Best Collegiate Rushing QB All-Time... Denard?

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July 19th, 2012 at 10:58 AM
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Best Collegiate Rushing QB All-Time... Denard?

I hope this isn't an awful off-season topic.  I was having a conversation regarding the best running QB in college football and asserted (me just being a homer lol) that not only is Denard the best NOW but he's the best ever.  In response several names were thrown out:

Tommie Frazier

Vince Young

Cam Newton

Mike Vick

 

In the speed department Denard crushes everybody but Vick, who he crushes in the stats department. 

Frazier is a legend, but again Denard's stats >.

 

What say ye? Are we watching the best ever?

 

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July 19th, 2012 at 11:01 AM | Yes. (Score:5 Normal)
samsoccer7
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Yes.

July 19th, 2012 at 11:01 AM | The tribute video i just (Score:4 Normal)
Sum1Valiant
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The tribute video i just watched speaks for itself, and its missing 25% of his collegiate career.

July 19th, 2012 at 11:02 AM | Yes. And he's not finished. (Score:5 Normal)
Waka
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Yes. And he's not finished.

July 19th, 2012 at 11:03 AM | Not quite (Score:4 Normal)
Dreisbach1817
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Eric Crouch won a heisman.  Frazier was probably the best.  I know those Oklahoma teams of the 80s had some great running QBs.

July 19th, 2012 at 11:05 AM | I'll put Denard behind (Score:2)
Schembo
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I'll put Denard behind Frazier for now.  Frazier had some crazy runs in big games.

1. Tommie Frazier

2. Denard

3. Pat White

July 19th, 2012 at 11:05 AM | Not the popular opinion here, (Score:5 Normal)
Blue-Chip
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Not the popular opinion here, but I will say Tommie Frazier. Right now. I reserve the right to change my mind after seeing Denard finish his body of work.

Your friendly neighborhood contrarian.

July 19th, 2012 at 11:10 AM | The only difference from (Score:3 Normal)
MAIZEandBLUE2002
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The only difference from Denard and those guys on your list is national championships (and heismans). Everyone except Denard either won or played in a national championship game. From purely a stats perspective, then yeah, Denard is absolutely in the discussion for best running QB of all time. Hopefully he has another monster season this year.

THOSE WHO STAY WILL BE CHAMPIONS

July 19th, 2012 at 11:16 AM | I wouldn't say that that's (Score:5 Normal)
GoBlueInNYC
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I wouldn't say that that's the only difference. As much as I (and we all) love Denard, he has a tendency to make poor decisions and throw more than his fair share of picks. I don't think it's as simple as "Denard just doesn't have the Nat'l Title appearances."

Is Denard my favorite running QB? Absolutely. Is he in the discussion for greatest of all time? Sure. Is he the greatest of all time? In my opinion, no.

I am this close to going all Dark Blue in here.

July 19th, 2012 at 11:26 AM | Clarification (Score:4 Normal)
Hobbes217
Joined: 01/05/2012
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Are we talking about the greatest runner who played quarterback, or the greatest overall quarterback who was known as a runner?

July 19th, 2012 at 11:27 AM | I think that's the key (Score:2 Normal)
GoBlueInNYC
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I think that's the key distinction. The degree to which Denard is the best definitely depends on how "best" is being defined.

That said, Denard is at or near the top of my list of favorite players of all time.

I am this close to going all Dark Blue in here.

July 19th, 2012 at 11:46 AM | My favorite player of all-time - no question... (Score:2 Normal)
ssuarez
Joined: 11/03/2008
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Denard is definitely my favorite player of all time in any sport on any team.

July 19th, 2012 at 12:03 PM | caveats (Score:3 Normal)
canzior
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none of those guys changes systems either....or played in a pro style..or west coast offense, they were all in run heavy option offenses their entire career under one coach with top 10 defenses.  Frazier, Crouch, Tebow, even Pat Whote can't throw as well as Denard as far as arm strength and accuracy (and accuracy isnt saying much).  Vick is probably a superior athlete, but they are remarkably similar in many ways.  As far as just individual talent, Denard would be my choice

July 19th, 2012 at 8:53 PM | You can't really bring (Score:2)
denardogasm
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You can't really bring championships into it though because look at the defense Denard was playing with during that time.  If you give him the defense he had last year for 4 years (with players across the board who probably reached their potential to a greater degree than the defensive players on those other guys' teams, but who were less highly rated), and take away the difficulties with the rest of the offense transitioning to what he was so naturally good at, he probably would have played in a championship by now.  I say he's the best.

"Michigan Defense" is dominating everything, in every aspect of life. That's a rough definition.

