Though I was intrigued by the possibility of TCU vs, a BCS school in a major bowl, this is a good choice IMO. This should be a good game that I will actually watch with interest. Two non-BCS schools, unprecedented but I think a good thing given this year. And I say this as a college elitist, which I know is controversial, but good for those schools, their fans will be sky high.
Boise vs. TCU in Fiesta. Good choice
I just wish we could see these teams play big time schools instead of each other. This game will, in the grand scheme of things, tell us nothing. We'll just know who the best baby seal clubber is. I'd much prefer watching TCU play Florida and Boise play, say, G-Tech.
This IME, is a complete cop-out by the BCS. Now as long Florida takes care of business against Cincy they don't have to worry about a Utah-like situation again, and get to pretend that the system worked itself out by the end of the year.
If the Fiesta Bowl colluded with other bowls to pick a card that was most suitable for preserving the integrity of the MNC that would be unprecedented to say the least.
I know TCU and Boise both have different players than last year, but it would still be more interesting to see them play different teams than having a rematch of last year's Humanitarian Bowl. It should be a good game but I would rather see how these teams stack up against the traditional powers. I would also think that the BCS would want to avoid having so many undefeated teams. It will just create more controversy and now there will automatically be at least 2.
I couldn't disagree with you more. Other than the championship game, these games are meaningless. Boise and TCU earned a chance to take the scalp of BCS conference school, like Utah and Boise did in the past few years.
These teams didn't need the BCS to get together for a bowl game. They played last year.
Everyone loves to cheer for the underdog, so instead of having two games where people can cheer for the underdog, the BCS puts both underdogs against each other. Super lame.
BSU and TCU were basically shammed out of their only chance of playing a traditional powerhouse.
to Alabama. In what world (not the playoff fantasy world that we do not live in) does TCU deserve a shot over Texas?
Texas looked terrible last night. And IME, when you are on a national stage, you shouldn't get to look horrendous and go to the BCS Championship.
I'd say the real world. TCU is an extremely impressive team with one of the best defenses in the country. they deserve a shot just as much as Texas does. so in response neg 1 to you sir!
But a shot to play against any traditional powerhouse school in any BSC game. I'm sure the last school TCU wanted to play was BSU. They want a chance to prove that they can run with the big boys - not necessarily for the national championship, just any BSC bowl against a powerhouse.
Alabama/Texas was the only sensible match up for the MNC. The point is that Boise and TCU should get to play teams other than each other.
Imagine TCU's tough defense against Florida's offense. Boise's crazy offense and GT's flexbone. That would have left Iowa and Cincinnati in a good Midwest cross conference game...somewhere warm.
Boise/TCU will be a good game, just a shame they can't play against some different opponents.
This world right here. TCU is undefeated and they have absolutely dominated their last 7 opponents. Their closest game in their last 7 was a 27 point win against Utah who finished 23rd in the final BCS standings. They also had a 31 point win against BYU who finished 14th in the final BCS standings.
Texas, on the other hand, struggled to win their last 2 games. They definitely didn't look like a championship caliber team against Texas A&M or Nebraska.
Texas finished the season with 2 total wins against teams that finished in the final top 25 (#19 Oklahoma St & #22 Nebraska). TCU also had 2 wins against teams that finished in the top 25 (#14 BYU & #23 Utah).
Neither team played a difficult schedule this year. In the games that I've seen, TCU has looked much more dominant than Texas. The only reason that Texas is getting the nod over TCU is because they're a traditional powerhouse in a BCS conference. I would be willing to bet anything that if Texas had played TCU's schedule and TCU had played Texas's schedule, and they both went undefeated, Texas would still get the nod over TCU because of the perception about the schools.
Yes, there is a perception that the B12 plays superior football overall and has more talent overall than the MWC. That perception is entirely correct.
I think its a horrible choice. The BCS just pulled the biggest, easiest cop out of all time. "Hmmm two seemingly deserved MNC contenders from non-BCS schools....well we don't want to see BSU v. Oklahoma, Utah vs. Alabama, etc anymore so let's just have them play each other!"
