Columbus = capital of Ohio
Ohio Statehouse = capitol of Ohio
Columbus = capital of Ohio
Ohio Statehouse = capitol of Ohio
Let's seperate Tressel from OSU.
Tressel: Something like a 4 to 6 month ban from all coaching activities (which will be enough to force him to resign).
OSU: Vacate 2010 regular season. Probation.
I honestly think that'll be it. There's nothing in the current NOA that would indicate something more for Ohio State. It certainly won't be anything like USC for a variety of reasons.
I think the car stuff is overblown and very difficult to prove. WIth the news today, it basically comes down to "OSU players bought used cars with a normal price distribution centered around the KBB value". Maybe something comes of the Pryor loaners, in which case he might just get kicked off the team.
Maybe something comes of the Pryor loaners, in which case he might just get kicked off the team.
Other than the obvious cost difference, what's the difference in principle in taking a car or a house? I'd think OSU would be looking at Reggie Bush sanctions 2.0 if they find something improper with the loaner cars.
The cost difference has mattered in the past, so there is that. I don't think it was the house alone that got USC in trouble, but the lack of any cooperation or oversight. It would have been interesting to see what punishment USC received if they said something like "Jeez... I guess you're right. Here's what we found, here's what we think we should do." Instead, they denied it all and completely ignored it.
Given a reasonable level of oversight by the university, it seems that the NCAA usually just penalizes the athlete (AJ Green, Bryant, the UNC guys, etc).
Good point, but the missing piece is where the university (or was it actually the NCAA?) said that there was nothing improper going on when he got pulled over those times. That's where I think the link to Bush is, with two compliance departments that might have really screwed the pooch.
And it may have been, but like I said I just could not have seen it yet, is HOW did these guys afford those cars?? Where did that $ come in from? Not all of these guys have parents w/ wads of cash behind them. Based on their investigation it could get a lot worse for OSU depending on where the finances were coming from for these guys.
Would totally love to see them vacate their 2010 wins, including the bowl, plus 4 years of no bowls. I don't think Tressel will resign. I think if he's had enough balls to essentially turn his back on the compliance dept, the athletic dept, and NCAA he could stick his nose up to them and stick it out. Just a matter of if the NCAA will drop him (which I doubt) or if OSU gets smart and does it first.
Same place lots of people get money to buy cars. The bank.
I would be more suspicious if they paid cash, but with cases like Thad Gibson, a large national bank isn't going to care that you currently play for OSU. They just care about you making payments either from your co-signer, or from your potential future earnings.
Other kids will have parents who no longer have to worry about college expenses and can afford a used car. Every case is different.
That these guys are getting their $ from the banks and not boosters? I don't work at a bank so I"m not familiar w/ how "qualified" these guys have to be. Can't imagine many 20 year olds have the credit/collateral/etc. to be given the $ for these rides. Is the only credit they need the jersey they're wearing?
I don't think you can just launch an investigation into how someone or their parents may have paid for something. Lots of college kids not from particularly affluent households have cars. You have to stick to evidence of inappropriate benefits, which I think they will have plenty of.
Drawing conclusions based on your perception of what a certain household should be able to afford is going too far.
The tressel issue is he lied to the NCAA ... ask Bruce Pearl about that ! He knowingly played ineligible players for the entire year & then when questioned about it, sign a sworn statement to the NCAA that was FALSE. Bottom line - tressel gone for non-compliance.
The cargate issue has now blown into the athletic department. Remember the salesman is quoted as stating that ALL deals were approved by the athletic department. If true (and why would this guy lie ?) this speaks to the systematic approval of the entire athletic program to ignore NCAA rules. Talk about non compliance & institutional control issues !!!
I believe we may be witnessing the largest breach of conduct the NCAA has ever dealt with, certainly much larger than SMU or USC. But the sad reality is that money and power will prevail and NCAA's lack of "balls" will allow tsio to skate away relatively unharmed compared to the crimes that have been committed.
Go Blue !
