Benchmark for Successful 2012 season

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July 3rd, 2012 at 11:26 AM
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Allin4Blue
Joined: 02/04/2012
MGoPoints: 530
Benchmark for Successful 2012 season

Well the board is slow and there really has not been much talk about football lately so wanted to hear some thoughts about the upcoming season.

What will be the Benchmark for a great season as far as wins are concerned? 9 wins is what most believe to be considered a successful year for Michigan.

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/7/3/3134381/2012-michigan-wol...

An 11 win season will be tough this year considering the strength of schedule. With the potential to play 5 top 25 teams and 4 of those away from Ann Arbor, losses may be all but inevitable.  What do you believe to be the key factors in a successful season?  How would you rank the importance of goals listed below.

1) Win B1G championship

2) Beat sparty

3) Beat Ohio

4) Beat Alabama

5) Beat Notre Dame

I believe that regardless of wins/losses to our rivals and Alabama, a B1G championship has to be the big goal.  I feel that sparty is a must win game over all of the other games because of obvious implications and protecting our home-field. Beating Ohio in Urban's first year would be huge as well.  Would you be happy if we lost to Sparty, OSU, and Alabama and still won the big ten?

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July 3rd, 2012 at 11:30 AM | I think it's always more (Score:5 Normal)
sylvanialax17
Joined: 12/21/2009
MGoPoints: 5

I think it's always more important to beat Ohio then Sparty. Flip those two and that's a fair order.

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:34 AM | This is probably the only (Score:5 Normal)
Allin4Blue
Joined: 02/04/2012
MGoPoints: 530

This is probably the only year in my existence that I want to beat Sparty more than Ohio.  I'm not sure I can handle another loss to sparty.  But beating Urban in his first year would be nice!

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:47 AM | I'm with you (Score:5 Normal)
andrewG
andrewG's picture
Joined: 10/20/2010
MGoPoints: 973

If we were only to beat State or Ohio, I'd actually rather it be State this year. I know a lot of people feel differently, and I understand why, but that damn streak needs to end. I have too many Spartans in my family; the holidays are miserable.

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:54 AM | If (Score:1 Normal)
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2795

M does not beat State this year, it is nearly irrational to still maintain that Ohio is the more important rivalry at this point.  If they beat M for 5 straight years, still maintaining that Ohio means more goes from self-confident truth to unsupportable elitist rhetoric that acts an excuse as to why State beats our ass every year if anything.  M is a true up and comer right now, with NC aspirations in its sight, but not this year.  This year is the year to win state even if you don't win much else.  That is a really important game this year.

July 3rd, 2012 at 12:42 PM | Upvote (Score:2 Normal)
MichiganTeacher
Joined: 10/06/2011
MGoPoints: 272

I'd upvote you if I could. Beating Sparty is the most important single game objective this year. Over time, of course beating Ohio remains number one. But not this year, not with the way the schedule breaks down, not with the streak Sparty has on us, not when we're on the verge of putting them back in their recruiting place (weeds). I get that Hoke has to say Beat Ohio in his call-out meeting openers. That's the institutional rallying cry. But you've got to take care of the little things in order to have a shot at the big things, and Sparty is a little thing that must be taken care of before it becomes a big thing. Also, our B1G championship goal hinges much more on the Sparty game than any other game this year.

Physics teacher in NY.

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:52 AM | Seconded.  I always would (Score:2 Normal)
a2_electricboogaloo
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Joined: 04/21/2011
MGoPoints: 4033

Seconded.  I always would rather beat Ohio than Sparty, but this year is different.  We've lost four years in a row to them, which is just unacceptable.  Also (for slightly more selfish reasons), This year being my senior year if we lost to them, we'd be winless against them in my tenure as a student at Michigan.

USING GRATUITOUS AMOUNTS OF CAPS LOCK SINCE APRIL 2011

July 3rd, 2012 at 1:50 PM | I'm a freshman, so hopefully (Score:3 Normal)
althegreat23
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Joined: 05/30/2011
MGoPoints: 1235

I'm a freshman, so hopefully we can start my tenure off with the first of four straight wins over Sparty.

