including many, many terrible coaches, are loved by their former players.
A Brady Hoke supporter
I'm still upset with Donovan for not returning to school.
Read the article if you're going to comment about it.
Whitlock can be an ass, but he never BS's and he does know football.
This was a compelling article IMO, I feel much better about the prospects of him being our coach if that's what it comes down to.
Hoke has a lot of support from people who understand football and know him on a personal level. That should mean something. I've been having trouble understanding Brian's passionate dislike for the man...would I rather JH? Yes, but not by much giving the baggage that he brings to the job...
that I was responding to.
That is all.
Whitlock is a human being and he does have biases. If you've read his articles, Ball State, nightlife (and the right to keep one's nightlife private), and Jeff George seem to top the list.
However, his articles are always a good read.
Given the absolute necessity of keeping Denard around next year, I think Hoke and his "basketball on grass" BS can take a hike. Unless he wants to be our D-Coordinator.
If it has to be Hoke, then we need a Hoke Mitigation Strategy:
Spend the $5+ Million we would have spent on Harbaugh. We won't need to spend it all on Hoke, he makes less than a million.
Instead, pay Hoke the ~$2 Million going rate, and spend the rest on a killer team of Assistants. Bring in the best of the best . . . Loeffler, Soup Campbell, a killer OC and a killer DC, even *gasp* a Special Teams coach.
So who do you like? If we had about $3 Million to spend plus the regular kitty of Assistant Coach money, who would you try to bring in to "sex up" the Hoke regime?
However, the moment I read the "basketball on grass" comment regarding the spread, I became much closer to how Brian feels about Hoke being the next HC...no thank you.
I would totally +1 you if I could.
... uh, no, wait a second.
I'm going to start negging you onsite once we are able to again.
Nothing to do with your content, that avatar has to go. I'll go into Bolivia if necessary.
This is coming from a man who has a fairly troubling avatar himself.
People with your avatar deserve to get kicked in the crotch.
Anyone forcing a board full of like-minded football fans to look at a picture of Jocelyn Wildenstein's disaster of a face deserves to get kicked in the crotch.
That +1 button needs to come back soon.
Whenever I get the urge to +1 him, I'll do nothing. Otherwise, -1 until that avatar goes away.
Boy, we need voting back. I feel like I have no voice.
And implanted into your chin.
coaches that suck should be kicked in the crotch for wishing others to be kicked in the crotch for wanting to +1 someone.
I can think of one person that Hoke is definitely better than. You just named that person.
Ooo! Almost forgot!
Some jackass on a MICH message board says Hoke is great. I guess he should be our next corch.
See what I did there?
I was on the fence, too, until seeing those comments about the spread. Seemingly uninterested in working with the kind of talent that is currently on the roster, and probably not a big enough "splash" in terms of name recognition to get big time recruits for his system right away... doesn't sound like a good combination.
has Hoke been running at SDSU? Just curious
So that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Defensively, he's been extremely adaptable to his talent running different schemes on a yearly basis pending the talent he has on the roster. I imagine he'd see the light given the current roster makeup.
Don't think it's fair to assume otherwise...quite frankly, nobody could be more stubborn when it comes to scheme that our good friend RR...
I don't think Carr would badmouth the spread as "not real football" that can't work, at least not after App St and Oregon.
or any spread team he ever faced. Carr was famous for being unable to do a thing about spread offenses. They were his undoing, which is why we went for a spread coach when he left. If you can't beat them, join them. Unfortunately, not enough people wanted to join them.
Since Carr never opened his mouth to the media...ah, the good old days...
Mr. Hoke lost points there. He didn't have that many at baseline.
Sounds like the guy who just left and landed us Denard Robinson.
maybe that's because Rich Rodriguez is the inventor of the read option and many spread concepts, he's like the father of the modern day spread, Hoke, on the other hand, does not have anything comparable to that to lure guys in. No 4/5 star stud pro style QB is going to come to Michigan for Hoke, he'd come for Michigan, Denard came for RR's offense and UM.
I'm not sure recruits care all that much about which coach invented what. They care about the here and now.
If Hoke improves the team, with a pro-style offense, he'll land top QBs. Why wouldn't he? Plus, he'll just tell potential recruits two words: "Tom Brady."
I would think that other coachs (Harbaugh, Miles, etc.) would stand a better chance of bringing in the big name recruits. How would Hoke do in this regard? He may be a good coach, but to win BIG10 games were going to need to bring in talent.
But it heavily depends on the staff around them. If Hoke came in with the right supporting cast, he should be able to recruit. (ala Tressel ...)
why hire a coach if you want their assistants? Just hire the assistants.
of people who actually know what the hell they're talking about, Hoke is a good recruiter and coach that wants to be be here. Im sick and tired of the Hoke hate wagon. If he is hired and everyone starts bitching and moaning, I'm gonna start handing out dirt naps.
You were anti-Rodriguez. Am I right? (If I am wrong, many apologies)
For all of his faults, Rodriguez brought Michigan football out of the 1980s and into the mainstream with the spread option. Hiring Hoke would simply put Michigan right back. Is that where it belongs? I say no, but maybe it does.
I was a supporter or RR until after the bowl game.
So losing games, but running the spread option is better, in your opinion, because it's the updated version? Losing is the new winning I guess...
And again, what offense does Hoke run at SDSU? Have you watched any of their games? I've watched 5 this year...
It was a stab in the dark. My bad.
I've seen enough games and read enough about Hoke to know that he's not going to run the spread option. Obviously, losing games sucked and I'd rather see Michigan win. But I'd also rather see Michigan make a play for a spread coach (even a smaller name) than Hoke. In my opinion, Hoke is a smaller name than a lot of coaches out there and his only "endearing" quality is that his Michigan ties will appease some of the alumni/boosters. There are a lot of coaches that can/did win at mid-majors (if Miami(OH) and SDSU can even be properly classified as a "mid-major").
So then I take if you're not a JH supporter becasue he doesn't run the spread?
And, hell yeah, you better believe an endearing quality is that he loves Michigan.
But is loving Michigan a sufficient condition? Because to hire a 47-50 career coach it better be the most important thing on your list, and that's the definition of nepotism.
