if you have to ask what I am referring to, then your knowlsge of M football is such that you might want to just read more than comment.
if you have to ask what I am referring to, then your knowlsge of M football is such that you might want to just read more than comment.
I'm assuming (or at least hoping) that he was making a sarcastic joke about giving Hoke the credit for the 1997 defense when he was the DL coach, not the DC.
I hope so too, but why disregard his involvement in this awesome defense so easily?
Wait, by "this awesome defense" do you mean the 1997 defense or the current defense?
If you mean the 1997 defense, I'd say it's a stretch to call it "Hoke's defense." I'm not disregarding his involvement, just being honest that the DL coach usually doesn't get to lay claim to ownership of an entire defense.
I am probably late in replying to this as it is no longer on the main page. But, if you are still reading:
Fair criticism - I didn't really mean to imply that it was "Hoke's defense" (despite the fact that I used almost those very words). My point was that he has been involved with good defenses, many at Michigan. If you will recall, during Hoke's tenure at M, the D line, which he was directly responsible for) was always a strength. We probably don't disagree much on this whole point - I just was a bit strong in calling 1997 "his" defense.
"Mattison and the players getting older and stronger will help the tackling."
Its interesting that you separate Mattison's accomplishments from Hoke's accomplishments in advance, just as you separated Gerg's failures from RR's. At least you're consistent I guess. Consistent and bitter.
Part 3 is good to hear. IMO, nothing in football is more frustrating to watch than missed tackles.
Whatever, just win.
That if Nick Saban, or Steve Spurrier, or Mark Dantonio or Jim Tressel came in to Michigan and had their players tout off numbers and yell about beating Ohio that they'd "get it" and automatically be a "Michigan Man".
I like Hoke and all, but some of this tongue bathing is just ridiculous.
So you're calling Bo, Moeller and Lloyd arrogant a-holes or total idiots? They didn't start their meetings like that. As a guy who played college football, this stuff (yelling at the start of every meeting) becomes really ineffective quickly. You get desensitized to it. When Bo came in, he made demonstrations about little things (ie never using red markers) that established an expectation. But once it was done, it was done.
Yes, and that maybe there's a reason it hasn't been done before, because it players grow tired of it and becomes desensitized to it. Really the ultimate point is that Tressel, Dantonio, Saban...or whoever could "get it" and become a "Michigan Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" by doing the exact same thing.
I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
RR got it, in his head. I truly believe that and always will. I am a huge RR supporter and wish he had made some different decisions with D scheme and staff, as he would probably have the chance to at least coach denard through his 4 years.
In his heart though? Maybe not, and that is what Hoke "gets". It's kinda BS, it definitely isn't tangible...but it's that thing inside each of us die-hards on this site that have cheered for this team since we were kids. It's personal when Michigan loses, even though we never wore the helmet. I can't quantify it and don't think anyone can. Hoke has that fan's thing in his heart that, by no fault of his own, RR didn't have.
I may be speaking out of my ass of course, and what Hoke "gets" is how to relate to alum and sell the program.
What he said.
Football is an emotional game played by men, not the coaches. Stats and schemes rarely tell the complete story by themselves. Clearly, we have not had the emotional intangible edge in our rivalry games for three seasons. Whatever it takes to get that back, Hoke is getting paid for that as much as anything. He knows more than all of us combined.
This post wins the thread. I couldn't agree more. Brady Hoke is trying to get the fanbase's support through all of the beat Ohio and other rah-rah stuff. The last few years have been hard on the program and the fanbase so this is basically PR to bring everyone back together. People need to give the man a chance because we all know what happened with the last coaching hire when everyone wasn't on board.
Man what a reasonable freakin post! How dare you!! :P
I pretty much agree with what you said. Re. the head/heart thing and Rodriguez, you're probably right although who really knows....
Is the fact that Hoke "gets it in his heart" a good thing, and an asset he can use?? Hell yes!
My problem is that most people hold the 2 in diametric opposition, as if the fact that RR didn't have that isn't merely the lack of an asset that Hoke apparently has, but that it was actually a negative that hindered RR's success, and something that should be held against him. That's just bullshit.
