Uh... him and Lucien-South. Why are they not yet blue? I know, trust the coaches... but they need to keep riding the wave. JOTKA!
"Big Interest" from Kevin Dillman (2015 5-Star QB)
I've not heard that name and I can't find him. Also, where did you get your avatar? That is amazing!
It's Lucier-South, first name Keisean. An absolute stud DE from Orange County.
Doesn't OC Lutheran produce pretty good talent?
I just checked their schedule and they are undefeated headed into league play. I guess we will see how good they are when they face St john Bosco (Rivals High #5, Josh Rosen) on 10/18.
Their league schdule is actually really brutal. They have to play Servite (Rivals High #71) and Mater Dei (#34)
C'mon down! Er, up.
Someone get Tom Brady to deliver this guy's offer letter. Insta commit! 5 start QB? DO WANT
I hope he would start more than 5 games.
MGoBlog auf Deutsch.
Those 5 starts were wins over Ohio and one win in the National Championship Game?
And shouldn't you be bitter about 1999 then?
But wouldn't that be an insta NCAA violation?
government is shut down THERE ARE NO RULES!!!!!
Yes. Oh yes.
Seriously, is there a reason why he hasn't been offered yet? I know we have to trust the coaches, but...the 3rd best pro-style QB in the nation?
Has anyone looked at film on him yet? Is there any possible reason why we haven't offered other than an unfounded hope that Rosen suddenly decides he hates warm weather?
The knock is that he is a great athlete, but fairly unpolished as a QB.
So Devin Gardner 2.0? Have him and Wilton Speight duke it out. I will HAPPILY take the winner as our starter.
EDIT: Also, thank you for the plausible explanation for his non-offer.
Devin Gardner 2.0 in the 2015 is Sheriron Jones.
a Junior in high school is an "unpolished QB"? He'll never amount to anything, move along.
So is Devin Gardner, the difference is this kid is only a junior in HS.
SOMEBODY GET THIS KID ON THE PHONE NOW!
This seems like a great year to take a guy like that. In both 2013 and 2014, we got our plan A, Borges approved pro-style QB. Why not take a chance on a guy like this with huge upside? Worst case scenario you've got a 5 star athlete that loves Michigan. I'm sure we could find a use for him somewhere even if he doesn't pan out as a QB.
Exactly. The kid is a 5 star who is seriously interested in Michigan. I don't care if he is listed as a punter, we will gladly accept him.
>> "The knock is that he is a great athlete, but fairly unpolished as a QB."
Did you see what Desmond Howard said on "Gameday" this past week? He said any time a QB is described primarily as a "great athlete" it's a red flag. He went on to say the job of a QB is first to be a great quarterback.
There was some disagreement from others on the panel about that, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
That's not to say athleticism plays no role, of course. A great QB with great athleticism is a plus, no doubt. (Imagine Payton Manning with RGIII's legs.) It's just that a QB can't be just a great athlete ... there's a lot of examples of how that takes a team only so far.
So the question with all these HS QBs that are "great athletes" is whether they can grow into being a great QB as well. That's probably one of those intuitive things coaches do.
1. Desmond played with Elvis Grbac. Of course he doesn't think a QB should be a great athlete.
2. Desmond works for ESPN. His job is to say STRONG TAKES that are controversial and get people to respond to them.
I could not agree less with "the athletic QB, even when accurate and a good decision maker, seems to be a flash in the pan" statement. Michigan was tormented for decades (from Johnnie Johnson to Donovan McNabb to Troy Smith to etc etc) by passers who could also beat you with their feet. The offensive systems may change based on what defenses prepare for, but having the ability to turn a 3rd and 8 into a first down on your own, even when everyone is covered, is gold. Heck, look at Devin against UConn -- he was having major accuracy/confidence issues, but his feet allowed the offense to still make (at least some) progress.
A QB doesn't have to be as fast/run-happy as Denard, but being a rocket armed statue is definitely only one way to go.
....consider Vince Young to be a great QB? Cam Newton? Michael Vick? Not saying that all 5 star prospects labeled as an "athlete" will measure up to these guys.... but I am not automatically seeing a red flag.
- I'm not saying athleticism is a detriment
- I'm not saying an athletic quarterback is a bad thing
- I'm not saying a statue QB is always superior
- I'm not saying the recruit mentioned in the OP is not a good QB
I am saying that a QB whose primary attribute is athleticism will not be as effective as a QB with good-enough athleticism and good game decision skills.
That was Desmond Howard's point. First and foremost a QB has to be a good QB, and being a good QB is more than just scrambling out of the pocket or keeping on a read option and going to the endzone.
Who would you rather have, Michael Vick or Tom Brady? Cam Newton or Andrew Luck?
