Brady Hoke BHCC Bits

I think you are pushing the wrong kind of plate

If Brady Hoke has a policy to push a 45-pound plate as discipline, the fans say, "Ahhh... discipline... toughness... emphasis on classroom attendance... M Man... beat Ohio... "

This is from Michigan's Public Infractions Report, November 4, 2010, pages 5 and 6:

"3. Conditioning activities as disciplinary measures. During the summer of 2008 and 2009, strength and conditioning coaches who monitored and conducted some voluntary athletically related activities occasionally used additional conditioning activities as a disciplinary measure when they required football student-athletes to participate in such activities as a punishment for missing class. Offending student-athletes were required to push a 45 pound weight for 200 yards on the football field. This punishment appears to have occurred on a limited basis and lasted anywhere from five to 15 minutes. The committee was concerned that the institution's compliance staff advised the football coaching staff via a memorandum in both March 2008 and March 2009 that such activities were impermissible, yet the strength and conditioning staff conducted them anyway."

 

 

So, there's a whole lot of NCAA techno-speak that made the offseason plate-pushing a technical violation. But the comparison of the two stories really is hilarious.

ME:  Worst State?

I don't think Hoke's comments sounded that bad or too directed at Rodriguez specifically. Brandon kind of sounded like a dick, though.

Voluntary in that, "You get to be on the team whether you do it or not. But if you don't, I hope you like the bench."

I'm sure it's voluntary... just like playing time.

Once you claim you're on it, you can never jump off.

Don I respect your posts, but I'm calling BS.  I'm not saying you aor your friend are a liar, but I'll say this.....that your long time friend never liked RR, went and saw him and didn't like what he was saying then he retold it to you but with his interpretation and now you have RR bashing players.

Here is what probably happened.

Audience: What are the prospects for offense next year coach?

RR: Well I'm not going to lie it could be a little tough.  We only have 1 returning starter and we're down scholarship numbers and we just don't have the speed at certain positions to get to where we want to be, but these kids are working their tales off right now.  They are a great group of kids really conscientous and we'll get there,  it is just going to take a little bit of time to get the players we need and we're addressing that in recruiting right now. 

Don's friend: Don you are never going to believe this RR said the players are fat and slow and that Lloyd didn't recruit worth a crap.  I don't like this guy Don something about him.

Don: Wow I can't believe that.  RR seemed like a good guy but what a jerk. 

I'm sorry, but if RR was calling out specific players than that is completely bush and he is a dick, but we would have heard about it.  I'm sure of that.   

When I was in college, I spent an awful lot of time in my easy classes with my books and notes out for my difficult classes obviously not paying a lick of attention. My professors did not care.

I'm not trying to say that everyone who transfers is a quitter but after reading those articles about Denard's family last Fall I had a feeling he wasn't going anywhere if/when RR got fired.

I don't know if this happens at Michigan, or at any University presently, but students used to check in on student athletes in the past.  A radio host for ESPN 710 in so cal said when he went to UCLA he was actually paid by the athletic department to see if football players went to class. 

True story, over the last 5 years, Hoke and Rodriguez have the same record.  One was at West Virginia and Michigan in that timeframe.  The other was at Ball State and San Diego State.  Which 37-26 record is more impressive?

So spread is best, pro is nowhere near as good. Unless the pro players are better than the spread players. In which case, pro is the best one.



Got it.

Quick question;

If the pro offense is so easy to defend why come the pros run it?

The spread, with a mobile QB, may be the hardest to defend, but I don't know if I agree that it's the best to run.  The paradox is that the very thing that makes it hard to defend - the threat of a running QB - can be its undoing when said QB takes a physical pounding.  Unless you have a 250-pound bull playing QB, your QB is probably going to get knocked out of games now and then when you're running this offense.  The problem with that is, in college football, one loss can knock you out of the title hunt, so that handful of injuries can be devastating.  

If Pat White could have stayed healthy in 2007, WVU may well have won the national title.  But the very offense they ran led to him taking a ton of hits and it perhaps should not have been surprising that a smallish guy like him got knocked out of two games (both of which they lost).  Likewise, it should not have surprised too many people that our 193-pound QB got hurt frequently last season.  The big question is, what is the maximum number of carries Denard can record per game without getting injured? 

As someone intimately familiar with the Z-west program and Shillito himself, I can say without a doubt that the best offense is the one that adapts to what the defense is doing, regardless of which name it goes by.

