Water is also wet.
But I'm not sure that deserves it's own thread either.
ohio state blogs will post literally anything
Water is also wet.
But I'm not sure that deserves it's own thread either.
He was looking purple.
I move that we hereafter refer to Brian Kelly as simply "Grapes"
that nickname is already in use -- don cherry and is 70's styled suits witht he funky collars.
Code Purple: Schadenfreude Attack Imminent
Yeah he tried walking away but Kelly followed him so he could keep screaming.
Looks like RR.
There is a diff between RR wanting the kid to get better and BK telling a kid that he is an effing loser.
I am actually pretty curious about what he called him, I doubt it was not quite as kind as 'loser'. I would say the transcript reads:
"You f***ing kidding me... You f***ing [vision obscured by helmet]" but I think that last one was asshole.
No it doesn't
Your memory of Rich Rodriguez is poor.
Here we go again...
i don't know if it was just the color on the tv i was watching when this happened but that was the most red i have ever seen a person's head. i was torn between laughing and being horrified.
No, the guy was atomic red. Like the surface of Mars or something.
At one point I could see he scalp where he is balding, and that was beat red.
His reaction to the Crist endzone INT was equally embarrassing ans funny at the same time.
Watching those rants make me LOL while also feeling uncomfortable. Its kinda weird.
You're clearly not a lip reader.
He said, "Are you fucking kidding me?"
Im clearly not a lip reader either, but at one point it looks as if he said:
YOURE FUCKING OUT!!! KP style.
Looks Like He Said "You Fuckin' Limp Dick". Cold Blooded.
Ok we have a winner.
That should help us win some recruiting battles
But did Bo direct his tirades at the players? Or the refs?
All the highlights I have seen of Bo show him screaming at officials.
But Kelly cusses out players and assistant coaches like crazy.
I almost feel bad for Crist, that guy looks like an abused puppy. Scared to make a mistake.
Now, I didn't grow up in the Bo era so I could be wrong in my assessment. If so please straighten me out.
The former players I have spoken with (one from the 69 team), said practice with Bo was very hard, and he yelled a lot.
Will have to watch an old game or two on BTN, but I am pretty sure that carried over to the field.
You will find few bigger Bo fans than me. I was a student in his heyday. I do not remember him competely lose it at a player on national television, but he certainly did lose it at officials on national television. Frequently.
He also yelled at the fans (collectively) when we did the wave the first time. (It probably interrupted his offense's snap cadance when we had run up a gazillion to zero lead.) He ran onto the field, faced the student section, and waved his arms and stomped his feet. We laughed, even though we loved him.
Bo yelled at anyone within earshot, and his vocabulary was definitely colorful and complete. Neither Bo nor Woody would be allowed to coach today. They would get railroaded in the Leach/Leavitt/Mangino mode.
If you want politically correct, football probably isn't your game. If yout want discipline, it means people are going to get yelled at and feelings might get hurt. Big fucking deal. Kelly may or may not be a giant douchebag, but holding players personally responsible for their own mistakes is not a determining factor.
They lost to fucking USF. USF is my adopted "home" team, and I am extremely happy about the result, but I can still see what a monumental fuck-up it is on ND's part to lose to USF in South Bend. They lost to a team of two-stars, three-stars, and transfers. Kelly has every right to be extremely pissed at his team's performance. And if that means ruffling a few feathers, so be it.
They are playing a violent sport where a split-second lack of attention by a player can result in a debilitating injury for either the player or a teammate. Kelly is correct to do whatever he can to ensure that they are paying attention. It might not seem like it, but it really is for their own good. If they can't take it, maybe a less-violent "sport" like beer pong would be a better idea.
You can be tough and disciplined without being abusive.
Michigan, of course, has never had an abusive coach. Right? Right? Not Woody Hayes abusive, or Charlie Bradshaw abusive, for sure.
I would say there's a big difference between the way Bo did it and the way Kelly did it yesterday. Bo talked about building guys up during the game, breaking them down in practice. Not the other way around. Besides, when Bo yelled at you, it was because you were letting the team down. To me, Kelly just looks like he's yelling because the players are letting HIM down. It seems subtle, but it is a very important distinction.
Of course, Bo wasn't a saint...but most of his discipline had a specific purpose. The yelling that Kelly did yesterday had no purpose...I'm fairly sure that WR didn't need to be chewed out, he knew the moment the ball doinked him on the head that he made a big mistake. No sense in breaking him down any further.
Letting Kelly down and letting the team down are the exact same thing. Don't let your Michigan colored glasses fool you into thinking that somehow this is a weakness. Sure, he looks like a tool on TV, but 5 turnovers, 3 in the red zone would probably make my head explode with rage.
I would be willing to bet that most of the people talking shit on the board would react in much worse ways if they were in his situation. ND was completly outplaying USF. The should have easily won.
Kelly has had success in every stop in his coaching career. Either this was a one time meltdown, or his MO. If it's a one time thing, its pretty understandable. If this is his way of doing things, it's been pretty successful. Either way, it doesn't make any difference for this week's game.