I never said it was a sufficient condition for coaching UM. Is it a plus? I think so! If you'd rather have a money chasing coach like Saban, then be my guest, but I have a little more pride in my alma matter than that.
Hoke started his head coaching gig at Ball State. Maybe it took him a few years to get in the groove? Saban had his fair share of mediocre seasons early on as a head coach too. So does that mean he isn't a good coach? Everyone wants to go after the "what have you done for me lately" meme, but not when it doesn't fit their story. Lately, Hoke has done very well.
Again, everyone who knows him and has been coached by him (that I've heard) has nothing but good things to say about him as a coach and person.
No, I'm actually anti-Harbaugh for his actions off the field. His comments about Michigan's academic standards to boost his own Stanford team forever villified him in my eyes. No "Michigan Man" should ever break down the program he supposedly loves if it benefits him personally. They call that cutting off his nose to spite his face.
I could not agree more. A good coach doesn't rely on one scheme for his offense or defense. A good coach adapts his system to his players.
the coaches who have to do that are the ones who couldnt' get the players they wanted in the first place. I'd rather have someone who is able to fill the roster with the talent they desire and not just what they can take.
But there are also coaches who adapt their system to their players because they get the best athletes. LIke, say, the sweatervest.
The best coaches are not locked in to one system.
Point taken. But RichRod was brought to Michigan to install his system. It wasn't stubborness that made him do this, it was what the university wanted when he was hired. Otherwise he would not have been hired.
This is about Michigan's coach post-Rodriguez.
Than have a great system.
big an RR supporter as there are, and yet I would much prefer Hoke over many of the big-name spread offense type guys. BTW, his SDSU team this year had TWO thousand yard receivers while the RB was just under 1500yds. His team also had two other wr's that had over 300 yds and 3 and 4 TD's. His qb also threw for over 3800 yds this season. Not exactly a 3yds and a cloud of dust type guy.
I like the idea of Hoke being our HC and would support him as much as I did RR.
Hoke is not a one trick pony as you've pointed out. Case closed.
Sick of people spouting off about Hoke like they know. At least do your homework before you talk and sound like a moron. This just perpetuates something about Hoke that is simply not true.
No case is ever closed. Not when you're arguing against someone trained in arguing!
That said, I still believe that there are MANY much more qualified coaches that would be available and I'd like to see Michigan go after them first. Its simply personal preference - every candidate consider will, I assume, have a decent-looking resume with good football stats, etc. And every resume can be dissected. I prefer that Michigan hire a coach that runs the spread because I like watching that offense, Hoke has expressly stated that he does not like that scheme, and thus I do not want to see Hoke on Michigan's sideline next year. All that said, I'm with you - I'll support him if he's hired. Hell, he might turn out to be a superstar!
........in the next HC is that someone who is simply looking at the job as either a boost to the next level(JH), or another notch on his belt(no one in particular but someone like Meyer would fit here). I want someone who is willing to take the job because they truly want to aspire to become UM's next great coach until they retire.
I get sick of hearing names like Peterson or Patterson or Stoops or any number of people who end up more of a "hired gun" than UM's HC. That is why I have warmed up completely to the thought of Hoke as our HC. I don't believe he takes us back to the LC days of only good but not great. I think he has the potential to take UM beyond what Alabama is doing right now, and if we are speaking of their success with the type of offense/defense they run, that isn't a bad thing at all. I believe he would bring in some very good assistants that aren't necessarily connected to UM in any way, although someone like Wheatley for RB coach would be pretty good.
Hoke isn't the sexy, splashy headline grabbing hire that everyone seems to be clamoring for but, IMO, he is the only one I've seen talked about, and that I've looked into, that will return UM to prominence and be here for a long, long time. The other names mentioned seem to be more of a 3,4 or 5 year plan with nothing beyond that. Patterson might make sense in that regard, as well, and might take on the job with everything he's got and be long-term at UM, but he is the only one other than Hoke that I can see that happening with.
I don't really know much about the conference Hoke and SDSU is in now, but it seems like it would be hard to project that kind of production to the BIg Ten as a given. I'd say the most transferrable production, like best guess of success, etc. would be Miles because he would have a downgrade in talent, most likely, and a downgrade in competition. I'm not so worried about offense at Michigan because we have a lot of young guys who should be able to grow in any system. I'm most worried about defense, and even that might be unfounded because of the youthful proportion of defensive players with a lot of potential who haven't played much if at all, Marvin, Furman, Ash, etc. I think we'll be alright next year with an easier schedule, but Hoke is too safe of a choice for DB, I just can't see him going through all the firing and search process to get a guy whose cieling is an OSU win here or there and a Big Ten title run every now and then. He's stated that UM's football is the driving force for the school's athletics and it's his job to find and hire the best guy out there for the job. The best guy to lead Michigan forward, the guy who can bring Big Ten titles home on the regular along with a few national titles, I don't think that is a description of Hoke, and I don't think Dave Brandon thinks it is either. I have no clue who we'll have leading our Maize and Blue, but whoever it is will lead the team and school where they want to be.
the way people were moaning and groaning when RR got hired and continued to do so all through his coaching career at UM? If you don't want to hear that sort of stuff you had better stop reading this blog or hope BH doesn't get hired. It has already started and it won't stop until he is either no longer an option as HC or gets fired as UM head coach..
then people like you are hurting the program (I presume you were moaning and groaning). End. Of. Story.
Not saying this is everyone, but I wish some people would forumulate their own opinions about coaches, etc. and not blindly follow what Brian spouts off.
What happens if Hoke is hired and wins 10+ games a year? Will people finally shut the F up? So sick of it.
What happens if Hoke is hired to appease a portion of the fan base and he loses 10+ games a year? I think you see the err of your ways. If not, no sense wasting any more finger energy.
I'm saying accept the next coach. Suck it up and see what happens. Can't we see that RR was hurt by all the bullshit happening in Ann Arbor? I mean, come on..
I take that as a general assumption (that we need to support the next coach) and go forward in voicing my opinion in the desperate hope that it somehow affects the search and decision.
Gene Chizik was booed at the airport when he arrived at Auburn. OMG WORST HIRE EVER!!!