Watch Shillitos teams, they score on almost EVERY first drive, most 2nd drives and progressively fade as the defense adapts to the motion & reads the fakes. Look at their first half scoring vs. 2nd half. The thing is they usually have such a lead by that point that they win by eating clock in the 2nd half.

Spread/read option are the exact same thing(IMO). They catch teams offguard early in games & exploit defensive mistakes for big plays. If they are facing a capable D-coordinator with even remotely decent players they will adapt. Look at Denards production numbers against teams with capable D's. Once they had the D-end start ignoring the back, going straight upfield leaving the back to the LB's or S,  the whole house of cards falls apart. Then is a matter of what the offense does to adapt. IMO RR did a shitty job of this(as is evidence by his 3rd and 9's repeating the exact same plays series after series).

I guess my point is, any system is as good or bad as it athletes, however the "trickier" systems do allow a "lesser" athletic team to potentially exploit an athletically superior defense, expecially early in games, whereas the more "basic" or "traditional" schemes its more like you either have the guys or you don't.

That was my problem with RR's offense, he came in with a game plan that might have been great, however once it stumbled even slightly he was done. He appeared to have very little in terms of contingencies to adapt and overcome with.

PS, I do love watching Shillito's teams, they run that thing like its 2nd nature and it can be hilarious to watch teams scramble to adapt. Sometimes I feel sorry for their poor MLB.

What comparison to Bielema is offensive at this point? You wouldn't find a 49-16 record and a Rose Bowl appearance acceptable for Hoke's first five years?

It was a memorable game, but I'd prefer not to be in another game like that, where our defense is almost completely helpless.  2000 Northwestern was a game where it went the other way.  I do not remember that one fondly.

Those were the days when the Detroit radio guys were soliciting calls from "Michigan fans who might want Michigan to lose so that Rich Rodriguez would get fired."

And the hosts were busily saying that the win over Illinois was one that would make Bo Schembechler roll over in his grave because the defenses were so bad.

It was one of the most dreadful, shameful weeks for the Michigan fan-base since they hung Bennie Oosterbaan in effigy on the Diag.

who could win big 10 games at home, you would have thrilling moments more often, no?

That it ever had to come to that.

I couldn't agree more with this.

You may be right on his personality traits, but you're hurting trying to find negative things the guy has done in the substance of the job.  The coaching search is off-limits because: A. There still is no actual evidence he screwed anything up during the process. Just a  lot of wild speculation from Rich Rod zealots  B. We don't know how Hoke will do. 

On the positive side:

--he helped get the Crisler Arena package through, plus lights and a new scoreboard at the Big House,

--lined up the Alabama neutral site game 

--led Michigan through the gauntlet to a positive end on the football sanctions issues

--reestablished ties with the innocent key members of the 92 and 93 Final Four teams, paving the way for full healing and reconciliation

--strongly endorsed Beilein at the start of the season

--gave the ok to get an NFL defensive coordinator for massive $$$$

I am not in love with any looking back in a negative way on the last coach (even in fun). But in fairness, condemning it without being there and really seeing the method of delivery, is probably very presumptuous too.

Just because Michigan almost never defended spread teams well does not mean that the spread is the way to go. Especially the read/option spread, which I believe will fade away along with its inventor(R-Rod). Look how quickly NFL defenses adapted to essentially kill the wildcat fad. Seen Pat White lately??

Using the word "spread" to describe an offense is really too general anyhow, there are passing based spread offenses and then theres read option/running based spread offenses. IMHO I see the run based spread as a thing of the past, as in 2004 because it puts the entire offense on the very specialized skills of 1 guy(QB) and places him in harms way far too often.

I could be wrong, maybe R-Rod will win mulitple NC's somewhere else running his same old schtick, I'm just betting against it myself. Just like I'll bet against Cam Newton ever becoming anything in the NFL, just like I did Vince Young & Demarcus. Instincts tell me that there are certian things in football that, through years of trial and error become undeniable truths. Once in a while something comes along that is an anomoly and brings all those old paradigms into question. Barry Sanders never ran to the assigned hole, just read and reacted but nobody is building their offense on the premise that this is money in the bank. Run first QB's have come before(Randall Cunningham) and failed to win consistantly. I don't ever see that trend changing in any real or lasting fashion. I could be wrong, but I've got $1000 riding on it right now(Brother in law insist's RR will win more games than Hoke over the next 6 yrs) I'll eat the crow and pay the bill if I'm wrong but I took $500 from him saying Brees would win a superbowl before Vick . I trust my instincts.