I have no problem with this statement. The media can spin it however, but it's the truth, and Graham doesn't come off sounding like Trent.
Peppers at 10, which seems low.
I have no problem with this statement. The media can spin it however, but it's the truth, and Graham doesn't come off sounding like Trent.
exactly what a lot of people are saying. I've read a million times on here that Coach Rod has to win next year. Now, he doesn't have to win the Big Ten title or the National Championship-but he has to win.
This really isn't anything new. But let's remember that BG isn't the decision maker either. That comes down to MSC and Dave Brandon.
The easy answer to this is "WIN."
I think he is echoing what Coach Rod knows to be true. If the media spins it negatively we'll all know it's BS - but I suppose that we know everything they say is BS anyway...
just stating what most of us on this board feel to be the truth about RR's future. He needs to win this year.
Eight wins would solidify his position. I'm not sure seven would cut it.
I think it depends which 7 wins they are. For example, a win over OSU to enhance our bowl standing to me would almost assure he would come back even if we only have 7. But I don't think RR can afford 7 wins with bad losses to teams like Indiana, ND, Purdue, etc
Agreed. 7 wins, including PSU, MSU and OSU and RR keeps his job. Of course he beats those teams, he better be eating everyone else on the schedule and bringing in a higher win season. So lets say he needs two quality wins, one against a rival and one against a ranked B10 team, with a ranked OSU being a double bonus.
7 wins, but beating a 1st year Brian Kelly Team, our three body bag games and weak B10 teams and RR is likely gone.
I think that it also depends on how the offense plays. If we are scoring 30+ a game but only win 6 or 7 due to our defense still being in shambles I could see Rich Rod getting another year since we are still sooooooo fucking young on defense. I can already feel Gerg getting set up as the "Oswald" like fall guy if we struggle at all.
Going through another DC is not an option for RR - it would another reflection of his judgment that his tenuous position could not withstand.
I'm not sure...our defense has Big Ten level talent with MAC level depth. He will get the blame if they fail but some of this situation is out of his control. I personally feel that the defense is still a year away from being an average B10 defense.
October and November last year. It was absolutely a different mantra.
... I miss September.
Never was there a better hype video than the hype video that Brian made for last years team.
The bar is set pretty damn high Brian et al for the next hype video. I double dog dare you to match it!
that 7 wins would not make Rich Rod lose his job. I feel like Dave Brandon is going to give him more time if he wins 7. And if we'r not healthy (knock's on wood) than i would want Coach Rod to stay even if we won 6 games couse even some of the better teams out there can be average if they get hit by the injury bug.
I look at the last two years as transitional, so it's almost like it should be a fresh slate for him this year. ... I know it's not, but that's my opinion.
count 2008 against Coach Rod? We lost a ton of talent to the draft on the offensive side of the ball and had two QB's who were questionably D-1 talent who did not fit the style of offense. I don't know if Yost, Crisler or Bo could have won with that team.
Coach Rod needs to win this year but I hope Brandon allows him to come back in 2011 as a final evaluative season.
Which Brandon are you referring to? :)
Domino's Dave Brandon
The 2008 team was the worst team we've ever fielded, IMO, and their failures were anything but RR&staffs' fault. No way you can hold 08 against him, unless you have an agenda.
RichRod was also working on other things in 2008, like installing the new playbook, Barwisizing the players, and recruiting (for both the 2008 and 2009 classes).
So while it's true that the 3-8 record should probably just be forgotten about, that doesn't mean that we weren't using that year to build for the future.
BG is just saying what everyone knows is true. This is one of the few Lloyd Carr recruits who was "all in" from day one. I don't remember the exact quote, but I remember last offseason he mentioned that the 2008 defense had some divisive players on it. We now know who one of those players was. Graham is one of my favorite Michigan players of all time. Short of calling for Rich to be fired, he can say anything he damn well pleases.
of people calling for RR's head on a platter if the losses are bad ones to ND, MSU, and OSU, especially the last two.
at 9 wins, but they'll be there. I suspect it will take a few successful seasons with victories over rivals, some better PR management, and cessation of drama to quiet this bunch.
