Broad BBC Discussion on Major College Sports

Submitted by LDNfan on

BBC roundtable discussion on the U Texas campus that touches on race, money, gender and health issues related to Big Time sports in the U.S. 

First, I was really surprised to hear this when I turned on the BBC this morning. For the BBC to take interests in the inequities of U.S. College sports is saying something. 

Second, its thought provoking. I personally, find myself often feeling uncomfortable with the socio-economics of Men's CFB and BB. 

Definitely Worth a listen

ijohnb

April 29th, 2016 at 6:05 AM ^

believe that this conversation has gone on long enough. There are inequities with everything in every culture, but broadly in college sports, the players are happy, the institutions are happy, the parents are happy, and the fans are happy. College athletics are one of the great institutions of the American culture and it is far past time to start concentrating on all the good instead of fear and hate mongering that has gone on lately. There are actually big, big problems in our culture that are worth discussing, instead we discuss the evils of a process that makes a lot of people happy, unites states and even entire regions of people in a common interest and provides a good education to thousands of kids every year who otherwise would not get one. Enough already.

In reply to by ijohnb

Blazefire

April 29th, 2016 at 6:35 AM ^

Two ways to look at that:

1) you're absolutely correct. Malaria and Hunger are way bigger and more important.

2) small issues should never remain unaddressed because they're small.




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In reply to by ijohnb

kscurrie2

April 29th, 2016 at 7:39 AM ^

I'm not sure the players and the families are "happy". I don't think they have much of a choice. A lot of kids that play at that level do so with a hope of getting out of their current situation. The alternative is not to go to college and more than likely stay in a rough environment. Every kid is in essence gambling because the reality is that ALL highly recruited kids think they are going pro which will lead to disappointment for most. They are not told that part. So yes, they are given a free education with a major that usually will not find them a great career. But they also have to deal with the well documented issues of playing football 10-12 years of their life. With all the reports of players trying to form unions and going to bed hungry, I don't think they are "happy". What other choice do they have other than take the deal they are given? There is a reason why there is no minor league for football and basketball. It would kill all varsity sports at every university because those two sports, plus hockey, are the life blood of the entire athletic department. Now in the scheme of world problems, this is very small issue. However, this problem can be bigger than one thinks. contracts for pro athletes are getting larger and larger, players getting recruited younger and younger. When a kid is getting a scholarship offer in the eighth grade, their priorities change, it is no longer that I need to get good grades or how to become an entrepreneur, it's about getting better at that sport so I can get a large payday. Then they go to college, get all busted up and can't function in society. Then they end up disabled or on state aid and tax payers are stuck paying. I know quite a few former athletes that didn't make it pro or played for a year or two, most of them are not really having fulfilling lives.

ijohnb

April 29th, 2016 at 8:31 AM ^

You are saying that college sports give kids from difficult upbringing a good education that they otherwise would not receive and an opportunity to showcase their developing athletic abilities and granting them widespread adoration. I totally agree. Happy Friday.

In reply to by ijohnb

kscurrie2

April 29th, 2016 at 9:33 AM ^

But lets be real, what type of education are they getting? Yes they have the name of the university on a piece of paper. if that is what an education is to you, fine.  But you and i both know with practice, games, travelling and recovery, there is very little time to study.  I never played college athletics, but when i was at Michigan, there were not enough hours in the day.  As for the adoration, that last until they graduate, get hurt, or make a series of bad plays.  See Devin Gardner.

ijohnb

April 29th, 2016 at 10:14 AM ^

It is so difficult to reach the conclusion that he does that it is clear how one-sided the coverage of this issue is.  Any discussion of "exploitation" sells right now, it generates clicks, listeners, watchers, etc.  It is very easy for a writer of a talk show host to get an audience right now, just talk about the "exploitation" of college athletics and the audience will line up to hear about it.

OK, people want to say that a majority of the athletes are not focussed in the most difficult majors, fine, SO WHAT?  Neither did I and I am doing fine.  Not every college athlete or anybody in the in the "general population" is going to major in Advanced Electromagnetic Chemical Engineering of MasterSpace and Cancer Research. 

They get a degree, they have connections both on the faculty and staff.  A great majority of them get to experience a world full of promise that they otherwise would not have dreamed of.  College athletics is one of the GOOD THINGS in our culture, it is one of the things that is WORKING and people spend hours upon hours searching for ways to tear it down.  It doesn't make sense.

Yeah, let's talk about Devin Gardner.  The Devin Gardner with a Masters Degree is social work from one of the best Universities on the planet, that is.

LDNfan

April 29th, 2016 at 5:37 PM ^

The vast majority of these kids are not even all that interested in School (See Cardele J and damn near every CBB player who 'thinks' they have a shot at the pros). They play the game because they HAVE to play the game. College BB is an absolute mess because of this facade. Is that what we want from our Universities pretend students brought in for a year to play the game but with no real interest in class (No way a kid that is fairly certain he's out in a year or two is going to put forth the effort...not happening).

Its a big world but only in the U.S do you have these multi-billion dollar college sports departments that look a lot like professional franchises but with very little labor costs. Outside of the U.S. you have young people going right into pro BB, tennis, soccer etc. If they want to go to college too then fine but then they are just another student busting his/her arse trying to get their degree. 

I'll bet you if there were a legit alternative college football would find itself in the same mess that we see with CBB. If these young men had another route to getting paid they would in many instances opt out. 

Its astonishing that so many fans care so little about the players having real choice in how they are used. 

Rabbit21

April 29th, 2016 at 8:46 AM ^

I don't know, I always look at what the alternative is and whether they are better off than they otherwise would have been, in almost all cases the answer is yes. I'd rather have them be in a situation to get an education rather than making almost nothing in a minor league and not getting the education. There are things that can be done on the margins to make it better, but on the whole the system probably creates more good than bad.




