Better off with Spike?
Is Walton really that much better than Spike? I really like the offense when Spike is running the show. I know he isn't a great defender, but he does everything else well, and is fun to watch. I suppose it's nice to have options at the point. Im not sure why it seems to be a given that Walton is our starter.
I think Walton has pretty good court vision, but Spike's is just really amazing
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March 13th, 2015 at 10:02 AM ^
since the MSU game. If Walton plays, his minutes are mostly coming from MAAR or Spike.
Spike is gonna start anyways, but I don't get the preference for him over for Walton. He's a better penetrator and passer, quicker and more physical and I like him on defense more. He's not worlds ahead of Spike or anything but I'd take him as the starter if he was 100%.
Hope he transfers.
Come on dude. Hate?
Edit: I see you edited your "hate" to "preference". Good idea.
Yeah that's why I changed it haha, much too strong a word.
"Hate" as in to quote Harbaugh quoting Frank Gore quoting Rick Ross: "These haters can't hold me back."
Just kinda feels like people don't give Walton his due... he was always gonna have big shoes to fill when Trey Burke left.
agree with your larger point, by the way. Walton at 100% is preferred over Spike. But if we could get them on the court at the same time I think that would be even better. People are suggesting Walton at the 2.
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March 13th, 2015 at 10:04 AM ^
but it ain't like MAAR is insanely better there.
Edit: noted below
March 13th, 2015 at 11:29 AM ^
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Wouldn't be opposed to it, but then against large teams like Wisconsin the 2 will be at a significant size disadvantage on D.
Edit: bigyellowtaxi with a better delivery.
Yes.
March 13th, 2015 at 12:56 PM ^
Have you seen him in practice or the the CCRB? Because I know you're not getting that from watching Walton play in games for Michigan. The guy is just not a point guard in any way. Even our wing players have been far better passers, Nik, Caris and now even Zak is showing it. Zak has made more good looks in the last couple of games than Walton has in his whole career so far. He's doesn't have a great handle, he rarely penetrates and almost never drives and dishes well. He doesn't anticipate or lead cutters or anyone who's about to be open and he doesn't create open lanes to find guys with by faking a drive or pass elsewhere to move guys out of the way. Spike is head and shoulders a better point guard than Walton, who is a player, but not a PG.
I think walton is the better pure scorer and defender, and if they put him where MAAR has been playing, which is a 2 and sometimes a 1, then I think he can be really good. As long as he understands his role
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Yeah, it is, but Walton was averging almost 5 boards before he got hurt, he can rebound as well as MAAR
Defense has to be accounted for also. I don't want a 6'5" wing/SG iso'd against either one.
March 13th, 2015 at 10:00 AM ^
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March 13th, 2015 at 10:10 AM ^
Yeah, I totally see what your saying. However, I think if Walton can get it going from the corner, which is his shot as well, I think we should put Spike in because he easily has the best vision on the team, and they are both average defenders. I agree though, not for too long because we need lenght against a team as big as Wiscy
March 13th, 2015 at 10:19 AM ^
Respectfully disagree. Walton's strength is penetration, he is not being used well to sit in the corner or on the wing waiting for a jump shot. He is a shot creator for himself and the team.
Spike however can play that role. I think he has a well-deserved reputation for being protective of the basketball but that's because he isn't making the same kind of plays that Walton can.
March 13th, 2015 at 10:09 AM ^
that took Wiscy to OT
He's a better defender overall than Spike and a much better rebounder than Spike, but spike gets more steals and can cause havoc on defense sometimes. He's bigger and stronger, jumps a little higher and comes through with big shots a lot of times, but his overall game doesn't match the freshmen or Spike IMO. I think Walton should be in the rotation but not a starter or full timer.
I'm not even talking about today or this tournament. More about next year.
Spike is a very good shooter with very good court vision. But he is a liability defensively and can't consistently drive the ball.
Walton is currently a better rebounder, defender, and better at creating his own shot. He's not as proficient as a shooter or passer. But Walton can work on both of those things in the off season. Where Walton has room to improve Spike doesn't, and that's why Walton is most people's choice for the future.
But he'll never have the natural instincts at PG like Spike does. Walton is clunky, he has to stop and think before he passes, he passes hard sinking line drives that are a beat late, behind, low, not leading, not anticipating, not putting the ball where it needs to be. Maybe he can become a good point guard but there hasn't been a hint of any indications of that. Irvin was a total non passer, not a bad passer, a non passer, and now all of a sudden out of nowhere he's a far better passer than Walton. Rahk has much more potential at PG than Walton. Spike's size costs us an easy basket for the other team now and then but we play good, and better and better, team defense anyway. We lose games on offense when we hit the droughts, & end of half/game collapses, not on defense. He makes up for easy baskets he gives up with steals and swataways that Walton does less often and whatever his defensive shortcomings it's way offset by how the offense works with him running it.