Something tells me Auburn fans have changed their minds now.
...I guess. I have watched zero SDSU games this year. I will be upset if Brady Hoke is the coach. But I will be upset because I think he gives the program less of a chance of being successful in the long run than some of the other coaches being discussed (and Rodriguez, for that matter). I am leery of people who call the spread "basketball on grass." I don't really give a fuck what previous ties to the University someone has (and think that it would be a huge mistake to base decisions on this "Michigan Man" kind of stuff, or onunderstanding the Michigan culture or something). And, well, once you strip down the Michigan man crap, then you have a coach has been moderately successful at two small programs and who by all accounts knows football well. That's just not enough for me. I don't know how anyone has much of an idea how he'll be as a recruiter at a major program [insert anecdotal objection re: Tom Brady].
Will I shut the fuck up if he wins 10+ games a season at Michigan? You bet. I just don't think it will happen. I have nothing against Hoke. I just don't think he should be seriously considered as a coach for Michigan based on what we know about him now. Its possible he would do well. Its also possible there are a bunch of no-name 1-AA coaches or HS coaches that would do well. That possibilty doesn't mean I don't get to be upset if they are being discussed as candidates.
I think the "basketball on grass" comment is a non issue. If you watch some SDSU film, Hoke uses some 4 wide, shotgun sets that would be considered spread. His teams are power run game first, but Hoke has shown he can deploy many different formations depending on the competition. I disagree with Brian's assumption that the transition with Hoke will be difficult because he solely runs a pro set. SDSU seems very versatile on offense.
...troubles me not because I think it suggests what type of system he runs or would run, but because it reflects one of those stubborn, old-school, resistant-to-change kind of attitudes I would strongly prefer the coach not have (regardless of how many 1,000 yard receivers he coached this year).
And I don't care too much about the tough transition thing. Selfishly and myopically I'd love to get a guy that keeps Denard around and uses him well, but that shouldn't be driving the decisionmaking. The new coach should be the guy that will make Michigan *good* in 3-4 years, not less bad next next year. I'm fine with any system the new coach wants to run (assuming its effective), I just don't really want a guy who thinks zone blocking is for pussies.
......that "stubborn, old-school" type of offense, yet I challenge anyone to declare his recent teams not successful, or even championship caliber. Yes, I get that he oversigns and gets great players, and doesn't recruit "honorably", and that that is a big reason for his team's success, but the type of offense he runs can be very, very good.
"stubborn" and "old school." I called the attitude reflected by that quote stubborn and old school. Please read the post. I also said I had no problem with any system; I'm not trying to say pro-style is better or worse than read-option-based spread or anything else. If a coach wants to run pro-style, or passing-based spread, or anything else because he thinks that best fits the team, or because he knows and believes in it, great. I'm all for it. I just don't want someone who resists certain styles of football because they aren't "real football" or something. That attitude is troubling to me. The quote by Hoke I referenced suggests he might be among the people who think that, and that makes me wary of him.
When you disparage the Oregon offense as "basketball on grass" that ain't proper football and can't work just days before Oregon plays for a feckin' national title against another spread team then you are, my friends, a certifiable oaf.
And, lo, here is Coach Hoke proudly sporting his Oaf Badge. Being dumber than a bad of rocks ought to be enough to disqualify him from further consideration for the UM job. Sadly, the reverse seems to be true for some.
I'm watching ESPN and Chris Mortensen is reporting its down to the 49ers or Stanford for Harbaugh with Stanford being the favorite. A decision is coming tonight is what the scrolling news at the bottom says.
I don't really pay any attention to Whitlock. He seems like a contrarian who says/writes things just to spark controversy and get attention.
I believe he was the one who called for Brian Kelly to be fired because of the situation with the student videographer who died a few months ago.
I tend to agree that Whitlock should generally be disregarded, but your example isn't the reason why. A decision made by Kelly indirectly resulted in a kid's death. Even Tressel had the sense to bring practice inside that day because of heavy wind. I don't really know how you could argue with someone who thinks he should've been fired for that.
Was this a news article or was it a letter of recommendation sent on Hoke's behalf? It does contain tidbits of information, but half of it is spent describing how much Whitlock actually loves Hoke.
Case fucking closed.
I can't stand Whitlock....his support for Hoke does nothing for me.
A friend of mine whose father is a prominent business owner in the area has informed me that he has heard through a business connection that John Gruden is putting a down payment down on a house in Ann Arbor... No jokes here... I would like to keep businesses and names anonymous.
Would also explain why flighttracker was in AZ where Gruden is doing the national championship game on radio.
I want to believe!
...and I jizzed in my pants.
Really? Because I just threw up in my mouth.
I dont think it would happen at all, but if it did I can't imagine a better hire (now that it has become pretty apparent that Harbaugh is using Michigan as a bargaining chip and does not appear to have any serious interest in coaching here).
The guy knows football, the guy is a winner, and is one of the more charismatic people in football. Recruiting classes would be ridiculously good with Gruden, probably better than with any other candidate given the current state of our program.
I would be all for Gruden to be the next HC at Michigan. I love how he acts and loves the game of football. I would be super happy to see him on the sidelines for us.
Ok, serious question here. What has Gruden done to prove he can be a successful college coach? I know he had professional success, but I'm in the camp that it takes a special person to be good at both professional and college, and they are not that common. I really have no idea what Gruden's resume is in college and am too lazy to look it up, so I'm asking you cause you seem high on Gruden.
pretty much nothing, Jim.
Successful NFL head coaches just don't go to college so there aren't cases. Even scrubs with NFL pedigree (Weis, Wannstache, etc.) had no trouble recruiting and Chucky is way more charismatic. X's and O's are if anything probably easier in college.
As for college resume, Gruden was a grad assistant at Tennessee for two years, coached QB's at Southeast Missouri State for a year, then receivers at Pacific for a year, then jumped to the NFL for a year, then coached WR's at Pitt for a year, then back to the pros to stay.
He's been around two decent college programs and I don't think he'd have any trouble adjusting. He had high level success at two different NFL jobs (one of which is almost impossible to succeed in), was on Holmgren's staff in Green Bay and was an OC with the Eagles (where they went to the playoffs two of three seasons).