Let's not rewrite history. Bo yelled and screamed at his players constantly, during games and on TV. He did not care. He would grab players facemasks so they could not get away and scream right in their face.
I worked with a guy that played for Bo when Bo was still at Miami OH. He said that Bo was the meanest SOB he ever knew. That's just the way FB coaches were back in the day.
Martha Nussbaum. That is all.
There's a difference between yelling at a player and totally losing your shit. I can remember Bo yelling at guys who were out of position, blew a play, ran a lazy route, etc... This is clearly not that. This is clearly a guy who has lost his shit. This is a guy berating a player because team is about to lose and the coach is embarrassed. I worked in some of the top restaurants in the area and if there is anyone close to a head football coach, it's an executive chef. I once had one of the best chefs I ever worked for tell me, "If a Chef yells at you and makes personal attacks, belittles you, or degrades you, he's not a very good Chef. He's attacking you because he didn't prepare you properly for what was going to happen that night. If a Chef yells at you about your performance, preperation, your plating, or your execution. It's because he knows you're capable of doing better then what you are." He was one of the biggest hard asses I ever met. He'd yell fro beginning to end of a rush. But he never once got personal with any of us. And at the end of the night, he would shake your hand and thank you for youe hard work. There's a big difference and f you've ever been in both of these situations then you can spot each of them from a mile away.
...but I think the fundamental difference is that when Bo yelled at you it was because you'd let down your teammates. When Kelly yells it's because you've let down Brian Kelly.
And that's another difference you can spot from a mile away.
What was interesting to me was that in this one case that's getting the tv time, Jones really had run a lazy route and some anger might have been called for. But in the context of a game's worth (and probably more, but practices are closed) of indiscriminate ranting, the message doesn't get through.
What an irrational re-writing of Michigan history and speculation wrapped up in Maize-colored glasses.
Both coaches had the same motivation: getting the players to play better so the team wins. If you don't like the yelling, that's fine, but Bo and Kelly were essentially doing it the same way.
then you're calling him a hypocrite or a liar given the fact The Team speech says not to tear down teammates but encourage
He blew up after a loss and punched a member of the opposing team. This is after episodes where he assaulted members of the media. I don't think Woody is such a great example.
Bo was a little different. Yes, he clearly got angry, but he never lost control. The thing that concerns me about Kelly is that he looks like he might lose control.
What exactly did he say? He dropped a few "f" bombs and without a doubt seems very aggressive towards his players but unless he actually directed insults at them its within the 'limits'.
Glad he isn't our Coach... Hoke is intense while simultaneously smooth.
Pretty Sure He Called Him Either A "Fuckin Limp Dick or A Fuckin Asshole". Take Your Pick.
He looked completely out of control. It is one thing to be pissed about poor play but it looked like all he had in his coaching toolbox was to scream.
Maybe he could try actual teaching to help his players improve or make an adjustment or two. All he had was blame. The ND Nation board had some comments about players tuning him out. When all someone has for me is to yell, I tune them out too.
it looked like he said are you f-ing kidding me. for the part where the player isnt in the scene.
There's a subtle line between speaking with demanding authority and being an asshole. I think Kelly crossed it.
Also he reminds me of the whiny, bitchy coaching style of Spurrier, who I also hate.
Yelling only works if you yell what they are supposed to be doing. Insults only create negativity. Calling a kid a f-cking a--hole isn't going to make him understand how to play his position.
And yes I'm posting at 4am. insomnia's a bitch. Or maybe it's the Wendy's double not-sitting-well and allergies going insane combo I've got going tonight.
I'd kill for a Wendy's double right now. I am at work. Need. Wendy's. Double.
I wouldn't consider RR's and Kelly's outbursts very similar at all. Kelly clearly crossed the line there.
College men are sissified these days. What was Kelly supposed to do?
"Awwwww... so you blew the game for us. How about a hug and a juice box...?"
He should have tried tickling him with a stuffed beaver.
Watch Muschamp down in Florida to get a true vision on how he does things. I don't know if it was just for gameday but he yells and gets really angry but he keeps it productive instead of what are you f-ing doing. It is What are you doing! Do it again till you get it right.
Intensity to inspire your players to do better and belittlement is a very fine line and a lot of people shut down when belittled. With that being said hopefully they come in flat and we can get a nice win under the lights
He also blew up at his kicker. His kicker who went 18 for 19 last year. Sometimes kickers miss, does ripping apart his kicker for missing a FG really help the kids confidence? Wouldn't telling the kid, you only missed one all of last year, you can still do the same this year help more?
I know when I lose my shit the first thing I do to make myself feel and look better is rip into my kicker and destroy his confidence. I mean come on isnt it sort of an unwritten rule that you never chew out the kicker? The kids job is tough enough kicking for ND.
If a man is not disciplined enough to control himself, how can he expect his players to be?
Giving out hugs and juice boxes is probably a violation of an NCAA bylaw. You can't even give a kid spread for his bagel until next season.
