Best RB options for 2010?
After watching the Spring Game and keeping up on the "reported" development of the Running Backs, my theory about the best options for 2010 are as follows:
Undoubtedly, we are going to see a committee of backs. Coach Rod has always done this in the years at UM and WVU. In UM's case this season, I think it will be a case of Thunder and Lightning. Michael Shaw is going to have to be a durable Carlos Brown type. In the video I have seen, he seems to "juke" a bit too much but that may be a direct result of his lack of burner speed. I have no problem with Shaw. However, I think the Thunder component is where we will see the big difference from last season. I really like what Stephen Hopkins brings to the table. I am concerned about his speed in the open field. That is what made Brandon Minor so appealing with that he could "truck" a LB and then run away from most members of Big 10 defenses.
I am intrigued by Touissaint but I haven't seen him do anything even close to his HS Rivals film. I hope we don't become a "QB run heavy offense" because that is how we are going to experience injuries. When Pat White went nuts, it was tough because Slaton was back there.
Any thoughts?
April 20th, 2010 at 11:57 AM ^
I think the best options is an efficient use of all the backs.
If someone is hot, feed them the ball...If someone isn't, find someone who is.
They all have different skill sets, and can all serve a purpose if given the opportunity to suceed
April 20th, 2010 at 12:05 PM ^
I have zero worries about our RBs. Although they're for the most part completely unproven, like you said, I think we have a myriad of talented guys in the backfield. With our O-line, I think we will be able to move the chains on the ground well.
I have no worries as well. Someone will step up to be our #1 back. Just look at Mike Hart, he wasn't even projected to be the starter. Then bam he had one hell of a frosh year. I have a feeling the new guy will be wearing #20 as well, Mike Shaw.
April 20th, 2010 at 11:58 AM ^
The two front-runners for the job throughout spring were Shaw and Cox.
Cox averaged 6.3 yards per carry in the spring game and scored a 22-yard TD. Gardner was the only player to average more yards per carry.
(Shaw had less than 2.0 yards per carry.)
do spring game stats even mean anything?
It's not a real game, obviously.
But would we all be so excited about Denard right now if he had gone 3/15 for 12 yards and 2 interceptions?
And despite Denard's good showing, wouldn't we be equally excited if Forcier had gone 20/20 for 400 yards and 11 touchdowns?
When you have one guy averaging 6+ yards per carry and another guy averaging less than 2 yards per carry, the stats are at least something to consider. I'm sure the coaches are looking at whether the line blocked the play properly, if the back made the right reads, if the defense made a stellar play, etc. But when it comes down to it, you need a guy who's going to gain yards consistently. Cox has seemed to do that with every opportunity he's been given (DSU, EMU, the spring game).
April 20th, 2010 at 11:58 AM ^
I think Shaw has BURNER speed. I think what you saw in the spring game was a direct result of improved run defense.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:23 PM ^
I will make this simple. SHAW IS FAST.
before D-Rob, Shaw was the official dilithium producer for University of Michigan football.
April 20th, 2010 at 11:58 AM ^
I could have sworn the appeal of Shaw was his burner speed.
April 20th, 2010 at 11:58 AM ^
Did you just mention that Shaw has a lack of burner speed? In case you didn't catch that thread recently (or watch him play), Michael Shaw is most definitely fast.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:01 PM ^
Mike Cox.
Also, durable and Carlos Brown should not be used in the same sentence.
...unless one was saying that Carlos Brown is the opposite of durable.
April 20th, 2010 at 11:59 AM ^
In the video I have seen, he seems to "juke" a bit too much but that may be a direct result of his lack of burner speed.Lack of burner speed? Really? http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/mike-shaw-has-speed
April 20th, 2010 at 12:00 PM ^
Please don't use the terms Thunder and Lightning to refer to Michigan running backs.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:18 PM ^
I prefer the terms Liquid and Plasma.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:24 PM ^
Whos talking about TVs?
April 20th, 2010 at 12:27 PM ^
and Di-lithium (D.R.)..... Liquid? mmm... not so much. We need another term instead of liquid. Any ideas?
April 20th, 2010 at 12:40 PM ^
Our arsenal is much more expansive than a 1-2 punch. We have more of a snap, crackle, pop, shatter, sizzle, and burst type of line up.
