Brady Hoke Calls Notre Dame A Chicken
http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2013/05/brady_hoke_notre_dame_chickeni.html#incart_river
Pretty straight forward really; Brady Hoke says Notre Dame is chickening out of the rivalry.
ND has always been great at cherry-picking a schedule that gives them a lot of teams that look good for the computers, but that an elite team should beat. They combine these with two or three real games like Michigan or USC, and maybe one other "tough" game per year.
Now, with the ACC bringing in a few tougher games, and Stanford becoming an elite program again, they are getting rid of Michigan so they have on less possible loss on the schedule every year.
This is a masterful job of cherry-picking. They don't play enough ACC teams to experience the grind of a full conference schedule, nor have they ever played enough Big Ten teams to experience it. Now that Brian Kelly has them good again, getting rid of MIchigan could keep them from one loss too many some years, and give them a better chance of getting into a playoff.
Personally, I won't miss this rivalry. I have thought for years that the Big Ten should have refused to play ND until they joined the conference. If every major conference told them they didn't want to play indies, ND would have to join one of them to get a decent schedule.
This is one reason that I would still like to see what I will call a "super-division" made of super-conferneces, relegating anyone not in a conference to second-tier status. Let ND play in a conference, any conference, and have to sustain "the grind" like everyone else does.
We get a lot of mileage out of "Winningest College Football Program of All Time". It's even painted on the side of our equipment truck.
Now we are in danger of losing the Winningest % part of that title to Notre Dame. While we are playing the B1G East and the top half of the B1G West and a strong OOC opponent every year, they will be playing a cherry picked schedule of ACC teams. They will never play Florida State, Clemson, and VaTech all in the same year.
Although you're right, they have decided to keep USC and Stanford on the schedule, so it's likely they play USC, Stanford and one of those three most years.
Sorry that is nonsense.
USC is generally going to be an "Ohio" type of level.
They play Texas Longhorns in 2015/2016 - that program is down a bit but when they scheduled it it wasnt a walkover and who knows in 2015 could be a top 10 team.
Stanford has re-emerged as a very good program.
State is a decent team
They play at Miami in 2016 and also VA Tech.
It's a good schedule so to say they are walking away to get the winningest program is nonsense.
As an aside they have another home and home with Texas in 2019/2020. They essentially replaced Michigan with Texas - I don't think you can argue that's a cakewalk or big difference in prestiage or power.
Michigan is going to have 1 very tough non conference every year, and then Ohio, PSU, State and a crossover with a Wiscy/Nebraska type team along with also rans. I don't see much difference.
The difference is . . . they don't have to play us!
Love Brady calling notre lame 'Chicken!'
ND fans can't argue with him either after their chicken-shit AD ddn't have the guts to tell David Brandon to his face that they were ending the game series. I guess they were just getting sick of losing to us constantly. For ND's sake, Purple Face should keep his mouth shut on this one and not make the whole thing worse for them. I can't wait until we ass-stomp them this September.
Isn't Notre Dame Michigan's little brother as well? Michigan taught them the game of football, fergodsakes.
Their rivalry with Sparty has more history. They're played almost twice as many games against them so it makes sense to keep that game. And Purdue is an in-state rival, so they can't drop that game.
But I don't appreciate the dick move to "serve" Brandon right before the game last year.
I do love that this move forced us to show that we're just as much the national program as ND and can play anyone, anywhere and don't need them for our non-conference schedule.
That is all. Like I said, ND handled the move in a dickish way. In my four years at UM in the 90s, the series was on hiatus for a couple of those years. So going on hiatus for a few years is not something new with us.
We were ND's first-ever opponent - we literally taught them how to play football. So there's a bit of history there. MSU may have played them more often but usually no one outside of the two fanbases cares when they meet. U-M-ND has been far bigger on the national stage.
As for PU being an in-state opponent, IU is as well, but they never play them. Why play only one of the two B1G schools in Indiana?
And I think IU was either the first or second team ND played on NBC when they signed that deal back in the 90s and crushed them. Maybe IU didn't want to take the beating every year. Also, I don't know what MSU and Purdue's contract with ND is. It's possible that those contracts didn't have as convenient of an exit clause.