3-5 years probation, vacated wins, show-cause order for Tressel.... and that's it. Maybe a bowl ban to make-up for the NCAA falling hook, line and sinker for OSU's spiel last season.
I'll believe the NCAA is going to hit OSU for all the other illegal shit they do when it happens.
The fact that all these allegations/findings already happened within a probation cycle (5 years from the basketball violations) Id be willing to bet they will get alot more than just another 5 year probation.
Id say 7-8 years probation, vacated last years wins/bowl, 2 year post season ban, 25 scholorships over 5 years
2 years probation, 1 yr. bowl ban (that also means no B1G title game), probably show cause for Tressel (but OSU keeps him and he does not quit), maybe (or maybe not) loss of a few scholarships -- but not as many as USC, and vacated wins in 2010 reg. season (they keep the Sugar Bowl win).
Really? That minimal? What's your reasoning?
Seems like OSU will be treated more harshly than USC b/c:
1. There seems to more actual evidence against them (even if I believe USC is dirtier and paid many a recruit in cold hard cash);
2. The OSU "proof" we already know about goes back to at least Clarett and Troy Smith;
3. Tressel lied. Then he tried to cover up his lie. He has to be gone for that.
4. Tressel did similar things at his last job -- which means he may never coach again;
5. The "cars" are widespread, and include both basketball and football. If anything comes from that, the basketball team may get nuclear;
6. Word out of UM after stretch-gate was that the NCAA delved into everything. If they do the same with OSU, it's likely that they'll find some payments to one and doners like Oden and Conley.
If most or all of those things bear out, OSU is looking at several major violations as a repeat offender. I'd guess something like:
a. Tressel is gone no matter what (resignation or fired)
b. Smith is gone (though probably not until after the penalties are assessed)
c. Loss of 2 scholarships to basketball for 3 years.
d. No post season for basketball for 3 years.
e. Loss of Institutional Control (Gordon Gee admitted that when he joked about not getting fired by Tressel) banhammer.
f. No post season for football for 4-5 years;
g. Loss of 6 scholarships for 5 years;
h. increase supervison and audits (if that's even possible) from NCAA.
i. vacate all Terelle Pryor wins (played ineligible player knowingly);
j. OSU hires Gerry Faust as coach
... I don't want them in our "W" column, but it would be nice if there weren't in the "L" column.
that them getting a bowl ban is a net loss for UM and the rest of the B1G, since they will most likely, even with reduced schollies and a new coach, still contend for the title and win the large majority of their conference games. without a bowl, it would slide every team up a notch, which is not fun. also, if they are an at-large for a bcs game, it is a pretty good payday for all the teams in the big ten.
i wish it was something really punitive, like they have to change their team name to the princess pretty ponies and change their colors to pink and another shade of pink. this would last for ten years minimum.
Wouldn't that be an improvement over the "throwbacks" they wore the last two years?
If they really want to drop the hammer and make other coaches and programs think twice about cheating, they'll do this:
2 year bowl ban, 2 years probation, 10 scholarships for each of the next 2 years, vacating wins for last season and no money brought in from TV contracts/TV ban for a year.
What likely is to happen is:
2 year bowl ban, 5 scholarships lost for 2 years, vacating wins from last season, substantial fine and show cause on Tressel.
How about we start by banning their idiotic throwback and camouflage uniforms?
25 schollys over 5 years....... 3 yr bowl ban ..... 5 yr probation ..... show cause for Tressel
vacated wins for 2010 Anything less and this stuff just keeps happening!!!
Thats why if you check out the Columbus Dispatch they act like its no big deal you have to make them cheaters feel it
Tressel will have to exlpain to each OSU fan, including players, who attended last year's Michigan game why one pound of feathers weighs the same as a pound of lead. He can't coach (or be paid) again until all of them firmly grasp the concept.
Alternatively, who the heck knows - its the NCAA. But yeah, some games will be vacated, some money will have to paid back, and some scholies will be lost. And we will have the same arguments with Buckeyes about whether the last seveal years really happened that Sparties have with us about the Fab Five.
