spoiler alert: i linked this
Bielema thinks Meyer is a dirty recruiter
Move on meat head....Meyer is one of the best in the business and he stole a local kid from you.
Beilema's a turd.
The main thing I found interesting in this article was that Bielema knew what the word "cognizant" means.
Well that didn't take very long.
whats your definition of "dirty"? I think every coach is a little dirty to some extent. I dont like Meyer but I cant be butt hurt over his style. After all, the kids have to make the choice.
We do things the right way in the B1G. Like dropping 83 on Indiana--that takes class, bro.
Good point. And Urban has big shoes to fill in the class department. I remember 3 seasons ago when Tressel ran a fake punt on Northwestern.... up by 20 in the mid-fourth quarter
We OSU fans still have no clue what NW did to piss Tress off, but they were the only team he would ever run the score up on. He had bigger margin of victory against NW than he did against most MAC schools. They must have rejected him on prom night in high school or something.
The NW stuff is so funny. I have to agree, The Vest could have run up the score on a lot of teams, including Michigan, the last few years, but almost never did. NW is a funny school to hate on.
That was the last Northwestern victory over Ohio State (33-27) and their only victory over Tressel. The scores before 2004 were reasonably close (38-20, 27-16, 20-0) but afterwards the closest game was 45-10.
Randy Walker was still alive then so we (probably) can't even blame Fitzgerald.
The Wiconsin special teams player who tried to injure Steve Breaston's knee - right in front of Bielema, IIRC - who wasn't suspended. Bielema didn't even acknowledge that it happened.
Players pull this ugly shit all the time, on every team.
It's how the coach responds to it afterwards, and whether the same player is doing the same stuff again while still with the team that I really look at. Sadly, and this goes for some past Michigan coaches as well, I am usually disappointed by the coaches' reactions.'
In this case Kamoku was just a special teams guy who never really was known for anything like this before. Their next game was Indiana, and he played. Bielema said he "handled it internally," which is coach speak for he ran extra laps. That same coachspeak has been used to handle dirty plays by confirmed saints (Carr and Bo), by former saints (JoePa), by accused dickholes (Rodriguez) and by a confirmed terrible human being (Dantonio). Bielema's bad handling of this does not alone disqualify him from speaking about class, unless being a college football coach in and of itself disqualifies you from this.
I don't think Bielema is talking about losing an Ohio kid to an Ohio school here. I think he's hinting at and overblowing stories that have been circulating without any kind of proof the past few months about Meyer's recruiting tactics.
Say what you want about "sour grapes" and him being a "meathead", but Bielema was also the only b10 coach to publically call out Tressel for being a cheater, while Hoke was avoiding the question and Mark D was calling him a "tragic hero".
Bielema might be the only shot we have at a coach telling the truth publicly.
especially true with Joe Pa's death. He'd been the last bastion of truth telling at all costs in the B1G coaching ranks.
The sour grapes over losing the one kid is dumb. If you're going to call Meyer out, call him out for taking 25+ when he only had room for 23. Then pruning his roster for violation of team rules *wink wink*.
Bilema is claiming that Meyer did. It may be about Dodson, but it may also be something else (I'm thinking of when Meyer offered hoes to Denard at UF).
but I don't disagree with anything he said in that article. Sad thing is, which I think we all saw with the recent weak penalties on OSU, is that OSU gets preferential treatment. So no one is going to crack down on OSU or Meyer for any illegal recruiting tactics. All we have to do is show him the spread option doesn't work in the Big Ten and recruits will stay away.
This quote is telling:
"[The agreement] has been between the coaches," Narduzzi said. "Jim Tressel and Mark Dantonio would never call or talk to each other’s commitments"
I would have to say that's because Ohio didn't want a bunch of 2 and 3 star players and could get anyone they wanted
Who of MSU's recruits over the last several years would OSU have wanted? Gholston and Thomas, I suppose, but those guys were always MSU all the way...Basically, Dantonio had a former colleague and benefactor at OSU, and now he doesn't.
