If a man is not disciplined enough to control himself, how can he expect his players to be?
frank beamer #1
If a man is not disciplined enough to control himself, how can he expect his players to be?
Giving out hugs and juice boxes is probably a violation of an NCAA bylaw. You can't even give a kid spread for his bagel until next season.
Not true. NCAA bylaw Q.eleventy-three.pi clearly states that you can give players juice boxes, but only one per quarter, and they must be of rigid construction and utilize a straw no greater than 1/8" diameter. Kool-Aid Bursts and Capri Suns are right out.
Gatorade may be provided in unlimited quantities, but only in the orange, fruit punch, or lemon-lime flavors.
Why does everyone think Brian Kelly is so good?
Regardless of what you think of him as a person, he's a damn good coach. Everywhere he has gone he has made a big-time winner.
Yea man that 51-24 ass whooping Florida gave Cincy in the 2010 Sugar Bowl was def because Kelly wasnt there to coach that game. Cincy being 12-0 prior to that had nothing to do with the Big East, it was all Brian Kelly. Just ask UConn's bad ass football team that made the BCS last season after getting spanked by Michigan in the opener.
And what about his jobs at CMU and GVSU?
People forget that he took over after Dantonio was there for three years building up the program. Say what you will about the guy, but he's proven to be a pretty damn good coach (highest winning percentage at State since Munn). Kelly walks in right as those first Dantonio recruits are becoming upperclassmen and as Petrino and Rodriguez are leaving the Big East. He wins a lot of games (though without really beating anyone of note), then leaves after three years. When his own recruits are becoming upperclassmen, the program craters.
Dantonio is not a bad coach, but come one, you don't think Kelly had anything to do with his record at Cincy?
Dantonio went 7-5, 4-7, 7-5 (he didn't coach the bowl game).
Then Kelly who did very well at GVSU and CMU steps in and goes 1-0 (bowl game), 10-3. 11-3, 12-1.
If Kelly wasn't a good coach (still an unethical coach IMHO), he wouldn't have took cincy where he did based on what Dantonio had.
He went 35-3 in his first three years at Miami. Do you think that is because he is one of the greatest coaches of all time, or because Butch Davis (who went 51-20) left him a ton of awesome players? Notre Dame wasn't good in Weis' first two years because he was awesome at coaching. They didn't go 3-9 in his third year because he sucked at coaching. Lloyd Carr and Bo didn't get worse at their job in 1984 and 2005.
Dantonio made the same leap I'm describing at MSU (6 wins in year three, 11 wins in year four). He didn't suddenly get better at instructing his players and calling plays. And that is against a good year in the Big Ten, not a depleted Big East.
No coach makes a team that much better or worse than any other coach would in a given season. The first few years of any coach's tenure are way more about what is there than about their technical ability on the job. The good ones are the ones who can scout, recruit, and develop talent over a 4-5 year window. Kelly did a nice job at CMU, but he hasn't really shown he can do that at the BCS level.
I thought to myself - I'm glad he was never hired at Michigan. I worked at CMU when Kelly was there. When Lloyd retired and Kelly's name came up on blogs for consideration it seemed like I was one of the few who disapproved. Add this out of control abuse to his players as further evidence that he should not be coaching anywhere. Intensity is fine, dissatisfaction with player performance sure, wanting to correct and teach an expectation - but to belittle, cuss out, verabally assault a player who makes a mistake - he went too far.
He should have sat the player on his lap and told him everything would be okay. Sissified I tells ya!
I agree with the comparison to Rich Rod. A player would be coming off the field and Rodriguez would be screaming at the player with a defeated look on his face. The exact opposite of motivating.
problem with it. Was it a little excessive? Sure. However, being a father now and growing up in the late 80's I think kids today need A LOT more discipline. Kids are so fucking whiney and disrespectful now it's ridiculous. The world today is set up to treat kids, teens and young adults like little babies and I for one am tired of it.
But doesn't that respect start with the head coach?
Is society (wrt sass-talk) very different now than in the '80s? Maybe, but probably not nearly as different as your prospective as a kid versus your prospective as a parent nearing middle age.
I think you could look far and wide before you'd find someone who DOESN'T agree that a football team needs to be disciplined. But why should that be equated with having a grown man scream his tantrum right into a player's facemask?
