Better comparison school to Michigan - Notre Dame or UVA?
I am watching the UVA-VTech game and it got me thinking about the UVA job now that it looks like Al Groh is on his way out.
In some ways Virginia is a parallel to Michigan: big state school, "public-ivy" with high academic standards, competes in conference, another big D-1 program in-state, struggled recently.
Now Virginia does not have the same football history, tradtion, or national recruiting pull to Michigan or Notre Dame.
With likely job openings at Notre Dame and Virginia - it will be interesting to see the hires at these schools and the trend that is set at highly regarded academic schools like Michigan.
So, with Michigan often compared to Notre Dame, wonder if if a case can be made to make UVA the program to measure Michigan against?
Probably overwhelmingly in favor in Notre Dame, just because of the football, but with public universities and their budgets and activities under-fire, I think UVA makes it an interesting discussion.
November 28th, 2009 at 4:38 PM ^
I am not sure what exactly you are asking. With that said, to hell with Notre Dame. I'll take UVA any day!
November 28th, 2009 at 4:41 PM ^
for my saturday afternoon on my thoughts on how UVA just seems like another school that we should compare ourselves to in football and how our program is doing
November 28th, 2009 at 6:43 PM ^
I don't think that our programs are all that comparable (as far as football) with the exception of the Barber years. They are the second tier program in their own state which could be said of Michigan the past two years but not traditionally.
I don't believe they have the ability to go after a big name, rather they will need to look at an up and comer. Maybe someone like Charlie Strong from Florida or Muschamp from Texas (unless he's a coach in waiting there). I don't think they have the resources, like we do, to grab an elite coach or garner their interest.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:00 PM ^
I think without Beamer, UVa would be the better program. I would like them to hire Mike London from University of Richmond. There were some mentions of going after Tommy Tuberville, Groh's buyout is like $4M though, so they may go cheap.
November 28th, 2009 at 4:44 PM ^
Academically UVA, Athletically ND
November 28th, 2009 at 5:05 PM ^
Also, Berkeley, UCLA, and North Carolina are most similar.
November 28th, 2009 at 5:15 PM ^
is following Nebraska's lead.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:41 PM ^
Are you accusing Lloyd Carr's players of taking steroids?
November 28th, 2009 at 5:22 PM ^
That said, it is not the only one that excels both academically and athletically. And it's important to note we are talking about public schools here. As UNCwolverine pointed out, Cal-Berkeley, UCLA and UNC are good examples; Wisconsin, USC (that USC) and Texas are also excellent institutions of higher education and most of us can't argue against their strength on the playing field. Notre Dame is a private, Catholic school. The only similarity between the University of Michigan and Notre Dame is the football tradition. Well, M will forever be linked to ND because we taught them how to play the game.
November 28th, 2009 at 5:35 PM ^
If you're talking about the Southern Cal USC, they're a private school as well.
November 28th, 2009 at 5:36 PM ^
If Texas is in there, Florida should be as well.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:11 PM ^
Oh yeah, Florida is a real academic powerhouse...
November 28th, 2009 at 5:25 PM ^
Based on the combination of football tradition and academic excellence, of course, Notre Dame.
November 28th, 2009 at 5:25 PM ^
2nd fiddle in their state, football reputation-wise, while we're not.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:38 PM ^
VTech is the state "A&M" school like MSU is in Michigan - I was thinking like the most premier academically state schools. Michigan is the 4th best public university whereas UVA is 2nd.
Vtech and MSU are tied for 29th.
November 28th, 2009 at 5:34 PM ^
Although Ann Arbor smells less like reefer 364 days of the year (Hash Bash excluded).
November 29th, 2009 at 2:42 PM ^
You think there's less reefer in AA than Berkeley? I mean, I've been to Berkeley a number of times and sure, they've got plenty of weed, but it's hard to say there's more weed anywhere than Ann Arbor.
November 28th, 2009 at 5:42 PM ^
UVA is actually small for a state school. It only has 14,000 undergrads. Academically, it's very similar to Michigan--great undergrad and graduate programs. I would say Berkeley or UNC are more similar.
In terms of football situation, well, my biggest fear is that we're similar to Louisville. I don't think it will get that bad though. Kragthorpe didn't get a very fair shake regardless.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:37 PM ^
Kragthorpe? Not a fair shake? *head asplode*
Kragthorpe took a 12-1 team, with no huge amount of attrition, and went 6-6 without a bowl game. Louisville's recruiting fell off the map and each year was progressively worse until they hit a pre-John L. Smith low. That's a pretty fair shake.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:28 PM ^
I know, and you make a very good point. He had 19/22 starters return and the change in system might not have been that drastic. I just don't think 3 years was fair enough. Part of the thing is, according to an article in Sporting News in 07, Kragthorpe found that the team had no off-field discipline under Petrino (go figure). And once Kragthorpe started losing, the Louisville fans started going nuts.