This 2010 team is still young, and although these challenges could work to galvinize the players, there's also the chance the pressure to win will be a big burden for them.
I think if Rich and team manage to pull out a 9-3 season, a whole lot of the detractors go underground. It was real quiet at 4-0 last year. The negative commenters on annarbor.com, etc. just faded away until Zoltan went all rogue in the MSU game.
At 7-5, unless one of those wins is OSU, it will still be very noisy. Especially since whatever agreement we reach with the NCAA will occur mid-season.
At 8-4, I think the noise gets less threatening, especially if it includes an over .500 Big Ten campaign beating either Penn State or OSU away, and 2-3 wins in November with at least a competitive game against OSU to leave us with feeling better in anticipation of a bowl game.
Yes, because anyone upset about 3 Big 10 wins in 2 years is so patently unreasonable that they would also be displeased with a 9-3 record.
Get real. Anyone who demands that Rich Rod be fired if we go 9-3 next year will be laughed out of town.
...thus rendering the speculation moot.
The violations will be called "major" but with minor penalties. MSU and OSU trolls will have something else to drive into the ground for the next twenty years, but UM will be driving them into the ground on the field, especially MSU.
The next win over OSU will start the pendulum going the other way until Tressel eventually quits or is fired. And if they decide to hit Pryor early, often, and low(but legal), that coule be as early as this year.
Pryor's torso is so big that they can hit him all they want and he will shake it off. A few hits to the legs, though, might tell a different story. All they have to do is get him thinking more about the next hit than the play he is running and OSU's impending "storybook" season will not have a happy ending.
Yes, I'm already thinking about OSU in March. And I'm pretty sure everybody in the UM athletic department is, too.
Yep. Nothing would make Dave Brandon's job easier than 9-3 with wins over MSU and OSU.
Eight wins including bowl season seems like baseline.
8-4 regular season with a bowl loss or...
7-5 regular season with a bowl win.
Beating MSU seems like a must. OSU on the other hand is still too heavily favored to make that game a win or bust sort of deal.
We already won 5 last year, and it's RichRod's third year. If he can't make the jump to 7 wins by 2010, then I'd be very skeptical that he's a good fit at Michigan for the long run. Sure, the team might suddenly become incredible, but if the third year is unsuccessful, then I think the chances of a magic turnaround down the road diminish.
6 wins, on the other hand, would put our administration in a real tough position. It's clear that a coaching chance (Harbaugh?) could mean another 2 years of transition. But like I said above, if 2010 ends the way 2009 did, then perhaps the transition will be worth it in the long run.
It's also about team growth. 7-5 with a decent bowl showing or 6-6 with a blowout bowl win (think: Notre Dame 2008) and, if the team appears to be getting better throughout the season, RR will probably still be around.
But 6-6 with a collapse like last year's, a crappy Big Ten season, and an uninspiring bowl showing (win or lose)... could be trouble.
This board is hilarious.
I'm going to sit here and wait for the "Brandon Graham isn't a Michigan Man" commentary...
Nah...I think I'd be waiting a long time.
This is virtually the same thing that Morgan Trent said, except Graham was a stud/future 1st round pick and Trent had an up-and-down career/6th round pick.
The only difference is that Trent said "I know what happened, and I know what rules were broken."
Carry on with your double standards.
While they are both critical of RR, Graham put the onus on the players while Trent basically said it was all RR's fault for their performance on the field.
It is somewhat clear that Trent was one of the few players that quit on RR. Graham on the other hand appears to have stepped up his leadership in the locker room to try and motivate the team. Did it work? Maybe a little. Did Trent do the same? I don't recall any stories about Trent being a voice in the locker room or motivating the team.
Also, look at it from Trent's perspective. It was too late for him to transfer to another school, but he wasn't ready for the NFL after his redshirt Junior year. He didn't have much of a choice but to stay. That doesn't mean he had to like RR or what was going on off the field.
We may not know if Graham likes RR or not (nor does it matter), but his production on the field and leadership both on and off the field showed that he cared about the team.
Brandon Graham lit a fire under the defense for the OSU game, and it showed. If Minor had played, we may have given them a run: particularly since they played us so damned conservative. I never saw UFR grades for the OSU game (guessing Brian was too depressed by then), but I'd bet it was an improvement.