And as much as people don't want to hear it, ND doesn't need Michigan to gain a national stage. They're on national TV regardless of who they play. There's just no getting rid of them unfortunately.
But it's still a big game for them. It wasn't a coincidence that they chose to play us at night last year. For most ND fans, it's just behind USC in importance. Also, they hate our guts, in a way that they don't hate anyone else. They are convinced that we harbored an anti-Catholic bias for decades (even though we fielded plenty of Catholic players during that time). ND fans routinely say things like "USC is our rival, Navy is our friend and Michigan is our enemy."
Agree, this thread sounds a lot like a Sparty board when discussing Michigan. That makes me sad. With that said, their dick move to bailout on the field ahead of the last game was... well a dick move.
I think this speaks more about where Michigan is and will be in the future. Dont you guys think there is a reason why ND kept Purdue and MSU? WIth NDs new ACC loaded schedule, I believe they did the right thing. Keep the 2 big ten teams you can beat and drop the one that you cant. I still think Hoke is right for calling them out, because they are a bunch of chicken shit pussies, but Im going to take it as a compliment for UM. ND knows that with the way UM has been recruiting and the great coaches they have, that it is time to pull out of the series now. I know ND has been doing well in those aspects as well, but I think 3-4 years from now, UM will have done better than ND.
They have their midwest footprint without really trying. They know they can't afford a match-up with another national powerhouse if they want to keep getting to the NCG.
Honestly, it is chicken. But it's also a compliment--they don't want to have another game they have a good chance of losing every year on their schedule.
Honestly, if our schedule was as tough as theirs, I'd probably want to cut one of the great teams too, and cutting Michigan won't hurt their recruiting or national appeal as much as cutting USC or Stanford.
"Honestly, if our schedule was as tough as theirs, I'd probably want to cut one of the great teams too"
Our schedule is as tough as theirs. Let's drop OSU, it will reduce the risk of us losing a big game.
As it stands now though, Stanford and USC are their only tough games. They have MSU and Purdue, the academies, and some ACC teams (maybe one of which will be tough). Not a total walk in the park, but not exactly murderer's row either.
The Strength of Schedule arguments make no sense. Let's forget any one year when USC might be better than Ohio or not. Ohio and USC are par programs. Currently Stanford is on par with say a Nebraska or Wisconsin (better than PSU). They drop Michigan and add Texas Longhorns. Who do we play that is on part with Texas after allowing for Ohio and say Nebraska or Wisconsin (in the future will be a crossover game). They add Miami and VA Tech. Those programs are similar to a PSU and State.
The rest of the schedule of the two programs is similar - you can toss a Purdue or Iowa or whomever with a Boston College or whatever. Those are games you can lose if you dont come to play and put in full effort.
I find the schedules to be quite equivalent. Many people here seem to think the Big 10 is the SEC. It is not much better than the ACC after the first few teams.
If ND is eliminating us because they don't want one more tough opponent, its a chicken-shit, pussy move. That's all there is to it. Take a page out of Alabama's book: if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best, wherever they are. Sometimes in their own backyard.
Also ND had to agree on the two year break where ND just canceled on their own.
if they only schedule a bunch of weak opponents for the season?
We'll just play them in January.
Notre Dame is continuing to play Purdue and MSU but not Michigan. Hmm wonder why that is...
"They're still gonna play Michigan State, they're gonna play Purdue, but they don't want to play Michigan," Hoke continued. "I don't know how they made that decision ... I really do ... But anyway, that's a great national rivalry game. It's a great game." - Brady Hoke, in the article
I suppose Notre Dame will always have these two stalwarts of the Big Ten, and to think that they'll be able to add Wake Forest or perhaps Boston College more often now. Maybe they can alternate Purdue and Indiana so they can have a real scare once in a while.
If there is any interest in these numbers, now that the alliance is in place, ND is 84-32 against the ACC lifetime - the only two teams that they have losing records against are Florida State (2-5) and they lost the only game they played against NC State. In the Big Ten, they have losing records against three teams - Michigan (16-23), Nebraska (7-8, although all those were played when Nebraska was in the Big 12) and Ohio State (2-5).
