Big East to essentially force Notre Dame into Big Ten?
http://espn.go.com/blog/bigeast/post/_/id/9387/coaches-want-notre-dame-ultimatum
Summary:
The Big East coaches want to have an ultimatum given to Notre Dame about either joining the conference for football or getting out entirely. Because Notre Dame won't join the Big East for football, it could make them join the Big Ten. The Big East hopes that would satisfy the BIg Ten's expansion dreams and not gut the Big East out of existence.
Pretty interesting stuff. But in reality, I just basically want this whole expansion crap to be over and for September to roll around already!
This is exactly what I have wanted the Big Ten to do to ND for a long time. No more cherry-picking a conference in a deal which is in ND's best interest but doesn't really help the conference any. ND's one-sided relationships with conferences need to be ended in favor of win-win situations. In the Big East, it's even worse: ND gets to take advantage of their geography to recruit basketball players from their territory, but doesn't give them their only program that is worth a shit, the football program.
Either you are all in or you are out the door. Sounds like the correct move to me.
It may have a few years ago, and I agree that the Big Ten schools (MSU/Purdue/UM) should have told the Domers no more milk for free, you gotta buy the whole cow.
However, since the Expansions Gods have been awakened, I don't think a 1 team sacrifice will satisfy.
This is going to end just like the time I gave Angelina Jolie the ultimatum... "Hey, Ang, it's either me or Brad."
I haven't felt the touch of her warm body since that day.
billy bob thornton is that you?
that it's her brother.
Interesting move. I hope it pushes Notre Dame one way or the other, but we'll see.
I don't think just pushing Notre Dame into the Big Ten is gonna stop the Big Ten from considering adding more than 1 team however. Still a lose-lose for the Big East.
is there a scenario where ND ends up joining conference USA? i like that one the best.
The more teams the big ten adds the more likely ND could be one of them. The article says that they have been wanting to offer that ultimatum for 2 years, the likelihood of that happening now is probably worse than Edsal's 2 years ago.
The BigTen will do whatever is in their best interest not the BigEast's. ND being shoved out of the big east and into the BigTen is no guarantee that the BigTen is satisfied and if it were to happen; I very much doubt ND would go to the BigTen by themselves. If they want ND to fully integrate into the BigEast they won't be able to do it by losing 1-3 teams to the BigTen in the process. Its not the BigEast vs ND in these expansion discussions, ND is doing what they can to keep the BigEast intact as well. Like its said in the article the BigEast is not hurting by ND being independent, they would not get the same bowl selections without ND.
Especially if Syracuse, Pitt and Rutgers don't commit to staying, ND isn't joining a conference that feels a lot more like conference USA than a BCS conference. Right now if ND is joining a conference it's the B10. I guess my question to ND fans is does the threat of the Big Ten expansion watering down the Big East even further give ND any extra motivation to join? Is the prospect of a super sized B10 a threat to ND? Not exactly sure why people think this forces ND's hand, except for the idea that if ND wants to join this is probably their last chance.
no, it doesn't mean much directly, but indirectly it could have some influence. Not enough to change anything imo.
Like its said in the article the BigEast is not hurting by ND being independent, they would not get the same bowl selections without ND.
I don't understand that at all. ND isn't a part of the Big East conference for football, what difference does ND make for their bowl selections?
Pretty much all of the Big East's bowl agreements allow the bowl to pick Notre Dame instead of one of a Big East teams x times during the duration of the agreement.
right, also bowl selectors wouldn't be as interested in seeding a BigEast team without the chance of ND replacing them.
Did not know that. I learn something new everday here, er, usually.
What the Big 10 and Big East have done independently to persuade ND to join their conferences, the combined conference effort is more likely to work. If ND is turned off by the Big 10's efforts, then they will join the Big East, presumably after we take some of the Big East teams. If ND joins the Big 10, then the Big east will get to keep a team that they probably would otherwise have lost. I don't see Mizzou or Nebraska being out of the picture if ND do join us, so it would be one of the Big east teams.
There will be a domino effect after Big 10 expands, so all the conferences that are affected will likely work with the Big 10 or other conferences to get more teams to join, and that inlcudes ND naturally. If Big 10 and Big East fail in getting ND to join and exile ND in the process schedule-wise, ND could be forced to join the Big 12 just to be able to play teams in all other sports. I just don't see any possible way that ND will retain football independence after the super conferences are formed. The BCS shouldn't even continue the stipulation they have with ND too.
I've been of the opinion since day 1 that this whole expansion drama is just a push to get ND to join the Big Ten. All of the 14-team, 16-team, etc. is just a smokescreen that the Big Ten can use to give ND an ultimatum: now or never.
I completely agree. There's a reason these 3-5 team expansion talks always float Big East teams. The explanation has always been that we're going after the New York TV market but I really think that's unlikely--as has been discussed frequently here, Rutgers isn't going to pull it in and even a few more teams are unlikely to help.