...Basically, Dantonio had a former colleague and benefactor at OSU, and now he doesn't
Which is hilarious to watch play out on the Message boards. All the Sparties on ESPN are acting like they're a great program and that OSU had better watch out....whereas the Bucknuts there are just like "Who are you guys again?"
This year OSU snake oiled MSU's top commit, SeVon Pittman. So I think that's what he's probably referring to with that quote.
when the kid "committed" to MSU only to hold a spot when Michigan said no?
Regardless of the truth, and what everyone else knows about Pittman's committment, MSU felt Meyer poached a recruit.
The greater point, though, is that the former "gentlemen's agreement" involved Tressel not calling the 1% of MSU commits that he might have wanted and MSU not calling the OSU commits that they could never have convinced to drop the Buckeyes for a chance to play in East Lansing.
I bet it included the Vest helping Dantonio get recruits that weren't quite Ohio material rather than see them go to UM.
MSU's Narduzzi is just a little too self-interested for my tastes, though.
Dantonio is a Tressel protege; of course they aren't going to poach each others recruits.
... but it's the other way." /Marlo'd
And I want my <
>corners<> recruits. /Avon Barksdale'd
"The battling is here to stay, on the field and off. Meyer brings an SEC raid-everyone's-commit-cupboards mentality. Hoke brings an old-school devotion to trench warfare. And Dantonio remains an unflinching fighter. He was especially irritated by the Buckeyes' poaching of one-time top Spartan commit Se'Von Pittman, something his mentor, Jim Tressel, wouldn't have done.
"They've got a new coach, and it's different," Dantonio said. "I would say it's pretty unethical, in the end."
I hate the fact that I find myself agreeing with something Dantonio said, but it's true. Meyer and OSU fit together perfectly. The fan base that still thinks Tressel was robbed can now turn their attention to their new Cheater-in-Chief and cheer him on.
It isn't unethical at all to recruit a verbally committed player. Especially when you are a new coach and haven't had the opportunity to offer or recruit anyone. What else are you going to do? It isn't like he recruited these players, lost the recruiting battle and kept recruiting them. He came in fresh; he's allowed to give one good shot at already committed players.
If he is using unethical tactics, that is another issue. But the fact of a new coach contacting committed players is perfectly reasonable.
I don't understand the outrage over Meyer poaching guys when we've done the same exact thing...I mean maybe MSU is pissed off because nobody has ever wanted their recruits before now but there is no "code"
I'm not outraged. I wouldn't expect anything less from UM, but I do think it's in bad form. It's one thing to vy for recuits before they've committed. Or for a commit to change his mind and contact another university. But I think raiding another program's cupboard, promising all sorts of things and talking bad about the other program is below the standard we should expect. I know it happens all the time (didn't we just turn Dennis Norfleet?) but I still expect better.
And if he switches, he obviously didn't really want to go to the place he committed to. And I think you're taking a step saying you're recruiting guys who have committed to saying it involves promising them things or talking bad about the other program. I doubt with Norfleet it required any promises or bad mouthing Cinncy to get him to want to come here. if they decide they want to come here, isn't that what's in the best interest of the student? What we're always saying when someone pledges somewhere else? "Hey, don't knock a kid for doing what's best for him". He can do it on his own, but he may never know if he isn't pursued and exposed to it. (Like Kalis).
I don't have any problem with Meyer going after recruits, even if they're ours (and yes, he's doing it). To have a different mindset is to ignore that possibility and chance losing guys at the last minute. BB seems to be saying that Meyer was doing something else considered "dirty/illegal"...which I don't doubt much either. THAT I do have a problem with, and if he knows something, he should come out with it instead of throwing out nebulous accusations. You play to the bell, you recruit to the bell. If a kid doesn't want to be swayed by you, he won't. All 25 of our guys at the bell stayed.
Everyone and their mother knew that Pittman was an extremely soft verbal, waiting to jump ship the second he received an OSU offer.
He was verbally committed to UCinn. We swooped in and stole him in the 11th hour. Hoke dirty ??