I would say 2-3 year bowl ban and 10-20 scholarships over that time would proabably be about right. However, they could use the alternate route and punish TSIO with a bulldozer, can of gas, and a match, nothing like a clean slate and fresh canvas to really send the message.
"SWiltfong247: Michigan football fans, be sure to not sleep in tomorrow and check 247Sports #Wolverines"
are you sure?
Sure, I hate Ohio State. But there's something unseemly about the piling on, and about speculating about whether this or that punishment will somehow be good for Michigan.
What's best for Michigan, both in the short and long run, is to win because we're the better team, not because OSU is hobbled with penalties.
Michigan needs a strong Ohio State, just as Ohio State needs a strong Michigan. The Rivalry defines us as well as them. It's a huge part of being Michigan. It's a huge part of selling recruits on Michigan, and of being a Michigan fan. The Game is two giants taking the field against each other. It's not a giant and a guy with a ball and chain and a cane.
And the B1G needs a strong OSU for its image as a strong football conference, just as it needs strong UM, Wiscy, PSU, Nebraska, Iowa, and even (I hate to admit it) a strong MSU (sorta).
My best scenario - for Michigan - would be to see OSU stop cheating. Whatever that takes in the eyes of the NCAA, fine. It levels the playing field. But then let's get back to the business of putting a championship caliber Michigan team on the field, and renew this rivalry as it should be. If OSUers have to get a new coach, fine. But I wouldn't be too excited if this happens, because they're going to get someone capable of fielding an excellent football team.
That's how I feel. Just an opinion. Now neg me to Bolivia.
we need a non-cheating OSU much more than what we have now; that being a program acting as if its building a resume for admission into the SEC.
OSU does not need to "look the other way" as will probably be what JT is remembered for no more than we needed a Steve Fisher who was complicit by his not wanting to know what the hell is going on. No way in hell does a cheating program, no matter which, is good for the conference. To add to that the fact there is simply no need in their case because they breed the best instate talent in conference definitely calls for more than a weekend's grounding.
They have to feel the leather belt on this one or there will be no message sent. The "rivalry," as we know it, was founded on two programs with a genuine respect for one another and the undertanding that they would meet every year in November, both playing by the same set of rules.
As much as you are correct about the rivalry being arguably the best in the nation, you are wrong about it being more important than taking control of an unacceptable situation. Just as OU's dominance under Switzer and USC's under Carroll's, et.a., all that OSU has accomplished since Clarett will never be accepted by the football purists. It's a renagade program, pure and simple.
The rivalry takes a backseat to an assurance that OSU is not going to take the path of the SEC merely because of the final numbers. Michigan will bounce back as all great programs do, not unlike ND will do this season. The onus is now on OSU to guarantee it still belongs in the conference, not for anyone to cowtow to them.
I just came in here to post a carbon copy of this.
I'm a traditionalist, just like everybody else on this board, and I expect Michigan and Ohio State to be the two best teams in the Big Ten and national powerhouses every year. I actually root for them in every game that we don't play them, because I want them to be strong when we take them out. and, also, because I want the conference to do well.
3-5 years of probation. My guess, based on what has come to light for which there is tangible proof, Tressel resigns, Smith fired, 5 schollies per year for minimum of three years and 5 years probation. Vacate 2010, including Sugar Bowl(NCAA can back track).
If Pryor has been getting cars etc since recruitment: vacate all games played and add at least one schollie per year to the damage.
Either way, Tressel is gone before August, Smith SHOULD get his by the end of the season and Ohio fans will cry for years to come. Michigan, Nebraska and Wisconsin rule the B1G for the next decade.
If the basketball team is involved, they are done for the foreseeable future.
the OSU fans are not worried about punishment because they already live in Ohio - how much worse can it get?
OSU should get the death penalty, but all parties will agree to reasonable terms. OSU is too big to fail. The hypocrisy of the NCAA has made it this way. As for Tressel - I see two paths. Either he never coaches again, or he never beats Michigan again.
I have no idea what you just said.