"A Michigan Man will coach a Michigan Team"

July 3rd, 2012 at 2:22 PM | I enjoyed 5 straight wins (Score:2)
andrewG
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Joined: 10/20/2010
MGoPoints: 973

I enjoyed 5 straight wins over State while I was in college (2002-2006) and it was glorious. Hopefully you get the same experience.

July 3rd, 2012 at 4:06 PM | 2001 was my first year.  DAMN (Score:2 Normal)
Mtruck
Joined: 09/21/2010
MGoPoints: 108

2001 was my first year.  DAMN YOU STADIUM CLOCK OPERATOR!!!!

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:30 AM | 9 wins is what I consider (Score:3 Normal)
Litt1e Rhino
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Joined: 08/02/2009
MGoPoints: 712

9 wins is what I consider successful this year.
Beat Ohio
Beat Sparty
Beat Norte dame
Then bama

HAIL!

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:34 AM | You have it exact. (Score:2)
MattisonMan
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Joined: 01/29/2010
MGoPoints: 1197

You have it exact.

-Hail-
 
July 3rd, 2012 at 11:53 AM | And to those putting Sparty (Score:5 Normal)
MattisonMan
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Joined: 01/29/2010
MGoPoints: 1197

And to those putting Sparty above - keep in mind that this is Urban's first venture into 'the game'. It is of the utmost importance that we give him a proper welcome. More Cooper, less Tressel.

-Hail-
 
July 4th, 2012 at 11:50 AM | Proper initiation and national view (Score:1)
markinmsp
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Joined: 10/18/2011
MGoPoints: 499

 Agree initiate Meyer right,… WITH A LOSS! Too much importance is being paid to lil’ brother. Hey, he won a few in off-years, big deal and let it go! It still isn’t the rivalry that OSU is or even ND in my book. They have national implications for recruiting and marketing. (Does anyone really care or even know most years if Okla State beat Oklahoma? But they do know who won the Oklahoma-Texas game and up until recently the Oklahoma-Nebraska game. Same with us.)

 I am not living MI area anymore so look at it more from a national view. (As in which games they will show out here on the west coast. /s)

 So my list is with 9 wins: 1) Beat Ohio, 2) B1G champs, 3) Beat Alabama, 4) Beat ND, 5) Beat MSU

                                          

July 3rd, 2012 at 4:18 PM | Anything wrong with saying (Score:1)
GoWings2008
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Joined: 01/26/2011
MGoPoints: 1466

Anything wrong with saying that beating Sparty is JUST as important as beating ohio?  I mean, we always put beating ohio as the primary goal, but obviously this year the stars should be aligned to start up the yearly dominance over Sparty and put them back in their place, as previously mentioned, in the weeds. 

Its really easy for us to tell other sparty fans that they're just not the rivalry they want to be, on the same level as ohio.  HOWEVA, its difficult over the span of a 4 yr losing streak.  I cannot and will not put a win over sparty as MORE important than over ohio, but saying that its just as important is fair...especially considering the court of public opinion.  Given that sparty went to the first B1G championship game over UM, I'd say a win over them helps enable one of the other main goals, winning a conference championship.

The Team, The Team, The Team

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:33 AM | 9 wins should be attainable. (Score:5 Normal)
Swazi
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Joined: 08/13/2010
MGoPoints: 2558

9 wins should be attainable.  Beat Ohio of course is tops.  Then Sparty.  Then Bama.  Then the Irish.

If you need drugs to be a good writer, you're not a good writer.

-Rod Serling

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:33 AM | Beat Ohio Beat State Beat (Score:4 Normal)
Robo
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Joined: 05/12/2009
MGoPoints: 368

Beat Ohio

Beat State

Beat Alabama

Beat Notre Dame

 

However, if we beat Alabama we should be able to beat ND.  If we beat Bama and lose to ND it might look like a fluke victory (which it might well be...but still. fuck the SEC)

Nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes...and fuck Ohio.

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:34 AM | I could accept ... (Score:4 Normal)
jmdblue
Joined: 12/01/2010
MGoPoints: 652

I could accept 4 losses, but I want a beatdown on both ohio and sparty.    The future is so shockingly bright that the thought of 4 losses isn't even very painful.