They were undeniably great college QBs and that's what we are talking about here. The ability a QB shows in the NFL is irrelevant.
He wants someone that can make all the throws and reads first.
In college, I would much, MUCH rather have Vick and Newton. I think those guys pretty clearly had more success in college than Brady and Luck. Who cares if our guys translate slightly better in the NFL?
That's a fair point.
The key there is the quality of the defenses the athletic QB faces. In college the average quality is spread out; in the NFL it gets much more concentrated.
So in college the athleticism attribute may well be of higher weight than the pure QB attributes. The better a defense the athletic QB faces, the less that advantage becomes. Alabama and LSU showed a fair amount of skill shutting down athletic QBs, including Denard Robinson.
That's why, I think, those athletic QBs see lesser production in the pros ... the defenses are simply that much better overall. That doesn't mean they can't be successful (see RGIII his first year; see Colin Kaepernick; see Russell Wilson). It does mean the game management skills become more important. Couple the two and it's powerful. Russell Wilson seems to be positioning himself as a very smart and very mobile QB. The big question is whether RGIII is really a half-step slower and whether he can now get better at the QB decisions part of the game.
To your point -- in college, sure ... take an athletic QB who's good enough at the passing to keep defenses on their heels.
I worry about the Michigan - OSU game because it looks like Braxton Miller is really becoming a QB with both athleticism and good game management presence. Devin Gardner has all the tools to get there himself. Question is, will he? We'll see.
.... isn't as easy to answer as you are implying. Young and Newton have rings... and Vick was 1 quarter from one. I was at the 2000 Sugar Bowl. Vick single handedly kept the Hokies in it for the majority of the game. I'd be happy with any of the three on our team... even though they might not be considered great QBs in the traditional sense.
happy = f-ing thrilled
For stating a plausible explanation. You don't even state whether you agree with it or not. You just say why some have some reservations, with no value judgment. Killing the messenger here guys.
Because there's a strong tendency on this site to reflexive contrarianism.
I totally disagree with that, though I'm not sure what you said.
I love seeing things like "reflexive contrarianism" on a sports blog.
Yeah, my "syllables per word" rating there is pretty good, huh? :-)
He said he is leaning to agree with Howard's assessment that a kid labeled as a great alleys should raise some eyebrows. I disagree and presented my case. Is this board really to a point where a civil debate gets criticized? Maybe we aren't being sarcastic enough for your liking?
"athlete." Should know better than to not double check my swiping
Where've you been hanging out, iPhone?
...and fingers too big for trying to type on a phone screen.
"He said he is leaning to agree with Howard's assessment that a kid labeled as a great athlete should raise some eyebrows"
Well, that's not quite what Howard said, and it's not what I presented Howard as saying.
Howard's point -- and I used this word in my paraphrase of him -- was that when a quarterback is primarily known as an athlete, it's a red flag. I did not emphasize "primarily" in my original post, but perhaps I should have.
It makes a difference. All the chatter above about Vince Young and Michael Vick is because those posters are thinking the point being made is a QB who is also athletic. That's not the point. Michael Vick and Vince Young were both athletic and good QBs.
So if we leave proper names out of this -- since it serves as a distraction, apparently -- the question is better phased like this: Who would you rather have -- a really athletic kid who runs around a lot and makes bad decisions? Or a less athletic kid who seems to be pretty good at reading defenses and making decisions?
That's Howard's point. The primary attribute of a QB is first to be a good QB.
Of course one would want both if one could get both. Of course.
But if a recruit is a great athlete but very raw and very mistake-prone at the QB position, then there's a concern. Because a QB has to first and foremost be the QB and lead the offense. If they can't do that it's a problem.
It's like a team whose QB leads the team in rushing. Good thing or bad thing? I'd argue a bad thing. Not because the yards are bad, but because it's an indication of an improper balance in the team's offense. Howard's point, and I tend to agree in principle, is that a QB that is athletic but not good at the QB role tends to rely too much on his athleticism, which is great when it works, but it can be a problem when it fails to work. Mississippi State had that figured out in the bowl game against Michigan a few years back.
is a 4/5 star QB, not some 3 star flyer. I'm not so certain that the services give him that status if he is seen as some mistake prone project.
And let's forget that Vick, Young, and Newton were succesful in college because that's not really where I was going. In fact Dillman is listed as Pro-Style so is probably nothing like them. I bring them into the conversation because they were all high rated prospects out of high school who were likely rated as "great athletes." Not all QBs described this way are going to produce at the next level, but I think that there is a pretty good argument that you shouldn't get overly pessimistic about the "great athlete" label.
I was commenting on this post-
The knock is that he is a great athlete, but fairly unpolished as a QB.