How about rock, paper, scissors, and candle, in honor of our fearless leader's description of the RR spread?
This is not "rock rock rock," it's "rock, scissors, rock, rock, paper, scissors, candle, rock, wait what candle(?) oops you scored a touchdown."
April 20th, 2010 at 12:16 PM ^
My concern with Hopkins is his acceleration. He's impressive with a load of steam, but will he reach his top-end speed quickly enough against D-1 defenses?
I wonder if there's a package in place with Hopkins, in a schmitt type role, on one side of the QB and one of the speedy guys on the other side. I think WVU featured this with Slaton, White and Schmitt all in the backfield at the same time. Of course I'm not saying that Hopkins is Schmitt-I think he could have the potential to be used in that capacity.
I-form may be a good thing for Hopkins if this is true. He can get a head full of steam by the line of scrimmage and punch it in from the 1 *cough* Illinois *cough*
April 20th, 2010 at 12:23 PM ^
We are more than fine at the RB position. Plenty of horses to choose from. At various times, each will star this season.
Not to concerned about developing the one main go-to guy, either.
The best Michigan teans in program history were marked by the fact that 2-3 different guys could get the running game going. Frankly we became way too reliant on milking just one back over the last decade.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:28 PM ^
When McGuffie left I actually wasn't that bothered because I thought we had so many fairly-equal talents lined up beside and behind him (Shaw, Toussaint). That was dumb.
Watching offensive highlights from last year I kept having the feeling that we will miss Minor and Brown much more this year than we think.
I support Shaw, mainly because I think he is our only chance at having a very good back in 2010. I could see him being bleh, but he could also be very good. And heaven help any defense that starts a play watching his world class track speed run in one direction (he is very much a burner) while Denard starts bolting in another. Are you kidding?
I could see Cox being good. Toussaint being good. But I don't see either being much more than a little above average as a Big 10 back in 2010. I think Shaw could blow up if he plays to potential.
(I like Hopkins to take the bruising straight-ahead carries regardless of who wins the job of go-to read-option stretch play guy.)
April 20th, 2010 at 12:30 PM ^
I find it odd that the OP didnt mention the only back that actually averaged even 4 YPC in the spring game, Mike Cox. I wouldn't be surprised to see as many as 4 RB's getting a similiar amount of carries this year, but Mike Cox seems to be the clear leader right now (though I personally have no idea what's going on behind the scenes).
April 20th, 2010 at 12:35 PM ^
on what the back 7 of each team looks like.
Big, slower LBs and safeties? Get VSmith out there to juke them or Shaw to run by them.
Fast little gnat-lookin guys? Deploy Hopkins to run people over and wear em down.
Generally? I think Shaw has the edge and will be a star. He has the speed, experience, moves, and hands to be the clear #1. I may be going against popular opinion and Spring hype, but I don't think Cox will be in the top 3 in terms of RBs.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:59 PM ^
I'm with you on this one. I expect to see my favorite configuration: rotate in the first half and go with whoever is doing the best in the second half. With all of those backs, someone will be able to "decode" every defense.
That is one reason that the spring game isn't always a great indicator of talent: maybe a particular RB's style won't work against the UM defense but will kill someone else's. You never really know until the whistle blows to start the season.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:43 PM ^
I think the majority of our running backs will carry the ball in their right hand.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:58 PM ^
if they are running down the right sideline. If they are running down the left side line, then your statement would be false.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:44 PM ^
Is that Cox will start the season with the ball in his hands. Shifty strong and fast he is. Hopefully Smith is back to 90% before Cox has any significant injuries. Hopkins is your third and 1 guy. Sorry Shaw, I think "Career Backup" may be in your future.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:49 PM ^
I'm not concerned with the RB's. I think Toussaint, Shaw and Cox are all capable, we will just have to wait and see who takes advantage of the opportunity. Learn the damn playbook, stay healthy, don't get a case of fumblitis, whoever can manage that will be M's next 1000 yard RB.
Tate and Denard continuing to get better, I have no reason to think they won't, coupled with improved OL play, equals gaping holes for the RB's.
I am not including Smith due to recovery from knee surgery
...just needs to turn a couple of RBs into this:
yeah but if you take away all Barry's long runs, he was just an average to below average runner:)
Shaw is a burner and Minor wasn't really fast enough to run away from most defenses. He wasn't a slow, plodding back, but by no means was he going to run away from most safeties.