PS - I am truly sorry, WolverSwede - your post, hilarious as it was, precipitated an HTML nightmare. Multiple attempts at fixing individual replies weren't working, so I had to delete the post and reply chain to fix the thread. Feel free to post it again though.
I got an MIP on the corner of State and Arbor after the 2003 38-0 game. Totally worth it.
BTW - 2006 was 47-21. 2007 was 38-0 again.
The 2003 game was the best. Gameday was on site and there was tons of hype leading up to that game. The Irish fans milling about were extremely vocal pre-game because the general sense was that ND was a slight favorite. Then we shredded them. There aren't many victories I've witnessed that were much more satisfying than that one. The rest of the week, Michigan was the talk of college football world.
Then we went to Oregon and pooped the bed.....argh!
What I want to know, is did Hoke tuck his thumbs in his armpits and waggle his elbows up and throw in a few clucks when he said this?
He did the Chicken Dance like he was at a Polish wedding.
that ND is taking a page out of the Ohio scheduling playbook. Setting up a season packed with fluffers in the hopes of being in the hunt for a top 4 spot at the end of the year will bring them more money and praise from the fanbase than a win against Michigan every 2-3 years. Without playing us their odds go up significantly of at least being in the hunt for a playoff spot.
OSU pretty much schedules the same way we did when ND was on the schedule. One game that will likely be a quality non-conference game. One middling Big Eastish team, two MAC snacks.
The Cal series that makes their schedule look so bad this year was scheduled when Aaron Rodgers was their QB and they were a top 15ish team. The next four years, they take on Va Tech and Oklahoma, which will make for far tougher non-conference games than we face those years.
I appear to be in the minority but I am more than ok with losing ND. I'd like to play them 2 or 4x a decade and then use that slot for home and homes with other team - I love the VA Tech matchup and like (not love) the Arkansas matchup. Anything other than Pac 10 teams which we seem to really have a lot of trouble with in pre Big 10 matchups. But going to play a Georgia twice a decade or Oklahoma/Texas or Miami or whatever instead of ND year in and year out is a lot more interesting. Doesnt mean I dont want to ever see ND on the schedule but how many 40-0 blowouts can we watch. ;)
While popular to whine about this subject I like data rather than easy emotional memes, so I pulled the 2016 schedule for comparison. Why 2016? You have the full slate of games mostly scheduled with their new conference. Notre Dame has a bunch of TBAs in 2015.
Keep in mind they play texas in 2019/2020 to replace Michigan's slot so I am not cherry picking a year.
Comparing schedule by strongest team (by reptuation) I see little difference and can see why ND would drop Michigan (even if they did it in a doofus way on the field)
#1
ND v USC
Mich v Ohio
#2
ND v Texas
Mich v Wisc/Nebraska
#3
ND v Stanford
Mich v Wisc/Nebraska
#4
ND v VA Tech
Mich v Northwestern/Sparty
#5
ND v Miami
Mich v Northwestern/Sparty
#6
ND v Sparty
Mich v Iowa/Colorado (being very generous with CO since currently they SUCK)
So is there really any difference? Not to these eyes. Yes maybe 2016 is loaded since they have Texas filling up a slot and no equivalent in 2017/2018 but again they play Texas again in 2019/2020. These are slots Michigan will play the Arkansas and VA Tech's of the world.
Did they chicken out - perhaps. But the schedule if they kept Michigan on would be absolutely brutal. Point of this post was not if they chickened out but showing why Michigan was a logical choice and to refute those saying how easy ND has it go forward.
Remember CFB goes to a playoff system where strength of schedule matters as well. So playing decent non conference matters esp for teams in (ahem) not so glossy conference likes the ACC and Big 10.
I am going to start this off by saying, stop crying. ND begged and grovel'd to join the BIG way back in the day and were denied on several fronts. So now you want us in and we say no and we are playing dirty pool?
Right so 2016 featuring @Texas, Stanford @MSU, Miami, USC, Virginia Tech, is a cup cake schedule? As for not playing the top teams in the ACC in the same year, we have FSU and Lousiville in 2014. Give me a break.
Frankly I'll hate to see this series die because it means a lot to me and my family that are mostly UM fans.