Gruden is the truth. If for no other reason than he won with the freaking Raiders, you have to like the hire. I can't think of another college team ever that landed a Super Bowl winning coach.
I can't think of another college team ever that landed a Super Bowl winning coach.
That would be Stanford. (Bill Walsh)
Though he had already been there and was 60 years old when they hired him the second time. Gruden is 47.
Very true. It was just something that popped into mind immediately when I read your post.
Not against Gruden here, btw. There's a reason his name comes up for nearly every NFL and top-tier college job opening every time they happen. One wonders (assuming he'd want to coach again) which job he's waiting for??
He went to Oregon and spent a lot of time there just to learn about the spread offense. He is really a football genius, and would recruit probably better than Michigan has ever recruited (that's saying a lot, but a Super Bowl winning coach would do that). He knows how to put people in positions that they fit best (I watched his teams closely in Tampa and Oakland). I have no doubts he would be extremely successful at any level.
He is passionate, he is smart, he has a way above average resume. Gruden was my guy I had in mind when he was (only slightly) rumored for the first coaching change, it has been said that his dream job was to coach either Michigan, OSU, or ND at some point in his life (really don't have any source on that, but it's what I've heard), which means he understands the midwest. I think Gruden would be far and away the best we could get (even better than JH, who I also think would be phenomenal).
That being said, I don't think Michigan landed Gruden
- Dayton alum 1984. Played football there as a backup QB.
- Held college positions coach at various colleges 1984-1989.
- Went to pros, coached under Walsh at SF, learned WC offense,
- Worked way up ranks, GB, Philly, etc.
- Became Oakland HC in 1998.
- The rest we know.
jack-shit in college.
Pete Carroll hadn't done anything in college either. The fact is that successful NFL coaches rarely if ever decide to coach a college team, despite the pipe dreams of fans. It ain't that fucking hard. Unless you think he can't recruit (which is dumb considering how many blue-chips Weis got) there is zero reason to pass on what would be a ridciulously good hire from a football and a PR perspective.
he'll probably tell them that he'll give them "a decided schematic advantage."
Pete Carroll also had 3 seasons as a DC, and one as an OC before the NFL. Maybe not that enormous of a difference but who knows? You seem to be fixated on the Raiders, but NFL success doesn't automatically = college success.
I actually agree with the positives you'd laid out for Gruden . . . i just don't think it outweighs that lack of college experience, which what little there is, is over 20 years old.
I sort of like the idea of Gruden at least being a bold choice (on the opposite side of the spectrum from Hoke) just not necessarily the best one.
Brandon looks like he's ready to pull Michigan back into it's shell however, so we can all look forward to some disappointment.
Very little. He was the WR coach at Pitt for a year and had similar positions at smaller schools before that.
But the guy can coach. He coached 11 y ears in the NFL and went to the playoffs 5 times, winning the Super Bowl once. 8 of those 11 seasons he was .500 or better, which is a big deal in the NFL, especially since he wasn't at perennially strong teams (the Bucs and the Raiders). He also wasn't a coach who had the benefit of a star player leading him to success like a Manning, Brady, Tomlinson, etc.
He's young, firy, and has a SB ring as a HC. He's been on MNF so everyone knows who he is. He would be great.
Are you from Toledo too?
I'm new to board - what does Toledo have to do with this post?
Gruden is from Sandusky...
The guy owns the local 31 Flavors, am I right?
but i wish...
He's been putting down payments down on lots of houses since he left the Bucs.
Yes, please be true. That would be an A+ hire, no doubt about it.
So, in the two days of our coaching search, Gruden, who is in AZ, managed to get an offer, accept it, find a house in A2 and put a down payment on it. Air tight--it's about time we got some solid leads. Welcome aboard Coach Gruden.
that Les Miles bought three years ago?
We heard the exact same rumor with Miles....
and he wasn't even offered the job.....
I could be jumping the Gun and it could always be hear say. That's just how these coaching searches go, but it's welcome news if it were to be true as far as I am concerned.
I get it. We're in this together and you're just a messenger.
It just goes to tell you how desperate I am following this coaching situation... Your post has me all up in arms with excitement knowing that it probably isn't true. So for the sake of my sanity, try and legitimize this rumor for us because he was easily my second dream choice after Harbaugh. His recruiting ability will be unmatched. Plus he has studied the spread at Oregon and Florida for the past three years. Please let this be true. Shed some light...
"I have info that Les Miles will be named head coach tommorow and that Bo Pelini will slide down south to take the LSU job per Pelinis Agent. My dads friend has someone in the AD at michigan and he got the information directly from Pelinis agent.. FWIW"
my heads going to explode.
Yeah. Gruden would have already had time for house-shopping in AA.
I just find this impossible to believe. A couple of years ago this same sort of report was sent out through the rumor mill about Bill Cowher coming to Cleveland. I consider this false hope. Not bashing you but I just can't see Gruden comiing to A2. The dude has a Superbowl ring and is well sought after in the NFL world. Why would he take a step back to coach a floundering college program?
Don't get me wrong, if this happens we will have the college football world up in arms and biting their nails more often then LeBron, but I just find this extremely difficult to believe seeing as how there has been no mention of it ANYWHERE but here. This is something Schefter or Mortenson would be going nuts with.
that Whitlock, a Ball State alum, is a fan of Hoke.
I don't wanna kiss Brian's ass too much, but he put it perfectly when he was on the radio yesterday: if Brady Hoke wasn't a former M assistant, his name never would have even come up.
I'm not sure that's an entirely fair argument, though. Because the guy coached at M, M would have unique insight into the guy's abilities; other schools don't have any practical experience with Hoke. I'm agnostic on Hoke. But I do think it's quite possible that M knows something that others do not.
I don't know jacksquat about Hoke, but the reality is that's the case for everyone on this board in all likelihood. Including Brian.
The fact that he spent 7 years at UM is incredibly relevant, he was the Associate HC and that's how we hired our HC for 30+ years. It couldn't be more relevant that he spent 7 years here coaching our football team. How much head coaching experience did Carr have before taking over the ship?