Not true. NCAA bylaw Q.eleventy-three.pi clearly states that you can give players juice boxes, but only one per quarter, and they must be of rigid construction and utilize a straw no greater than 1/8" diameter. Kool-Aid Bursts and Capri Suns are right out.
Gatorade may be provided in unlimited quantities, but only in the orange, fruit punch, or lemon-lime flavors.
Why does everyone think Brian Kelly is so good?
Regardless of what you think of him as a person, he's a damn good coach. Everywhere he has gone he has made a big-time winner.
Yea man that 51-24 ass whooping Florida gave Cincy in the 2010 Sugar Bowl was def because Kelly wasnt there to coach that game. Cincy being 12-0 prior to that had nothing to do with the Big East, it was all Brian Kelly. Just ask UConn's bad ass football team that made the BCS last season after getting spanked by Michigan in the opener.
And what about his jobs at CMU and GVSU?
People forget that he took over after Dantonio was there for three years building up the program. Say what you will about the guy, but he's proven to be a pretty damn good coach (highest winning percentage at State since Munn). Kelly walks in right as those first Dantonio recruits are becoming upperclassmen and as Petrino and Rodriguez are leaving the Big East. He wins a lot of games (though without really beating anyone of note), then leaves after three years. When his own recruits are becoming upperclassmen, the program craters.
Dantonio is not a bad coach, but come one, you don't think Kelly had anything to do with his record at Cincy?
Dantonio went 7-5, 4-7, 7-5 (he didn't coach the bowl game).
Then Kelly who did very well at GVSU and CMU steps in and goes 1-0 (bowl game), 10-3. 11-3, 12-1.
If Kelly wasn't a good coach (still an unethical coach IMHO), he wouldn't have took cincy where he did based on what Dantonio had.
He went 35-3 in his first three years at Miami. Do you think that is because he is one of the greatest coaches of all time, or because Butch Davis (who went 51-20) left him a ton of awesome players? Notre Dame wasn't good in Weis' first two years because he was awesome at coaching. They didn't go 3-9 in his third year because he sucked at coaching. Lloyd Carr and Bo didn't get worse at their job in 1984 and 2005.
Dantonio made the same leap I'm describing at MSU (6 wins in year three, 11 wins in year four). He didn't suddenly get better at instructing his players and calling plays. And that is against a good year in the Big Ten, not a depleted Big East.
No coach makes a team that much better or worse than any other coach would in a given season. The first few years of any coach's tenure are way more about what is there than about their technical ability on the job. The good ones are the ones who can scout, recruit, and develop talent over a 4-5 year window. Kelly did a nice job at CMU, but he hasn't really shown he can do that at the BCS level.
I thought to myself - I'm glad he was never hired at Michigan. I worked at CMU when Kelly was there. When Lloyd retired and Kelly's name came up on blogs for consideration it seemed like I was one of the few who disapproved. Add this out of control abuse to his players as further evidence that he should not be coaching anywhere. Intensity is fine, dissatisfaction with player performance sure, wanting to correct and teach an expectation - but to belittle, cuss out, verabally assault a player who makes a mistake - he went too far.
He should have sat the player on his lap and told him everything would be okay. Sissified I tells ya!
I agree with the comparison to Rich Rod. A player would be coming off the field and Rodriguez would be screaming at the player with a defeated look on his face. The exact opposite of motivating.
problem with it. Was it a little excessive? Sure. However, being a father now and growing up in the late 80's I think kids today need A LOT more discipline. Kids are so fucking whiney and disrespectful now it's ridiculous. The world today is set up to treat kids, teens and young adults like little babies and I for one am tired of it.
But doesn't that respect start with the head coach?
Is society (wrt sass-talk) very different now than in the '80s? Maybe, but probably not nearly as different as your prospective as a kid versus your prospective as a parent nearing middle age.
I think you could look far and wide before you'd find someone who DOESN'T agree that a football team needs to be disciplined. But why should that be equated with having a grown man scream his tantrum right into a player's facemask?
From what I am reading here, people don't disapprove of a coach being tough and demanding accountability. They disapprove of a coach doing it like Brian Kelly does it.
As for the 1980's I was a teen then as was my husband. I'm a parent now. I don't see a big difference between kids then and kids today. Sure, now they have cell phones, but there was just as wide a range of parenting styles then.
either with your own kids or coaching someone else's kids. Period. It's the lazy way out. Some of the most the screwed up people I know grew up in "strict" households. That doesn't mean that you spoil kids by "babying them" or letting them have everything they want. There are other methods in coaching and parenting than these two extremes.
What do you think the reciever learned from that tirade? "Oh, I better do better next time or coach will abuse me on national TV". Really; you think he didn't know he screwed up? Forget embarrassing. His actions were counter-productive for the team.
When the ND player missed the late field goal I thought for sure he was going to walk over to the USF side of the field. Instead, he faced the abuse like a man.
He is going to have an aneurysm next week. BOOK IT.
What I think you mean is that he will BLOW an aneurysm. People can live with them, the problem is when they rupture.
Par for the course for Kelly.