Does anyone here think that Florida fans held it against Meyer that he wasn't a Florida alum? Or Stoops with Oklahoma? Hell no. Has that hindered them from winning? No.
Yet, a lot of our fans have stooped to the level of holding that against RR. What's worse is it really seems to have been a thought on Dave Brandon's mind as well.
Anyhow, hopefully we just start winning.
As for the emotional/tradition/ra-ra.... Will that alone win games? No. But it will probably help the players' mindset.
And mindset is HUGE in sports. If you don't believe, then you're fucked.
Hoke needs to find a way to make these guys believe they can win. To win, you need to first view yourself as a winner.
When you haven't been winning too much recently, that's a tough thing to do. For most of these guys, their Michigan football experience has consisted of more losses than wins.
So, if Hoke finding a way to drill into their heads that they are a part of a tradition of excellence... not just a tradition of winning but the WINNINGEST tradition in the history of college football... if he can get the players to see themselves as part of that tradition, and thus see themselves as winners, and dispel any negative mindsets, then I'm all for it.
It doesn't matter if we think it's cheesy or stupid. I'd be OK with RR playing Josh Brogan if it helped the program... okay, actually I'm not. But what Brady's doing isn't nearly as bad as that.
It's a little cheesy and stupid.
But it's less cheesy and stupid than, say, a stuffed animal being rubbed on your face after a big defensive play.
It's just sad that people think this matters. What's even sadder is that stuff like this makes people like Jay Feely (seriously, look at what he says on twitter) think that it will cause Michigan to win more games. Proper coaching, talent and experience wins games, not reciting statistics.
If so, what evidence* do you have to substantiate this claim?
* Note: second-hand accounts of how impressed alumni are with Hoke do not count.
I think he had emotion, just not the right KIND of emotion. Not MICHIGAN MAN emotion.
I don't think he was saying that RR had more or less emotion than Hoke. He was saying that the PLAYERS' emotions can impact a game. What Hoke is doing is instilling a certain attitude - a pride in Michigan - in his players.
It is naive to believe that such things as school pride, excitement, an appreciation of being part of something great and overall emotion do not impact a team's performance.
If you have any doubt, you should look back at what some of the members of the 1997 NC team had to say about the season. You might also want to consider reading "If These Walls Could Talk" by our long-time equipement manager, Jon Falk.
Michigan in the same way as Hoke because Meyer has never been here before. Who would you rather have as the coach?
with someone else then. (Even though I don't know how Meyer, not ever having been at Michigan, just like RR, could somehow get it more). Mack Brown. Who would you rather have?
who has never been at Michigan can get it anymore than another guy who has never been at Michigan. Based on that, I guess I should be the head coach at Michigan before RR because I have followed the program for years and understand it more. Why can't RR "get it" less than Meyer? Does Meyer have some sort of access to the Internet that RR didn't have that allows him to research Michigan 24/7 and understand the history?
Or maybe those aren't the reasons RR failed. Maybe the reasons include that he made a terrible decision in hiring a defensive coordinator. Or that his retention of defensive players wasn't good enough. You know, real things, not some rah-rah crap.
I should have definately been hired as the head coach instead of Rich Rodriguez.
By the way, had Jim Tressel ever coached in the M-OSU game before going to Ohio State?
he was the QUARTERBACKS coach at OSU before, which is the defining reason for not only his head coaching success at OSU (he'd prlly have a losing record at OSU without that, right?) but it's also the reason for OSU beating Michigan. That and that alone, cuz he "gets" it.
it still doesn't change my opinion that Tressel having been an assistant at OSU has nothing to do with success as a head coach. Had he not coached those 3 years as a QB coach at OSU, I would still expect he have the same record as he does now.
So if I get this correctly, you would rather have hoke as head coach than brown or Meyer because he has more Passion for Michigan football? That sounds dumb
Mack Brown or Brady Hoke....who would you rather have as coach? Or do you want to keep sidestepping every question about good coaching vs knowing traditions?
about hiring a coach with a 47-50 record, right?
You are doing the exact same thing you are chastising others for and over-emphasizing the effect emotions play in a game. Did RichRod understand the Notre Dame rivalry and get really passionate about beating them but forget to act excited about MSU and OSU?