As for recruiting? Don't think ND is afraid of you there either, we finished 3rd to your 7th on 247s 2013 rankings.
ND doesn't want to be a regional team. We play a national schedule. We recruit nationally. You recruit MI, OH, IL and PA with a couple of outliers as your 2013 recruit roster indicates. We signed kids from FLA, CA, TX, OH, MI, MD, NJ, VA, DC, AZ...
While I would prefer to see UM vs Purdue, there is more history between MSU & Purdue than there is with UM. Blame whoever but I think UM was the culprit for the long breaks here.
Besides, think of the epic bowl games that will come of this. Genius. UM vs ND in the NCG.
Or you can just accept the reality of college football. Money.
the fact that ND cancelled the series. Maybe a game against VA Tech will make you feel happy. The point is simply that our coach called ND chickens, and well... you are.
Your 2016 schedule sounds solid, but the point is that ND backed out of the rivalry. I guess you can claim that the MSU one was more important. Oh well.
Since PSU will be back around 2016 or so, we'll just replace you.
So Yost wasn't an instrument of preventing them from joining way back when?
When asked by reporters about a Michigan-Notre Dame series in 1947, the normally quiet, reserved Leahy shot back, "I just wish we had the opportunity to beat Michigan. We'd be happy to play them any time, on any Saturday, during any fall." In the 1940s Crisler, too, attempted to organize Big Ten schools to boycott ND. Michigan State and Purdue both told Notre Dame they were proud and delighted to have the Irish on their schedules.Sounds eerily similar, doesn't it?
You could be referring to some episode in the even more distant past, but that would make you even more wrong. Notre Dame guarded its independence fiercely for a hundred years until that aborted negotiation.They stuck to independence after Yost and then Crisler told them to go pound salt in regards to joining the Big10. Some other notable quotes for you:
Mike Hart felt, "You can't be considered a great back until you perform against Notre Dame." Lloyd Carr, who was 5-4 against Notre Dame, said, "Any player who gets an opportunity to play in that game whether it be at Michigan or Notre Dame or any guy that gets to coach in those games, when he walks out there, there's a realization of how lucky he is." QB Elvis Grbac, when asked if Michigan were to go 1-11 which team would he want the one victory to come against, answered without hesitation: "Notre Dame." "When we lose to Notre Dame, it is so disheartening. It leaves a bitter taste you can't seem to get out of your mouth," said DT Tony Henderson in 1994. Gerald Ford (UM, '33) said of the rivalry, "It's good for Michigan, it's good for Notre Dame, and it's good for college football."
I assume you mean you'd rather see UM vs Notre Dame, but there's more history in both the ND-MSU series and the ND-Purdue series? Notre Dame's record against Purdue is 33-9 since 1970. That's better than the Michigan series? Why?I worded it wrong, I meant to say I would like to see UM over Purdue.
OK, so you think that. Do you have a reason? Michigan fans have two big reasons for assigning blame. The first is the notice of termination that Jack Swarbrick handed to Dave Brandon on September 22, on the sidelines of the football field literally minutes before the game began. The second is Swarbrick's own admission that he, not Brandon, canceled the series. So...blame whoever but you thinking that UM was the culprit for the long breaks here is easily disproven.The breaks I was referring to were instituted by Yost and then Crisler. As for recruiting, on the current roster we hold 46 players who are not from the BIG footprint.
Oh phork... you're so silly.
You should be happy the series is ending, phork. Michigan has owned notre dame. 5 out of the last 7 including two beatdowns.
I don't want ND in the B1G. You bring nothing in basketball, one of the most overrated teams consistently in hockey and a football program that has been returning to glory since 1989.
ND would have lost to ohio also. And it would have been by much much more than Michigan did especially if it was on the road.
Have fun with those new rivals Duke and Wake Forest.
I'm not happy about it. Believe me.
As far as basketball is concerned your most notable team was paid to play and didn't win anything.
And we would not have lost to OSU. They barely beat you. You, on the other hand, are on the road to another 10 straight losses to OSU. I wonder when they will tire of playing you guys? Scratch that, its an easy win for them on their schedule.
Now you're just trolling.