The beautiful thing is there's no point to your hypothetical. They'll both have serious impact next year doing what they do. I think DW will and should start and Spike should play serious minutes, and crunch time may see them both on the floor depending on defensive matchups (Spike is a liability).
We need both.
So I'll be that guy who just says agreed but with some style:
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Hey, why not? He's got great vision, is an accurate passer, and takes good care of the ball.
Besides, everybody else is getting a chance.
that will at least give Spike a few minutes rest. If Michigan has any chance to make a run through the rest of this tournament, Spike cannot play as many minutes as he has been. The other thing that Walton brings is being an excellent defensive rebounder. If that isn't needed against Wisconsin, I don't know what is.
Today - yes, Spike over Walton.
Next year - no, Walton starts but Spike should still play 25+ minutes off the bench. The biggest issue with Spike is he can't stay in front of anyone on defense... not his fault, he's just not athletic enough to stay in front of the good PG's in the Big Ten. So for every point/assist he gets us, it's usually given back on the other end.
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is the best argument for why we are "better off" with walton than with spike.
If we had a spike clone backing up spike instead of dakich backing up spike, I think we would have seen several more wins this year.
March 13th, 2015 at 10:14 AM ^
The NIT? We went to the Elite 8 with Walton at the point last year. I love Spike as much as the next guy, but this makes no sense.
Watching Monte Morris this year - and the game last night - it's a damn shame Walton was hurt so early this year.
To the OP you never really saw the real Walton this year after game 6 or so. He had the ankle sprain very early and was obviously limited and then tried to play on it for a month and it was not working well.
If you only care about distribution and not the horrid perimeter defense we have been pushing out I guess Spike is your man. MAAR seems to be the only plus perimeter defender we have - Spike is a minus defender. Walton is a better rebounder, shooter, and defender and for most of those categories it is not even close. You can make a case for Spike in terms of distributing the ball and better passer. Spike has improved his shooting lately but was in the upper 30% range for most of the year - that's not greaat. But basketball is more than about offense which is what 90% of people's eyes focus on. Walton does need to improve his distribution - his assist rate is not very good for a PG.
was in large part because of his nagging ankle injury. Walton really gave us a lot last year in terms of 3 point shooting and being able to drive and be a real scoring threat. Spike has somehow managed to be a solid penetrator despite having little threat as a scorer, but Walton has the ability to be the whole package.
March 13th, 2015 at 10:15 AM ^
I largely agree with your assessment--though I believe you are overly harsh on Spike. I get that Spike has defensive/quickness limitations, but in actuality he hasn't really hurt us defensively--at least this season. I have been surprised myself that teams haven't attacked Spike more than they do, but they haven't. Spike's court IQ allows him to do a decent job of compensating for his defensive deficiencies.
Are you talking for this game or in general? For this game, definitely Spike as the starter (better timing, conditioning, recent experiencce, etc.) But In general Walton is the better player (penetration, defense, rebounding, still runs the offense well). It will be very nice to have them both next year.
Walton > Spike... when healthy. Even when he's not, he still showcases skills that Spike just doesn't have. Spike is a better pure point guard, but we have also learned that Beilein's teams thrive with a skilled athletic point guard.
I guess the better way of putting it is that in no way should Spike ever supplant Walton as the starter where Walton is forced to sit on the bench. He was incredible as a developing freshman, and he has the potential to be an NBA draft pick if he's allowed to showcase that development when healthy next year. He was a projected pick this past year until he got hurt, and this is a guy that should only help is status with another year.
Walton is going to be phenomenal for us next year, and I can't wait to see the development of this team with a healthy Walton and potential Levert return, not to mention Duncan Robinson and the possibility of getting this overseas kid. We seriously have a chance to be an incredibily special team again next year.
And with the projection that Dawkins is currently on, I would not be surprised to see him blow up next year. Like gone to NBA ala Burke/Stauskas blow up.
This year's team is fun to watch, but next year's has the potential to be extremely fun.
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Spike's probably a better fit at the two since he is more of a knockdown shooter. It strikes me as a waste of Walton's talents to not have him with the ball in his hand, but Spike is a threat the defense has to account for and can't leave open.
I agree though. If either one is in the game for the full forty, that's the best solution.
March 13th, 2015 at 10:30 AM ^
March 13th, 2015 at 10:37 AM ^