This system has got to go. Complete and utter bullshit.
BCS to "other" undefeateds: "You can't go to the MNC game because you're not from a BCS conference and hence are subpar."
Cincinnati: "What about us?"
BCS: "We'll get back to you..."
This is a game that both schools are excited about and are happy to be in, what's the problem?
And BTW, Cinci is playing Florida, how is that a disappointment?
because -- regardless of the possibility in your mind -- if they truck Florida they have a legit gripe that this bullshit system again picked the wrong team to be in the MNC game. You're excluding qualified teams. I couldn't care less which gets better ratings...I would prefer a LEGITIMATE National Championship game. You're now purposefully excluding THREE qualified contenders for the MNC because of pixie dust and bias.
edit: I guess the MNC game has to be a blowout, too for my scenario to successfully occur.
devolve into the "system sucks we need a playoff?" I'm commenting on the system we have, not one that we won't have within the next ten years.
its hard to get juiced about bowl games when you're naming a "national champion" which is a complete and utter joke. Either fix the system or get rid of the title and we can talk about bowl games. Meaningless exhibitions are stupid. Do you watch the NFL pre-season, too?
College players LIKE bowl games and are excited to be in them. Every survey done shows that, even though a substantial minority wants a playoff. We don't have one, arguing that we shoukd is completely irrelevant for now.
that's a ridiculous statement.
"we don't have x. arguing for x is completely irrelavent"
I'd be SUPER excited for bowl games if they hadn't bastardized every single one so that they don't mean anything anymore. But they have. They've rendered bowl games irrelevant. They've made me pine for the days of CO-National Champs because the AP and the Coaches disagreed.
It rests on the argument that the system sucks. Therefore it is irrelevant and immaterial. In the system we have, which I am not defending, this is the best we can hope for. Everyone here argues "the system sucks." I agree. But I'm not defending the system, I'm defending the choice of Texas over TCU. Two different things.
huh...because you've said only one thing about that alleged subject: "And that's fine, but anyone that thinks they[TCU] could beat Bama is delusional IMO."
and that is admittedly Opinion. So where exactly were you defending the Texas pick? nowhere.
My point was that my OP had nothing to do with the integrity of the bowl system. Only that I thought TCU vs. Boise would be a good game. I agree with those who say that the BCS system has devalued all the other bowls, and in fact, if we can't get a playoff, I'd rather have the old bowl system than the one we have. But that wasn't what I was trying to discuss.
I think anytime you talk about the BCS, you're opening up a discussion on alternatives.
I don't think that they're as excited as FOX makes it seem. I'm pretty sure the echoes on both campuses are "Man, I wish we had a chance for a title, that's not fair. It's a popularity contest... Let's show the country why we should have been in the title game and win this bowl game..."
This is a rematch from last year's Poinsettia Bowl. It's not the same thing as a same year rematch, but this has been seen before.
I'm sure I will watch some of this game, but it does not have the same excitement. Outside of the national title game, the only other BCS game people get juiced for are these non-BCS vs BCS conference bowl games.
You both beat me to it. Hopefully this is an evenly matched game and perhaps this sparks an annual rivalry. Other than that, I'm pretty disappointed.
That being said, Cincinatti has a huge opportunity to make a name for itself (and for schools that don't benefit from bias, like TCU, Boise State.)
If Cincinatti pulls an upset, they will not only raise their own program, but would change the perception of the Big East up as well.
How is it that so many people misspell Cincinnati?
I consider myself a phenomenal speller; I think I remember that thread... I think it had to do with one of those challenges to name every single NCAA football team, and I actually came within about 8, And I couldn't spell it then, I can't spell it after a few cold ones and a long weekend (involving the Rutgers-WVU game, FWIW.)
Either way, does it matter? It's in Ohio.
No, it doesn't matter. It was actually 5-6 threads over a few day period, so I thought I'd just throw it out there. Any time I use a tag like [/brodie], it's meant as a joke.
