PizzaHaus

January 12th, 2014 at 4:21 PM ^

It's hard, because an argument can always be made. If a team puts a terrible offense on the field, you can ALWAYS blame the players: by nature, the offense being bad means the players aren't playing well. If a team can't pass, you can always say "it's because the QB and WRs aren't good enough." What's impossible to truly know is if it's the OC holding them back, or if they just suck on their own. 

At some point, decisions have to be made, and I think we made the right one. 

Ty Butterfield

January 12th, 2014 at 5:15 PM ^

If you want to say he was the fall guy I would not disagree with you. However, I think he had blame to share as well. Negative rushing yards and the offense looked lost at times. The players may have lost faith in the play calling. We don't know what happened behind the scenes, but I think it was time for Al to go.

bluewave720

January 12th, 2014 at 5:18 PM ^

But it seemed to me that he was either unwilling or incapable of making in-game adjustments.  He proved this during the MSU, Nebraska, and PSU games in particular.  

IMO, coaches at this level should be able to make in-game adjustments (with relative ease) and consistently obtain the maximum productivity from the talent they have.  I don't think Borges was able to do either.  

The oline was a disaster most of the season, and part of that was definitely not Al's fault.  But I think every offense has a deficiency that has to be overcome.  That's one of the "minigames" the coordinators have to deal with at this level.  That said, I agree with the general sentiment in this thread and hope he does well for himself.  So, I hope he doesn't go to ND, so that I can pull for him to be successful.

 

Ron Utah

January 12th, 2014 at 7:26 PM ^

It's so nice that we can still have "FIRE BORGES!" arguments here.  I don't know what the board would be like without them.

I feel Borges had a tough situation, but didn't do enough to make the best of it.  The guy deserved to get fired, because, at the end of the day, you can't argue with results.  He didn't get it done.

And it's especially nice when we can weave in a bit of "FIRE RR!" into the conversation.

AB is gone, and by all accounts, it appears his replacement is an upgrade.  The same could be said of RR.  Can't we agree to just let it go and move on?

Mazz and Blue

January 12th, 2014 at 4:20 PM ^

I'm happy for Al, I don't think our offensive problems were completely his fault.  I hope he's successful wherever he goes, unless he's playing Michigan.  I think Mattison could contain his offense, unless he tries something new. Like not running the ball into a stacked box 27 times.

991GT3

January 12th, 2014 at 4:23 PM ^

is Norv Turner. Considered one of the great offensive minds. Surprised Michigan did not go after him. With a new coach in Cleveland, Turner more than likely will be jobless.

However, Turner would not be a good fit at ND. Kelly runs that offensive.

jdib

January 12th, 2014 at 4:31 PM ^

I don't think it's as bad as people think.  I think Al would do a pretty good job running spread or manball looks with ND.  They have alot of talent.  That's never been an issue.  Our offense look unstopabble when things were clicking.  The problem was it looked absolutely atrocious when it wasn't.

 

Call it stubborn playcaling or maybe trying to ram a square peg in a round hole one too many times but I think with ND he will be able to call the plays and not have the same issues at ND.

Reader71

January 12th, 2014 at 11:04 PM ^

That's not entirely true. His passing game was not only effective, but fairly complex and still cohesive. Its just that Brian never picture paged the passing game, TV doesn't show route structure or development, and most fans don't even pretend to know passing concepts.

His run game was a muddled mess.

LSAClassOf2000

January 12th, 2014 at 4:59 PM ^

So the board is aware of a few of the other names that have been floated as Notre Dame's new OC...

Some of the other candidates, from what I understand, are the interim coordinator Mike Denbrock and even Buffalo Bulls head coach Jeff Quinn, who I believe is also part of the Kelly tree or was for a while. 

EDIT: Good call. Confusing MAC teams with NFL teams is fun. See post below. Fixed it. 

