Bill Martin = The Most Important Person in Wolverine Nation Right Now
Generally, this is way overblown. We do not know the facts and they are not likely to be as blatantly bad as the FP makes it seem, but ...
One thing has been nagging at me all night. It is a very real possibility that the NCAA has watched programs push the envelope on "mandatory" v. "voluntary" activities for years and is looking for a situation to reign things in a bit. Michigan would be the perfect situation, given its big profile and unblemished history. The flip side of this is the NCAA knows if it just ignores these allegations at a program like Michigan then everyone else will think it is a license to go hog wild and ignore the time limitations entirely. I am not saying we are going to get hit with major violations or penalties, but this is a very serious situation and how it is handled by Michigan will make a big difference in the outcome.
Bill Martin needs to step up and launch a very, very thorough investigation of these allegations and, in fact, of all sports at Michigan. Hopefully, he will only find some minor violations in interpreting the rules, and he will implement new "institutional" controls to correct the situation and prevent a repeat of the violations in the future. And, depending on what the investigation actually finds, Michigan might need to impose some self sanctions, e.g., 2 year probation for the sports found to be most in violation. If BM and Michigan do that, they will change a negative into a positive, do the NCAA's job for them and become the example the NCAA wants without causing any major damage to the program. Bill Martin ... we never needed you more.
August 30th, 2009 at 3:37 PM ^
...then he should do so after he has fired all of the compliance officers he previously hired. I mean, you do think these people are doing their jobs, don't you?
August 30th, 2009 at 3:44 PM ^
And what Bill Martin thinks is irrelevant. We are now operating in the world of perception. If Michigan does not undertake an investigation it will be perceived as circling the wagons and not taking the situation seriously. That will only make it more likely the NCAA will launch an investigation and view Michigan just like every other school. Michigan is not just like every other school and BM needs to send that message.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:00 PM ^
"These allegations are totally off-base. We have compliance officers that work extremely hard and who monitor the hours with microscopic precision. We have an athletic department and football coaching staff that is committed to following the rules, first and foremost. We completely deny these allegations and refuse to conduct an investigation just because someone shouted 'fire' in a crowded theater. There is no need for us to self-investigate when we already know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are in full compliance with NCAA regulations regarding this matter. Thanks and see you all on Saturday."
I agree with you that we are operating in perception. However, if BM starts an investigation, how will that be perceived? That will send the message that there is something that needs to be investigated. You don't look into cheating every time someone yells out, "hey, you cheated," especially when it comes from only one person (and no one else) who only accuses you (and no one else) of cheating.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:15 PM ^
We had compliance officers watching over the Ed Martin debacle too. If I were Bill Martin and Michigan, I would be very careful not to make bold statements until I know for sure they are true.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:33 PM ^
Ed Martin was a money scandal involving off-campus activites that are not directly watched by compliance officers (unless you believe that he handed out the money as they walked off the court from practice and/or games, in which case it would've been reported instantaneously). This current situation is about hours of participation within the buildings that are easily observable.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:39 PM ^
Are you saying that it is not the job of compliance to make sure players are not receiving money from boosters?
August 30th, 2009 at 5:17 PM ^
I'm saying that participation hours literally happen in-house (and are easy to observe) while boosters paying players happens off-campus where no compliance officers can see. In other words, paying players is hidden from compliance officers, whereas participation hours is not. You can't fault compliance officers for not seeing a booster giving a kid money in some back room off-campus.
It is impossible for the Michigan Football program to massively violate the NCAA rulebook on participation hours without the compliance officers knowing about it. Therefore, for these allegations to be true, the compliance officers would have to be in on the cheating. And how many of these compliance officers are Rodriguez's hires? I bet zero, which means these compliance officers have no personal interest in protecting Rodriguez, other than keeping their University out of trouble. And if they really wanted to bust RichRod for this, they would have done so a long time ago.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:14 PM ^
“You can't fault compliance officers for not seeing a booster giving a kid money in some back room off-campus.” Steve Sharik
Sorry, that is not good enough. If it is the compliance department’s job to make sure the rules are not violated, then when they miss something you have to admit they failed. Period. They do not get a pass. Moreover, in the Ed Martin situation, go back and read some of the court transcripts and stories. There are too many red flags (i.e., kids having more money, traveling, and living a bit too well for college students) to say the compliance department had no way to know something did not look right.
I am sure compliance has a very difficult job, but you said above that BM should come out and say, “We have compliance officers that work extremely hard and who monitor the hours with microscopic precision. … We completely deny these allegations … There is no need for us to self-investigate when we already know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are in full compliance.” Steve Sharik
BM cannot make that statement because it is not true. Compliance officers, no matter how hard working or well-intentioned, are not perfect. They are human beings. They do not want to get Michigan into trouble. They get tired. They get busy. They are probably overworked. They can get co-opted by coaches or players. Simply saying that we have a compliance department and, therefore, there are no violations is a cop-out that no one other than a “love is blind” Michigan supporter would accept. BM needs to conduct an investigation.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:29 PM ^
You begin with:
"'You can't fault compliance officers for not seeing a booster giving a kid money in some back room off-campus.' Steve Sharik
Sorry, that is not good enough. If it is the compliance department’s job to make sure the rules are not violated, then when they miss something you have to admit they failed. Period. They do not get a pass."
