Big Ten Icons: Any More Wolverines?
The Big Ten Network is counting down to numbers 17 to 1 for the Big Ten Icons list. Any more Wolverines that have not been listed yet? I think for sure: Tom Harmon. Possibles: Rick Leach, Barry Larkin, or Red Berenson. Anybody else that you think deserves to be on the remaining list?
Judgemart
September 28th, 2010 at 5:23 PM ^
Possibly a swimmer. Tom Dolan? Eric Namesnik? (If Michael Phelps had actually competed for us, he'd be a lock.)
One longshot: Willie Heston. He scored 72 (!) career TDs while playing for the Point-a-Minute teams. He'd have won the Heisman if it had existed then.
September 29th, 2010 at 9:31 PM ^
The Catch was against a hated rival that had beaten us 4 years in a row.
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<br>Plus, for pure aesthetics, The Catch wins out.
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<br>It wasn't the last play of the game, but it was 4th and inches in the 4th quarter, which adds a gutsiness factor to it.
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September 29th, 2010 at 9:36 PM ^
I agree that it was a great play. But ask a random college football fan and he/she probably knows nothing about the Catch, whereas the Wangler-to-Carter play is pretty well-known. You can debate whether or not it was the best play, but it's probably our most famous.
September 28th, 2010 at 5:17 PM ^
May be on the list. Otherwise, that is probably it.
September 28th, 2010 at 5:51 PM ^
Gerald R. Ford. All American center in the 1930s. US President.
September 28th, 2010 at 5:18 PM ^
Is it just players? If not, Bo and Yost are in.
September 28th, 2010 at 5:21 PM ^
I'm pretty sure it's just athletes. The list would have to be really long if it included coaches as well.
September 28th, 2010 at 9:30 PM ^
So how does that explain Jack Nicklaus?
Goodnight everybody! You've been great!
September 28th, 2010 at 11:33 PM ^
The list would have to be really long if it included coaches as well.
I'm pretty sure the 'Top 50' list would remain the same length, whether coaches were included or not. ;)
September 28th, 2010 at 5:23 PM ^
Yost will be top 5
September 28th, 2010 at 5:29 PM ^
Am I the only one that has a problem with this list as it relates to Desmond and Charles?
I loved Anthony Carter but how can Desmond be ranked behind him? Maybe I'm just too young to really appreciate AC and put too much stock in Desmond because he was more of my "contemporary."
And how is Charles Woodson not higher than 20? Suzy Favor-Hamilton was obviously a great athlete, but its not like she won any Olympic medals or anything (see, e.g. Dolan). Woodson was the first defensive player to win the Heisman - the top player in arguably the most recognized of all the college sports. (Great, now I feel bad about knocking Favor-Hamilton for not winning a medal. Damn you, conscience!)
Oh, and while I'm on the warpath, where is Chris Webber? Is he automatically eliminated from consideration? At least put the Fab-Five in there as one entry. Sheesh!
September 28th, 2010 at 5:35 PM ^
They were both great. But Carter redefined the WR position at Michigan. The position was an afterthought in Bo's offense before AC arrived. (The story goes that during his recruitment, AC was concerned that we didn't throw to the receivers enough. Bo's response: "We'll throw it to you.")
AC totally destroyed all our old receiving records and set a bunch of Big Ten records. And he scored on probably the most famous play in school history.
AC's career receiving numbers: 161 rec., 3,076 yards (19.1 avg.), 37 TD
AC's career kickoff-return numbers: 63 ret., 1,606 yards (25.5 avg.)
AC's career punt-return numbers: 79 ret., 907 yards (11.5 avg.), 2 TD
He was Braylon and Breaston rolled into one. He is the reason why Bo suddenly stopped running the option 25 times a game in 1979. And he's why only wide receivers wear #1.
September 28th, 2010 at 5:38 PM ^
Your points are each well-taken. As I mentioned, I may be suffering from a case of "generational bias" here. For example, if you were to ask me, I would say that The Catch is the most famous play in Michigan history. You say to-mato, I say to-moto . . .
September 28th, 2010 at 5:44 PM ^
For the record, I'm 30 years old. Wangler-to-Carter happened a couple of months before I was born. You don't have to be old to appreciate history.