-Craig Roh 10/29/2011

July 19th, 2012 at 11:14 AM | He's certainly worth involving in the conversation. (Score:5 Normal)
Daniel
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People have stopped comparing him to people. He's not "the next Michael Vick," (thank goodness), or the next anybody. He's Denard. If it hasn't already started happening, he's going to be the point of comparison pretty darn soon.

The only downside to hearing people say a young QB makes "Shoelace-like cuts" is that it'll mean his days playing for the Maize and Blue are over.

Formerly 'mgoblaniel.'

July 19th, 2012 at 11:14 AM | history (Score:3 Normal)
umchicago
Joined: 02/05/2009
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you do realize that there were running QBs before 1980 right?  That said, Denard would be at or near the top anyway.

July 19th, 2012 at 11:15 AM | It's John Navarre (Score:5 Normal)
ShruteBeetFarms
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His speed and agility were unparalled.

"I'm not a vegetarian b/c I love animals. I'm a vegetarian b/c I hate plants"

July 19th, 2012 at 11:17 AM | So unparalleled (Score:5 Normal)
Daniel
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So unparalleled they were practically perpendicular.

Formerly 'mgoblaniel.'

July 19th, 2012 at 1:13 PM | Great one... (Score:1)
Brightside
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Physics has several methods of differentiating the two...  one key concept has to do with an item at rest...

*** This line intentionally left blank ***

July 19th, 2012 at 1:41 PM | Or, as Bill Nye's intro told us, (Score:2)
Daniel
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"Inertia is a property of John Navarre"

Formerly 'mgoblaniel.'

July 19th, 2012 at 11:15 AM | Looking strictly at the (Score:3 Normal)
Raoul
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Looking strictly at the numbers, Pat White holds the FBS record for career rushing yards by a QB at 4,480. Denard's career total is 3,229, so he needs 1,252 yards to break White's record (Denard had 1,176 rushing yards in 2011).

Twitter: @Raoul_000

July 19th, 2012 at 12:34 PM | It's a shame Denard probably (Score:1)
Lionsfan
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It's a shame Denard probably won't break it, since he's working with 3 years of stats compared to White's 4 years

If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?

StraightDave owes me a steak dinner

July 19th, 2012 at 1:21 PM | By The Numbers (Score:2)
LSAClassOf2000
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If Denard Robinson can have a senior year in the rushing department which is the statistical average of his two years as a starter (those numbers being 239 carries, 1,439 yards, 5.95 YPC and 15 TDs), then he would be projected to have Pat White-ish numbers really, even edging Pat out for the rushing yard record. Such a year would be awesome on several levels.

Even considering their whole career (all of White's and Denard's to date), they produce at a comparable level overall (again average year). By the numbers, it is certainly not out of the question that Denard could best White's career statistically, but in my opinion, much of this would be contingent on what he will be asked to do in the second year of this system.

 

"Funny isn't it, how naughty dentists always make that one fatal mistake."

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July 19th, 2012 at 11:17 AM | Winning the Heisman would secure it... (Score:1)
CasBMW
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but honestly will have to wait til the end of his senior year . I've heard people claim Tebow. But I honestly don't see Tebow as a running QB.  Frazier was awesome. At this time I would say Michael Vick albeit Denard stats looks better (as far as running).  I don't think you will ever see a QB from a BCS conference producing the RUSHING numbers like Denard. Ever.

 

***Rushing yards in one season. With the rise of Fitz, maybe difficult for Denard to pass White for ALL time (career)***

July 19th, 2012 at 12:28 PM | Tebow (Score:3 Normal)
DonAZ
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"But I honestly don't see Tebow as a running QB."

I'm not sure Tebow is anything but a running QB.  Not a flashy speedster like Denard, White, Young or Vick.  He was a fullback who could throw adequately and was surrounded by some remarkably fast talent.  When Florida needed five, Tebow could get it.

Midwestern born and raised ... now living in the heat of the Arizona desert

July 19th, 2012 at 11:18 AM | I say Denard... (Score:3 Interesting)
MaizeMN
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...but for discussion sake I think you have to throw Antwaan Randle El into the mix too.

 

Denard: 3229 so far. Needs 1251 to pass White. Denard holds single season with 1702.