I agree with Brian about most things, I don't agree at all about his anti-Hoke rampage. The fact that he spent 7 years here and apparently did a damn good job given his standing with ex players and the AD is beyond relevant. You could argue it's more relevant than his HC experience when it comes to this search.
Whitlock (who once wrote for the now-defunct Ann Arbor News, in case ya didn't know) is this one...and perhaps only.... Ball State homer. I occasionally read his stuff (I still question why I put myself through it), and I usually leave his stuff pissed off.
Where he eviscerates the BSU Prez & AD.
I agree with whitlock
Let's see if he loves Michigan when he gets booed at the first basketball game after he is hypothetically introduced.
Let's see his reaction when I run onto the court and stab Dave Brandon for hiring him.
I LOL'ed for real.
the funniest post of a pretty funny week. AsAlways, GoodStuff PurpleStuff
Afterwards I would turn to Hoke, shake his hand and wish him good luck, then wonder out loud if they get the Big Ten Network in prison as the cops escort me out of Crisler Arena.
If this happens I will stand by what I told my wife the other day and another poster echoed yesterday: "If DB hires BH as the next UM coach, he needs to go the fu*k back to dominos...and not as the CEO either...as a delivery boy".
I have questioned his ability to be a good AD openly on this blog since he was hired. I got all the "have faith in DB" and "DB is the best, we love DB" posts in return. This would be all that it would take to solidfy my opinion of DB.
Purple is winning the "most adversely affected by the coaching search" award.
Started to sell me up until:
If Michigan would love Hoke with half the passion Hoke loves Michigan, beating Ohio State and returning to the top of the Big Ten wouldn’t take more than three seasons.
Sorry, 3 years... I'm not willing to wait that long anymore, especially considering how we sent RR off. I can't take another re-building considering we were just putting the finishing touches offensively.
Exactly. We can't have more rebuilding at this point. We need offensive continuity to ease the transition and be competative quickly. The program can't handle three more years of re-building in my opinion.
Totally disagree. Fitting a coach to present personnel might be a consideration, but I am guessing it is way down the list, something that would be nice but is not an objective. We won't be competitive, at leat not at any level that matters for much, until we've rebuilt the defense. There's no way DB is thinging, Gee we're a spread school now, better get a spread coach.
However, I'm guessing coaching adaptiveness, otoh, will be a bigger consideration.
But, this team is in a better situation than it was in 2008. It shouldn't take 3 years to have "completely rebuilt" anything. Sure there were some talent gaps (e.g. Rogers in the secondary) but I also believe the Defense will be better going forward, and that's directly related to experience, size, confidence etc.
No matter who the coach is, by the way, I hope we keep the play where the QB fakes the run, drawing the safety into the box, and then hitting a wide open Receiver for a big gain.
Didn't Brandon say that he would go after a defensive minded coach? If so, then I would bet that the offensive coordinator hire would be a big topic of discussion.
That way it could be more of a short term situation that could be phased out than the HC hire.
HC - Hoke
OC - RR
My take is that the three years was a comparison to RR. Not how long it would take him to right the ship.
I could be a Brady Hoke supporter. For me it comes down to the coaching staff he builds. If Loeffler is his QB coach and Trgovac is his DC I could handle it.
Did Hoke actually turn down Indiana and Minnesota? Or the other way around?
probably a little of both.....
Hoke: I need a Michigan buy out clause.
he turned them down because he thought taking a HC job in the B1G Ten with any team other than Michigan would ruin the chance of him ever getting his DREAM JOB.
I respect Whitlock a lot. I am not on board yet by any means, but this is the first time I have bene able to picture Hoke as our coach without throwing up in my mouth.
He's 47-50 in 8 seasons as a head coach. He took over a Ball State team that went 6-6 the previous year, and proceeded to go 4-8, 2-9, 4-7, 5-7, and 7-6 in his first 5 seasons before breaking out in the 2008 season that everyone keeps referencing as the main point in his favor.
He then left for SDSU and went 4-8 in his first year. He went 9-4 this year, but his two "big" wins are over admittedly decent Air Force and Navy teams. His other wins were over Nicholls State, 2-10 New Mexico State, 4-8 Utah State, 1-11 New Mexico, 3-9 Wyoming, 3-9 Colorado State, and 2-10 UNLV. According to Sagarin, SDSU's strength of schedule last year was 91st in the country, despite having TCU, Utah, Air Force, and Missouri on the schedule.
He recently stated that he hates spread offenses because they are "basketball on grass" and took shots at the Oregon offense.
He is, like, maybe a legit candidate at Minnesota.
This is undoubtedly the best post I've seen by a Hoke opponent. Well said, sir.
hoke may not be everyones first choice but at this point looks like the only guy that we can get. i just want to know what every one will think when he brings his team to the big house on september 24th and kicks the crap out of us.
I'm prepared to take.
I can't wait to see his face when Denard breaks the first tackle and takes it to the house. (God (if there is such a higher being), please let Denard play quarterback for Michigan next year.)
"The only guy we can get"
That's a pretty dumb ignorant statement. Welcome to the board, I'm sure you'll be a valuable contributor...
I first laughed at this, then second-guessed myself and thought your response was mean-spirited, and, finally, I laughed again. Good post!
I am forced to read Whitlock regularly due to my employment, and I can honestly say that if Whitlock supports it, it's probably a bad idea.
Not that most of us didn't feel that way already.
I really don't know that much about Hoke, but is anybody else officially crossing over into not wanting Harbaugh territory. If this job is only a bargaining tool to him, then I don't want him to be the Michigan coach.
Makes me wonder if he does come how often we will be going through this. You know the NFL would still be interested in him. It would feel a bit like izzo.
Honestly, he won a super bowl...I don't even remember him in college I do know he's spent a long time as an NFL assistant, are weo so enamored with moments of success that we forego thoughts of running a college program?
I've never understood what the biog deal about him was...
with becoming Notre Dame.
Jon Gruden is our Charlie Weis.
Crazy internet ND fans always mentioned Gruden as a possibility for their new head coach. Along with the crazy Urban Meyer talk a few days ago, I feel like we have already become ND.