Ty Butterfield

January 12th, 2014 at 5:01 PM ^

Gorgeous Al will spend the whole summer planning for the Michigan game. He may stink it up the rest of the season, but he will look like a genius against Michigan.

BlueCube

January 12th, 2014 at 5:16 PM ^

Borges tore up a lot of teams when he had more experienced players in 2011. That team didn't have anything close to his usual types of players. Notre Dame, even with graduation of the starters, has a more experienced team than the 2013 Michigan team. I think the people thinking this would be a joke and a easy game for the defense would be in for a surprise.

PizzaHaus

January 12th, 2014 at 5:20 PM ^

"Tore up a lot of teams" is a generous way of putting it. We scored under 20 against the two defenses with a pulse we saw. 

We scored lots on ND and OSU, but that isn't saying much, given those defenses. After that, we (as usual) hung a shitload on teams like Minnesota, which isn't exactly something one puts on a resume. 

BlueCube

January 12th, 2014 at 6:19 PM ^

I didn't talk about defenses and I also mentioned it was without his types of players.

That being said, I don't think he was the right person for the job last year and I am 100% behind the change. However,I don't think Borges is a total moron as you seem to believe. All I said was given the type of players that fit his system, which I believe Notre Dame has (at least more than he has had at Michigan), he could be dangerous.

lazyfoot10

January 12th, 2014 at 5:21 PM ^

Damn. Reading this thread, you'd think firing Borges was a mistake. 

Did he deserve ALL the blame? Of course not. But come on. He is NOT a good offensive coordinator. The more he installed his "system" the worse we got. Denard put up better offensive numbers than Gardner running his "system" did just by being shoelace and bailing his butt out with giant runs.

Hope he lands on his feet (and Notre Dame is a pretty good landing spot) but come on people. We're gonna be better off without him.

BlockM

January 12th, 2014 at 5:54 PM ^

Thing is, we won't know whether it was a mistake until after this coming season. We know Nussmeier is a capable OC, so if he makes a lot of good things happen this coming season after losing Lewan and Schofield, it was obviously the right choice. If the offense still struggles at times while ND's does really well with Borges, we'll never know whether Borges was primarily at fault.

lazyfoot10

January 12th, 2014 at 11:03 PM ^

Yeah I don't get it either. 

During the season if you thought Borges was smart, you were stupid. 

Now that he's been fired, if you DON'T think he's smart, you are stupid. 

People can look at a few individual games, but if you look at his whole body of work, I'm not sure where this is all coming from. Our offense, for the most part, was a disaster. 

But hey, if all those games under 200 yards were good enough for some people, so be it. 

Reader71

January 12th, 2014 at 11:13 PM ^

Quite a few guys on here that know football were defending Borges all year. Youth, bad line, fans being mistaken on some game plans, etc

I don't miss him, and I'm excited about Nussmeier, but I suspect Nuss would be on the hot seat if he had to scheme behind last year's line.

Anyways, I think you're mistaken about the narrative. We didn't have up/down votes during the season. I think a lot more people were silently "pro-Borges" than the high number of "Fire Borges" posts would lead us to believe. Space Coyote almost quit the blog over a bunch of nasty comments, but now every time he posts, he gets at least 10 +1s. A lot of lurkers disagreed with you then and now, they just didn't comment as much then.

lazyfoot10

January 13th, 2014 at 12:26 AM ^

Not sure the number of "Pro-Borges" people is very high, but I'm sure there was a faction that certainly does/did exist. There was a lot more excitement about his firing than people second guessing, even if they are slowly coming out now. 

Not really sure what their point is either. I suppose if Borges goes to ND and succeeds, there could be quite a bit of "I TOLD YOU SO" going on, but I think even if one thought he was a good coordinator, they had to see a change was needed. 

Plus, we got Nuss, who, in my opinion, has just as good of a resume (better, really) and seems to be a better fit with Hoke's idea of his "Michigan offense". Additionally, he can recruit. 