The Catch was a great play and I had the chance to see it, which makes it extra-special. But it was a play early in the fourth quarter. Wangler-to-Carter was a 45-yard TD on the last play of the game.
September 28th, 2010 at 6:00 PM ^
AC was the best wide receiver Michigan has had in my lifetime (I'm 37). I try to shy away from saying things like "xx was the best play in Michigan history" since I've only been watching Michigan football since the early 1980s, and that leaves out 100+ years of Michigan football. Since very few of us were around for that first century of Michigan football, we should be cautious in throwing around terms like "best in history."
For example, I saw another blogger refer to Michigan's offense as "the most prolific in history." More prolific than the Fielding Yost-coached 1901 team that went 11-0, outscoring its opponents 550 to zero?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1901_Michigan_Wolverines_football_team
If we are to talk about the most famous play in Michigan history, how about the 65-yard touchdown pass in the 1898 Michigan-Chicago game that led to our first conference championship and inspired Louis Elbel to pen "The Victors?"
Agree or disagree, my point is: let's avoid making sweeping comments about "the best XX in Michigan history" unless you can *really* back it up.
September 28th, 2010 at 11:32 PM ^
I don't know how you're defining "famous," because only the most hard core of hard-core fans are going to be familiar with the play you're referencing in the 1898 Chicago game.
The Wangler-Carter connection is probably the most famous (i.e. remembered) play in school history. (I should say, the most famous play that we made, since the Kordell Stewart Hail Mary is even more famous.) Many non-Michigan fans are familiar with it. It was used in a Pontiac TV commercial (complete with Ufer's call) a year or two ago. I don't know of any other play that compares. (I guess you could nominate the "Hello Heisman" return, but even then, it's really only the Heisman pose that people remember.)
September 29th, 2010 at 4:25 PM ^
I.e., that "famous" equals what people alive today remember most. But that goes against Wangler-to-Carter, since few people under 40 watched that play live. And this is kind of my point -- it's a shame that Michigan's rich history gets short shrift because no one is around to remember it. We've won 2-3 MNCs in the last 75 years, but won 8 MNCs in the 35 years prior. Surely some of those teams produced famous plays? And I haven't even brought up Tom Harmon.
Television has some impact on this, insofar as more people watch Michigan football on TV today than did 40 years ago. But that shouldn't bias our reflections of how dramatic the play was on the field. The Harvard-Yale has had many famous games and plays -- very few of them on TV, but many of them memorialized in books and articles.
September 28th, 2010 at 5:45 PM ^
was better than desmond. but desmond had better stats. i doubt Bo ever threw the ball 1st and goal inside the 5. Mo threw to desmond a lot in that situation. i used to complain because we had hoard and bunch who were automatic on short yardage.
September 28th, 2010 at 6:12 PM ^
September 28th, 2010 at 11:37 PM ^
Suzy Favor-Hamilton was obviously a great athlete, but its not like she won any Olympic medals or anything
If I understand correctly, only collegiate athletics are included. Woodson gets no credit for his time in the NFL, or else a player like Brady makes this list.
September 28th, 2010 at 5:32 PM ^
I think Bo and Gerald Ford(he was President) are possibilities.
September 28th, 2010 at 6:00 PM ^
September 28th, 2010 at 7:40 PM ^
Ford's a tough call. He was an All-American, but so were a lot of other guys. Football alone didn't make him an icon. His greatest claim to fame comes from what he did in politics. Should that be a criterion? I'm not sure.
September 28th, 2010 at 5:34 PM ^
As Emperor of the Universe I'm sure he will have something to say about this!
September 29th, 2010 at 9:46 AM ^
no Zoltan, either... =P
September 28th, 2010 at 5:43 PM ^
Not sure on how the BTN is defining icons (i.e. players/coaches/teams), but any true list should certainly include the Fab Five (collectively). Not sure any one player deserves the recognition, but as a unit, they defined (from their attitude to apparel) a generation.
September 28th, 2010 at 6:02 PM ^
September 28th, 2010 at 6:35 PM ^
Because according to the record books Chris Webber never played for Michigan, we never went to the Final Four (twice) and never won a game while he didn't play.