From what I am reading here, people don't disapprove of a coach being tough and demanding accountability. They disapprove of a coach doing it like Brian Kelly does it.
As for the 1980's I was a teen then as was my husband. I'm a parent now. I don't see a big difference between kids then and kids today. Sure, now they have cell phones, but there was just as wide a range of parenting styles then.
either with your own kids or coaching someone else's kids. Period. It's the lazy way out. Some of the most the screwed up people I know grew up in "strict" households. That doesn't mean that you spoil kids by "babying them" or letting them have everything they want. There are other methods in coaching and parenting than these two extremes.
What do you think the reciever learned from that tirade? "Oh, I better do better next time or coach will abuse me on national TV". Really; you think he didn't know he screwed up? Forget embarrassing. His actions were counter-productive for the team.
When the ND player missed the late field goal I thought for sure he was going to walk over to the USF side of the field. Instead, he faced the abuse like a man.
He is going to have an aneurysm next week. BOOK IT.
What I think you mean is that he will BLOW an aneurysm. People can live with them, the problem is when they rupture.
Par for the course for Kelly.
Go to a practice and you'll see him call kids "f***ing f****ts" and "qu***s" routinely. The camera caught a relatively average Kelly shouting.
Please, if you are going to say such things please give them some truth. Pratices are almost always closed. Stop saying stuff just so you can post.
I have a couple friends that played for Kelly at GVSU. Why would I lie about this?
So you're going to go ahead and assume he still does this, nearly 10 years later. Calling someone a "faggot" or a "queer" wasn't as big of a deal at that time. Doesn't make it right. But it doesn't mean he hasn't taken the words out of his arsenal as they've become more unacceptable. 10 years ago, nobody would give a shit if I called you a retard, except for someone with a mentally disabled family member.
I don't know, I'd argue that things haven't changed as much as we may think/hope in the past 10 years. In general, maybe, but with specific regions or people, some things won't change in just 10 years.
But, fair point. Whether or not the practice is continued can be debated. In Ann Arbor we generally look at these types of slurs as abominations, but in many, many parts of the country that nomenclenture is still alive and well. And I think we can all agree that the football field, in general, is probably a place where homophobia is still pretty rampant.
"Calling someone a "faggot" or a "queer" wasn't as big of a deal at that time." Perhaps this is true in the sense that society as a whole has become more tolerant of homosexuality and has labeled those terms as offensive or politically incorrect, but being called a faggot or a queer in a derogatory sense has never been well-received interpersonally. And even ten years ago I believe that whoever you called a retard would not appreciate that either. Belittling people is not (and never has been) ok, regardless of whether the term one uses to do so is PC or not.
to Notre Dame.
However, he may be entertaing next week at the Big House.
Will they play his rants on the HD scoreboards?
It is one thing to be emotional, but yesterday he was over the top. Bet he blew out a couple of brain cells...his BP must have been stratospheric.
This is normal for BK. Every game he does this a couple times.
there is a saying in education: praise in pubic, punish in private.
i guess BK doesn't subscribe to our news letters
It would be pretty tough to praise in pubic, but I'd love too see someone try ;)
What if someone praised their pubics in public?
Can't see Hoke doing what was shown in the clip, nor will he pass out the juice boxes either when a player screws up. A coach that has the player's respect will get their total effort, a coach that is feared will get just enough effort to keep from incurring their wrath. That is all. Dang, I could go for a juice box right now!
I'd respect a coach that brought juice boxes for a post-practice snack.
"Kelly is an embarrassment". Recruiting is going to suffer.
I don't follow ND, or their boards at all, but those were some pretty level-headed responses. They were right about his lack of composure. This wasn't just yelling at a pleyer, this was a guy completely losing his shit. If I was a ND fan, I would be embarrassed for him, too.
He had some pretty epic explosions of his own.
I was absolutely embarrassed when I saw him go off. I think it shows lack of composure and control, not good coaching. Like the guy several posts below, I used to work in kitchens, where yelling is a way of life. And I always maintained that yelling is the least motivating tactic of getting someone to do something. It's one thing to lose your temper once or twice, but as a management style, it truly doesn't work. It doesn't bring out the best in people, and that's what a leader needs to do.