Go to a practice and you'll see him call kids "f***ing f****ts" and "qu***s" routinely. The camera caught a relatively average Kelly shouting.
Please, if you are going to say such things please give them some truth. Pratices are almost always closed. Stop saying stuff just so you can post.
I have a couple friends that played for Kelly at GVSU. Why would I lie about this?
So you're going to go ahead and assume he still does this, nearly 10 years later. Calling someone a "faggot" or a "queer" wasn't as big of a deal at that time. Doesn't make it right. But it doesn't mean he hasn't taken the words out of his arsenal as they've become more unacceptable. 10 years ago, nobody would give a shit if I called you a retard, except for someone with a mentally disabled family member.
I don't know, I'd argue that things haven't changed as much as we may think/hope in the past 10 years. In general, maybe, but with specific regions or people, some things won't change in just 10 years.
But, fair point. Whether or not the practice is continued can be debated. In Ann Arbor we generally look at these types of slurs as abominations, but in many, many parts of the country that nomenclenture is still alive and well. And I think we can all agree that the football field, in general, is probably a place where homophobia is still pretty rampant.
"Calling someone a "faggot" or a "queer" wasn't as big of a deal at that time." Perhaps this is true in the sense that society as a whole has become more tolerant of homosexuality and has labeled those terms as offensive or politically incorrect, but being called a faggot or a queer in a derogatory sense has never been well-received interpersonally. And even ten years ago I believe that whoever you called a retard would not appreciate that either. Belittling people is not (and never has been) ok, regardless of whether the term one uses to do so is PC or not.
to Notre Dame.
However, he may be entertaing next week at the Big House.
Will they play his rants on the HD scoreboards?
It is one thing to be emotional, but yesterday he was over the top. Bet he blew out a couple of brain cells...his BP must have been stratospheric.
This is normal for BK. Every game he does this a couple times.
there is a saying in education: praise in pubic, punish in private.
i guess BK doesn't subscribe to our news letters
It would be pretty tough to praise in pubic, but I'd love too see someone try ;)
What if someone praised their pubics in public?
Can't see Hoke doing what was shown in the clip, nor will he pass out the juice boxes either when a player screws up. A coach that has the player's respect will get their total effort, a coach that is feared will get just enough effort to keep from incurring their wrath. That is all. Dang, I could go for a juice box right now!
I'd respect a coach that brought juice boxes for a post-practice snack.
"Kelly is an embarrassment". Recruiting is going to suffer.
I don't follow ND, or their boards at all, but those were some pretty level-headed responses. They were right about his lack of composure. This wasn't just yelling at a pleyer, this was a guy completely losing his shit. If I was a ND fan, I would be embarrassed for him, too.
He had some pretty epic explosions of his own.
I was absolutely embarrassed when I saw him go off. I think it shows lack of composure and control, not good coaching. Like the guy several posts below, I used to work in kitchens, where yelling is a way of life. And I always maintained that yelling is the least motivating tactic of getting someone to do something. It's one thing to lose your temper once or twice, but as a management style, it truly doesn't work. It doesn't bring out the best in people, and that's what a leader needs to do.
You're ok in my book.
Growing up playing hockey, where I imagine the yelling from coaches is similar to football, I was always fine getting yelled at for blowing an assignment or being out of position or using improper technique. I would have definitely checked out of a game if a coach ever called me a fucking asshole or a fucking limp dick.
I'd like to see a clip of RR actually insulting a player before the comparisons make sense. Sure he would scream in Denard's face last year, but I don't recall being able to discern insults.
But this is pure biased horseshit. He's not the only coach that ever yelled like that at his players. I thought Rod was going to rip Lewan's head off a couple times. Considering the way that team played yesterday, he had every reason to be upset.
Michigan fans hate Notre Dame's coach, I don't see this as shocking news, but to say that this is sooooo much worse than any other coach is ridiculous. A camera on Bo Pelini for an entire game would make this look like child's play, and Saban is the same way. Saban actually made an NFL player cry at practice when he was the Dolphins coach.
I'm not saying Brian Kelly's methods are right or wrong. What I am saying is I have never been a football coach, and I have no idea what methods work, or don't work.
You might not be a coach, but can't you say as a human being that some guy berating you, screaming at you, swearing at you, probably spitting in your face, on national television, might not be the best way to motivate you?
I don't think players should be coddled, but why is screaming at someone the only other way?
not knowing how that player has been in practice, not knowing what's been tried before, judging from a few moments caught on camera doesn't work so well. For some players, yelling and insults will make them play better.
As an example, in a high school game, I once got clipped as I was pursuing the RB down the far sideline. From our sideline it looked like I just gave up on the ballcarrier and fell down. I got pulled for a series and proceeded to get my ass chewed out by 3 different coaches. This made my attitude of "F everybody, i'll show them". I probably played better in that game, and was vindicated by game film the next day.