There's that whole Super Bowl thing, which people still seem to put some stock into. He also turned Rich fucking Gannon into a pro bowler, and won said super bowl with Brad Johnson, so it's not like he simply had a buzzsaw of a roster. Also seemed to put good defenses on the field, particularly in Tampa.
So the guy clearly knows his shit from a pure football standpoint. I'd agree that it would be scary that he'd have to learn the HC recruiting game from scratch and assemble a staff from god knows what, but I think he would be a serious recruiting draw (as someone else has pointed out, even Charlie could recruit like crazy on the basis of his NFL connections, and he's a fat asshole.)
Plus, Gruden kind of talks like Les Miles and Bo, so just close your eyes and tell yourself he's a Michigan man.
not just an OC.
I don't believe we are getting Gruden, but I am shocked that people are saying he wouldn't be a phenomenal hire for Michigan. Maybe it's just people trying not to get their hopes up, I don't know.
I still don't have Hoke anywhere near the top of my list but the whole Indiana-Minnesota thing is kind of weak. Boy, good thing they didn't hire Hoke! He surely would have caused them to miss those bowl games they played in this year! Instead, they rode the success of their alternate hire to 9-4 and a bowl win, did they?
it's not exactly the most impressive 9-4 season anyone has ever had.
It's San Diego State. They hadn't been to a bowl game in 12 years. 9-4 is pretty darn good.
Beating Navy 35-14 in the bowl game is pretty solid as well I'd say.
This is the same Navy that beat Notre Dame 35-17 (we didn't do quite that well if I remember)...
he simply can not be trusted!
truer words been spoken.
one of them rhymes with CHOKE. I can hear the jokes coming out of Columbus already
Article more and believe it more if he didn't talk about his obsession w/ Hoke for the first paragraph.
One thing is for sure, who ever our coach is next year needs to be atleast 8-4 in the regular season to claim any sort of success. If Rich we retained we would have seen this, in my opinion. The pressure will be on the next coach to succeed early. He will not have time on his side.
Whether this is Brady Hoke or Jim Harbaugh they better be prepared to win early or feel the wrath of the fan base.
We should temper our expectations based on how many players transfer and which players transfer. If we lose a lot of the upperclassmen that Rich Rod recruited, we're in for a painful season no matter who is hired.
Exactly my point. It doesnt matter if players transfer or who is there. We most likely would have been 8-4 next year under RR. If we do not reach that level next year with someone else at the helm, then the coaching change was not worth it.
Poll question: "How important is it that Michigan's new coach have ties to the school?"
Very important - 26%
Somewhat important - 30%
Not important - 45%
The only state to have a majority that said "somewhat important" was Michigan.
The only state to have a majority that said "very important" was West Virginia.
That's because West Virginia knows we're trying to hire Dana Holgorsen as a big "F YOU" to their state.
...this guy can recruit and coach...he's young and accomplished...I'm not sure why he's not getting more talk.
Most of the candidates discussed to this point are not available or questionable.
You don't have to have BCS cred to take on a B1G job. Fitzgerald and Tressel are
good examples of this.
His team plays Eastern Washington tonight...at least that is a distraction from the carousel.
This guy could work.
If he was ever a consideration...DB wouldn't be talking to him as yet. DB was asked directly in the RR-is-fired presser if he would consider an FCS coach and he said yes. Keeler is the only candidate in that class that is young enough and good enough to make sense.
I would love to have Harbaugh, Patterson or Peterson or any number of big names, but
that's not possible all the time. The best may be in the FCS.
"I can guarantee you I have made no inquiries about the University of Michigan job, and I have not been contacted." Asked if Michigan had asked for permission to speak to Keeler, Delaware athletic director Edgar Johnson said: "I don't have any comment."
Not sure why everyone chooses to ignore the 48 year old FCS head coach who has 5 National championship appearences (albeit at FCS and D2/3). He's also put a few D1 transfers into the NFL (Flacco), and wouldnt have a problem incorporating current Mich players into his offense. He seems just as qualified, if not more than Brady Hoke. He's a more realistc option than someone like Gary Patterson or Tacopants.
I saw this on another thread and am still not sure how this makes any sense at all. Yeah, the guy has done well at the FCS level, but let's not say that just because of that he's Tressel V2. Before going to Youngstown St., Tressel was a DI assistant coach for 11 years-- including three years at OSU. Also, the fact that Tressel spent 19 years coaching Ohio probably helped him understand OSU and what was needed to succeed there.
Keeler's in the finals this year thanks to a DI transfer, but have you looked at his record since 2005? He's gone 6-5, 5-6, 11-4, 4-8 and 6-5. The 11-4 year was Joe Flacco's senior year, so the only two good years he's had since 2005 was when his team was powered by a DI transfer. During that stretch, he didn't finished higher than third in his conference. He's never spent any time at DI-- not as a player or a coach. He's also never coached anywhere outside of the East Coast. And he's 51, so it's not like your getting a young guy like Fitzgerald.
So, a 51-yr guy that has very up and down record in FCS, no DI experience at all, no Midwest ties is what we need? He may be a good fit for UConn, but come on, even Brady Hoke is much better than this.
Sad to hear so many "fans" wanting a big splash, or huge name... Remember the headline when we hired Bo? Anyone hear of Lloyd before he was an asst? You know what we should all want? WINS!!! I dont care what his name is, get behind him and your program and get back to Dominance!!! Stop whining about not getting the hottest chick at the dance... Besides, maybe she doesnt put out...
From Whitlock's article:
"Hoke doesn’t rebuild programs by himself. He has the best strength coach in college football, Aaron Wellman."
Someone please show this to Barwis. I want to see his wolves clamped on Whitlock's giant a$$.
What a completely unbiased and non-objective point of view. Glad to know he's giving a personal point of view.
Was hoping to posbang you on sight for awhile, but since we can't vote (and since by the time we can again, the CC will be over and the banner will change), just wanted to say BIG KUDOS to you on that banner up there. The kitten cracks me up, and the look on its face makes me read the bubble as "I can has coke?" Maybe Brian should attach an auto-playing WAV file with some dramatic music w/nuclear explosion at the end?