September 28th, 2010 at 6:52 PM ^
Take a closer look at the sanctions. Michigan never vacated any win until the Final Four of Webber's freshman year. So, according to the record books, yes, Webber DID play for Michigan. Until April of 1992.
September 28th, 2010 at 7:25 PM ^
All of Webber's stats have officially been vacated. However, we did not vacate the games we played until the 1992 Final Four - if that makes any sense (it apparently does to the NCAA).
September 28th, 2010 at 5:47 PM ^
if he qualifies...
September 28th, 2010 at 6:30 PM ^
He never swam for Michigan.
September 28th, 2010 at 5:52 PM ^
Per a quick visit to the BTN website, the heading on the Icon page suggests the list wil be compiled of the "Top 50 Student-Athletes in Big 10 History". Looks like this eliminates Bo and Yost from consideration. Red's still a possibility as he obviously played for the University.
September 28th, 2010 at 5:57 PM ^
I'm not caught up, but was AC already listed? I know Woodson was 20, but that's it. Confused on if AC was 18 or something like that ?
I think AC, Desmond should be on there, but obviously i'm biased.
I also think Harmon should be on there.
What about Ron Kramer? Didn't he excel in more than just 1 sport?
September 28th, 2010 at 6:04 PM ^
September 28th, 2010 at 6:59 PM ^
September 28th, 2010 at 7:13 PM ^
Favor-Hamilton makes sense in the top 20, and yes, above Woodson. I believe in another thread I quoted the Wikipedia article with her amazing list of accomplishments. On the national scene of collegiate athletics, she far outperformed Woodson.
September 28th, 2010 at 9:50 PM ^
That is quite an impressive list. I'll leave her at #19 and swap CW with that buckeye, Nicklaus. When was the last time 100,000+ showed up to watch him play golf?
September 29th, 2010 at 7:45 AM ^
Pretty sure millions upon millions of people have watched him on TV over the years.
September 28th, 2010 at 9:25 PM ^
It's a list of 50. Favor-Hamilton may not be as well-known as a guy like Woodson, but given that the Big Ten has named its female Athlete of the Year award for her (the male one is named for Jesse Owens), she kind of has to rank highly. This strongly suggests that the top 18 will all be men.
September 28th, 2010 at 6:34 PM ^
Jim Abbott?
September 28th, 2010 at 6:46 PM ^
Wolverines so far:
#36 Jim Abbott; #34 Desmond Howard, # 29 Cazzie Russell, #27 Glen Rice, #24 Anthony Carter, #20 Charles Woodson
How funny is it that Curt Warner is even on this list? He never played in the Big Ten, PSU didn't join until 11 years after he left!
September 28th, 2010 at 7:09 PM ^
One night in August, needing a quick football fix, I switched over to BTN, which was running "The Greatest Big Ten Games" series. The featured game was the 1989 Holiday Bowl between Penn St and BYU. Granted this was an interesting game, arguably great, but a Big Ten game? No. Penn St didn't even take the field against any Big ten team in 1989.
I just can't wait until Nebraska joins next year and the 1971 Nebraska - Oklahoma game (a classic) becomes one of the Big Ten's Greatest Games.
September 28th, 2010 at 6:47 PM ^
Jim Abbott's already listed, at # 36.
September 28th, 2010 at 7:15 PM ^
Oosterbaan will make the list. So will Harmon. After that, Dolan is probably our best bet.
September 28th, 2010 at 7:47 PM ^
Unfortunately I'm not sure if Oosterbaan's outstanding career at Michigan will draw enough recognition around the rest of the B10.
Go Blue !
September 28th, 2010 at 9:48 PM ^
My guess is that The Steiner Brothers will probably come in at #1 and #2.
September 28th, 2010 at 9:58 PM ^
is a lock, and deservedly so.
September 28th, 2010 at 10:35 PM ^
on this list. I have a strong feeling Jesse Owens is going to come in at #1.
September 29th, 2010 at 8:42 AM ^
I hate Ohio State, but I have nothing bad to say about Jesse Owens.