No way -- he wanted Michigan as much as Pittman wanted OSU. If anything, our timing was waaay worse than Ohio's -- no chance/time to recover for UCinn. They took Stacey with plenty of time for us to regroup and focus more on Diamond/Kozan/Garnett ...
Narduzzi and Dantonio's comments show that either they don't know how recruiting works or that they're living in some fantasy world in which the MSU is somehow above getting poached.
I can't see anything in the recruitment of Pittman that was unethical. At least Bielema had the foresight to see that Dodson might move to OSU. MSU seemed genuinely shocked that an Ohio kid that had been an OSU lean prior to Tresselgate, that (depending on who you talk to) tried to commit to Michigan, and that never seemed to be all that excited to go to MSU would leave them. And that Meyer was unethical even to ask? Give me a break.
Sparty sees the handwriting on the wall. The gentlemen rules that were in place when Tressel were there (assuming these even existed-- who has MSU recruited that OSU would want?). Hoke and Meyer are going to eat their lunch in Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Pennsylvania and the rest of the Midwest. Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska are going to take their share of kids in the western part of the Big 10. And Penn State will be back someday. MSU will be left with the rest of the conference to fight for the second tier of prospects in the Midwest and supplement with their "national" recruiting plan. I'd say their ceiling in recruiting ranking in the Big 10 is fourth.
If you talk with State fans, they'd say they're fine with that. Dantonio will coach up those 3 star players. We'll see how that works in the long-run.
I can't deny what dantonio hasbeen able to do with recruits with middling reputations, but I don't think it will last much longer. He certainly benefitted from the RR era where we were both losing and recruiting a different style of athlete. The joke, as you point out is this bullshit "national" recruiting strategy. Going to Georgia or Florida or Texas to snatch players that couldn't attract offers from UGA, Fla, or UT doesn't constiute a strategy. It's desperation.
You guys talk more MSU football here than the RCMB does. A post about a Wisconsin coach calling an Ohio State coach a dirty recruiter warrants an in-depth discussion of MSU's recruiting pipelines. Love the analysis.
And then this post gets bombed as flamebait? This board is becoming more delusional by the day. How everyone here has been coping with existence of MSU since the last football game has just been ridiculous.
I'm petitioning BRAIN to change the name of the board to "MGoTalkAboutStateBoard"
People here talk about MSU way too much, I agree, but saying we talk about you guys more than you do us on RCMB is a stretch.
Says the Sparty who regularly hangs out on Michigan blogs.
You're right of course, but look, it's not our fault RCMB hardly ever puts up any in-depth discussion of MSU football. This here is a blog mostly about in-depth football analysis for a team that considers Michigan State our second-biggest rival, and for most of us, our most proximal one. RCMB meanwhile is a bulletin board that has yet to go a day without using the epithet "scUM."
I have no problem with the amount of MSU analysis that appears on the board here. That RCMB can't do a better job at in-depth Spartan analysis than posters on a rival team's site says more about RCMB's general value than the MGoBoard's pathology.
If we're producing more than respectable outfits like The Only Colors, or ABDFF, then I'll worry. Until that day, please stop comparing RCMB to MGoBlog -- even if it's just our message board -- because they're not a blog, and they make blogs look bad when people think they are a blog or comparable to a blog. They're as much of an embarassment to the interwebs sports community as they are to Spartan fandom, and I don't want to be compared to that nest of trolls any more than you would.
I wouldn't say it's in-depth, just noticing the general facts about the situations
I like it.
I have no idea what you are talking about, but I'm sure you made a great point.
So we've got two coaches who had pretty poor recruiting classes complaining about the new guy at a much more prestigious football school who poached some of his recruits? Perfect. All I hear is WAAAAAH WAAAAAAH WAAAAAAH. Whether its an agreed upon rule or not its bullshit, until the LOI is signed no kid is "committed." If Narduzzi didn't see the writing on the wall with Pittman, he's an idiot. Pittman practically came out and said "I'm only committing to MSU so that I have a guaranteed spot at a school I like."