I mean, the game is football. When you get yelled at, you can either get angry, and channel/transfer the anger onto the other team, or you can shut yourself down and go into a shell. Most players react in the first fashion. There's usually 1-2 "nice" assistants on a staff that counsel the rest.
is after the player walks away, Kelly follows him and continues to get in his face, all caught on TV.
I hope he keeps it up, loses it more and has every bit caught on TV, so a recruit and his parents can ask 'why would you ever play for a guy like that?'.
Hopefully Michigan gets those recruits because we are winning. And Michigan should focus on stealing Texas, LSU and Alabama recruits.
My dad played high school football in the 70s and they got it worse than any college kid gets it today. I don't think yelling and cussing and calling people names is good coaching but I don't think we need to have stories on 60 Minutes about player's emotional well being.
There were coaches in the '70's that would keep players away from water because it made you weak, take dowel rods and smack the offensive lineman's calfs if they weren't in a stance right, or came off too high ect. Just because it happened in the '70's doesn't make it right.
I have been a coach for over ten years (lower levels) and I have often yelled at players, but I have never berated a player or called them derogatory names. A very well placed tantrum can do wonders, but always keep it to performance, and never personal. Not every kid takes well to hard coaching. A coaches job is to find what motivates each athlete and use it. If I an reading lips correctly, the F'ing asshole comment was too far. I don't think the "Are you F'ing kidding me?" is wrong as it's not berating the kid. Kelly needs to find a line that works for his team. Obviously, his line and his players line are different.
BTW - I would be removed if I ever used that language in front of my kids.
I played in the "old days" and I can tell you from experience, while excessive screaming might yield some short term gains, it's a destructive approach that's not good for the development of the young men. I'm all for toughness and disclipline, but it shouldn't be done in this manner. A brief yell followed by instruction is fine, but a continued rant like Kelly did is just plain wrong and I don't care if Woody or Bo ever did the same thing.
Agreed. Let's not go back there. As a kid I read Meat on the Hoof by a former Texas player (played under Darrell Royal), and the stuff they went through was not anything anyone should have to go through, even in fear of sissification...
but RichRod seemed to do this a lot. I always got the feeling guys were walking on pins and needles on the sidelines after a bad play. This is football and I think that there are definitely times to get in somebody's face to get them fired up, but nobody is learning anything when you're yelling in their face like that. From how much Brian Kelly was doing that on the sideline last night you can't help but feel there were a ton of coaching opportunities that were missed.
but how much of Rich Rod's yelling was personal insults, I mean people aren't complaining because Brian Kelly yelled at a player, it's what he yelled at a player... I saw Rodriguez get angry last year and yell, but I never saw him call a player a Fucking anything.
Look at the expressions on his coaching assistants. Cronies scared of their boss, trying to mimic his disgust to win his favor. Products of an ego-driven leader ... tyranny, fear, and intimidation. These do not lead to long-term success. Too bad for ND.
Does he remind anyone else of Baron Harkonnen?
Didn't see your comment before I left mine. Mostly agreed.
Brian Kelly needs MOAR BOILS!
"The beast is WITHIN YOU!"
This is typical behavior for arrogant, smarmy aholes who are crumbling under pressure. They never accept responsibility so they take out their frustration on underlings (players) to make themselves feel better. This jerk is not having his grand vision play out like he thought so he has to take it out on the kids. I hope we beat them by 30 next week.
4 hour delay.
Those assistant coaches look embarassed. The white one also looks terrified.
While we can probably draw some parallels between Kelly's tirade and coaches of the 60s-70s, this is a different generation. Kids playing in the 60s and 70s were on the whole mentally tougher and were used to this treatment (although maybe Kelly even overstepped past precedent) after being raised by the generation that survived the Great Depression and fought in WW2. My generation (the current player generation) of college athlete, especially in big time football, has been coddled from the time they hit puberty, and it became evident that they were going to be area high school superstars. Recruiting websites, blogs, and even ESPN have taken these kids from the age of 16 and made them soft from all of the attention. Think about it, aside from a few 1970s NFL select superstars, top high school football players today receive more attention today with social media than the average NFL player did 40 years ago. Therefore, they receive no criticism and are treated like NFL primadonnas before they ever actually achieve anything of substance.
My point is that Kelly is an idiot and is going to lose his team. Players in the last generation could probably handle it, but these 18-21 year olds (in general), are going to shut him out, form their little dissenting circles, and this reign could end with a greater thud than their last few coaching failures.
On a side note, do you think the alumni brass liked seeing their coach dropping F-bombs at 19 year olds on national television? Way to represent that fine / proud university.
at officials, at his staff and at his players. By today's standards and advancements in human psychology, his verbal tirades back then probably would be considered way "over the line".
Most of us were simply not around to see it. He was definitely no saint as far as verbal abuse goes. But in the end it toughened up his players, and increased the focus of those around him. And he knew it.
Here he is saying something other than "great job" to the guys in the booth.The phonetic sound forming appears to be a "ffffffffffffff". SE Curt Stephenson in the background trying to keep his distance, head tilted a bit like "aww man!". Then again, maybe Bo's just ordering up a "35 belly flat pass"? Probably not.