Having them play each other makes the whole reward (aside from the increased money) meaningless. The whole point of making the BCS is to test yourself against the best and now neither team will get that chance. Not to mention that most of America will quickly change the channel and enjoy a steamy mug of "Who gives a shit?".
If you are a "everyone is equal" despite playing in non-BCS conferences, what's wrong with playing Boise?
Do you think those guys at TCU busted their ass all year with the hope that they could get to the BCS and play a team from the WAC? Same goes for Boise. This is a BCS game in name only and does not provide either team a legit shot to prove themselves on the national stage against a team from a power conference.
IMO they would rather play in the title game, who wouldn't? But I think they are really proud to be there regardless.
they're proud to be there like a virgin is proud to be in a strip club....
in the Fiesta Bowl, they'd be deliriously happy.
If you told us pre-season we would go 6-6 and go bowling, I would be moderately happy. If I was told that we did today, and everyone was pulling a prank on my for the last 4 months, I'd be stoked. It doesn't matter someone's reaction before the season, the fact is they went undefeated this season, and now that they did, they should get a better chance to prove themselves than a game vs. Boise State. Maybe they're not better than Texas or Alabama, but I'd rather see them play against Florida, Cincinnati, or Georgia Tech than another mid-major. And not just any mid-major, but one that they played last year in the San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl.
I think if you're a TCU fan, you have to be disappointed, because the BCS has basically established a ceiling for you. Even though mid-majors have competed well in previous BCS games (save Hawaii), they'll still get no respect.
They would also rather play a name school from a BCS conference. I'm sure they are proud of their undefeated season, but I guarantee that they are disappointed that the reward is only getting to play another no-name school with a good record.
I will attempt to confirm this sentiment (my cousin's wife's cousin is a back-up tight end for TCU and I plan to exploit my unparalleled access to inside information on the pulse of the Horned Frogs).
Utah proved it could hang with the big boys last year. Why not give others a chance?
I agree wholeheartedly. (with JC3)
Because now they get to keep their system. Because if you put up one of them against Cincy and they blow them out then you have a controversy. This way you put the two guys who could create controversy together and avoid it as much as possible.
Great move by the BCS.
Uh, no. If you put them up against Florida and the Gators pummel them, THEN you keep your system because you showed that they didn't belong. Instead, you marginalized them, and the winner gets to claim they deserved a shot the NC.
At least last year when it happened, Utah beat Alabama and had an argument.
You either get an upset possibility, with all that excitement, OR you get a beat down that keeps the little guy in his place.
Fun viewing vs. Big School Program dominance. Coming from Michigan, that's win-win.
You could have had one play Florida and one play Iowa. In neither instance does a win by the non-BCS school create a legit "We should be number 1 argument." Just ask Utah last year. It is a weak move to try and concentrate viewers on the other games.
First of all the BCS doesn't collaborate as a whole on who gets picked where (beyond tie-ins). Secondly, even if that were the framework, it wouldn't be a great move. This guarantees one of these teams finishes undefeated. It basically crowns a non-BCS champion that never had a shot at being in the actual title game.
Well now instead of 3 BCS games not to watch, there are only 2.
+1 to you
Yea I know! GT v Iowa and oregon v. ohio are going to be the best games!!! :)
Both of these teams deserve to play a BCS power rather than each other.
What bugs me more though is that you know the BCS will make a big PR thing out of this. The first time they've ever allowed 2 non-BCS teams in and they won't get to prove anything. The BCS comes out looking like the good guy but all they've done is save their BCS conference teams from possible losses.
Complete cop-out by the BCS.
Texas IS EVERY bit as deserving as TCU to pay in the title game. To deny that is to deny reality.
the problem is not deserving its ability. Cincinnati is as deserving as Texas as TCU as Boise State as Alabama. The problem comes that only Texas and Alabama had any shot to get there.
It used to be all you had to do was go undefeated.
Then you had to go undefeated and be from a BCS school.