Which simply puts out why some think he might not be offereed aand makes no value judgment on it. The Desmond post does make an value judgment/impllicit ageement, and is certainly up for debate.
They're probably still evaluating him, the same goes for Brady White. The coaches will offer when they feel he deserves to be offered. Lucien-Smith on the other hand seems like a no brainer to offer, but it looks like the coaches are holding that spot for Cornell only at the moment.
Those guys (KLS and Cornell) are so close as prospects that I say offer both and take the first one who commits. Putting all your eggs in one basket is fine if that basket is way better than your other options, but in this case it's a toss up.
I didn't get the impression he was a slam-dunk as a QB. I saw him described as an excellent athlete playing QB. 247 mentioned that he might not even be the coaches top priority in 2015.
I understand they want to be careful on QB offers and really take their time. But to me this seems like a no brainer. A 5-star QB from Cali who wants to play in a pro style and is also mobile. Not to mention he wants a Michigan offer bad. If he's a bit unpolished thats fine, with Morris and Speight ahead of him no one is asking him to come in and play right away. I haven't watched his highlights, but he is still a 5 star to 247 and a high 4 star to ESPN so how unpolished can he be?
So glad our coaching staff has a better thought process than "ZOMG! 247 gave him 5 stars and he said he likes us! Forget everyone else - let's wrap him up NOW!!"
You know, like "hmm...let's get some film on this guy so we can decide what we think."
Early commentary from one of the Scout guys is that he's the #5 rated QB - in California.
Take it easy there champ. No need to get all excited.
I'm not critizing the staff or claiming to know more than them. I said "to me". I know my opinion doesn't matter to the staff. But this is a message board and an appropriate place to share opinions.
And being the 5th QB in California isn't knock on him considering the other 4 are all rated as 5 stars and 4 stars as well.
So you disregard 247's opinion of him, but then use Scout's to show he's not that great. Hmmm.
That's not what he did. He simply said that since other services don't agree with 247, the kid might not be the slam dunk everyone is suggesting.
Not arguing your point. I just want to reiterate that there are 5 QB's in Cali in this class that are all considered 4/5 stars. So citing him being the "5th QB - in California" isn't exactly a knock on him.
... is super creepy. Like, pencil-mustache creepy.
Dillman is originally from Sweden, so hypothetically, we could have two players from Europe in our 2015 class (him and Froholdt). I feel like that would have to be a first.
I think Hoke has changed the tide on the rivalry. Hell people in Scandinavia are starting to believe him. Never in a million years I would have thought that. Selling Michigan jerseys is a good start.
There is a 100% chance that there is a black metal band in Scandinavia with the name that either is or translates to "hell people."
And they believe in Hoke.
upvote you so hard
Plucking a 5-star QB out of California would be pretty stellar. Especially one that's in USC/UCLA territory.
I loved him in Heaven Help Us
Scout lists him as the #3 prostyle qb but ESPN says he is the #1 dual threat guy. Scout has him at #6 qb. I'm down for having him here with a couple of years under Morris.
You know, for me I have been pretty open about questioning our offensive coaching staff in various ways the past two years but one place I don't question anyone on staff is in their recruiting. I mean, to me this seems like a no-brainer but this coaching staff has proven they know the business of recruiting so even though I think they should be offering this guy and L-S I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully they come through with offers for both guys soon, but if not I can't bring myself to questions this staff where recruiting is concerned. Hopefully in the end they both go Blue.
Here are some of his highlights from the last season. Could not find much from this current one save for a video of Dillman taking the ball himself for a TD on a goal line play:
In response to why we haven't offered him yet, just look at the tape.
He's obviously an athlete, and it's awesome that he plays both ways and lines-up at WR. Seems like the worst-case scenario is that he becomes a TE.
That said, there isn't much passing in this reel, and his motion is a little funky. I'd want to know much more before I offered him.
To me, the problem with that logic is that our one offer has expressed ZERO interest in leaving California, let alone coming to Michigan. Wilton Speight was an under-the-radar guy who jumped at his offer, while Rosen just doesn't care.
It seems like Dillman is more like Speight than Rosen, with the difference being he is not under-the-radar. If he is willing to go all out for us in talent-rich California, what's the downside from a recruiting standpoint?
The downside is they might want another kid instead. It is pretty clear that the coaches are still evaluating the QBs for the 2015 class.
The coaches are in constant contact with Kyle Kearns as well so there is a chance that he get offered first.
The downside to taking him would be if the coaches decide that he's not as good as 247 seems to think he is.
Stop making so much damn sense in this thread, will ya?!?!
