Bob Costas on Meet the Press: 'Death penalty' for PSU football.

You are correct.

No loss of eligibility sure, but forcing all those kids to leave the school they currently play for to go play somewhere else is still a punishment for the kids.

situation, many of the players were actively involved in the cheating aspect of the program. The current players of Penn State are as innocent as you can be in this whole sordid affair.

that Costas hadn't given it some thought, at least not in your characterization. That would have been my response, too--tough.

Admittedly I haven't read the most recent documents in this case and am not fully up to date but I don't see what the death penalty would solve here. What the death penalty would really hurt would be the current players, students and other athletes who play sports funded by psu football. Also, this is really a legal matter and the focus should be kept on helping the victims and bringing awareness to this crime and crimes like it. Imposing a death penalty on psu would shift that focus to the future of the football program which at the end of the day isn't directly relevant to helping the victims.

Sidenote, he was an awesome dude.  He was one of the first people I actually met at  UofM.  I came from a school in NYC, where virtually no one went to U of M, so during a summer tour and ultimately orientation, I ran into him at the Union and he welcomed me to campus (informally.)  I had no idea who he was until someone else told me.

I'm sorry, I can't take many of these arguments in favor of giving them a one year ban/death penalty seriously. The arguments are terribly shortsighted and the analogies to other teams are totally pointless because the effects would be drastically different. Here are some of my reasons:

1. How in the world does suspending the football team send a message to anybody? Who would receive this message that hasn't already? You don't think public officials subject to reporting requirements across the country are already pretty damn aware of what might happen now? The scandal is referenced on every Michigan site I visit, every facebook newsfeed, millions of twitter account, and every news source. Is some administrator out there going to decide to turn somebody in because they are now afraid that their school might lose a season of football? NO! They would turn somebody in because otherwise they would go to "pound you in the ***" prison and have their entire name, family, reputation, and life ruined. I think that would motivate me a little more than not having a season of football.

2. The references to USC, OSU, and Michigan basketball are completely different for many reasons. First, let's talk about punishing the innocent. OSU, USC, and Michigan lost out on a season or two of hanging up a banner by not being able to compete in the post season. Big deal. It sucks and all, but what does that really mean in the grand scheme of things? USC and OSU are still pulling in great recruits, still playing and winning games, and their players are still playing for the school, team, and coach of their choice, and they still get a degree from the school of their choice and are still top NFL prospects regardless of what Reggie Bush or Terrell Pryor did.

Fast forward to PSU and them losing a season or getting a death penalty of indefinite duration. Let's look at the effects. The players would likely have to stay and give up their love of football or transfer. Staying would kill or severly damage any NFL prospects as they would not play for at least a year. Leaving would deprive them of credits (usually), knowledge of the scheme and technique they learned, comfort, likely proximity to home for many recruits, relationships with people at PSU whether friends or girlfriends, a good degree, choice of education, the major of choice (for some), and the list just goes on. Players that aren't established would likely have little to no chance to get an equal scholarship opportunity, many having to go to MAC or lower division schools. The harm to the players would be IMMENSE. It would serve no purpose. And what about the new coaching staff to boot? Some of these guys just came from other schools or the NFL for the chance to not have a job for something they literally had nothing to do with at all? That makes sense. Did Tressel get fired for his role? Yes, but he was the cause. Same for a guy like Fisher. This would be similar to Tommy Amaker getting fired because a penalty was handed out 10 years later.

3. Lastly, stop trying to say tattoos and houses didn't effect the play on the field any more than covering up a 15 year old non-football player related scandal. That's just silly. For starters, the coaches at those schools would have (and likely did) cover up evidence of these things to keep their best players eligible (Pryor being the perfect example). This won games. The promise of these extra benefits brought in players. This won games. The argument that revealing a sex scandal helped recruiting doesn't hold much water when the new coach has already recruited a top 10-15ish class thus far. Even if it did matter, we're comparing affirmative acts relating to actual players (like giving out money) to omissions relating to a former coach and non-players. Not even remotely similar.

P.S. About SMU. Did players get punished there for the acts of others? Yes. But let's be honest -- the players, coaches, fans, and even opposing fans ALL KNEW what was going on there. It was plain as day. It's not like their recruits were shocked it happened. Even those guys who didn't receive benefits would be idiots to not know it. How could a PSU player have known this or had any responsibility for this in any possible way? They wouldn't.

I don't know why all of a sudden people are concerned about innocent players being punished.  That's always happened.  

Why do people have trouble with the idea that NCAA has never been an organization capable of punishing the guilty?  The players just go pro (Pryor) or are long gone by the time the NCAA arrives.  The coaches still walk away with their money (Tressel) or find new jobs (Caroll).  

The current crop of players does suffer int hat they have to either stick around on a crippled team or transfer (normally without penalty).  That is the way it has always been.  Except in the rare case when you get some freshman who the NCAA can sanction and he's too young to bolt to the pros.  

The PSU of killing off the PSU Athletic Department is to make the statement "When you try to cover up things like to protect your cash cow program, we will find out about it eventually and do what the Romans did to Carthage to your department."  It's about setting the precedent and forcing the University to take the economic hit for noncompliance, that is what the NCAA has always done. 

We want to walk away with something that results in every AD in America having the local number for child services burned into his brain and mass incentive to expand efforts to insure compliance with reporting policies.  

I don't disagree with your analogies in theory, but the difference here is that the point of punishment in these cases is deterrence.  You put the robber in jail because you want to stop him from doing it again, and to keep him off the streets.  Same with the speeder - he needs to slow down, and too many points and tickets and he loses his license.