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kscurrie2

April 29th, 2016 at 9:40 AM ^

For one, thank  your dad for his service to this country.  Your right, that is an alternative, but what highly recruited college athlete would do that when there is a possibility, however small it is, to make millions going pro?  The goal of most kids is to go pro, college sports, as of right now, is the only vehicle to get them there.  All im saying is given the option to go to college, or make 40-50k in minor leagues, most would chose the minor leagues.  Colleges and professional sports know this.  This is why there isnt minor leagues.

gwrock

April 29th, 2016 at 10:03 AM ^

I think you're looking at college sports through a pretty narrow prism.  The vast majority of athletes are playing sports in college for the same reason they played in high school -- they love playing their sports.  If they can get a scholarship for playing their sport, that's just icing on the cake.

 

DrewGOBLUE

April 29th, 2016 at 10:34 AM ^

Every kid is in essence gambling because the reality is that ALL highly recruited kids think they are going pro which will lead to disappointment for most.



You're probably right that it's not uncommon for many D1 prospects to have the presumptuous mentality that they'll be in for a lucrative pro career after college. But if jumping from HS to a minor league were a more readily available option, an overabundance of players would likely figure they might as well not bother to play school.

Then after a few years of making a $30k salary, majority end up realizing they were a bit overconfident/naive about their chances at the NFL or NBA. And they have no education to fallback on.

In reply to by ijohnb

LDNfan

April 29th, 2016 at 7:46 AM ^

Believe whatever you want, but this discussion is in its early days.

Why? Because the NCAA and the Power 5 conferences are raking it in and trickling it out to those that do the work. But more importantly, the players are slowly awakening. Northwestern, Missouri, etc. are recent examples of players starting to show a bit of collective muscle (so yeah I guess not all are happy). And with social media it will happen more often and to greater effect. The talk of long-term debilitating health issues, non-guaranteed schollies, coaches coming and going, academic fraud and extended seasons are all part of this as well.  

Its not going away even if some fans have 'had enough' its a reality that will eventually have to be dealt with..but ok, maybe not on a happy go lucky Friday.

ijohnb

April 29th, 2016 at 10:32 AM ^

is being dealt with, changes are being made and certain issues are being addressed.  Players are not going to be paid if that it was you are waiting for.  If players become employees the entire dynamic changes and college sports will effectively end.  Be careful what you wish for.

lbpeley

April 29th, 2016 at 11:04 AM ^

Just because some athletes want more and think they can get it does not necessarily mean that they are "unhappy". They are just trying to see how far they can push it to get more. Nothing wrong with that.

As another poster said, the vast majority of college athletes are in sports that lose money for their U. It's the big dogs like FB and BB that rake it in and cover those losses. 

In reply to by lbpeley

LDNfan

April 29th, 2016 at 5:14 PM ^

Didn't say they were unhappy..but they can see what everyone else sees..and that is the rapid rise in money flowing into the schools and the coaches and the administrators and the people calling their games on TV all getting huge bumps in wages that far exceed inflation. And, they are starting to realize that their labour is being used to subsidize other money losing programs (not good for on campus comraderie).

Its amusing that the reaction of fans is so against the players getting paid...its the one time the fans rush to the side of the NCAA. In every other case we howl at just how corrupt the NCAA is..well you know what? That corruption doesn't walk around the issue of student exploitation and compensation. 

M-Dog

April 29th, 2016 at 8:55 AM ^

No, but they love trashing American sports.

The are the worst "Sports Imperialists" in the world.

In the US, we don't give a shit what sports they like in Britain.  Go ahead and like what you like.  Knock yourself out.

But the Btits insist that Americans should not like the sports they like.  They should only like the sports Brits like.

Mind your own fucking business.

mgoblue0970

April 29th, 2016 at 9:55 AM ^

Huh?

I do business in London once or twice a year and just don't see that.  When I go over there, all the folks in the local office want to talk about is the NFL.

I've seen more people on *this* board correct people for saying soccer instead of football than I have in England.

 

King Douche Ornery

April 29th, 2016 at 7:25 AM ^

I love it!

"Fuck it. It's total hypocrisy, people are making money, and it gives MgoBlog a lot of threads on how everybody else but Michigan is dirty, BUT SO FUCKING WHAT! What else would I do with my life?"

Not to mention, it gives plenty of space for posers who pretend to have gone to a university to create a whole new identity for the purposes of making friends on a college sports blog.

Wolvie3758

April 29th, 2016 at 10:31 AM ^

than having foreign broadcasters many of whom dislike the US telling Americans what they should think and feel..no thanks

turtleboy

April 29th, 2016 at 10:38 AM ^

Unfortunately I agree with just about every side of this discussion. Poor americans have the opportunity to receive a great education where they otherwise might not, Hooray!

The simple truth is if there weren't billions of dollars on the table we wouldn't be discussing this at all. The major problem will continue to be that coaches and players (a great many underprivileged) doing 100% of the work to generate a multi billion dollar pie, to which the NCAA contibutes in almost no capacity, yet gets the biggest slice, and demands that the players get none. I know eveybody agrees to this going in, and hooray some of these kids get an actual education, but this is still a very very shitty arrangement. 

aratman

April 29th, 2016 at 10:52 AM ^

 An orginization who makes the rules made a rule that said players CAN'T get paid.  They are making billions but are not willing to give some to the players and not just that they say no one can pay them.  They limit the number of scholarships in what they call compitition but all that does is keep others from getting a scholarship.  It is not only that they are not paying, as everyone above says they don't have to play, they are getting an education, whatever. It is that it is self serving to not let anyone pay them.  Do you think that Alabama or Michigan, if it were in the rules, would not pay to get the best players?   I am pretty sure they would.