I think that suggests he did.
I think that suggests he did.
lol, love it when the grammar police are all thats left
The situations with Stonum and Grady are not the same, but the fact is both were suspended and had to meet specific requirement to have their suspensions lifted. I am not saying what the ND players did deserved a suspension (and I am not saying it didn't), but I do not understand how you can throw around these as examples of Michigan handling similar situations poorly.
In contrast, BK came out and made a self-righteous statement about the current ND situation and specifically said that ND took it very "seriously". He then announced that he had put his players on a "short leash" for the remainder of the summer, presumably to make certain nothing like this ever happens again. He should have just kept quiet and said it was being taken care of internally.
Damn. I was hoping for some 2 game suspensions if you know what i mean...
Sort of makes Urban Meyer look like an iron fist. Even he at least gives out 1/2 game suspensions.
Hey what happened to Kevin Grady after he spent those 7 days in jail after violating his probation on a DUI last summer, he just kind of showed up ready to play on day one. Meyer just kicked a player for a DUI, well that and he had to find somewhere to put his new 5 star LB.
You're right, except there were a number of press reports about obligations Grady had to do to be able to show up on day one, including his dad saying he was getting them done.
Besides, the NCAA says you can't discipline these guys in the summer or breaking team rules nowadays ... (I'm guessing you can set "voluntary" activities.)
As stated in the last post discussing this, i think underage drinking itself is an awful awful law and i feel absolutly no shame if i break it ...
I also feel that at a public school or a non honor code school that players should literally only have to run stairs, wind sprints, etc. and that really is only for getting caught. Also, there is no reason the coach has to make these public
However, at honor code schools it is a different deal. Trust me, i realize that certain standards are different for athletes than the student body at all schools (see admisions requirments) and i am ok with that because they EXCEL in the area they are looking to have a job in. However, when it comes to student punishment, athletes should be treated just like another student and as posted above, nd is famous for being amazingly hard on kids for their first offense and this is well known and expected by all who apply there. Furthermore, if i decided to go to the umich-nd and get caught drinking underage, there is a real chance i get banned from the campus for life. I have no problem with how BK dealt with the situation, I do have a real problem with how Notre Dame's student punishment (whoever runs it) seems to be dealing with it.
How would it work to get 'banned from campus for life?' Does ND actually attempt to do such a thing? How would they enforce it? What would the punishment be for breaking such a ban? Seriously, I am actually curious.
As far as this supposed scandal, it is an early black eye for Kelly. Nothing else. I am not personally scandalized and don't care how the players are punished. I was interested to see how ND would handle it because they tend to go above and beyond for this type of thing. Maybe it's just the Parietals that they take uber seriously.
None of the 42 students arrested for underage drinking have been dismissed from school or faced anything more than the athletes who were arrested with them. And actually, athletes have received stronger penalties than the rest of the student body because a random non-scholarship student isn't in the public eye, but a ND athlete is. The tendency of reslife has been the exact opposite of what you're saying.
Went through an immense amount of work for the rest of offseason in order to get back onto the team in the first place. Furthermore, he was nothing more than a situational and backup RB for the rest of his career. That DUI cost him more than you know.
Which is really too bad. I don't think the kid quite deserved his fate, considering the effort he put forth and the highway robbery he got on that fumble a good 5 seconds after the play should have been blown dead.
(know somebody who is a UM athlete) that Grady went through HELL to be able to stay on the team. Workouts that nobody would want to do.
I had no doubt he received punishment from the coaching staff, and I had no doubt the UM staff took his probation violation seriously. It actually wasn't of any concern to me at all.
Only Detroit media would support trashing local teams. ND is just moving on and handling this internally .... probably more to the story but not for public viewing.
not unexpected. Not everybody's the perfect person in the world. I mean everyone kills people, attends house parties, drinks underage, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever.
... if he were at UofM. First, he is clearly not all that bright. I am not trying to take a cheap shot at him or OSU, but TP is exactly the kind of person who would do something that violates NCAA rules (of which there are a million, including many that don't even seem to make sense) without realizing the significance of his actions. Second, he is very TP focused. I could easily see him taking money or signing with an agent a week before a bowl game because at heart he is more focused on TP than his school or even his teammates.