Maybe he isn't the coach that Louisville thought he'd be. Crazy pressure from fans can also get to coaches, but it's ideal that they be able to deal with it. (Maybe it doesn't faze them but we think it does. I don't know.) I just don't think that 3 years is enough. But then again, if it's clearly not working out and sticking with him will only hurt the program more, then maybe you should fire him. 3 years just doesn't feel like enough, but I'm not too wild about the way Louisville fans seemed to treat him regardless.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:27 PM ^
I would say M and ND have the more in common given the rich traditions both schools have with winning.
UVA is a school that once lost 28 games in a row during the 50's when my dad was in law school there. As much as the Cavs have had some strong years in recent memory, the football tradition is very unlike M's.
The other day, the Richmond Times Dispatch led off a fluff article about the Va Tech-UVa game with a plug for a special holiday 'charitable donation' opportunity. The idea was donate to UVa to help buyout Groh.
Tongue in cheek yes, but getting rid of Groh is not so easy. The problem is not just the 4 million, but if I'm understanding correctly, the University had to buyout the former basketball coach recently as well. I don't have details on that piece, but it sounds like, they'll need someone to step up and pitch in to say goodbye to Al.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:35 PM ^
good stuff you got there
November 28th, 2009 at 9:28 PM ^
...that the University of Washington is Michigan's eerie West Coast twin.
Yes, I am potentially nuts.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:12 PM ^
UVA is a university and so is Michigan. Both have FBS football programs. Beyond that I am unsure of the potential for comparison if only based on the history that would inform their coaching searches. UVA is a program without a real identity; in terms of on field success they would be Little Brother's little brother. In that sense, a name hire like Groh made sense at the time although results on the field haven't been good.
UVA conference Championships:
1908 - Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association
1989 - ACC (Co-Champions with Duke)
1995 - ACC (Co-Champions with Florida State)
UVA National Titles : 0
vs.
Michigan
42 Conference Championships
11 National Titles
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:52 PM ^
Now wait just a god damn minute. UVA doesn't compare to Michigan on the field, but Little Brother's little brother? Negativo. Between UVA and MSU, one has 20 more wins than the other over the past 30 years and it ain't MSU. One has gone to more bowls than the other and it ain't MSU. If Groh was a bad hire and went 59-53, what does that make MSU at 51-51 over the same time period? We might have a middling program, but by every measure you can think of, it's been better than MSU's.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:17 PM ^
How in the world did Groh still have a buyout in his contract after nine years of suck at UVA? Does anybody else remember the excitement when he first came aboard and they started signing serious blue-chip recruits? I can't believe they have kept this guy around for nearly a decade and still owe him money after the very disappointing job he's done.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:47 PM ^
If you were an alum!
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:53 PM ^
Maybe because it wasn't nine years of suck.
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:08 PM ^
You are the only UVA fan I've ever encountered who doesn't think it was nine years of suck. If the highlight of your decade long coaching tenure is the fact that your team were back-to-back Continental Tire Bowl champions, then you pretty much sucked (especially considering the early recruiting success Groh had).
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:47 PM ^
Then I'm the only UVA fan you've ever encountered. Nobody thinks the whole decade sucked. Nobody thinks nine wins sucks. And if you had actually asked a UVA fan about, say, 2002, he'd tell you the Tire Bowl was a gyp and a half, because we finished second in the ACC that year and shouldn't have dropped to the fifth bowl.
Groh brought two nine-win and two eight-win seasons. That doesn't suck, especially if you judge the program by the same yardstick people are using to call UVA "Little Brother's little brother." So why fire him? Um, you do that with coaches that go 3-9 for their third losing season in four years. And even so, we played on New Year's just two years ago, so even the latter part of the decade hasn't been completely full of suck.
December 3rd, 2009 at 1:30 PM ^
I was certainly not on board with the "little brother" comparisons. The first college football game I ever attended was on Mr. Jefferson's campus and I have dozens of Hoo fans/alumni among my family and friends. Every one of them, myself included, thinks Groh was an enormous disappointment for his entire tenure (that 2002 team may have won 9 games, but they lost 5 too). The guy never lost fewer than 4 games, despite regularly having top-ranked recruiting classes. Throw in four losing seasons, and yes, he sucked the whole time. Groh had a prime opportunity to lift up the program while the two legit powers in the conference were/are struggling, but he failed terribly.
Maybe your issue is one of semantics, and perhaps "suck" is too strong a word to use. Still, when a guy puts together two ranked teams in nine years on the job after bringing in loads of high-end talent, I think it is more than fair to wonder why that same guy continued to get contract extensions to the point where the school still had to buy him out of his deal nine years after they hired him. In my mind, Groh's tenure was terrible all the way through and I hope they find the right coach to get things moving in a positive direction.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:55 PM ^
USC is the parallel you want to draw.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:44 PM ^
michigan and notre dame are the two most prestigious programs in all of college football, not questions about it.
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:39 PM ^
I've been to all three schools and to compare Michigan to ND is an absolute farce.
Other than the cold weather and football tradition, there are no similarities.
Similarities with UVA?
Public school, highly ranked, draws similar out-of-state students, women you'd actually have sex with, and non-catholic.
UVa wins.