Followed later by:
"Compliance officers, no matter how hard working or well-intentioned, are not perfect."
So, by this logic, compliance officers have to be perfect, and yet aren't perfect. Therefore, compliance officers can't do their jobs. Is this your assertion?
In between, you quote me saying that these officers use microscopic precision (which, btw, I was referring only to participation hours), and then you follow that by saying these officers aren't perfect. Please show me where I was saying that microscopic precision = perfection.
Sorry, but your point about compliance officers being required to catch all violations is laughable. If compliance officers not catching all violations means they are failures, then every compliance officer in history has failed to do his/her job.
Finally, just b/c compliance officers make mistakes doesn't mean that the Michigan Football team isn't in compliance with NCAA rules regarding participation hours. In fact, it is, and there is no problem with BM saying it, and you will hear him say it shortly (i.e., by tomorrow).
August 30th, 2009 at 6:41 PM ^
Please do not put words in my mouth. What I said was compliance officers are human and cannot be expected to be perfect. However, and apparently this is where we disagree, when they miss something you need to acknowledge that they missed something. If you just take the view that, oh, they never could have known that was going on and therefore they get a pass, well, that is pretty weak compliance.
As for what BM will say, I do not know. My guess is that he will support RR publicly, but I hope he undertakes an investigation. If he doesn't, he is not what I want in an AD.
August 30th, 2009 at 7:23 PM ^
...but does that necessarily mean they shouldn't have missed it? I think there was some failure on the part of the athletic dept. in the Ed Martin fiasco. I do NOT think there was failure in this current case.
In other words:
paying players = hard to know everything
participation hours on campus = easy to know everything
My main point in all this back-and-forth is this: the athletic department already knows, w/o a doubt, whether or not the football program is in compliance w/NCAA rules regarding participation hours.
Like Brian said, to be otherwise would be calling them idiots.
August 31st, 2009 at 2:11 AM ^
Statement from Athletic Director Bill Martin:
We are committed to following both the letter and the intent of the NCAA rules and we take any allegations of violations seriously. We believe we have been compliant with NCAA rules but nonetheless we have launched a full investigation of the allegations in today’s newspaper. We have already reached out to both the Big Ten and the NCAA and we will have more to say on this as soon as we have completed our assessment.
August 30, 2009
August 30th, 2009 at 3:43 PM ^
Bill Martin is kicking himself for not ponying up the extra couple millions for Les Miles.
Note, this is not a knock on Rodriguez, or pining for what could have been. But after 294827349827 million spent on new facilities, the RR transfer fiasco, the 3-9, and now this, oy vey that salary demand seems like a pittance.
August 30th, 2009 at 3:46 PM ^
Miles was very upset about leaks coming out of the Michigan Athletic Department. If it were not for the leaks, they probably would have reached an agreement. But Les got pissed off and held a news conference ... and that was that.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:01 PM ^
But my interpretation is different . . . Miles was reaching out to Martin even as he was blowing up at the press conference. Miles wanted the job badly, Martin didn't want to hire him, the rest was just theatrics.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:19 PM ^
Which is why it was a stunner when it did not happen. I do not know about your version, but that is not what I heard. I heard that Miles made a big deal over no leaks because he had the SEC championship game and a possible National Championship game coming up. He was promised no leaks and kept seeing things in the press. The Herbstreit comment on ESPN finally set him off. Maybe I am wrong, but that is what I was told.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:42 PM ^
If Miles really wanted the Michigan job, he wouldn't have signed an extension with LSU right then.
There are always leaks. It was practically confirmed that we'd hire Beilein 2-3 weeks in advance, while he was coaching WVU in the NIT. If a guy really wants the job, he won't care.
August 30th, 2009 at 3:50 PM ^
Do you honestly think that Miles wouldn't be doing the same exact thing as RR has been accused of doing if he had ended up at Michigan? Don't kid yourself. LSU has the "voluntary" practice program, too.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:31 PM ^
Bill Martin is kicking himself for not ponying up the extra couple millions for Les Miles.
Miles is known to have committed recruiting violations when he was here (which prompted Bo to take him off the recruiting trail for awhile), so I'm not sure he's the great alternative. Also, there are a ton of people in the athletic department (including our former coach) who hate Miles's guts.
August 30th, 2009 at 3:50 PM ^
The NCAA doesn't operate that way. Even with far more direct evidence, the NCAA has been dead silent on USC's alleged financial improprieties (Bush). The NCAA exists because flagship programs (such as Michigan) are cash cows for everyone else. For the NCAA to come down hard even as other programs push the rules the same way, we would have to be expendable. Right now, we are not expendable.
There have been expendable teams, however. For all the NCAA's inaction against USC football, I'm sure possible NCAA action prompted USC basketball, which is expendable as they are not a flagship in basketball, to unravel. Same with Michigan basketball. We were the same way.