Pat White, West Virginia (2005-08): 684 carries, 4,480 yards
Brad Smith, Missouri (2002-05) 799 carries, 4,289 yards
Antwaan Randle El, Indiana (1998-01) 857 carries, 3,895 yards
Joshua Cribbs, Kent St. (2001-04) 632 carries, 3,670 yards
Dee Dowis, Air Force (1986-89) 543 carries, 3,612 yards
Kareem Wilson, Ohio (1995-98) 885 carries, 3,597 yards
Eric Crouch, Nebraska (1998-01) 648 carries, 3,434 yards
Chris McCoy, Navy (1995-97) 682 carries, 3,401 yards
Beau Morgan, Air Force (1994-96) 594 carries, 3,379 yards
Brian Mitchell, La.-Lafayette (1986-89) 678 carries, 3,335 yards
 

L.S.A. '88

July 19th, 2012 at 11:30 AM | Randle-El... (Score:5 Normal)
Section 1
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...who coincidentally retired from football this week, was the best I ever saw.  He was pure brilliance, on a pretty crappy team.  Had he played for Michigan or Ohio State in a scheme that suited him... wow.

 

 

July 19th, 2012 at 11:36 AM | He was the soul of that IU team... (Score:2)
MaizeMN
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...and the sole reason I ever feared UM playing the Hoosiers in CFB.

L.S.A. '88

July 19th, 2012 at 11:43 AM | It really is arguable... (Score:3 Normal)
Section 1
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...that Randle El was perhaps the best thrower on that list.

And remember what an athletic freak he was; playing a little basketball for IU under Bob Knight, and baseball too!

When we consider the future of Denard in the NFL, it helps to consider Randle El.  Who no doubt has several million in the bank to secure his whole family.  I'd like it for Denard to see the same level of financial success.

 

 

July 19th, 2012 at 12:29 PM | Hard to compare Randle El (Score:1)
Greg McMurtry
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His team was so terrible that even though he was a great athlete, that team didn't help him one bit.  I remember that 58-0 game against Michigan--what a joke.  Really tough to compare him to QBs on great teams.

...confidence is the stain they can't wipe off...

July 19th, 2012 at 11:49 AM | Randel-El's stats against (Score:4 Normal)
WolverineHistorian
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Randel-El's stats against us...

1998: 26 rushes for 110 yards, 7 of 22 passing for 65 yards and 1 interception.

1999: 13 rushes for 31 yards, 18 of 34 passing for 290 yards and 4 touchdowns.

2000: 11 rushes for 39 yards, 13 of 27 passing for 111 yards and 1 interception.

Interestingly, he did more damage against us through the air than on his feet.  In 1999, he was a nearly completed hail mary away from beating us. 

Go Blue!  Always!

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July 19th, 2012 at 11:18 AM | Everyone always forgets Brad (Score:2)
UofM-StL
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Everyone always forgets Brad Smith.

Most career rushing yards for a QB (EDIT: until Pat White broke that record. Forgot about that), and he was absolutely electrifying to watch. He couldn't throw worth a damn, but he's pretty much the reason that Missouri is a competetive football team these days.

Having watched both extensively, I think Denard is better on designed runs, and Smith was a better scrambler. I never saw Vick extensively in college, but I assume he was pretty great too.

I don't think Newton, Young, Frazier, Crouch, Tebow or really anyone else approaches those three.

July 19th, 2012 at 11:42 AM | watching what Vick did to to (Score:2)
zachjand
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watching what Vick did to to Florida state in the bowl game when his o line was getting destroyed was amazing. Two guys tore their acl's chasing him around that game. He seemed to be constantly being driven back 10 yards, but somehow kept picking up yards on scrambles

July 19th, 2012 at 11:59 AM | Exactly.  Michael Vick's edge (Score:3 Normal)
willywill9
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Exactly.  Michael Vick's edge on DR might be the ability to "shake and bake".  Denard is very fast, but i'd like to see a little more elusiveness... don't get me wrong, i'm not saying he's not elusive, I'm just saying I think Vick has the edge there.

Touchdown Michigan!

July 19th, 2012 at 11:18 AM | I vote John Navarre (Score:4 Normal)
robbyt003
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I vote John Navarre

“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing” - Bo Schembechler

July 19th, 2012 at 11:19 AM | I don't know the official (Score:3 Normal)
WolverineHistorian
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I don't know the official stats but Eric Crouch at Nebraska was pretty dangerous.  It seemed like 99.9% of the Huskers offense was him running for 80 yard touchdowns every week. 

Go Blue!  Always!

http://www.youtube.com/user/WolverineHistorian

July 19th, 2012 at 4:13 PM | Randle El was exciting, but to this day (Score:5 Normal)
pdgoblue25
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No QB has ever pissed me off more with his legs then Craig Krenzel. 

I swear to god, everytime that fucker ran it was for a back breaking 1st down.

