSU didn't have a terrible roster of players last year. JoePa didn't exaclty leave the cupboards bare there. He had a promising first season that exceeded expectations, but we still have very little data on his ability to evaluate and develop players. Let's wait a couple years before we crown his ass.
I don't really give a rat's patoot about Bill O'Brien.
Ron Vanderlinden and Larry Johnson are the linebacker and defensive line coach, respectively, and I'm sure they do a ton of the evaluating of their positions, if not others as well. Vanderlinden's counterpart is Luke Fickell. I really shouldn't have to say any more.
Maybe Tom Bradley was calling the shots the last 10 years. Maybe Everitt Withers has a lot of input on personnel at Ohio State. None of us knows for sure. I agree with you that I think Vanderlinden is a better coach than Fickell, but neither is the only coach on their respective staff. And considering Urban Meyer's track record with assistants versus Bill Belichick, I think I would put more faith in an Ohio State offer right now than PSU.
The HC of a program certainly plays a role in the decision to offer a scholarship, no? That's sort of the point. You seemed dismissive of Meyer, but he has a solid staff as well.
PSU's linebackers coach is Ron Vanderlinden, who has coached numerous excellent linebackers in the forms of Pat Fitzgerald, Paul Posluszny, Navorro Bowman, Michael Mauti, Sean Lee, etc.
Luke Fickell has coached...umm...Ryan Shazier?
Yeah, I'll take Vanderlinden and Co.
Fickell has been the linebacker coach since 2004 (with the exception of 2011).
So he's coached AJ Hawk, James Laurinaitis along with a few other NFL players (Rolle, Carpenter)
i've never understood why people say things about how well a player from U of M does in the NFL. I guess its good to see, but if i had to choose, i would rather the player be a great college player than a great nfl player, I want U of M to win more than I care about the quality of the players career once he leave. And yes great college players usually mean great NFL players, but sometimes you can win with players who don't project to the next level but tear it up in college
He could have had a PSU offer any time he wanted one. He told them from the start he wasn't interested. He was told he had a full ride if he ever changed his mind.
But I took from your original comment that you think fans overrate Hoke's evaluation (I.e. scholarship offers), or at least whoever evals UM recruits. And I take from your second comment that OSU offers may be overrated, insofar a they reflect the decision of second year coach U Meyer, insofar as he just based it on scout services (query why he'd offer a 3 star, given that that's the point of this original reply thread). But you'd respect the eval of Penn State, which had a brand new staff as well an a second year HC?
Yes, I do think fans are in the mindset of overrating Hoke's offers/evaluations. He can do no wrong right now because of getting Peppers and other highly rated recruits. It is a fact that some of these commits will not pan out. Nobody knows for sure who they will be, but some will. Might it be Winovich? Could it be Ferns? Could it be Wilton Speight or Shane Morris? Nobody knows. Some will do well, and some won't.
OSU offers aren't overrated. They're just other offers. Who's to say whether they're good or bad or right or wrong? The point is simply that if you take away that ONE offer, people on this here message board probably wouldn't be talking about him so much. It's a chance to steal someone that OSU wants, so Michigan fans are extra excited.
Let's take a look back at the recruitment of Kyle Kalis. If we had flipped a 5-star recruit from Washington or Clemson, would it have been a big deal? Sure. Did the fact that Kalis flipped from OSU make it a BIGGER deal? Absolutely. If we were recruiting Winovich solely against Pitt, Florida State, etc., would some people be excited? Yes. Is there MORE intrigue because he has a check mark next to "OSU" in the offer column? I don't think there's any doubt. That's it. That's all. People are trying to say that I'm bashing Winovich, but it has nothing to do with him as a player - it's about the perception of stealing a kid away from potentially committing to OSU.
It's not just Ohio State. The last 2 years we have been pulling recruits that have been getting high level offers from schools like Alabama, LSU, USC, Notre Dame, and Florida. I don't think this is just OSU. The players we were getting through most of the 2000s did not have offer sheets like Hoke's classes.
The only concern I have is the early offer/commits. I think Michigan may be missing out on kids who develop as seniors or taking some kids early who may prove to not be developing 6 months later. It's one advantage SEC schools have as it seems kids in the Southeast have tended to wait more toward Signing Day to decide
Players of Urban Meyer's at Florida "tearing it up in the NFL" include Percy Harvin, Brandon Spikes, Aaron Hernandez, Jermaine Cunningham, Joe Haden, both of the Pouncey brothers, and Will Hill. The list of players they have in the NFL is staggering. So that's just an absurd accusation. You're a hack, plain and simple, and I'm getting tired of seeing you on the board.
This is a conversation about linebackers. Brandon Spikes? 200 tackles and 1 sack in three NFL seasons. Not exactly "tearing it up."
every week, and while he's no Ray Lewis, Spikes is a very servicable NFL player. This notion that an Urban Meyer offer doesn't mean much is absolute horseshit, as much as we all hate him, he's one of the best coaches in the country. You know what, why don't you just start doling out offers for every major program in the country, you seem to know exactly how good every player despite basing your evals off of highlight tapes.
So...I should keep my opinions about football players to myself, but you've got Brandon Spikes pegged as a very serviceable NFL linebacker.
That's an interesting contradiction there.
If he didn't have an OSU offer, I doubt there would be as much hype.
Let's face it, this is a big reason why we are all so interested. (And it's a legit one IMO.)
not that I don't like Magnus's site.