Now you have to be undefeated and be from a power BCS school.
What's next? You have to be undefeated from a power BCS school that lies no further North than that Mason-Dixon unless you've won by at least 13 points in all games and can give us the exact air-speed velocity of a coconut laden swallow?
Your argument is irrelevant.
I don't like what you have to say so, I win.
I had crossed the line from being pleasantly toasted to perhaps drunk. Yikes.
First the Sugar loses Bama, so they take Florida. Got it, makes sense.
Then Fiesta loses Texas, and takes...TCU? (or the even worse choice, Boise) not the number three team in the country? Was it about travel distance tickets??
Then the Orange has the first pick, and takes the lowest rated at large team in the bowls?? Not Boise (or TCU?). Not the #3 team who WAS available (who admittedly played there last year).
Then the Fiesta goes again, and has the power to avoid the rematch, and STILL get #3 vs. 4, because of the Orange's pick and sets up the 2nd string bowl.
And the Sugar just sits back and gets the #3 team for a pretty good in name match-up (and if it's not, they are the SEC bowl with a bunch of happy SEC fans in town spending money partying and saying Bama-Florida was the REAL national championship game).
What the bowls did under THIS system doesn't make any sense.
If anything this automatically reduces the number of teams that can be undefeated. I'm not a fan, but I'll probably watch.
But it also guarantees that there will be two undefeated teams at the season's end.
A) That's what the national championship game does.
B) That's what a playoff would do.
C) That's what the regular season does.
Isn't that the point of all of this?
yea, I think this is terrible decision. I would have loved to see these teams play major conference opponents. Because they are legit teams. I would have rather Boise not make it just so we can compare how good TCU is against someone.
We already know that the WAC champion beat the Pac10 champ. Lets see if the Mtn. West Champ can knock off another conference champ. Also I will not be watching the orange bowl now as it does not interest me. I'd love for Cincinnati to beat Florida 33-13 just to prove a point(no pun intended).
Oh well I guess the big ten along with the SEC is the only conference with 2 teams...
i was looking forward to seeing TCU and how they matched up against florida, but now i get to see florida absolutely shit on cincy, a meaningless boise tcu game which happened last year, texas prolly get dominated by 'bama because ut can't move the ball against good defenses, a snooze fest with iowa and georgia tech running the ball with the goal to not screw up, the best matchup may be osu/oregon and in that game i expect oregon to run circles around osu ... and btw msu got texas tech in the alamo which is probably the worst matchup ever for msu.
Didn't the BCS selection show used to feature entire teams/groups of fans cheering/"officially accepting" bowl bids? Much more interesting than Nick Saban by himself.
Sigh. Was the replay really necessary?
Overall, I know they think that there are no fans of all the minor bowls, but couldn't we have some analysis of them rather than 10 minute NBA updates...?
Edit: THREE times! (Hey, we talked to a bunch of coaches tonight...let's show the one with the least personality in America thrice!). And really, couldn't they make it more like the NCAA Tourney show where they analyze each game, at least a little??
Welcome to fox college football coverage.
At least it's over after this season.
I don't have any interest in seeing TCU face Boise. I saw Boise play at Tulsa this season in person and was not impressed at all. I really think they will roll Boise. I may be in the minority, but IMO TCU could beat Bama.
We'll never know, but for what it's worth I think that TCU has a better shot than Texas.
And that's fine, but anyone that thinks they could beat Bama is delusional IMO.
I don't think it's that delusional. Alabama hasn't looked overly strong until late in the season. If they came out a little flat, I think TCU could definitely hang in there and maybe even beat the Tide. I don't think they'd be favored, but I think it would be less than Bama -13.
2008 Utah Utes
chance is delusional. I won't bore you with all of the upsets over the course of the past few years but that is why they play the games.
TCU would definitely have a punchers chance just as any team that is undefeated would.
Yes, of course anyone who thinks the TCU team who crushed Utah and BYU could beat the Alabama team that squeaked by Tennessee is a delusional idiot. Why didn't I think of that....
don't deserve to be be the same sentence. How did BYU do against FSU? Logic FAIL.
