Benefit of Spread punt vs Dinosaur punt

Submitted by LewanHatesDonkeys on

I'm sure this has been discussed here before but my google-fu fails me.  Can someone break down what makes a spread punt so much better than the normal tight punt formation.  In my mind if the line fans out and covers their lanes it should be a toss up... in theory.  Anyone mind helping me out on this one.

MGoBoard
Football

Yeoman

January 8th, 2015 at 12:17 AM ^

It's about 50/50 in FBS right now.

(There's also some confusion about terminology--"spread" is usually used to describe the NFL-style punt referred to here as "dinosaur", with "shield" used for what here is referred to as "spread".

Joined: 06/08/2011

MGoPoints: 21390

getsome

January 8th, 2015 at 1:49 AM ^

hokes the last of dying breed, hawkeye rolling with the old school outside gunners.  im sure all opposing coaches during fred flintstones tenure almost felt bad about his incompetence - while licking their chops finding the other areas hed stubbornly fail to "put his players in best position to make plays."

its laughable now that hes gone though - just inexcusable to mindlessly put your team in certain guaranteed competitive disadvantages

Joined: 09/07/2013

MGoPoints: 7386

michWolves2580

January 8th, 2015 at 7:07 AM ^

You just made that up. The pro style punt is still very much used and it's about 50/50 in all levels of college football. It's a philosophy just like offense or defense. Stanford's offense in 2010 worked just as well as Oregon's this year. If coached well and executed well, then you will have a lot of success. If the gunners, wings, and tackles fan out correctly then it makes no difference.  

Joined: 12/16/2009

MGoPoints: 887

baldurblue

January 8th, 2015 at 12:27 AM ^

I don't think this topic is overblown at all, maybe it's talked about too much if that's what you mean.  But Hokes teams were consistently giving away yards.  Norfleet never had return opportunities on punts, and the opposition very consistently had solid return opportunities on punts.  Special teams is an extremely important facet of the game.

Joined: 08/24/2011

MGoPoints: 652

readyourguard

January 8th, 2015 at 8:38 AM ^

How do Norfleet's return yards correlate to us using a spread punt formation? Are you saying he doesn't get many yards because teams use the spread against us? How do you know his return yards aren't subpar because he's not that great at returning kicks? Maybe, like a lot of our position groups, they were just not coached very well. Maybe our athletes just didn't give the blocking effort required to be successful. (I know that seems like the craziest notion ever. I mean...where's the proof that THAT'S ever been a valid concern?)

Joined: 08/21/2008

MGoPoints: 40986

LSAClassOf2000

January 8th, 2015 at 7:02 AM ^

If I recall, the Mathlete did the study you are discussing, although I think it might have been originally posted perhaps a cuple years ago when this first became a point of contention in threads (maybe even earlier, but it was a while back) and has been reposted occasionally ever since. It was a Weekly Six feature as well as a diary, I believe, so it should not be too hard to find. 

Joined: 01/07/2011

MGoPoints: 130612

Yeoman

January 8th, 2015 at 9:55 AM ^

One of the things I'm really curious about is the impact of Aussie punters. If it turns out to be true that the shield-punt is superior, how important is it to have a guy that can kick accurately and on the move?

Maybe we could find a way to separate the "rugby kicks" from the straight shotgun punts. Or maybe the threat of it is important on its own (remember M sending two punt returners back to defend against it?).

Another thing that might be useful is to look at the spectrum of returns, and not just averages. SC's write-up suggests that shield punts might give up more long returns because there's a single wave of coverage. Is it true, in practice? It hasn't been my impression; some data would be nice.

For as much interest as there's been on the topic around here, it seems to me there's a lot we don't know.

Joined: 06/08/2011

MGoPoints: 21390

MGoNukeE

January 8th, 2015 at 11:28 AM ^

The overall trend of punting is clear; punting is getting better, punt returns are getting worse. You can't claim that tactics used a decade ago are the reason why punting is getting better, particularly when the NFL does not see the same trend as the NCAA. So if it's not the shield punt, what else could lead to this difference? You yourself admit that about half of NCAA teams use shield punt.

Joined: 11/11/2009

MGoPoints: 3134

Yeoman

January 8th, 2015 at 12:14 PM ^

is a lazy argument.

The natural next step is to isolate the variable you think is responsible and see if the correlation you expect is really there.

---

And, FWIW, the very fact you mention that "punting is getting better" is a sign that something else has happened over time besides changes in tactics. The punters themselves have changed with time. Average punts (gross, not net) are much longer now than they were 20 years ago. 43 yards/kick was enough to lead the NFL in the early 90s--we've seen several kickers top 50 in the last few years. The ten longest averages in NFL history all happened in the last eight years; 33 of the top 34 happened this century.

Joined: 06/08/2011

MGoPoints: 21390

bacon

January 8th, 2015 at 12:45 AM ^

Dinosaur or spread punt?  it doesn't matter. I heard Harbaugh isn't even recruiting punters anymore, just using the scholarship on another 5-star recruit.  The offense will not be stopped, so punting will not be necessary.  In the rare cases when we don't convert 4th down, the defense will be so good that it won't be an issue.  

Joined: 01/04/2009

MGoPoints: 18646

falco_alba15

January 8th, 2015 at 7:04 AM ^

Actually, we did that during the RichRod years. The combined awfulness of our punters and place kickers led to some inexplicable dilemmas. It was...sad. Special teams and punting is a really effective way to re-establish ideal field position (provided the defense cooperates).



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Joined: 02/06/2013

MGoPoints: 776

BostonBlue41

January 8th, 2015 at 8:50 AM ^

Of all the inept things of the Hoke era this is probably the least important. Both punt styles work so long as there are 11 men on the field.

 

See what I did there...

Joined: 11/10/2013

MGoPoints: 277

kb

January 8th, 2015 at 9:33 AM ^

which punt style is used. The main thing you want to see is a punt going 40+ yards and no opportunity for a return. You can achieve this with dinosaur and spread punt. Because college players are less skilled than pros, college teams tend to use a spread punt to give the coverage team more time to get downfield. Pros tend to use a dinosaur punt because they are more skilled and dinosaur punt offers better protection. Pros would eat spread punts for lunch.

Joined: 10/31/2009

MGoPoints: 7151