I think coach-to-player verbal abuse is the rule, not the exception in modern college football. Have to remember that some of these kids show up with major H.S. accolades and think they can just go through the motions or do whatever they hell they want on Saturday. Those days are over. At this level players have to follow the game plan, play like a team, minimize mistakes and pull their heads out fast.
I'm just surprised that people think life is any different?
What? There are no abusive bosses out there? Everyone spouts off rainbows of sonnets and pallets of human dignity and respect.
The answer is no.
I like this line from Glenngary Glen Ross from Blake, the successful and wealthy agent on a so-called "mission of mercy" to an underperforming downtown affiliate branch:
BLAKE: That watch costs more than you car. I made $970,000 last year. How much you make? You see pal, that's who I am, and you're nothing. Nice guy? I don't give a shit. Good father? Fuck you! Go home and play with your kids. You wanna work here - close! You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can't take this, how can you take the abuse you get on a sit? You don't like it, leave.
Not pleasant to hear, but there's truth in it.
...that kind of out-of-control tirade in front of clients or other third parties is very rare and is usually career threatening. Coaching is just about the only profession left where you can get away with it.
Do you have any actual experience with that kind of abuse in the work place? Do you realize that Alec Baldwin speech was for dramatic effect? If you consistently abuse people like that, they shut down and stop doing good work and then they leave and go work for someone who's not a prick.
This is especially true for public berating. If you want to yell at someone, do it in private. If you embarass them in front of their peers, there's a good chance they're out. If you embarass them on national television, there's an even better chance.
Frankly even if the kid has his head turned around he still got the ball absolutely pegged at him from 7 yards away right at his ear. It could very well have flown up even if he were looking for it and it would have been a good catch to snare it. If you're going to throw the ball that hard from that close it better be on target and that wasn't on target.
You do realize that you are referencing a movie scene that is well known because it IS over the top.
Does Kelly berating his kicker who went 18 of 19 last year for missing a FG help?
Kelly has a track record:
-Played Crist with concussion symptoms even though Crist has a history of concussions.
-Despite high winds in the news for days he had a kid up a forklift that died.
-The player accused of rape never was suspended for a game even after the girl committed suicide.
-At CMU he handled the murder investigation of his player poorly to say the least, some accused him of cover up and then his comments about black culture having violence and not liking snitches wasn't so swell.
-At GVSU I know of a girl who was a student there when Kelly was coached that claims that he had a system set up to blatantly allow his players to cheat in the classroom.
As far as I am concerned we dodged a bullet by avoiding Kelly.
Jeez now that you put it in perspective like that im shocked that this guy is still coaching at ND, I had no idea about some of that stuff. These kinds of situations can really tarnish the respecability of a program in ways that go beyond transgressions like improper benefits or lack of institutional control. I mean murder? Rape? Suicides? Not good stuff.
the reason he is still coaching at nd is because that isn't really what happened:
1. for better or worse, notre dame's training staff did not diagnose crist with a concussion and cleared him to return. neither crist nor his savvy family have any issue with what happened.
2. after an detailed investigation by the university, kelly was not found to have any responsibility for the death of declan sullivan. essentially, the conclusion is that the head football coach of the team is responsible for many things, but not for every football related event on earth.
3. the accusation was not rape, but rather "touching a girl's breasts" at a party. the allegation was investigated and thought to be unture. the chicago tribune ran with the story, because, well it was a saucy story, but there was very little substance to the allegatation.
4. don't know much about what happened about cmu
5. obviously know nothing about this, but 2nd hand word-of-mouth on internet message board doesn't qualify as the most impressive source from my perspective.
of those events, the only one that worries me as a potential indictment of kelly is the sullivan death - which is much more complex than was projected here, but is worrisome nonetheless. the other were situations where kelly acted on the reasonable judgements of professionals that are paid to make just those types of professional judgements.
Detailed investigation on number 2 my fucking ass. My. Fucking. Ass.
That was a run around that was allowed because the family, for whatever reason, decided not to pursue it. That was a corruption of justice and a farce. That was powerful people treating a tragic, very easily avoidable death like an inconvenience because to them that's what it was.
Let's look at the Crist situation.
Kelly said it was an "ocular migraine". A trainer initially said it was a concussion and then withdrew it.
1) Started after a blow to the head. Fits a concussion not an ocular migraine.
2) Slurred speech. Fits a concussion not an ocular migraine.
3) Loss of memory. Fits a concussion not an ocular migraine.
4) He has a history of concussions. Fits a concussion not an ocular migraine.
5) Headache. Fits both.
6) Vision problems. Fits both.
You are an adult and leader. Should Crist play with all of those symptoms knowing that he could literally die with another concussion?
Let's look at Declan Sullivan.
Kelly is paid to be an adult and leader. There were high speed winds on the news headlines for days. The kid is up a scissor lift. Shouldn't the adult in charge get him down? Common sense. Now the kid is dead.