I'm holding out for a 6-Star. Limited room in this class, people!
don't give a crap and are simply dropping the ball on this. Damn their eyes.
this blunt but but do your effin' job as a QB coach and take the two developmental years your QB depth offers and coach the kid up. From now he still has 4-5 years before he has to see the field. If it's only a question of being polished or not then that's a lame excuse because you aren't going to ask him to come in a take over the reins day one. I could be wrong but even with average throwing skills, elite athlete QBs can lead you to many wins...
>> but even with average throwing skills, elite athlete QBs can lead you to many wins
I'm no QB coach, but it seems to me throwing skills are secondary to good decision management skills. If a QB has great legs, an average arm, but he tends to make very few mistakes ... that's gold. Mistakes hurt. Mistakes at critical points in the game kill.
Bet you can win a lot with those too.
The point being is if you think someone else is better should you offer another guy before you even have a chance at getting him and close your QB recruiting? They've offered a total of one guy. Untill they've offereed a bunch more it's not strange that Dillman hasn't gotten an offer yet. They're probably assessing who they want most as their 2nd choice right now and not just offering to the first guy who will say yes.
The coaches may be looking at tape and deciding whether they want to offer him primarily as a QB or WR. From what I understand, they would want to decide where a recruit would fit in the class before making the offer, in large part to avoid misleading him.
why Hoke has not offerred him. I also noted that RRod has offerred him, so I guess that he has some legs too.
He's a perfect fit for RR with good wheels, a quick release, a strong arm, and experience with the zone read. He's also a pretty perfect fit for us as I don't see the presumed rawness in his film as a sophomore. Malzone is still my #1 guy... but I'd take both.
on here remember Ken Sollem?
I've been propagating this kid for months now. He is tops on my wish list for 2015. Glad there is finally some buzz generated. I needed a mid-day pick-me-up.
I will start with that. Saying Vince Young or Tim Tebow were not great college QB's because of thier NFL production is not fair. They both were all americans and won national championships I would say that is a much better yard stick to measure a QB's college football skills.
Dilman has huge upside, he is kinda of Devin 2.0. I think there are still some issues around his immigration status, notwithstanding the coaches being ultra selective with their QB offers. He's a beast, Want!
Assuming Rosen isn't an option, Brady White is the top kid on my list.
Just me or is this kid a spitting image of Jason Street?
I can back that up
I thought he was a major long shot? Or am I thinking of a different Cali QB?
You're probably thinking of Rosen. We're looking at four (or more) 2015 QBs from CA.
How about we just offer both Dillman and White and ask if they are willing to be fused together. Then we get athletic QB who hits receivers in stride all the time.
Not impressed w/ his film at QB. I agree with Desmond, you need to be a GREAT quarterback first and foremost. I think we have all seen what happens when you've got electric athletes behind center; turnovers, turnovers, and more turnovers. Would like to see this young man in the class - but not at QB. Big, strong, hybrid athlete could be used elsewhere.
He made it very clear he has no interest and is staying in California. Kid sounds solid and would hopefully try to recruit other top recruits , like Morris and Speight. I'm sure this kids desire for an offer will be noticed by the staff. 5 Star QB here we come.
I'd be perfectly happy if every other Michigan quarterback were Denard, faults, losses, and all, he was damn fun to watch....even in basketball season!
Just looking at the film, I'm surprised that Dillman is so highly rated as a pro-style QB. On the highlight reel, fewer than half the clips are of him passing and most of those are just him hitting guys within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage-- most of them right up the middle.
Overall, there are some great clips as he's obviously a great athlete, but in terms of his passing ability, his film doesn't look as impressive as what you usually see from a top QB prospect-- much less a 5-star guy ranked as the #3 pro-style QB in the country. Did he do great on the camp circuit?
Also, why is considered a pro-style guy? Just because he plays under center? He would definitely seem to be a better fit as a dual-threat guy given his running ability.
I agree his highlight reel doesn't look all that impressive. But there has to be some reason he is so highly rated. We all agree that rankings aren't always the whole story but there has been several studies done on this site showing the highly ranked guys are usually pretty good. Take a look at his rankings:
ESPN: 4 Star – 84 rating – 1st Dual Threat QB – 28th Overall in Jr. 300
RIVALS: 4 Star – 5.9 rating – 250 Watchlist
SCOUT: 4 Star – 6th QB – 124th Overall in Scout 300
24/7: 5 Star – 98 rating – 3rd Pro QB – 13th Overall in Top247
Its not often that all 4 sites are high on someone who is not good.
Add in offers from: Arizona, ASU, Arkansas, Cal, Clemson, Florida State, Louisville, Nebraska, Ole Miss, Tennessee, UCLA and Washington. Thats pretty impressive. I know there are quite a few of spread schools here but schools like Clemson, FSU and Louisville are pass heavy.