How did Tennessee do against a terrible UCLA team? The poster didn't say TCU would blow out Alabama, merely that they have blown out their best opponents while Bama struggled mightily with a number of not-so-great teams.
TCU blew out everyone on their schedule, while Alabama struggled with a couple of middling teams. I think Bama would win head-to-head but acting like TCU wouldn't have a shot (especially after Utah smoked the Tide last year) is ridiculous.
My point was that his rational that they had crushed BYU and Utah, is not that impressive IMO. Especially when a 6-6 FSU team destroyed BYU even more impressively. My argument, which is certainly debatable, is that people who talk about non-BCS schools so impressively walking through their conferences miss something. All conferences are not equal.
Were you hibernating during last year's bowls?
I don't like it at all...I wanted to see these teams split up with Iowa and Ga Tech. This is just going to tell us who is the best of two teams that we have no idea about.
Screwed them out of sending a well deserved "Fuck you" to big conference schools, even though they earned it. To steal a line from twitter, its like they sent them to the little kids table. I might watch cinci-florida or the MNC game, but I'd rather watch a shot at love reruns than the fiesta bowl.
Well the Fiesta has regulated itself back the minor bowl game it has always intended to be. They are geniuses though. Every year from now on they can pit the WAC and Mtn West champs against each other, put it on at 10:30 or so Eastern Time on some early Saturday night in January, show it on Fox Sports Rocky Mountain, and everyone can glimpse at the internet on Sunday morning to see who won. This will save the rest of the country from having to hear or see about the WAC champs and Mtn West champs. Thanks Fiesta Bowl!!
This will be a great game! I will be glued to my TV watching this game that I am actually looking forward to more than Texas vs. Bama. I wish TCU would play Cincinnati and BSU could play Iowa. I think those are two much more intriguing matchups and would once and for all prove that non BCS schools can beat any school in the country, I hate how a couple years ago BSU played a good game but Oklahoma lost the game because they didn't play to their potential. Still I will be watching this game with the upmost interest.
I couldn't agree more with those who think this is a sham.
The BCS is using this as a cop out and how sad is that? It seems like no matter what these small teams do, they will NEVER get to join the club that the BCS has created for itself. It seems so kindergarten of college football.
At least this is the last year of Fox covering the BCS!
It's like inviting the kids to the party but sitting them at a separate table.
Dammit. I would have loved to see Boise vs. Iowa and TCU vs GTech, just to see what would happen (most efficient passer vs. Iowa D and GTech triple option against TCU). TCU vs Boise just seems like a poor man's NC, with no real effect from the outcome. How many times does Boise have to go undefeated for them to get a chance at a big-shot BCS team?
Repeating Callahan, they played last year.
The TCU players didn't work so hard to crash the party to play...Boise State? And the Boise State players didn't sign up to play...TCU? It's just too anti-climatic.
People watched Boise St. play Oklahoma a few years back partially to see if the "little guys" could do it. Same goes for Utah last season and a few seasons ago. I have to believe that there were fans that watched those games just to see if "David" could pull off the upset against Goliath. Sure Hawaii got shellacked, and the "David-seekers" turned the TV off then...but it doesn't always have to happen that way. Florida vs. TCU makes lots of sense in the Sugar Bowl (and TCU might even have an advantage...or not...but I think that it could be close given TCU's defense). Cincy vs. Boise State works in the Fiesta Bowl (and Boise State has shown that they will travel to Tempe).
On to the picks:
Bama wilts out West (Texas wins by 17)
Cincy is better than you think (Beat Florida by 14)
Buckeyes beat the quack out of the duck (win by 14...Remember a 14 point lead to Tressel is like a 30 point lead to other coaches)
TCU beats Boise State (again). *Yawn*
Iowa's D-line busts up the triple option, and the Hawks squeak out a 7 point win in the most interesting BCS game of the season.