Now let's look at the sexual assault. The ND police did nothing and the ND coaches did not suspend him. Shouldn't they at least sit him after the girt commits suicide to at least sort out the situation. The girl's family felt as if ND was stonewalling any investigation into the accusation.
Now let's look at CMU. In a muder investigation where Chip players were the suspects some people accused him of trying to cover up any information and silence players from talking. He responded: "A number of them were African-Americans that had been in that culture of violence, and they're taught to look away, You don't want anything to do with it. Get out of there. You don't say anything to anybody."
I know my information on GVSU isn't solid and it probably happens everywhere, but I can swear on my grandma's grave that a highly responsible (and successful) female student at GVSU claimed that it was blatant cheating on tests in the classroom and even the professor was in on it. The professor would have her move her arm so the football players on each side could copy her test and she was stonewalled when she complained.
I don't do it or believe it's the right thing to do.
But you cannot deny how verbal abuse, humiliation and loud, angry and public tirades do serve to motivate people. The fuel is anger and fear, but it motiviates. Otherwise they would not utilize this tactic in high school, college and the military.
But I agree that there's a ton of substantiated evidence that suggests that berating and verbally abusing (name-calling, put downs, etc.) young people is completely counter-productive.
Remember, these are 18 year old kids who can vote for President and die in foreign wars.
Are they not adults?
Legally yes, developmentally, no. The latest research on brain development indicate that the human brain is not fully developed until approximately 25 years of age.
And yes, fear can serve as a motivator for a short period of time, but will eventually lead to resentment of the one inducing it. The military can get away with this* for prolonged periods because once you have enlisted you can't just walk away (or believe me, many would).
I believe if BK continues to behave this way towards his players he will lose them. They have many other school options from which to choose.
*The military is actually moving away from this form of "motivation".
Also no suspension of his best player despite a DUI plus two lesser drinking offenses. Total hypocrite.
Kelly had a similar blow-up after Crist threw that endzone pick in the first half.
I had a good chuckle when my dad, the non-sports fan of the family, saw that tirade pictured above and called Kelly an "asshole." Kelly's face was so red on our television that it had all of us laughing.
for a long time. I'm sure he didn't turn over a new leaf while at Notre Dame.
This is his MO. He needs to cover his mouth because he articulates his words too perfectly
NBC TV does a nice job of getting his reactions on the broadcasts. In the USF game he totally went ballistic on one of his own staff. Kelly's lips read: "What the f*$% is going on!!??" and his sideline assistant with headphones on protested a bit to explain, then looked clearly upset.
Here's to more frustration upon Kelly and his staff in Ann Arbor....
NBC showing Kelly tirades is all very interesting when you consider that this sort of PR could be bad for the program. You'd think the school would tell NBC, "dont pan to Kelly every time we shit the bed" because NBC is essentially putting out a very negative persona of the ND coach (whether deserved or not) to a national audience.
Kelly's post game press conference and he actually said something about a player "losing composure" or something to that effect. Hypocritical asshole.
I can't imagine ND administration is comfortable with him representing the university that way - on TWO TV channels.
As in beet red:
I would have lost my scholarship because I would have punched him in his damn face if he ever screamed at me in that manner. You save that for behind closed doors.
Thank you very much. I needed this gif.
Brian Kelly let a kid die through neglience. He's an asshole.
This is nothing.
I saw Hoke get in BWC's face at the game after a special teams' play. He kinda shouted then knocked on his helmet. Looked like a "get your head in the game!" rather than "ZOMGEATBABIES."
I don't believe that Jones caused that tirade. He just lost his composure, so did RR, Bo Pelini, so have every coach in D1. Everything accumulated that Jones ran a sloppy route, didn't look for the ball, and it was picked off and you can't play with emotion when you are playing against a good team. If they were have scored on that drive, I believe that Notre Dame would have came back and won that game. Instead it is a turnover at the opponents 5 yard line. That changed the entire second half for ND.
we do this with every ND coach. "This" being finding minor character flaws and tssk tssk-ing them as national televsion embarrassments.
But every recent ND coach has also proven a failure.
A minor character flaw? He has major character flaws.
Who has a kid up a scissor lift with wind storms for days. Plays a player with a track record of concussions suffering from concussion symptoms. Acts so poorly that some accuse him of trying to cover up info during a murder investigation and then claiming that African-American culture has violence and hates snitches. Doesn't suspend a player accused of rape even after her suicide.
about those things then by all means go ahead. I'm not even saying he is a great guy or a great person or that his reaction is an effective method of coaching. I just don't agree with taking a clip of a guy swearing at (or in front of a player) and using it as proof all of the things you suspect or don't like about him.
Try finding that clip of any other current Top 25 coach (much less one of a program that prides itself on character, e.g. BYU/Stanford/Michigan/ND).
Bo Pelini is maybe your best bet, but he also didn't kill a kid in scissor lift or try to sweep a rape investigation under the rug. And I'm not a huge fan of Pelini's demeanor either.
You have a point that fans tend to overdo it.
In example, Weis..... Arrogant sure. Swears a bit, yep. Fat, yeah we had petty jokes for that. Weis probably isn't a bad guy overall and I think most people knew that.