When he announced he was going to OSU, he called it the University of Ohio State for God's sake. He didn't grow up a die hard OSU fan and he has no heartfelt loyalty to OSU. This is just a business transaction to him on his way to bigger and better things (a la Lebron in some ways).
I agree. We may have experienced more pain the past two years, but I think TP choosing OSU was a blessing in diguise.
Isn't herpes the gift that keeps on giving?
Honestly, I'd be disappointed if he really hammered them. I don't feel like underage drinking is a serious issue. It's not like they were driving around campus on a moped or stormed a frat house.
... is, in a way, what got them into trouble in the first place!
I think Kelly will handle this "in house," and it's the right decision. It's college; kids drink. Also, IIRC, this was in a house, which was a semi-controlled environment. If they were a menace to fellow students, committing violent acts in public, I would want to see more done to them. But, from all accounts, this was a "crime" that had no victims and really didn't need police involvement.
Do these kids deserve to run a lot of stadium steps until their teammates and coaches are satisfied that they understand the realities of being a student-athlete under a microscope? Yes. Do they deserve further punishment? Not in my book.
I want to see them all present, accounted for, and ready to take a severe thrashing against Michigan. That should be "punishment" enough.
BK should have said just that, i.e. that it was being handled within the program or the AD. He didn't. He said he was very disappointed and had placed the kids on the double secret short leash as if that means something. Lou Holtz would never say that. JoePa or Bo wouldn't either. Bobby Knight? It's silly.
...that advertisement made me lose my concentration. Carry on.
You did read the article right?
Irish is just trying to accumulate points by posting alot under 1 topic.
A comedian, (it may have been Robin Williams, IIRC) once did a bit about the bobbies in London, who don't carry fire arms. "What are they going to do? Say, 'Stop! Or I'll say stop again!'"
This one thing is not going to make or break BK, but the effect is subtle. What do the other players think, the ones who have not gotten themselves into trouble and embarrassed the school? And what do the ones that got arrested think? I bet they all were snickering together afterwards in one of their dorm rooms because even they know it's a joke.
Edit: You know who would say something like this? Dantonio.
College kids? Drinking? I'm shocked! Shocked I tell ya!
This just baffles me. It wasn't just college kids drinking. 11 kids were arrested. Do you know the shitstorm RichRod would have had to endure if 11 football players were arrested at the same time and he came out and said "I told them they were wrong, what more do you want?" Underage drinking happens all the time on college campuses, but I went to U of M for 4 years and I didn't attend a single party where 43 people were arrested. I don't care if the Police were ridiculously harsh with these kids, we have to stop acting like 43 kids getting arrested is an everyday occurance, especially at a school like Notre Dame. If Notre Dame and their fans are going to act like their shit don't stink, they better not have a large chunk of football players get arrested and then say "the punishment is the same as if they show up late to church." Fuck Notre Dame.
So you're fine with people underage drinking, but if several of them get caught and arrested, then you have a problem? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Don't put words in my mouth. I am not "fine" with underage drinking. I was stating a fact - that underage drinking happens at every campus in America. Whether or not I am "fine" with it has absolutely no relevance to my post. 11 football players and 32 other students getting arrested does not happen at every campus. This isn't just "ho hum, half of our freshmen recruiting class was arrested last night." Drinking underage becomes a much larger problem when kids on scholarship who are representing the school are all arrested at the same time.
Why? How is an action percieved worse if someone does it with other people and gets caught? If all my siblings get caught stealing today, how is that worse than if they each got caught stealing separately? Or if they all stole but didn't get caught. They all still stole and are dumbasses. The problem should be rooted in the action, not any consequence. And in this case, there isn't much of a problem since under age drinking isn't a big deal.
The fact you don't even focus on the underage drinking part is weird in itself, since you admit to being not "fine" with it. But hey, if they get caught with their peers doing it, then that's big trouble! That makes no sense
If you don't think Stonum getting a DUI is perceived differently than 11 kids getting arrested at the same time for an alcohol related offense, I don't know what to tell you. It is the same reason 1 kid getting in a fight at UM would be perceived differently than the gang beatdown at MSU. This is why I mentioned that you would have to go back at least 5 or 6 years to find 11 UM football players arrested. And I still don't know why you keep relating how I feel about underage drinking...I was talking about for ND's team and BK. This is a much bigger deal than the slap on the wrist BK gave them simply because of the perception that I talked about earlier. As much as you or I or anyone thinks about underage drinking or getting in a fight, numerous kids getting arrested for alcohol or fighting that all just happen to be going to college for free and representing that school is a big deal.