They couldn't score 17 against Nebraska.
and cincy by 14? they needed a missed XP to beat a meh pitt team... i really don't think cincy stands a chance -- florida's d got throttled yesterday, but id still maintain that their defense is good enough to shut down a QB (pike) who has padded his numbers against soft defenses.
This is such a joke, just another slap at "non-BCS" schools. What better way to say "They haven't proven themselves" than to have them play another neglected school? But, it's not like I thought anything else would occur, the people selecting the bowls are the ones trying to save face.
There is no doubt in my mind that the powers that be colluded to match TCU and Boise together in the same bowl.
Look at it this way: as the current system stands, the BCS is set up to create a monopoly between the 6 major conferences and the power brokers at the 4 major bowls.
A playoff would a) force the revenue from these major bowl games to be more equitably distributed amongst all conferences instead of just the 6 BCS conferences and b) essentially reduce or eliminate the power wielded -and financial windfall- from the various bowl committees of these 4 major bowls.
Because of this, anything that could possibly spark an even more heated debate of a playoff is bad for the bowl committees, who are the ones who select the matchup.
Interestingly, the BCS could have had matchups of 1 vs. 2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8 and 9/10 if they went Cincy/TCU and Florida/Boise. However, if (God forbid) both of the non-BCS schools won against major conferences, the push for a playoff would be heightened even more and the playoff drum would keep beating louder, which is obviously bad for the bowl games.
Instead, the Fiesta Bowl colluded with the other bowls to essentially eliminate the possibility of embarrassment faced by Oklahoma and Alabama from previous season, so they selected both Boise and TCU. Now we'll never know how good those two teams are because the bowl collusion forced them to play each other instead of major conference teams.
Again, well done BCS.
Boise throttled the Pac-10 champion. TCU beat Clemson just like GTech did. Iowa/Boise and TCU/GTech, or TCU/Florida would have been awesome games. Instead the BCS decides to fuck everyone. Awesome.
would rather not see a rematch of the 2008 Poinsettia Bowl. These two teams deserved a chance to show they can beat up the big conference reps (which they can).
Would love to see Boise State bitch slap OSU (as an unlikely example) or TCU smoke Tebow for example... s
If the team that wins this thing goes undefeated again next year, then they probably should be given a chance to play for all the marbels next year.
It's been said over and over and over, but:
This is super-lame. They basically took the two largest threats to BCS conference hegemony and, rather than letting them go play a "power conference" team, they're putting them in "the irrelevance bowl". Because the fanbases of the teams are smaller than, say, OSU or Florida, fewer people will watch, and more people will walk out with the erroneous assumption that these teams are inferior, despite the mountain of evidence (Boise's sheer-domination of Oregon, TCU's win @ Clemson) that they're entirely capable of playing with the best of the BCS conferences.
I'm not going to argue that TCU belongs over Texas (though wouldn't it be amazing if there was just...some...way that one could show they're better definitively, by some system where the contenders played each other in some sort of a tournament format?) but every BCS buster save Hawaii has won their game, and then we get to hear about "Well, Oklahoma wasn't motivated" or some shit.
TCU beat 3 teams in the top 25 - Clemson, Utah, BYU. Texas only scheduled 1 (OK State), and then, by virtue of a conference championship, were forced to play a 2nd. Maybe the MWC should make a championship game so TCU could beat Utah again? Would that be better?
I think it's the exact opposite in terms of reasoning but the same result. The Fiesta Bowl had the first choice in the bowl selection, they could have had a number of INCREDIBLE match-ups. But the telling thing is their decision not to invite Cincinnati, the number 3 team in the BCS who has a more legitimate claim to the MNC than Boise. Cincy has a very small fanbase who did not travel well to the Orange Bowl last year, a game nobody watched. Boise, believe it or not is a draw in person and on TV. The Fiesta bowl is banking on curiosity winning out here.
but kind of misses the boat for me. Give me the non BCS underdogs vs the BCS beasts. I would rather see Georgia Tech vs. TCU/BSU.