But the NCAA should punish teams like OSU and USC by making them play all non-conference games on the road for 2 years. If big schools got hit that hard in the pocket book things would change!
Sounds to me like that's the death penalties hott step sister. Not a bad idea to hit their pockets and strength of schedule. They would still need to lose scholarships though.
1. Tressel fired
2. Vacate wins from last season
3. Sousaphone player that dots the 'i' at home games will be replaced by Pryor dressed as Morris Day playing the synthesizer while doing the bird
4. Bowl ban for a few years
Bowl ban for 2 years. 10 scholarships lost over 2 years. 5 years probation. Tressel either fired or sitting out entire 2011 season.
Take all of last years wins away and pull scholarships.
The NCAA President has stated that the hammer is coming out for school guilty of violations. Still I just don't see anything close to the death penalty. My best guess for the maximum....
1. Forfeit all 2010 games and bowl game
2. Loss of a couple of scholarships per year for 2-3 years
3. Bowl ban for 1-2 years
4. Lose a couple of coaches
5. Probation for 5-6 years
6. Just cause action on Tressel at which point he will resign to avoid being fired and come out smelling like a rose because of his resignation.
My best friend used to be AD for compliance at at Div I school (IAA football) and I posed this question to him re: OSU sanctions. His thoughts were the looming car scandal could be huge. If proven true, could lead to the dreaded 'lack of institutional control'. Again, his opinion, would mean loss of scholarships and bowl ban. Hopefully sanctions are in place prior to Commitment Day.
from "Carmen" Ohio to "Car" Men Ohio
The online assignment/notes/grades program we use at osu is called Carmen as well. To that I say, Carmen is a woman of negotiable affections. Just ask Bizet.
If it turns out that violations are localized, temporally-speaking, in the current bunch, I think we're looking at USC-level punishments. However, they may be qualitatively different. Remember, Reggie Bush was already gone at that point.
So I don't think that OSU will face having to vacate wins going that far back. I do think that a postseason ban will come into play, and think scholarship limitations will as well. The question for both is: how many? I think USC's precedent will be applied again.
What does this mean? OSU will go from a perennial 10+ win team to a 7-9 win team for the next 3-4 years. We will get some good recruits as a result, and probably beat them a few times during that stretch. But they won't be crippled and will be back before you know it--and probably with Tressel still as coach.
However, if the trail turns up repeated problems inconsistent with compliance dating back to the Clarret days...well...the dealth penalty might be off the table, but things could still get pretty hairy for the hairless nuts.
Gordon Gee is the highest paid public university president in the world. Not only did he let Tressel harm the good name of a great university (not as good as UM but pretty damn good), he joked about it in public. As always in these things, the kids who didn't cheat will get hurt worst, and the people who were in charge will walk away relatively unharmed. If I were a tOSU I'd want his head on a pike, but I'd settle for his resigning. Not gonna happen.
If I were a tOSU regent...
1) Vacate all wins with Tyrelle Pryor playing
2) 5 scholarships cut for the the next 3 years (possibly 4)
3) Banned from post season bowl games 3 years
4) Coach Tressel is shown the door (or gets banned for 1 year)
5) Ban Tyrelle Pryor from playing next year and force him to sit out of the draft for 2 years
6) Program under probation for 5 years with no provision for 'self reported' violations -> this is my grudge - you can't keep self reporting to avoid punishment
I'm in the camp of "they can win every game but one".
-YSU= QB getting cars and cash.
-MoC= Alleged Grades, cars and Cash.
-Smith,Holmes,Hawk,Pittman and others= Alleged cash.
-OTL piece on recruits getting cash and women.
-Now Car gate
Throw in Basketball and mix together.
I don't want them destroyed unless it's by UM on the field/court but damn I think they should get vacated wins for multiple years, reduced scholarships and post season bans.
I've posted before on I think Tressel gone regardless, no way he can continue to coach with this much scrutiny, OSU is just bidding there time to give Luke Fickell a try out/under the radar coaching search through the season.