Anyway... great job, sir. It's perfect.
It's an opinion piece, that's actually what he gets paid to do. I respect the fact that he put his cards out on the table instead of sliming his way through a piece like the Freep
db has no plan and unless he pulls les miles out of his ass we will have to hire some no name coach NO BIG NAME COACH WANTS THIS JOB. we are doomed
Is he a head coach or bust guy at Michigan?
Is there a possibility he'd come on as a DC? That would at least give him a chance to prove himself.
He's proved himself fairly well in regards to his head coaching ability (apparently not up to snuff with others), but a DC job wouldn't prove it anymore. He's getting up there in age, and if he came in as a DC he would either be behind a successful HC in place or wouldn't succeed (assuming the team doesn't succeed) and would never get a chance regardless.
If the Michigan program had been successful the past 3 years (let's say LC was still on and we were still going ~8-4) then I don't think there would be as much Hoke hate. I think he has a ton of passion and is a very good guy and isn't a bad coach. I think the Hoke hate is way overboard. But let's be honest, what Michigan needs is someone people agree on and rally around. In normal times, I think the passion that Hoke demonstrates for Michigan would be enough for the fanbase to rally around him, but right now Michigan football is in turmoil, and he isn't really the name to bring the fanbase back together. That's my e-pinion on the Hoke case.
That's a good and valid point. The way everybody (read: Brandon, Bill Martin, former players, etc.) are talking about needing the Michigan fanbase to be united, it makes me think Brandon would only hire Hoke as a last option.
I honestly don't know a single fan who would be excited -- some would be glad we have a "Michigan Man" back in charge -- but really, most people wouldn't be happy, and that'd be a REALLY bad way to start off at a time when the fanbase is desperate for something to rally around.
The more I think about it the more I believe DB traded one meme for another:
From "Michigan Man" to "Unite the Michigan Fanbase..."
At least the new meme gives you a lot more flexibility in choosing a new coach.
I found his claim that "Jim Harbaugh’s 12-1 can’t touch Brady Hoke’s 12-1" to be preposterous. During Hoke's 12-1 season at Ball State in 2008, his out of conference wins were over Navy, Indiana, Western Kenutcky and Northeastern....then Ball State lost in the MAC championship to Buffalo 42-24, followed by a 45-13 loss to Tulsa in the GMAC Bowl. So technically, he went 12-2.
Doug Karsch, who can definitely be said to have U-M connections, has also been touting Hoke on his radio show. He also posted his thoughts on his station's web site: Why Brady Hoke Is No Slouch.
Unlike Harbaugh, Hoke wants this job and wants to be successful at Michigan more than anywhere. He understands the culture and has shown he can adapt to his talent and install either a spread offense or a pro-set. While at Michigan (1995-2002), Hoke was a great recruiter pulling names like Fargas, Epstein and some quarterback named Brady from California to Ann Arbor. At San Diego State he has required that he and his staff visit every high school in San Diego County three-times a year — minimum.
And Hoke would be able to piece together an extremely strong, deep rooted, mid-western staff. When Hoke was in Ann Arbor he raved about a bright young assistant named Scot Loeffler who is looking for a new job when Urban Meyer retired from Florida. Loeffler, who Tom Brady later tried to recruit to New England to be his quarterback coach, would be a great choice for offensive coordinator.
I don't understand the disdain for Hoke at all. With a strong coaching staff behind him, there's every reason to believe he would succeed at Michigan.
Hoke sure would gain a ton of support, and maybe even a tipping-point, if Tom Brady publicly endorsed him.
Karsch says: "He understands the culture and has shown he can adapt to his talent and install either a spread offense or a pro-set."
That conflicts somewhat violently with the interview of him by a San Diego paper (from a posting yesterday). In it, Brady took some shots at the spread and showed that his thought processes aren't that smooth. Specifically, he said that defenses who practice against the spread would be lost when encountering SMASHMOUTH. No word from Brady on whether defenses that face SMASHMOUTH every day just *might* have some trouble when facing zone blocking.
Sorry -- Mr. Hoke is probably at or near his ceiling as a coach. I'd be surprised if he succeeded in a big way at Michigan.
One other thing: I don't care if he assembles a cast of "all-star assistants." I'd expect that from any coach. It's as if we shouldn't care too much about the top guy's capabilities as long as he LOVES Michigan. FM.
He did say he didn't agree with zone blocking all the time. Maybe he really does believe in no spread, but he may also believe that you need to mix up between spread elements and pro-set elements, meaning some I, some ace, some shotgun, if only for a mental toughness standpoint.
I'd be lying if I said I didn't like the idea of Michigan mixing up between shotgun, read option, and a little bit of straight ahead I formation with a fullback.
Did you expect it from Rich? Because he must have been a grave disappointment then.
Let that be clear.
The story is old by now, but Tom wasn't exactly a big-time recruit and his dad actually had to send in his highlight tape to get LC and the other slackers to even notice.
He has an eye for talent?
This is one thing that I really like about Hoke: the possibility of him bringing Loeffler back. I think bringing Loeffler back would really help our QB recruiting and development and the offense as a whole.
Yeah because QB is the hole on our roster.
Seems the pimp hand has outsourced the search to a search firm:
"I am using external resources," Brandon said in an e-mail.
Using a search firm allows an athletic director to contact coaches through a third party, thus showing a bit of discretion.
Search firms are not a part of the decision-making process, but they often do the legwork, gauging interest of potential candidates employed by other schools.
This may be why there is so little information out there for the vultures to swoop down upon. Binding contractual agreements.
It seems like he has everything under control...
The fact that he's using a firm makes me more comfortable that we haven't really heard a whole lot on the search. Also increases the chances that we land some out of left field type coach. Kind of like RR was. But hopefully more successful.
He is taking all of the responsibility on himself. If the decision turns out bad for us, there will be no place to hide.
Brandon said he understands time is of the essence, particularly in light of the narrowing window of recruiting. The beginning of the national signing period is Feb. 2. He said Michigan has postponed this weekend's on-campus recruiting visits.
Still doesn't give a specific timline for any decisions...take your time DB, no rush, not at all...
You seen these?