You take a team full of emotional kids who really want to win and ill take the more talented team and we'll see who wins more often.
... why Meyer would "get it" more than Rodriguez? Does not compute to me.
He's from OHIO so he automatically gets it. Yep.
This is fucking ridiculous. He was at OSU for 2 years and ND for 1. That is only 3 fucking years...by this token, RichRod should have known just as much about the rivalry after this past year because he was here for 3 years so we should have kept him.
How Meyer succeeded at Florida? He grew up in Ohio. He never coached against Tennessee or Florida State. Never even coached in an SEC game before. He had no connection to the program that Spurrier built. He didn't even like to pass the ball that much! He brought it guys like Tebow, not traditional Florida bombers like Wuerffel or Grossman! How did someone, who so clearly has no ties to a school, "get it" so much that he was able to win TWO national championships???? TELL ME NOW!!!! IT MAKES NO SENSE!!!!!
Get over you're emotion B.S. Yes emotion is part of football, as it is with every sport. Things like coaching, talent and schemes also play a huge part in whether the team wins or not. You're making it sound like if a team shows up and plays with emotion then automatically they are going to win.
On game day I agree that this makes little difference, but for other aspects of a coaches job, it can
Recruiting - you want every edge you can get. Having an identity that sets you apart can be a useful tool. It won't sway every player, but for some, being part of that tradition will matter. If the team is bought into that tradition, it will likely male the pitch to yhode players even stronger
Motivation on days other than game day. It is a long season and coaches need to use every tool they can to motivate their players. If it motivates Hoke, he can translate it better as a motivational tool. While I have not played on a college football team or been in the military, I have been parts of groups that had strong espirit de corp and those that didn't. It made a difference. Many people worked harder when they felt part of something bigger. All good coaches try to forge that identity, when you have a tool like the michigan tradition to help you forge it, it seems silly not to use it
Obviously, there will be some that love this stuff and other that think that it is total crap (as evidenced by all of the comments so far.
There IS something special about Michigan football. There are only a handful of schools that can say that their program is "special," and I love that Michigan is one of them. Obviously, tackling, passing, catching and running win games. No doubt about that. But, confidence and a certain mentality help players and teams succeed when faced with adversity.
This whole schtick, to me, seems aimed at getting the players to understand that they aren't playing for just any team - they are playing for the winningest, and one of the most storied - program of all time. It is instilling a certain degree of pride in these kids.
Will this translate into wins? Maybe yes. I want our players to have that pride in Michigan, and to realize that they aren't just playing for another B10 team. I want them to understand and appreciate just how lucky they are to be a part of Michigan football, as opposed to (for example) MSU, Indiana or PSU. I want our players to have the love of Michigan that so many former players had.
Now, of course, for some this will turn into a debate about RR.
My take on how this relates to RR:
It doesn't. Right or wrong, RR was fired because of his record. I do think that RR is a great coach. I also think that having not come out of a school as wrapped up in tradition, or a school that really had any reason to "understand" what makes Michigan, ND and a select few other schools "different," he couldn't instill that feeling in his teams. This has nothing to do with being a Michigan Man - the same requirement to "get it" likely exists at ND and Texas - but RR has no greater appreciation for Michigan than he would have had for Miami, Pitt or any other job. That's not his fault, and people shouldn't blame him. It is unfair to expect someone to come in and from day 1 appreciate all of the nuances of Michigan football.
#3 is what matters to me in that email. We cut down on the missed tackles and I will be one happy man.
I don't give a crap if he gets "it". Win baby, win.
hit somebody in the mouth and win. that is all
I don't think you're allowed to do that anymore.
They uh... they don't let you use that no more.
Agreed. This has been a good thread/discussion. The kind of good that completely destroys all semblance of productivity at work today.
I'm looking forward IMMENSELY to the season ahead.
I do so much of my browsing on the App now, I hardly see things like avatars or sig lines and such now. But come in to post pics or quotes, or get to links, and wow....nice sig line. ;-P
I'm proud if someone actually thought something I said was worth it, that it's someone like you carrying the banner. Agree or disagree, it's always a good read, and worthy intelligent debate.
And this thread is getting too touchy-feely...