So while I'm sure BM will investigate the matter as he does with all other matters and take the appropriate action and call out responsible parties (RR included if he did push too far), I don't think the NCAA will touch this. There are too many questions, and far too much to lose.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:03 PM ^
Not sure what direct evidence you have on the usc deal but a lack of direct evidence is what has delayed the investigations this long. All that direct evidence was locked away when Bush settled with that agent after going into the nfl. The only reason it was back in the news was because of the OJ Mayo findings. And the only way their football team gets dinged is if the "lack of institutional control" is dropped on the university.
I think its pretty laughable to disregard the accusations made in the freep articlces so quickly as some have. And even if all of it turns out to be nothing, your still left with current players on the team that they felt more comfortable going to a reporter than their own coaches to discuss these issues.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:17 PM ^
I find your interpretation laughable. I would not be surprised in the least if this current player does not exist. I do not put it beyond the Rosenberg to lie about the existence of an unnamed source on the team.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:25 PM ^
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ys-bushprobe&prov=yhoo&…
With Reggie Bush, we have names, location, exact dollar amounts and multiple sources.
Here, we have unnamed sources, unspecific locations, no exact time amounts and less than 10% of the team.
If you can't understand the difference you are blind.
August 30th, 2009 at 5:48 PM ^
The odd thing about the article you linked is that it very clearly states that Bush thought Carroll knew of his situation and was going to investigate himself.
USC had one player who was accepting benefits outside of the knowledge of the institution. I'm an SC alum and I will tell you I fully believe Bush to be guilty. I do not, however, believe that SC knew of the improprieties. Does that let them off the hook? Most certainly not. But unfortunately, nothing is going to come of the Bush situation for the reasons that Irish already mentioned.
The difference between what SC allegedly did and what UM allegedly did is that the violations in question are related to the program itself and not some outside source. I don't think either program is guilty because:
1) I like to give the benefit of the doubt
2) Neither coach is clinically retarded enough to risk it
There is a big difference between the two, but the difference is not limited to what is factually known about the Bush situation. I would be significantly more concerned if the situation were true for U of M than if it were true for SC. If the coaches were willfully breaking rules (again I doubt they did) I think that is a lot bigger deal than not being able to control and monitor every facet of every player's life, even if it did happen to be one of the greatest college players of all time.
August 30th, 2009 at 5:54 PM ^
I am not saying they're innocent and my personal opinion is the exact opposite. The NCAA does not have the power to force Ornstein to tell them anything, and with the out of court settlement Bush made with Ornstein he is prevented to some degree from doing so. Without Ornstein the NCAA has their hands tied.
With this situation, you have 2 reporters conducting interviews with "10 current or past players" plus their parents and the parents of other players who would not comment. If the NCAA came knocking, and with Rosenberg's "agenda" it would seem as though he would have no problem turning over what he had collected so far. As it took ESPN minutes to verify the story themselves, it would seem the NCAA wouldn't have a hard time getting the information they required to make a ruling.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:33 PM ^
Kentucky is royalty in college basketball and they got the death penalty in 1952-53. I am not comparing the situations, but you need a history lesson if you really believe the NCAA will not impose penalties on top programs.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:47 PM ^
I believe you're referring to the POINTS SHAVING SCANDAL. Our situation is tad different.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:05 PM ^
an implicit accusation that Bill Martin is either manifestly incompetent at running a big-time athletic department, willfully naive and turning a blind eye to impropriety, or entirely and knowingly complicit in rule-breaking skullduggery.
If I were him I'd take this very personally, but we'll see.
August 30th, 2009 at 5:19 PM ^
And I'd really be pissed off and feel disrespected if I was one of the compliance officers.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:42 PM ^
Everyone wants an immediate statement one way or the other from Bill, but they also want him to look into things and make sure we're not cheating...you can only have it one way. Either he takes his time and makes sure his statement doesn't make him look out of touch or he risks looking like a fool. Give the guy a few days.
August 30th, 2009 at 4:57 PM ^
is to step up to the microphone, after we smoke Western and with a pissy, annoyed look on his face say "Rich Rodriguez is the coach we wanted, he is the coach we're sticking with, and make no mistake- he's the coach of the future. There has been a change of culture within Schembechler Hall since his hiring, and I support and endorse Coach Rodriguez's efforts fully.
Go Blue. "
August 30th, 2009 at 4:59 PM ^
I'm pretty sure BM knows what RR has been doing the whole time.
August 30th, 2009 at 5:21 PM ^
Please don't say "Wolverine nation". Barf.
August 30th, 2009 at 5:51 PM ^
I agree. I speak for the masses when I say we all prefer "Maize and Blue Nation".
August 30th, 2009 at 5:53 PM ^
How about nothing "nation"? We're not the Red Sox. We don't need to have a SportsCenter approved nickname for the collective fanbase.
August 30th, 2009 at 5:54 PM ^
Give Me A Break.
August 30th, 2009 at 5:58 PM ^
I speak for nobody.
B) that was in jest.
Third, the chicken's almost ready to come off the grill.
D) I'm hammered
August 30th, 2009 at 5:57 PM ^
if fandoms as a whole were no longer referred to Nations. It's dumb and it's all because of Red Sox fans.