Ahh yes. Very demented artist. Good stuff. He always applies the warped aspect of the humanity in a human.
DBrandon says "external resources". There might be a difference.
This was already posted and discussed in another thread, but, in any case, you couldn't be more wrong when you say Brandon has "outsourced" the search. Hiring an outside search firm is SOP for CEOs making top-level hires. The search firm is not going to handle the search for Brandon; their job is to aid him in his search--contacting candidates or their agents to gauge interest, vetting potential candidates, perhaps providing advice on contract terms, etc.
As I've noted in other threads, using the services of an outside search firm will speed up this process--not slow it down. And please note as well--it's not the same as forming a "search committee."
On a scale of 1 to 10, what would you give Hoke and Fitzgerald?
Have you seen those guys interviewed? Fitzgerald sounds like a guy who is on a C-level trajectory. Hoke sounds like a friendly team player who is awesome at the water cooler but not someone you'd want running a division. I think he'd wilt under high pressure.
Who quoted The Lion King and played Groban. And you're NOW worried how candidates talk? It's football not presidential speech writing.
I don't think Hoke, if hired, would be wise to hire a bunch of former M assistants. Hoke would already be stuck with the cronyism label. He shouldn't push his luck. Plus, the point should be that he and Michigan take a big-tent approach, rather than a provincial one. Pre-RR, Michigan was, at the very least, a little too incestuous.
We just fired a guy with an excellent track record because supposedly the record just wasn't good enough over only a three year period. Now people are actually lobbying for a guy with a losing record over eight seasons as a head coach because he "gets it" at Michigan. At the same time, people are arguing against hiring a charismatic young coach who won a Super Bowl as a head coach in the NFL and made the Raiders one of the top teams in the league.
Someone please convince me that we aren't the dumbest fanbase in the country?
But maybe (temporarily) the most insane fanbase in the country.
It only takes a reminder of the Redneck Rocker to pull me down off the ledge. I've yet to see any Michigan fans challenge Denard to a prison style fight.
GROSS. That ugly logo. Did you really have to do that to make your point? Yuck. Must leave this thread now.
I was a big RR supporter, even after the bowl debacle. Definitely in the Harbaugh-or-keep RR camp.
And I'm not a fan of Brady Hoke. If he drives Denard out and relegates us to another painful transition, I will be pissed.
But I will support the guy. I am not going to be like the RR haters who never gave him a chance. It's important that everyone is.
Even if we hire Dan Quayle, we can't have a fanbase constantly lunging for the coach's throat
I supported Rich Rod, I guess I understood the news conference 3 years ago when it was said they wanted to take the football program in a new direction and it would take time. With all of our young players on defense---personally I was still hoping the spread would work given time. I was also a Lloyd Carr supporter and Bo.
I even have a nice U of M Football signed by Rich Rodriquez, this is support.
I wish him and his family the best and I am sure he knows that he did have alot of support out there, just not so much in the media. Is it just me or does it seem like the media wants to influence everything i.e. Athletics, Politics and everything in between.
I know that we have to worry about Denard transferring in the case that Hoke or some non-spread guy is hired, but do we have that same worry about Gardner? Or do we think Gardner would stay and play in any system?
I don't think I have anything new at this point, but I'm only now able to log in after this site went to hell this week.
I, too, don't get the hate for Hoke. Since nobody who's actually played football and/or has intimate knowledge of this program and those that Hoke coached has spoken here, I'm reserving judgment. He basically seems like another version of JH that took a different path to get to a similar place (albeit at a smaller school).
Since I also didn't get to post about this previously, the idiots who were criticizing DB's presser the other day can kiss my ass--he did an excellent job. He was in control, on point and explained things clearly. He gave the stupid questions as much time as they deserved and answered the real ones honestly. I'm sure he's got something in the works, but the fact that he didn't have JH or anybody else signed the minute he fired RR doesn't bother me, in fact I'm happy he's taking the time to get this search right this time. He knows what he's looking for, a guy who'll adapt to what we have and make winning rivalry games a priority. He basically summed up everything RR was doing wrong and is looking for the opposite, and that's what we need right now.
Anybody who thinks he didn't reach out to JH in the last few months is welcome to return to reality from the vacation they're on whenever they find it convenient. It's clear Harbaugh wanted to be here years ago but that didn't happen for whatever reason, and the fact is he has more options to choose from now. But that situation isn't even resolved yet, so there's no telling if he'll actually end up here and shut those idiots up. Please reserve your judgment for DB for AFTER he actually hires a coach.
I'm looking forward to some analysis of the coaching search from someone that actually knows something about football, but I'm still waiting...
Clearly, Hoke is a very good coach. We don't know if he's a great one for our program because the schools he's HC'd at were such poor programs for so long. That's my only concern. I'm sure he'd do at least an OK job, but whether he can be better than OK is the big question.
Harbaugh would be the big "get" of course, but I wonder why so many rule out Miles simply because of age? Our program needs restoration, and it needs it quickly. Once that's done, someone else can come in down the road.
If he can do the job, and restore the program to prominence, and retire when that job is accomplished, what's age got to do with it? Patterson, Miles, Hoke are winners and all are over 50. Harbaugh is pushing 50. Maybe age shouldn't matter. Just sayin'.
You guys will all eat your words when you're at 50+ if you are looking for a new gig, and despite your competence and energy people have that concern.
is a very good coach and defensive minded and can recruit what we need on defense.
Brady Hoke: Defensive line coach during our National Chamionship win, was there from 1995 - 2002, Michigan had a great defense during those years as I know I remember. He has a good 8 years as Defensive Line Coach - Very Important!
He has turned programs around as a head coach, you have to start somewhere and his career goal is to return to the U of M as Head Coach. In alot of ways his resume is better than Jim Harbaughs.
He has the Michigan ties.
He is a Michigan Man and knows what we are all about. Brady Hoke could be the next Bo!
During the ND game, Whitlock tweeted that GERG's passive style would cost Denard and Michigan wins based on observing him at the KC Chiefs(I tried to find the link, but I could not get that far back). He was spot on about that observation. Maybe he is right here. I will say that it is necessary but not sufficient for the new coach to love Michigan.