This is different. I sincerely think Kelly isn't respectable. I would rather have any of the other 119 D-1A coaches over that guy not on the grounds of coaching ability, but on the grounds of wanting to be able to cheer for my head coach as a person.
See, e.g., the comments here on ND Nation. Lots of comments to the effect that although the loss was tough to swallow, Kelly's behavior was worse than losing and indeed unacceptable.
when your team wins and your coach screams, he's a great motivator. when your team loses and your coach screams, he's a jerk.
when your coach wins and your coach is stoic, he is a sterling leader. when your team loses and your coach is stoic, he's not an adquate motivator.
opposing fans always find fault with other team's coaches personalities. your own fans find fault only when you lose. college football teams have enshrined various coaches who were pathologic screamers and pathologicly stoic as legends...because they won. notre dame fans are talking about kelly this morning because the team was incredibly sloppy and lost a game they shoudnt' have lost...and people are pissed at kelly. when you're pissed at somebody, you find fault with their every behavior.
the other reason we hear about sideline personality is because the obvious stuff isn't as interesting to talk about. notre dame turned it over 5 times, 3 times inside the 5 yard line and missed a chipshot field goal - if any of those things hadn't happened, they likely would have won the game. of course brian kelly was pissed. i was pissed...and i'm used to this sort of thing at this point.
i don't care one way or the other what brian kelly does but he will lose players and possibly his team witht his kind of actions. you could see it in the players face as he's screaming at them. when someone is yelling at you like that you're not taking in what they're saying you're just thinking when is this asshole going to get out of my face. now i don't know if kelly maybe has a bad cop/good cop thing going where he just blows up and then when he's done with his tirade one of his assistants goes and talks to the kid calmly and actually tries to correct them on what they did wrong. either way it's entertaining to watch and i hope there's a few epics on the sidelines next weekend.
After the INT, Kelly yelled at the WR when he should have been yelling at Rees. The pass was thrown behind the WR and looked as if it hit his shoulder pad. Kelly continued to ream out the wrong player even after Rees appeared to try to tell him that the pass was his fault. Guess you can't blame Kelly too much, there aren't any video boards to view a replay.
This. That pass was a bad pass even if the kid is looking for it. Rees zinged it at his ear from 7 yards away. That's a great a catch if he makes it and more likely gets tipped up with the same effect.
...was when Rees threw the touchdown to Floyd and came off the field to the celebrations of his teammates and looked up and saw Crist standing there. His eyes got a little hard and Crist looked away and didn't even congratulate Rees or gesture toward him... he just turned his head and stepped aside a little. That was a weird moment. But maybe I am remembering it wrong...
Really, really hates it.
To me, what's bothersome is not so much the yelling/profanity (which I don't love, but a lot of coaches do it) but that he seems unable to control his own emotions. After a display like this, would you have faith in him to make a good coaching decision on the next play? He might be stewing so much over the previous play that he can't make a rational judgment on the next.
But this looks to be over the line. You can't scream at a kid with hatred in your eyes. I don't think RR ever did that.
...Tom Landry-like, is he? LOL
...Tom Landry-like, is he? LOL
Must be that ND brings out the best in people.
"disgrace"? It's D1 football... not pop warner.... some of y'all need to grow a pair.
I can't think of many great coaches who so regularly cursed and embarrassed their own players on national tv. They'd scream in the lockerroom, sure. But nothing like this.
I don't know a lot about Kelly personally, but I do know he can coach football having seen firsthand his GVSU and CMU teams. I also don't know much about him covering for his players anymore than any other coach does. I do know that I haven't seen him go off like that before, and in my very limited experience with coaches (through basketball) the only time we I ever got yelled at like that it was because I was playing lax. I was singled out at halftime and it was personal, and I responded by playing one of the best halfs of my career even though I was almost brought to tears at half. The only question I would have of Kelly is if this berating is consistent. In my experience in watching his teams, he seems balanced in giving criticism and praise, and there are several instances where he has fought for his players. Everyone has a bad day, and there is no doubt he probably went overboard, but it's no surprise to see many died in the wool Michigan fans go overboard in response. I fully expect ND to be ready next week. Kelly is not the first coach to rip a player on national TV, hell, Woody beat his players! The one thing I like about our staff at Michigan is that they teach, prepare and adjust. I think M will be ready next week, and to hell with ND anyway.
Well now you know why they are an independent school. Brian Kelly is the new Rich Rod of college football.
I don't know much about Kelly, but his record at GVSU, CMU, & Cincinnati suggests that he can coach. In terms of berating players I would need to see more than one example to pass judgment. None of us wants to be judged by our worst moments.
he may or may not be a "douchebag," but you sure can't tell by whether he yells at someone on the sideline. every. single. coach. yells at his players at some point...whether they're winning or losing.
The look on the 2 guys' faces standing behind BK.
Brady hoke would never do that to his players. I was at the game on Saturday and after every play he would tell each and every player a high five or say something to them.... That's the Michigan difference...