I think our stable of backs will be fine. We have a lot of varity and whoever fits the play call or is hot on game day will get the carries.
I know these have been touched on, but I stopped reading after the OP said "durable Carlos Brown" followed by saying Shaw has "lack of burner speed."
OP - what do you think about Will Campbell at the nose? He would be better if he had Cissoko's off-field decision making to make up for his lack of ideal size.
since we're only talking the truth here, I've got some ice age insurance I'd like to sell you....
I can't defend the Shaw lack of speed thing, but I read the Carlos Brown comment to mean 'if he becomes a durable version of Carlos Brown'.
...that one will emerge as the consistent favorite and will get probably 40% to 50% of the carries. That said, platooning will continue to be a popular strategy to keep all these talented kids happy and involved.
One thing we don't know is who will be better at pass protection and knowing the system. Smith was the best at this last year and a major reason why he got playing time late in the year. Same thing for Mike Hart. Its a very underated aspect of playing running back and I honestly don't know who is the best.
That being said,
Mike Shaw is tall but not that big. He definitely has elite speed. He also has some wiggle, is our most experienced runner and has decent hands. Negatively, he seems to go down very easy however and doesn't seem to have great vision ime.
Mike Cox wasn't as heralded as some of the others, but is the best combination of size and speed with the ability to run through or go around people. He isn't as fast or have the moves of Toussaint or Shaw, but, according to his teamates, is probably the best all around athlete on the team. Don't know about his hands or his blocking.
Toussaint is my favorite for the spot. I am basing most of this on his track speed and rivals film. He is smaller than Shaw and Cox at 5'9", but is thick and tougher than Shaw, ime. He is faster and has better moves than Cox. I am not surprised that Cox and Shaw were talked about more in Spring practice early on. They had both been through a spring before (Shaw twice) and Toussaint hadn't. There was talk of Toussaint coming on late.
Hopkins is a big dude with a strong running style and will see time this fall, but if Cox can be the power runner I think he can, Hopkins time will be very limited. I don't think he has the moves or the speed and will be less experienced than the three ahead of him. (four if you count Vincent Smith)
Vincent Smith is the most elusive, though I think Toussaint isn't that far behind. The coaches clearly had faith in him last year as he got more playing time at the end of the year than Shaw despite being a freshman. But he is very small and does not have top end speed. Plus, his best asset will be limited coming off an ACL tear. Don't see him playing much this year.
White-think he will redshirt.
Grady, Terrence Robinson, Denard Robinson with Tate at QB-these guys all may get some run too but don't believe any of them will feature at the running back.
I think the guy with the most god-given talent is Shaw, but he just doesn't seem to have "it". Cox probably is the most versatile. Toussaint has the best chance to be an all-american I think. As long as one of those guys steps up, or a combination of them do, we are going to be just fine at running back.
I really like Stephen Hopkins. His recruiting ranking boggles me, because he's a big, punishing runner, who has pretty good speed, and who produced like crazy for a large program in Texas. Because we have so many darty players, (the slots, some of the RB's, whoever plays QB) having a punishing runner will be such a change of pace that I think he'll be very productive. I know people like Cox as our power back, but Hopkins as 20 lbs on Cox. There will be many LB's who don't have the mass that Hopkins has, and with a full head of steam, he could be a real load up the middle.
With a full head of steam, Mike Cox is a real load up the middle, too.
'Course, I'm 40 and need the full head of steam more than when I was, say, 25.
/4th grader
I'd really like to see a great tailback emerge from the bunch. Or at least a great one-two combo. I was impressed by Cox in the spring game. His cutting ability, burst, and vision look really good. I'm having unpleasant memories of our mediocre 2001 tailback rotation now.
I think we will have a good rotation. We have Vincent Smith and Mike Shaw as the speed backs. We will have Mike Cox and Stephen Hopkins as the power guys. Then we have Fitz Toussaint who is a mixture of both. We won't have a clear cut guy but as a group we should be very productive.
Don't give up on V. Smith's recovery just yet. Once fall comes around, hopefully he will be able to participate in practice at 100%.
Vincent Smith is the man to beat.