First of all, the argument I'm bringing up isn't in quantity of offenses, it's the fact you keep emphasizing "the same time." Duh, one guy at UM getting into a fight isn't as big a deal as 10 guys at MSU, but that's not what you keep emphasizing. If those 11 underage drinking offense were spread out over a course of a month, would it look as bad? Semantics I know, but it's what you keep saying.
And I'm bringing up how you feel because everything you state is an expression of your opinion. I bring in my views to counter yours. That's an argument. Everything you have said is your own take on things, nothing is factual especially "11 kids arrested for something everyone does is a big deal." Do you not see how hypocritical it is to say it's a big deal for ND for those players to be arrested, but not the action itself?
A proper analogy would be jaywalking. Everyone does it. If a crapload of players got arrested for jaywalking today would it be a big deal? I would say of course not, but going by your thinking it would matter only because they got arrested. You don't even go back to the action itself. Again, makes no sense.
IMHE one guy drunk driving (whether he gets caught or not) is way worse than 11 guys drinking underage (again, whether they get caught or not). Your arguements just don't make a lot of sense.
What you are saying is because they got arrested it makes this a big deal, nevermind what they did to get arrested. So in other words, if they simply do it without getting caught by police, no harm done.
I am of the opinion that underage drinking isn't a big deal, so whether they got arrested or not, I think a few stadium steps and a short leash is fine for this offense.
Generally for the police to actually arrest people for underage drinking they need to be doing something that indicates the situation is about to get violent, destructive, or dangerous in some way. So 43 people arrested means the football players were at a party that was out of hand, not a typical house party with underage kids at it. That means its worse than underage drinking even if that's all they got arrested for.
what type of house parties did you go to that weren't out of hand in the eyes of the police? Sometimes there just aren't enough cops to break up every party that goes on on a Friday night, it doesn't mean they are any more or less out of hand because one got broken up.
I agree that typically you don't get arrested for simple drinking underage, but the fact that it was a big party with lots of underage drinking could have been the reason for the arrests. They often do this in an attempt to get word around that underage drinking isn't tolerated. It doesn't make the offense any worse simply because an arrest was made.
I guess you won't really be able to understand until the state of michigan has their own excise police then.
Which we never will, because we are civilized. Unlike blue-law central, Indiana. Despite the crap I'm contractually obligated to dish out, I actually really love Notre Dame (the University, not the teams - those I hate) and am grateful to have studied here. Indiana, however, I will not miss one bit. :)
I understand fully
This is absolutely a non-issue. If this happened at Michigan this is exactly what we would expect to be done.
I am pretty sure you would have to go back at least 5 or 6 years to find 11 UM football players arrested. I still don't understand how a chunk of kids getting arrested is a non-issue. One kid here or there....sure, not as big of a deal and you handle it accordingly. 11 kids is not a non-issue.
Mostly because people get arrested for stupid stuff all the time. If all the kids were doing was drinking at a party, I think being put on notice for the rest of the summer is probably a pretty decent punishment.
Why is it you keep throwing out the number of people committing the offense as a reason for the offense being a big deal? It doesn't make the offense any more or less serious if multiple people commit it.
If some a kid knocked off a bubblegum machine is it a big deal? How about if 20 kids did it? Does it make the offense any worse or is it still just kids getting into trouble and stealing? If no one ever committed murder in the history of the world, would it be less of a crime for one person to do it? This reasoning is just nonsense.
I agree that numbers make some sense in this thing. Here's another example for you. Let's say 1 football player beat up some people in a dorm, big deal?
How about 1/4 of the football team? Bigger deal?
Wow! I can't believe all of the pathetic responses on this one. Irish is 100% right and we have our own crap to deal with. College kids who are on the football team went to a party and drank and were arrested for underaged drinking. Yikes! All you complainers need to get a life.
As a GVSU alum, this does not surprise me at all. GVSU was a thug machine when BK was there -- half of the football team would be out on weekends punching holes in bar walls.