**Note - I am not saying that incarceration actually addresses the dual concerns of punishment and limiting recidivism. 

Even the response to 9/11 has been about (at least ostensibly) limiting the potential for the same/similar crime occurring.  But with PSU, the crime that was committed is highly unlikely to occur again.  Sexual assault of children isn't a football problem; it's a problem of one man and the inability/unwillingness of those around him to stop it.  Yes, punishing PSU football would tell other programs not to cover up heinous crimes, but my guess is that message has already been heard loud and clear.  This isn't paying players or skirting recruiting concerns - sexually assaulting boys in shower rooms is not a recurring problem in CFB.

I completely agree with this.  If covering this up had no benefit, why do it?  Clearly, Paterno, et al felt that this getting out would hurt the program, so much so that they let a criminal go unpunished.  Obviously they felt there was plenty to gain from a football standpoint to keeping it hush hush.

This is just like tatgate but on a much larger scale.  The NCAA wasn't upset with OSU for having a few players get tattoos in exchange for their swag.  The NCAA was upset with Tressell and Co. for knowing about it and keeping it hush hush. 

A coaching staff and administration covering up any act to avoid punishment (whether it be from the NCAA, the police, the court of public opinion, etc.) should be a punishable act itself, by the NCAA.

And everyone always thinks it's completely OK that current players are punished for the program's past sins.

I guess I should clarify. When I say "it has nothing to do with football," I mean that in a competitive sense. The scandal was an administrative one, it had to do with the football program in as much as the administrators wanted to protect the image and reputation of the program (and by extension, the school). But it didn't actually have anything to do with the playing of the game itself, therefore it's not the responsibility of the NCAA. There are other institutions responsible for punishing PSU.

and would and could happen in any organization in the country. If it happened at McDonalds would you say it was because of hamburgers?

I think the true deterent here is the hell PSU has been in, and will continue to reside in, in our society. They have lost millions of dollars in lost donations, (assumed) loss of applicants to the school, and a certain loss in prestige.

A financial penalty or penalty to the football program offers little deterent in comparison.

the NCAA does not consider first-hand knowlege of sexual assault to be a suitable on-campus learning activity. Please don't do it or we will punish your sports programs.

If it takes the NCAA to send that message there is no hope for society regardless of their actions.

Doing the right thing for whom?  Honest question - for the victims?  I doubt they'll care if people unrelated to what happened to them can't play football?  For the opposition? For the fans? - none of whom are guilty of the crimes, who didn't know it happened and are rightly appalled by knowing it occurred.  Or for the media and the anonymous internet denizens who love to see people suffer to right some cosmic wrongs that the universe keeps score of? 

PSU is going to be a shell of a football/school for years because of this from a PR standpoint, and I think that will be enough.

Do you honestly think the vast majority of PSU fans (both in Happy Valley and outside) feel PSU is not guilty?  Sure, there are always going to be some wackos who ignore reality, but from what I've seen the vast majority of the fans and alumni have come to grips with the atrocities that happened under Sandusky, and while they don't believe that it will forever stain their memories of PSU or its non-football stature, certainly understand the ramifications and what it means for the teams they cheered.

The media coverage has elevated the extremely small minority who continue to believe Paterno is a saint as a major block of the fandom, but that clearly isn't the case.

but Pitt hasn't played Penn State since 2000, and PSU isn't on the schedule again until 2016.

And many of them didnt.

That is true, but SMU and PSU are very different schools with very different athletic programs too, so id expect a much quicker recovery if this did somehow happen.

The adjustment from professional to amateur status may have had a bit to do with the decline in quality too.

A 20 year demolition to minor college status sounds about right for PSU's football program.  The Big Ten should just boot them out anyways.

and quick to attack Joe-pa.  I'm not saying that Bowden is wrong, but people have to remember that Bowden has a pony in this race, considering it's Joe-pa that prevented Bowden from the all-time wins coaching record.

Yes willy will. Shockingly I have a solid grasp on what happened and am now considering future implications. Specifically how and if it would challenge our schedule. Nothing about this nags me... Dude touched kids, got caught ( to late ) dude goes to prison, others will be punished as well.. Case closed. Shit happens in life, im not surprised at anything anymore, been happening in the church for a long time, humans are largely, morally over estimated. Moving on and wondering how it will effect our team. Pretty cynical i get that but i don't have the time or empathy to worry about others, i focus on "me and mine".

No one is arguing there will not be collateral damage. But if there is any community that deserves the excess damage, it would be the cult that worships JoePa and PSU football. It is that culture that fostered this coverup. Additionally, the student riots after Paterno was fired, the continued support after the Freeh report and the reluctance to take down that statue all underscore the lack of insight possesed by the bulk of that community. They need to get rocked to the core to make them appreciate the gravity of what happened.



The problem is that they can't process and come to terms with the fact the last 60 yrs of their way of life was based upon a farce.

Coercing PSU to drop their program makes no difference wherther its from the givernment or the NCAA. Come on.

I understand your points, but they are being punished more severly in the judicial system than they could in the NCAA, which is an athletics enforecement body. This was a coverup by a few people at the top of the school structure (including the former president Spanier and defacto president Paterno).

I am just trying to have a discussion here and am not flaming. If the NCAA did enforce the death penalty, under what mechanism would they use? LOI? It has been widely speculated that any severe punishment given by the NCAA will be met with a lawsuit from PSU, which they would probably win.

Knew that a penalty was coming...he could have gone elsewhere.