This looks, to me, like the two most insufferable coaching staffs in the conference being insufferable.
Lets See..... We stole Kalis from OSU and Norfleet from Cincy. Is Hoke a dirty recruiter?
And tried to get Dunn. As an OSU fan, I have no problem whatsoever with other schools trying to get our commits if those commits are showing interest. These are high school kids that deserve to have every option in front of them.
Excuse me if I don't share the same outrage as MSU/Wisconsin coaches - especially when coaches quit on their team for new jobs at every single opportunity. Hearing coaches talk about "commitmment" is laughable. Half of Wisconsin's coaching staff left - yet Bielema is admonished that high school kids are allowed to change their mind?
When a proud man is bested he often believes the other man has cheated some how.
Win some lose some but better recruit to the end on even the ones you got!
Misread it and was wondering why on earth Beilein would care about Meyer's recruiting tactics. Wasn't until I actually opened the thread that I realized it was Beliema, not Belein. Oops...
I couldn't figure out why Beilein would be commenting on Urban Meyer right after beating Indiana.
that in the interview after the game yesterday he almost said "Ohio State"? Giving an answer about lasy weekend's game, he said Ohio and abruptly paused then continued with his answer.
Big Ten football coaches have a bad habit of being a bunch of whiners. There is no point to it, and it just makes you look petty. I love the fact that Hoke would (apparently) never do this.
a much more fun B1G commercial for the BTN - all the coaches showing off their true personalities. Either that, or run the old "We've got wings" one and red "X" through each coach who's gone...
I think th eonly ones still in their jobs are ferenz, hope (for now), dantonio, bielima and fitzzgerald. gone: RR, Brewster, Tressel, Joe Pa (cooome to pennn staaate), indiana guy, zook.
Joe Pa is no longer coaching; dude isn't even alive.
To sum it up, based on appearance in the commercial:
Tressel (Ohio) - Gone.
Rodriguez (Michigan) - Gone.
Dantonio (Michigan State) - Still coaching.
Zook (Illinois) - Gone.
Paterno (Penn State) - Gone.
Fitzgerald (Northwestern) - Still coaching.
Ferentz (Iowa) - Still coaching.
Lynch (Indiana) - Gone.
Brewster (Minnesota) - Gone.
Bielema (Wisconsin) - Still coaching.
Hope (Purdue) - Still coaching.
Yesterday worked out perfectly. You've got the coaches of both division winners attacking the coach at Ohio while Mr. Hoke stays out of the fray. I'm 100% for this outcome. If the next few years consist of Meyer stealing Wisconsin and Sparty recruits and those coaches calling him a cheater -- I don't see how this doesn't help encourage kids with good character to end up at Michigan.
In the end, unless you are breaking NCAA rules, the only thing that matters is W's and L's.
...coming from Bielema, since he's "morally unfit to coach college football." http://michigan.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1155909
This serves our puposes just fine...Just as I don't want Hoke or any of our players complaining about Sparty's dirty play, I don't want them complaining about Tres...I mean Meyer's recruiting tactics. I do, however, want powerful folks pointing both out. I haven't read Sun Tzu, but this is likely a chapter.
I'm ok with this :)
A negative comment about a negative place = a positive for Blue!
Just ask Escalante a negative times a negative = a positive
Bielema is a tool bag. No argument. This may just be sour grapes, but he doesn't specifically complain about losing a recruit what he said was:
“There are a few things that happened early on that I made people aware of that I didn’t want to see in this league, that I had seen take place in other leagues. Other recruiting tactics, other recruiting practices that are illegal. “I was very up front and was very pointed to the fact, actually reached out to Coach Meyer and shared my thoughts and concerns with him. The situation got rectified.”
He doesn't give specifics. He could be lying, but what he said was that Meyer was using illegal recruiting tactics, and that apparently Bielema had to go all broseph on Meyer to get him to stop.