You're ok in my book.
Growing up playing hockey, where I imagine the yelling from coaches is similar to football, I was always fine getting yelled at for blowing an assignment or being out of position or using improper technique. I would have definitely checked out of a game if a coach ever called me a fucking asshole or a fucking limp dick.
I'd like to see a clip of RR actually insulting a player before the comparisons make sense. Sure he would scream in Denard's face last year, but I don't recall being able to discern insults.
But this is pure biased horseshit. He's not the only coach that ever yelled like that at his players. I thought Rod was going to rip Lewan's head off a couple times. Considering the way that team played yesterday, he had every reason to be upset.
Michigan fans hate Notre Dame's coach, I don't see this as shocking news, but to say that this is sooooo much worse than any other coach is ridiculous. A camera on Bo Pelini for an entire game would make this look like child's play, and Saban is the same way. Saban actually made an NFL player cry at practice when he was the Dolphins coach.
I'm not saying Brian Kelly's methods are right or wrong. What I am saying is I have never been a football coach, and I have no idea what methods work, or don't work.
You might not be a coach, but can't you say as a human being that some guy berating you, screaming at you, swearing at you, probably spitting in your face, on national television, might not be the best way to motivate you?
I don't think players should be coddled, but why is screaming at someone the only other way?
not knowing how that player has been in practice, not knowing what's been tried before, judging from a few moments caught on camera doesn't work so well. For some players, yelling and insults will make them play better.
As an example, in a high school game, I once got clipped as I was pursuing the RB down the far sideline. From our sideline it looked like I just gave up on the ballcarrier and fell down. I got pulled for a series and proceeded to get my ass chewed out by 3 different coaches. This made my attitude of "F everybody, i'll show them". I probably played better in that game, and was vindicated by game film the next day.
I mean, the game is football. When you get yelled at, you can either get angry, and channel/transfer the anger onto the other team, or you can shut yourself down and go into a shell. Most players react in the first fashion. There's usually 1-2 "nice" assistants on a staff that counsel the rest.
is after the player walks away, Kelly follows him and continues to get in his face, all caught on TV.
I hope he keeps it up, loses it more and has every bit caught on TV, so a recruit and his parents can ask 'why would you ever play for a guy like that?'.
Hopefully Michigan gets those recruits because we are winning. And Michigan should focus on stealing Texas, LSU and Alabama recruits.
My dad played high school football in the 70s and they got it worse than any college kid gets it today. I don't think yelling and cussing and calling people names is good coaching but I don't think we need to have stories on 60 Minutes about player's emotional well being.
There were coaches in the '70's that would keep players away from water because it made you weak, take dowel rods and smack the offensive lineman's calfs if they weren't in a stance right, or came off too high ect. Just because it happened in the '70's doesn't make it right.
I have been a coach for over ten years (lower levels) and I have often yelled at players, but I have never berated a player or called them derogatory names. A very well placed tantrum can do wonders, but always keep it to performance, and never personal. Not every kid takes well to hard coaching. A coaches job is to find what motivates each athlete and use it. If I an reading lips correctly, the F'ing asshole comment was too far. I don't think the "Are you F'ing kidding me?" is wrong as it's not berating the kid. Kelly needs to find a line that works for his team. Obviously, his line and his players line are different.
BTW - I would be removed if I ever used that language in front of my kids.
I played in the "old days" and I can tell you from experience, while excessive screaming might yield some short term gains, it's a destructive approach that's not good for the development of the young men. I'm all for toughness and disclipline, but it shouldn't be done in this manner. A brief yell followed by instruction is fine, but a continued rant like Kelly did is just plain wrong and I don't care if Woody or Bo ever did the same thing.
Agreed. Let's not go back there. As a kid I read Meat on the Hoof by a former Texas player (played under Darrell Royal), and the stuff they went through was not anything anyone should have to go through, even in fear of sissification...
but RichRod seemed to do this a lot. I always got the feeling guys were walking on pins and needles on the sidelines after a bad play. This is football and I think that there are definitely times to get in somebody's face to get them fired up, but nobody is learning anything when you're yelling in their face like that. From how much Brian Kelly was doing that on the sideline last night you can't help but feel there were a ton of coaching opportunities that were missed.