I don't even know where I would get talent evaluations from the "Big Four" recruiting sites. I'm not an ESPN Insider or a member of Scout, and those are the two sites that seem to offer scouting reports. Rivals and 247 are mostly about fluff and recruiting questions, and those are my two subscriptions. So how would I go about plagiarizing scouting reports?
Speaking of being a parrot, though, thanks for saying "I'll trust Michigan's staff over you." Wow, I've never heard that before. Nor do I care whom you trust.
Magnus does far more work evaluating these players than the majority of people on this blog. You act like he's an Ohio State fan. The guy offers his opinion and people like you bash him for it. The arrogance and douche bag in you makes me sad to be a Michigan fan sometimes.
The common opinion I'm seeing is that he plays very well and could be slightly underrated. I think he's already a high three star so he may be one of those borderline guys that gets bumped to a four star later on, especially after committing to Michigan and having an OSU offer. But Scout will drop him lower, since they seem to hate Michigan commits this year.
Anyway, tl;dr, he's a really good three star.
that means he'll soon be an ESPN 5 star!
People are excited because:
a) It's always exciting when someone picks Michigan
b) It's a recruiting battle with Ohio, and we like winning those
c) Typically players who Michigan and Ohio fight over are better than generic three-stars, so there's some belief that his rating is too low based on that interest.
Let's not forget that this staff seems to have a knack for finding underrated talent,so Winovich is probably a legit B10 linebacker.
Like our basketball coach!
Who gives a shit how many stars the kid gets? The staff wants him, enough said.
but in ourselves...
- Will Shakespeare (apparently he knew something about recruiting)
I'm interested because he seems to be the current best available for Michigan at SLB which is a poistion of "need" in this class. I use "need" because we have a starter there for the next two years, but after that we only have a couple potential players (McCray and Ferns).
Personally, I think Ferns can play either MLB or SLB. With the depth chart at MLB/WLB being Bolden, Jenkins Stone, Ross, Poole, Gedeon and the depth chart at SLB being McCray, I see Ferns at SLB. You'd like to have more than two players competing at a position, especially if one is redshirt freshman.
Hope Winovich goes Blue.
@WPIAL_Insider Chase Winovich will be committing tonight at 5:30. He is down to two schools: Pitt and Michigan
I remember Jimmy Swain being mentioned more frequently a couple of weeks ago as a potential option. It seems like that chatter has died out and we are hearing more about Winovich. Looking at the charts of OLB it does seem like there are only a few legitimate takers with Chase being perhaps our best bet. Not blown away with his skillset but recruiting is about filling needs with the best talent/fit available. That being said, I really think most fellow MGoBloggers are watching this so closely because it is a potential poke in Urban's eye.
I'm curious. When you're evaluating these prospects how many hours of game footage are you watching? Where do you acquire this footage?
And while we're at it, how much time each week would you say you deal with these TPS reports?
Just a gut feeling, I just read a quote from him yesterday where he said something to the effect of "it hit me that I'm making this decision not for just the next 4 years, but the next 50 years...I want to look back down the road and be proud of the school I attended."
Very smart comment, #1. But #2, I've heard MULTIPLE recruits say this in the past when referring to Michigan.
Makes me feel that it's something the coaches routinely say. Michigan does have a network unlike any other, that diploma means a ton and to Michigan is clearly something that graduates remain proud of.
It was just a comment that really stuck out to me because I've heard commits say that before, I've also heard graduating seniors say almost the same words in regards to Michigan.
We've heard on numerous occassions where recruits or players repeat things the coaches say. How many times have we heard "it's the expectation for the position" or something about "playing for Michigan," etc. I've heard this quote about the next 50 years and looking back down the road on numerous occassions, hopefully it's Hokespeak in Winovich's ear.
2 hours away, but I think Winovich is Blue...which is crazy, because two weeks ago I thought we were the runners up.
For everyone who thinks I'm bashing Winovich, here's my final comment on him from my scouting report:
however, I think he could be a BCS all-conference type of player if he can maintain his athleticism.
Wow. I must really think he's terrible, huh? It must be a mistake that Hoke offered him, since I think he could be All-Big Ten.
Let it go bud. Hope he goes Blue. I enjoyed your write up very much, thank you for writing it.
I don't care if you think whether or not he's good because your evaluations are tailored to create some contoversy within the mgoblog community. Yes, there are some hits and misses in recruiting, but a good way to determine whether or not you should get excited about a player is if he has legitamite offers from Michigan and Ohio (and don't be a smartass here). Urban Meyer knows what a good player looks like. So does Greg Mattison. At the very least, they see the potential to coach Winovich into a good player. Stop instigating with your "holier than thou" opinions and masquerading as an informed talent evaluator.
He has a football blog and part of it is doing recruiting evaluations, which he also puts here. He's doing it for fun and really isn't bad at it. You guys trying to say he's being elitist for doing so really have no grounds for that, because he never says anything other than what his opinion is, and hasn't said anything bad to any of you who are bashing him. Just because you don't always like his opinion doesn't mean you should bash him for giving it. Keep it up, Magnus.
relax people, Magnus compared Winovich to Shawn Crable in his evaluation... if Winovich ends up being as good as Crable was, or even close to it, we won't be complaining.
this thread has devolved into nonsense man. please stop.
5:33 and NOTHING YET! The Internet is dead!
These kids today have no respect for promptness.
Next hour or two.
Here goes . . .
is saying good news is coming...
Whoo Hoo! Suck it, Urban.
No. I'm not too proud to act 12 years old.
never wanted him anyway.