Janeane Garofalo (Film Actors Guild): "As actors it is our responsibility to read the newspaper, and then say what we read on television like it's our opinion"

July 19th, 2012 at 11:26 AM | I'd love to say that Denard's the best, (Score:2 Normal)
hart20
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But no Big Ten Championships, National Championships, National Championship appearances, or Heismans make it hard to argue.

Yep, that's Simba made out of a pineapple.

July 19th, 2012 at 12:20 PM | Those are all dependent on (Score:2)
Bobby Digital
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Those are all dependent on the performance of his teammates and do not preclude him from being the best individually... I don't think he is the best, but not for those reasons.

July 19th, 2012 at 11:27 AM | What's your criteria? (Score:2)
Don
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If it's pure speed, then he's probably the best, with the possible exception of Vick. If it's the ability to make people miss, I think Pat White might have been a bit more elusive. If it's the ability to bust tackles in combination with pure speed, I'd say he's not better than Vince Young. If your criteria is most yards gained in a career, then Denard has to gain a bit more than 1200 to pass White, who finished with 4480.

If your criteria is a QB who has the knack for making things happen with his feet when it's crunch time, then Denard is right up there at the top with White and Young.


July 19th, 2012 at 11:30 AM | Vick left early (Score:1)
Half Blood Dutc...
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He could possibly have shattered records. But yes, Denard is the closest thing to Vick we will ever see.

July 19th, 2012 at 11:34 AM | How many Big Ten (Score:4 Normal)
JimBobTressel
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How many Big Ten Championships?

How many National Championships?

Any Heismans?

Who's the biggest opponent Denard ever beat? Virginia Tech?

 

Tebow, Frazier, V Young, Pat White even...I'd put them above Denard. If it was just "speed" necessary to be a running QB, Robert Griffin III would still outclass Denard (Olympian).

The best ever...come on, lol. He's got the yardage of his sophomore season, true.

ATTN NBA Dads and Siblings: Have brothers / sons on the hoops come-up? 

Michigan = NBA Family U

July 19th, 2012 at 12:04 PM | The biggest opponent Denard ever beat (Score:5 Normal)
DCAlum
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is Ohio.

July 19th, 2012 at 12:07 PM | all of those (Score:3 Normal)
canzior
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are team accolades...none of the other guys on that list had awful defenses..matter of fact i think all of them had top 10 defenses at some point in their careers...and were all in RUN HEAVY/Option offenses with no coaching changes, and were only asked to throw to wide open wr's in 5 wr sets.  Denard playing 3 years under RR would be a different story

You win Heismans if your team is good (9-10 wins) same with conference titles/natl titles...By your reasoning Terrell Pryor was better as was Russell Wilson

 

July 19th, 2012 at 12:35 PM | I think it is a combination (Score:1 Normal)
JimBobTressel
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I think it is a combination of good statistics AND leading your team to vicotry in the clutchest situations. Do you see folks saying "Case Keenum is the greatest passing QB in college football history?" Timmy Chang and Colt Brennan? The dozen Texas Tech qbs under mike leach? If it was just yards, they'd all be considered for great status.

 

It takes more than just stats, it's great stats AND big wins.

ATTN NBA Dads and Siblings: Have brothers / sons on the hoops come-up? 

Michigan = NBA Family U

July 19th, 2012 at 12:40 PM | agreed (Score:2 Normal)
canzior
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but neither of us mentioned stats...you said Heisman, CT/NT..those players have conference titles.  Denard has everything but the accolades and its really the only thing keeping him from being in the national conversation about being one of the greatest.

July 19th, 2012 at 1:05 PM | agreed (Score:1)
JimBobTressel
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agreed

ATTN NBA Dads and Siblings: Have brothers / sons on the hoops come-up? 

Michigan = NBA Family U

July 19th, 2012 at 11:32 AM | I see no reason why Denard (Score:1)
gmoney41
Joined: 07/13/2009
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I see no reason why Denard can't blow up even more ala RG3.  RG3 was average at best in 2010 and completely revamped his game and won the heisman last year.  Denard is already incredible, if he can cut down on the Int's and poor decision making, sky is the limit.

July 19th, 2012 at 11:37 AM | Randle-el (Score:2)
Huss
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Let's give this man his due, he is the only reason IU has been relevant in football in years.

I said - not good enough.

July 19th, 2012 at 4:52 PM | He was awesome, but I don't (Score:3 Normal)
snarling wolverine
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He was awesome, but I don't think they were relevant even with him there.  

July 19th, 2012 at 5:05 PM | For Indiana, being seen as a (Score:1)
Lionsfan
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For Indiana, being seen as a team you can't sleep on or you could lose, is being relevent

If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?

StraightDave owes me a steak dinner

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