I wish Borges well, and I do not blame him for everything, but out of all the questionable things to debate when it comes to Michigan, I'm not sure how this is becoming one of the bigger ones. Dumping him for Nuss seems like a slam dunk move.

Reader71

January 13th, 2014 at 12:55 AM ^

I agree on everything. I thought Borges an average coordinator. I stuck up for him a lot because I didn't believe that any coordinator could have success behind that line. But, like Coach Rod, the results weren't there. So he's gone. I'm of the same opinion on Funk. He's not a bad coach, and he was handcuffed by having to play freshmen, but the results probably merit a firing.

I don't think anyone is second guessing his firing. There is a difference between realizing his firing was justifiable and thinking he is terrible. Its a lot like Coach Rod; I don't think he would have ever worked out at Michigan, but I was 100% certain he'd do well elsewhere.

So, I won't miss Gorgeous Borges, but I don't see why a lot of people still think he was the biggest problem on the 2013 team. And I could see him doing fine at Notre Dame, which is what this thread is about. You kinda turned it into a "Didn't we agree Borges sucks?" thing. Some of us don't think he sucks. I am happy that all of us think Nuss is better, though.

AR-15

January 12th, 2014 at 5:29 PM ^

It would be terrifying and hilarious at the same time. It would probably keep me mildly interested in watching ND games going forward for the lulz

gwkrlghl

January 12th, 2014 at 5:32 PM ^

but we all know that if Borges ended up there somehow he'd be successful. We thought GERG would be a disaster at Texas and he did well. You just know we wouldn't get to laugh about this because Borges would somehow put 50 on us with Golson. Don't listen to reasoning, your gut tells you it will be so

FreddieMercuryHayes

January 12th, 2014 at 5:39 PM ^

Good god.  Knowning how much the Sports Gods have frowned on me my entire life, I expect Borges to put together the best game plan of his career and end up ruthlessley using a spread attack to evicerate the D.

I dumped the Dope

January 12th, 2014 at 5:55 PM ^

It seems like Hoke's plan worked.  Al isn't recognized as "damaged goods" meaning the failures aren't totally pinned on him and nobody would want him to lead their offense in the future.

Borges seems like he might be in the end of his career just viewing what I perceive as his age.  Whereas Nuss is probably in the prime of his career trying to elevate himself to a HC level.  No doubt that Borges is a journeyman coordinator and intelligent.  He seemed to lack a little fire and I didn't find his personality to be one of a strong leader.  That said, I only observed the press conferences and never went to a practice and I'm extrapolating to fill the void.

Were Al to be hired at ND it would be interesting to say the least.  It would be a super interesting matchup of Mattison and Borges who had a couple of years to face each other in practice and now get to line it up on TV.  After that I wish them as much success as they can get until Kelly has a venous blowout.

treetown

January 12th, 2014 at 6:09 PM ^

This news and the Nussmeier hire (who until he was named was not bandied about by anybody on the boards) show that the fans only know so much about what is occuring inside any complex organization. Unless Brian and Heiko start going to the American Football Coaches annual convention and any regional meetings on a regularly basis it will be hard to really know who knows who and how well and what types of bonds and relationships they have.

Good luck to Al Borges.

mgoO

January 12th, 2014 at 7:06 PM ^

Why do most of the comments imply Borges has already been hired? He's likely just being floated by his agent. If not, it's a weird marriage between him and Kelly to say the least.

jdib

January 12th, 2014 at 7:13 PM ^

I actually think alot of Al's problem was that we had a numerous amount of different "looks" for plays but we had no go-to bread and butter plays.  This becomes especially worrying when you have basically a rookie o-line who really just needs to develop for the handful of staple plays to be successful rather than 50 different looks that you are trying to practice and learn such as a half back pass from vincent smith( i know it wasn't this year) or some other wild transition of single reverse to double reverse next play.  It sounds like Nussmeier will bring those bread and butter plays that we can get solidify before attempting the more finesse/tricky plays.