The biggest win for the Big Ten is to grab Notre Dame. It boosts Big Ten football dramatically plus Big Ten academics and doesn't hurt basketball or other sports. ND has a national television audience who will now want to get BTN. It doesn't make the conference unwieldy. It really seems to be the perfect scenario from the Big Ten's perspective and the best way to get Notre Dame to join was to get the Big East to push them out. I have the feeling that Jim Delaney is talking with some Big East athletic directors and being pretty blunt that, if we don't get ND, we're interested in expanding into the New York market and it just so happens that it might tear the Big East apart.
I've said the same thing for a while now.
It seems like a shrewd move from Big East, because:
- ND joins Big East making other Big East teams less likely to leave now that they are "strengthened" by ND (and, of course, then Big East gets ND $$$).
- ND joins Big Ten in which case Big East looses little and, perhaps, prevents Big Ten from raiding Big East of 2-3 other teams.
Of course, ND could say "no" to both, but then Big East is in the same position essentially that they are today.
That's the beauty of our little scheme, though: if we get the Big East to seriously issue the ultimatum, #2 is by far the best option remaining.
#1 is almost certainly not going to happen--ND doesn't really get anything by joining the Big East and probably loses a lot of prestige and a lot of money (remember, they'd have to share TV revenue--even in the Big Twelve where the sharing isn't very even, there's no way sharing with the Big East doesn't hurt them).
ND could say no to both, but that's hard to do because their non-revenue sports and even basketball need someone to play; independent football is plausible because there are only 12 games and you can sell a lot of tickets by scheduling a game with ND. Even with basketball, there are too many games and not nearly the incentive for playing ND to be able to schedule an entire season of games. Other sports are even worse because you don't want to travel that much or you're just giving up lots of money for it, but you won't be able to schedule as many games with nearby Big 10/12/East teams as you would if you were actually in the conference.
If the Big East makes the ultimatum, the only good option is #2. Yes, it hurts ND's pride to no longer be independent in football, but that's about the only downside. ND makes more money as a Big Ten team and is benefitted academically as well. If the Big East makes this ultimatum, they pretty much know they're going to lose ND. But if by some miracle ND joins the Big East, they've got it made and, if ND leaves and joins the Big Ten, at least the Big East still exists, which is better than losing your best 2-3 teams and falling apart as a conference with poor prospects for other teams to add to make a new one.
The Big East has very little to lose right now. If they do nothing they're dead within five years, so why not take a gamble? But I think the Big Ten is more attractive to a school like Pitt or Rutgers than the Big East even with Notre Dame as a member. The Big Ten Network was a real game-changer.
"We don't need Notre Dame. They need us more than we need them."
The man was a genius.
Yes. 1000 times Yes!
I thought ND and the Big East had an understanding: just friends with benefits. ND isn't ready for a committed relationship, and the Big East knows this is the only way they get a girl who's way out of their league.
Anyway, the moment the Big East presses for a relationship, Our Lady is outta there, and knowing her, she probably still wouldn't walk down the aisle with Big Ten yet -- just call the ACC or something and see if they wanna "have coffee" -- no strings attached.
I think they do know that if they push ND to decide, ND almost certainly walks away. That could be a positive for the Big East, though--not compared to where they are now, but compared to a world where ND doesn't join the Big Ten and the Big East is destroyed because we steal several top teams.
In fact, if the Big Ten is serious about getting several Big East teams, ND joining the Big East may not be enough to save Big East even so, so it wouldn't surprise me if the best thing for the Big East is to kick ND out and over to the Big Ten.
They either need to join the Big East or the Big Ten. I'm sick of hearing about them all the time.
There is a theory that ND is demanding Rutgers as a condition of joining. The reason being that while Rutgers alone can't truly deliver the New York metropolitan area, ND can. They have a lot of clout, precisely because of their huge fan base in the Northeast. It's why NBC gives them that sweet deal. With ND, BTN instantly goes from the sports tier to basic cable in and around New York. The games at Rutgers (think Meadowlands Stadium and its 82,500 capacity) become huge fundraising events for ND.
April 30th, 2010 at 12:26 AM ^
While caught in the headlights of the Big Ten expansion, The Big East Conference and ND find themselves scrambling for answers. The Big East Conference seems willing to force ND's hand in an effort to save their own conference.
The independance that once made ND great may become its own demise. The Hand has been held out for ND to join the BIG Ten Conference. While it seems that ND is struggling with this decision, others it seems are now offering ultimatums.
April 30th, 2010 at 11:46 AM ^
DePaul
Villanova
Marquette
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Georgetown
Providence
If Notre Dame wants to remain an independent in football, the consideration of their other sports is not going to be an issue.