We're gonna play with toughness, we're gonna be responsible and we're gonna play with toughness.  This is Michigan.

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:35 AM | Beat Sparty (I know, I know - (Score:1 Overrated)
sheepman
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Joined: 02/05/2009
MGoPoints: 1828

Beat Sparty (I know, I know - this will be the top for this year ONLY)

 

Win Big 10

Beat Ohio

Beat Notre Dame

Win at least 9 games

Hang with Bama - winning not a necessity for a successful season.

 

"Are you Bluish? You don't look Bluish..."

July 3rd, 2012 at 9:45 PM | Final score of 2013 BCS (Score:1)
russale2012
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Joined: 11/30/2011
MGoPoints: 2672

Final score of 2013 BCS National Championship game:

Michigan:     56

USC:             -7

 

It's been a lot. Its been a roller coaster that for some reason seemed like it would never get good. But you know what? We kept fighting. It's like that old saying goes, "Those Who Stay Will Be Champions." -David Molk

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:38 AM | 1. Beat Ohio 2. Beat State 3. (Score:1)
jpepper23
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Joined: 10/08/2010
MGoPoints: 366

1. Beat Ohio

2. Beat State

3. Win the B10

.

5. Alabama and ND

 

I'll be happy if we take care of the first 3. Beating Alabama and ND, while important, would just be the icing on a very delicious cake.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:40 AM | 1. Beat Ohio 1a. Win BIG (Score:3 Normal)
DrewGOBLUE
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Joined: 12/03/2011
MGoPoints: 203

1. Beat Ohio

1a. Win BIG

If Ann Arbor is a whore, why didn't you get in?

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:43 AM | Keys to a successful year: (Score:5 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 6784

1. Have fun

2. Make new friends

3. Learn life lessons

Seriously, though, beating OSU is always the number one priority, and there is no such thing as a truly successful year at Michigan that doesn't include that.  That point made, I want to see Michigan's returning players continue to improve.  This schedule this year is too tough to match last year's record given the loses of Martin, Molk, RVB, Hemingway, etc.  The team is also a couple of years away from not having any holes (knock on wood).  The most we can realistically hope for, in a general sense, is to see evidence of hard work, pride, and great coaching on the field.  Sounds corny, but we havn't always seen that in the last four years (as much as it pains me to say that)...Winning all of the home games is also a realistic goal, IMO, and Michigan should always be a tough out. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:40 AM | 1. Win 14 (Score:5 Normal)
Bryan
Bryan's picture
Joined: 07/10/2009
MGoPoints: 8093

2. Lose 0



3. ???



4. Profit

I have a Fandom Endurance III merit badge

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:42 AM | To think that the MSU game is (Score:5 Normal)
Mr. Rager
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Joined: 11/16/2011
MGoPoints: 761

To think that the MSU game is a bigger game than THE GAME shows what type of fan you really are, either:

A) New

B) In a family full of sparty's

The Game is The Game, man.  Although the Sparty game is big this year, it will NEVER hold more importance than The Game.  

"to make a complete evaluation off video w/o seeing guys in-person - I don't believe that at all." - Josh Helmholdt

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:57 AM | Disagree.  The Game is always (Score:1 Normal)
CLord
Joined: 09/11/2011
MGoPoints: 540

Disagree.  The Game is always important.  The Game is huge.  But that doesn't mean that another game on the schedule in a certain year can't reach the same level of importance or even surpass it.  The fact that Ohio is in the other division facilitates this. 

Which is preferable? Beat Ohio and lose to Sparty for 5th year in a row and miss the BiG Championship, or beat Sparty, win BiG, but lose to Ohio.

I'll take the BiG championship and ending a 4 game skid.  Last year, since we had lost so many in a row to Ohio, I'd take the Ohio win over a BiG championship, just to end the skid in The Game.

Unlike Sparty, who obsesses about UM and only UM, I'd like to think that, as big as The Game is, it is not our only obsession.  Championships are.

July 3rd, 2012 at 1:46 PM | I follow your first two (Score:1)
Mr. Rager
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Joined: 11/16/2011
MGoPoints: 761

I follow your first two paragraphs but the last two are much weaker arguments.