Trent went to far in what he said. It's ok to say the obvious "we have to get back to winning or Rich won't make it". (Even though Brandon Graham would be getting an irate call from Bo even for saying that in the old days.)
Thank you for pointing out the most important difference. I didn't disagree with most of what Trent said, and I'm sure he knows things I don't, but saying, "I know what happened, and I know what rules were broken," makes you sound like an ass. It does no good to the program, or the coaching staff (which is probably what he was going for). Trent didn't know what rules were broken, considering how small the infractions were. Maybe he didn't the the QC people hanging around and thought that was a problem...maybe, but there is no double standard here. Trent was throwing Rodriguez under the bus, Graham was not.
Trent and Graham are totally different incidents to me. Trent was piling on in the wake of a manufactured scandal, and I question his intentions. Perhaps I'm wrong in doing so, but that's the way I, and probably many others, feel. Graham's comments struck me as stating the obvious with a supportive overtone, the team needs to win and it's on the players and coaches to do so. The other big difference to me is that Graham gave his all even to a losing cause, whereas there is evidence that Trent quit when times got tough.
"The other big difference to me is that Graham gave his all even to a losing cause, whereas there is evidence that Trent quit when times got tough"
All this statement, and other statements like it, does is support Magnus's case - the only difference is who made the statements, not the statements themselves. Your framework for interpreting Trent's statement was very different from the one used to interpret BG's statements.
Magnus described my thought process as well when I saw this topic first posted - I first thought - oh shit, board meltdown aimed at BG. Then I thought, no way, here comes the predictable rationalizations - the magnification and fabrication as to how Trent and BG's statements are different. And so it went...
I'm not saying what Brandon Graham said was a bad thing, because it's not.
But people in other threads were pissed at Morgan Trent because he was "calling for the coach's head." Well...in this quote from Graham, he says Coach Rodriguez has "one more year" and that if he doesn't win, you've "got to find someone new."
And yet NOBODY in this thread is saying he's "calling for the coach's head." Absolutely nobody.
And he's NOT calling for the coach's head. I'm glad nobody is interpreting it that way. What he's doing is stating the obvious, that Rodriguez is running out of time to turn this program around. I'm fine with what he said... It's just that he's saying the exact same thing that made everybody furious at Trent a few days ago.
Brandon Graham = great player = freedom of speech
Morgan Trent = mediocre player = HE'S NO MICHIGAN MAN!!!
He says: "I hope them boys get right next year. Because coach (Rich Rodriguez has) only got one more year ..." So he's hoping they have a successful season because he realizes it is do or die for Rich. This implies he supprts Rich, and hopes he succeeds.
Brandon is a Carr recruit, but he hopes Rich succeeds.
In contrast Morgan's quote: "Whatever steps need to be taken (to restore Michigan's winning tradition), I'm all for it. What is happening right now obviously is not working. I don't know how long they're going to let this last until changes are made" sounds kind of like he's on the side of "changes [in coaching staff need to be] made".
Note: I didn't melt down and bust on Morgan for his statement. I think it is perfectly reasonable for someone who has been through both Carr and Rodriquez to have an opinion on whether Rich should stay or go. It may be an opinion tainted with some unhappiness at being stuck in the transition, but I can respect that as well. I feel sorry for the last two senior classes.
Interestingly both have the sense that this year is it: the team comes together and performs, or Rich is done.
Why is everybody leaving out Trent's comment about knowing what rules were broke, nothing being a fabrication etc...
Trent also said, "This year is going to be the tell-all of what's going to happen."
In essence, both Graham and Trent were saying, "Rodriguez has this year to prove he can win at Michigan. If he loses, he's done."
They aren't the same situation, at all. If you can't/won't see why, then I don't know what to tell you.
You're right. They're not the same situation.
They're just very similar.
Do you think you will ever get over the "Trent Affair"?
Considering it only happened last week and Graham's comments are eerily similar, I don't feel guilty for pointing out the comparison between the two.
With the notable exception of a couple of key comments, yeah, they're similar.