Let Dantonio, Bielema, and Meyer go at each other's throats. We have business to tend to.
With regards to Dantonio and MSU (and to a certain extent Wisconsin too) you're exactly right. With Michigan and Ohio returning to form the floor is literally falling out from underneath them and they're panicking and flailing around. I mean both programs have enough recent success so it's not like they're going to turn into Indiana, but their time in the sun is done
They both are tools, who ignore their own dirty tactics and call out others.
You think Douchetonio is mad now at Urbz, wait until Monty gets all better from the sickness and signs with Ohio.
Edit: Egg on my face please as Monty sent his LOI to Lil Bro this morning.
Bielema and Meyer are twin buttocks of the same bum.
Who cares? Let 'em all eat worms next year. F'em and feed 'em fish heads, I say!!
Who cares? Let 'em all eat worms next year. F'em and feed 'em fish heads, I say!!
use that word around here?), called Meyer unethical. Pot, meet Tressel-kettle, I say.
But this is a meme we need to push hard. Because Meyer--in addition to playing dirty--will further sully the B1G's rep, and that rep--putting moral distance between the B1G and SEC--is the best thing our conference has got.
Loud, vocal pushback is the best thing we all can offer to make sure he doesn't run off with more of our recruits, leaving his usual trail of slime. Michigan is, after all, most likely to be affected.
I say we all adopt a goal of running him out of the conference by 2014. :)
Like purposely telling your O-lineman to chop Martin. He plays with class... What a hypocritical douche.
Dantonio also cried unethical about losing Sevon Pittman, saying that wouldnt have happened under Tressel
If Bielema knows that Meyer is a cheater and liar, then he should call him out. We all know Meyer is anyway. Maybe Dodson told the Wisconsin staff something about what Meyer did or said during his recruitment. Things come to light - don't keep the blinders on.
I was thinking that maybe some other legitimately unethical stuff is going on and Bielema didn't want to call him out publicly on it, but just wanted to call him out to put the spotlight on his recuiting tactics.
that not too long ago Joe Tiller played Bret Bielema to Rich Rod's Urban Meyer. Tiller called Rodriguez a "Wizard-Hat Snake Oil Salesman". Link: http://www.aolnews.com/2008/02/07/tiller-rodriguez-a-wizard-hat-wearing-...
Rodriguez' conference "thefts" included Roy Roundtree (Purdue) and Michael Shaw (Penn State). We MGoBlog blogsters were delighted by both of these commitments, deriding Tiller as a jerk, and applauding Rodriguez as a great recruiter.
A bit of perspective before we jump all over Meyer.
but where's the evidence of malfeasance? Recruiting is sales. If you can't sell the merits of the University of Wisconsin and the great party town of Madison, Wisconsin, then hit the bricks pal! UW a great school and I'd choose Madison over Columbus every time.
Bielema has other problems besides recruiting. This new OC Matt Canada better deliver over what manball master Paul Chryst achieved.
Jusr saw on Sporting News' Twitter feed that according to Bielema, Barry Alvarez will speak to Delany about Urban's recruiting practices, saying, "We don't want to be the SEC."
I dont like Urban from his Florida days, but i wonder what he did wrong here. I am not sure Delany can do anything about it.
Hey I hate OSU and therefore I hate Urban Meyer, but I don't have to create some scenario in my head where it is unfair to try and recruit guys who are verbally committed to other team. That is the game. No need to cry about it. I hate the guy, but not for this bullshit reason.
the enemy of my enemy is my friend....
Anything more than recruiting guys that are verbally committed, who cares. One of the few things RR said that I agreed with had something to do with, "until they sign their LOI, they aren't committed anywhere."
This gentleman's agreement shit was bullshit when the pulled it with Rodriguez, and its bullshit now with Urban.
This gentleman's agreement shit was bullshit when the pulled it with Rodriguez, and its bullshit now with Urban.
That but if a kid ends up flipping how can anybody be pissed? If he flipped then he wasn't ever committed...why would you want a kid who could be convinced to switch on a dime.