If you consider "I know what happened, and I know what rules were broken" to be the difference between "excommunicating" Trent and still thinking Graham is one of the all-time greatest Michigan Wolverines, then I think you're blowing that comment out of proportion.
For example, *I* know what rules were broken. So does anyone who read the allegations. Everything he said is common knowledge OR can be explained by the fact that he was actually in the program when the rules were broken.
Aw, hell. I can reiterate my argument a thousand times, but too many people have already made up their minds, logic be damned.
Logic is damned. Damn you.
Also, he said something like: "none of that was fabricated", in reference to the Freep claims. Very different from what Graham said, there were elements that were similar, but taken as a whole they differ greatly.
In other "state the obvious" comments, Charles Woodson played for Michigan and won the Heisman.
Because coach (Rich Rodriguez has) only got one more year — if they don’t do (anything). Because of the allegations, and then, if you have a bad year, then you’ve got to get someone new.”
I think he's realistic. Maybe I don't like that his last sentence is a little too conclusive, but I think he realizes that RR has to show that he's a making progress and that if things get too bad, then change might be necessary. But he's not really saying bad, and he's stood by RR and the program. Maybe we'll see what happens once he's in the NFL, but people have said things suggesting that his support is genuine.
It's not like I'm debating anything new, but I would really, really hate to see him fired because (1) it would mean that we had two more bad years, (2) I do like him, (3) it would be embarrassing, and (4) he'd go on to have huge success somewhere else (knowing our luck) and we would look like idiots, plus you could guarantee that idiots in the media would blast UM for firing him if that happened.
To me the majority of it is on the players, RR knows how to coach. In 08, there was no Fing way he was winning with idiots like threet or sheridan running a spread, along with a bunch of young offensive players who couldn't hold onto the ball.
This season will come down to if michigan turns the ball over or not. It is what separated us from an 8 or 9 win season last year and it will be the same way this year. It won't matter how much better we are talent wise if Tate and Denard continue to have butterfingers and everyone else fumbles it when someone pushes them. Im hoping to god we have a positive turn over ratio this year. If we don't i expect 5 or 6 wins again.
Turnovers are bad? I agree.
Threet and Sheridan are idiots? Not so much.
Sure, they had very little chance of succeeding given the overall situation, but I wouldn't be surprised to see either one of them be successful coaches in the future.
with idiots like threet or sheridan
Remind me to bitch-slap you the next time I see you.
I admire Threet for staying in '08, when clearly he fit better in pro-style. He had a better read option than either Tate or Denard did in thier first year in the system. And despite a totally rookie line, he managed to beat Wisconsin, scare Penn State for a half, and almost come back to beat Utah.
Nick -- well he'll always have the Minnesota win. He also stayed in '09 even though it was obvious he wasn't really going to be a starter. Hopefully he does well coaching in the futre. He's now learned under both systems, so he could become a really creative offensive mind.
-1 to you for being disrespectful.
We can't look at number of wins in a vacumn. In a normal year, 7 or 8 wins would be considered a success, but the Big Ten will be stronger next year than any year in recent memory. RichRod should not be punished for that. PSU, OSU, Wisc, and Iowa are all potential Top 10 teams. State will be better than last year (when they beat us), and we face a Top 25 team in our opener, and a game away at an arch-rival (ND) who will not be terrible. We also play at Purdue and we have not been able to stop their offense for the past two years -- not sure how a secondary full of true or redshirt freshmen are going to fare any better.
I dont know about all of you, but I just have this gut feeling that Michigan is going to try to hang about 65 on the Spartans this year. I mean sure they have a solid linebacking core coming back next year, but they definitely had issues up front and in the defensive secondary last year.
Looking at their recruiting class, Gholston should help the D Line if hes ready but they didnt really adress their secondary.
Also, just being on the campus I really think that the players are sick of losing to little bro, especially at the big house. I also like the forgive but not forget comment and I think that may have been directed at Big 10 teams like Purdue, MSU and possibly Illinois to a degree? I think/hope they come out and try to make a statement in that game.
That Danny Hope thing won't go away. 65 would be merciful ...
It will be RR's 3rd year and unfortunately we aren't even talking with any sort of confidence of a winning Big Ten record this year.