Your first two paragraphs are also based on the assumption that "If Sparty beats us, that means they are good enough to not lose more than 1 B1G game, and represent our division in the Championship".  While that is a valid assumption, that is not 100% fact.

The game is the game and that will never change.   If both games were in Ann Arbor this year - The Game would have much higher ticket prices on the secondary market - because more people care about that game than Sparty.  

 

"to make a complete evaluation off video w/o seeing guys in-person - I don't believe that at all." - Josh Helmholdt

July 3rd, 2012 at 1:52 PM | Disagree with your (Score:4 Normal)
grumbler
Joined: 08/17/2011
MGoPoints: 132

Disagree with your disagreement.  Winning The Game is the obsession.  Saying that "it is not our only obsession" is absurd  - look up the meaning of "obse4ssion" before arguing for multiple obsessions.

The Big Ten title is goal #1 for the team, and so it is goal #1 for me as well.  If we can do that and beat Sparty as well, then fine.  If we have to lose to Sparty to win the Big Ten, then I'll take that.  If the choice comes down to winning the Big Ten and then either beating Sparty or Ohio, I'll take beating Ohio.

The only reason I even care all that much about the MSU game is because it is part of the path to the Big Ten Championship.  If I lived in Michigan, I might care more (though I grew up there and didn't care much then, either).

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:57 AM | Let's just hope we don't have (Score:1)
Allin4Blue
Joined: 02/04/2012
MGoPoints: 530

Let's just hope we don't have to decide and we win them both.  Losing to either one of them makes me unhappy for an entire year.  And yes...too many spartys around me!  I am tired of hearing them run their mouths!

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:58 AM | What is B?  final answer (Score:1)
robbyt003
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Joined: 10/25/2010
MGoPoints: 2593

What is B?  final answer

“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing” - Bo Schembechler

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:42 AM | When you hear da crunch, you're dere... (Score:5 Normal)
Class of 1817
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Joined: 06/23/2011
MGoPoints: 272

Get your ass to Indy--

Get your ass to Indy--

Get your ass to Indy--

...We'll re-evaluate the goals then.

"The Artes, The Scientia, The Veritas."

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:44 AM | ok (Score:1)
snowcrash
Joined: 07/22/2008
MGoPoints: 1569

9 regular season wins is a good benchmark. 8-4 with a bowl win over a crummy team would be a bit of a disappointment. I agree that of the 5 goals you listed, winning the conference is most important but I would change the order of the games. If I could guarantee a win in just one of those, I would pick Alabama because beating them would make the whole country sit up and take notice, and possibly be a big boost to our national recruiting, especially in the south. Next I would pick OSU only because it's Meyer's first year and we don't want him to pick up the "inevitable winner" aura that Tressel had. Next, MSU because of the losing streak although we are already outrecruiting them and should be getting the better of them in a year or two in any case. Losing on the road to ND would not be a big deal at this point unless it's a blowout.

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:47 AM | In order of (Score:4 Normal)
AmaizeingBlue
Joined: 09/01/2010
MGoPoints: 1347

In order of importance

Beat Ohio

Beat Sparty

Beat Nebraska

Beat all other Legend division opponents

Beat Notre Dame and Alabama.

 

I think that whoever wins the game against State will be representing the Legends in Indy.  

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:45 AM | In the spirit of considering (Score:3 Normal)
SoFlaWolverine
SoFlaWolverine's picture
Joined: 07/08/2011
MGoPoints: 366

In the spirit of considering a B1G championship the goal of the season, the Michigan State game is pretty obviously the most important this year. It's at home and a win puts us in great position in our division, not to mention the need to end this unprecedented 4-year run of theirs. I don't think Iowa or Nebraska will be able to get up to 6 or 7 B1G wins to challenge for the division, so the head-to-head tiebraker between us and Sparty may very well come into play.

Denard is my homeboy.

University of Michigan Class of 2014

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:50 AM | Beat Sparty far and away (Score:2)
AA2Denver
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Joined: 02/01/2011
MGoPoints: 396

Beat Sparty far and away would be my #1 hope this season. I f-ing hate those bastards. /jk

The schedule is rediculously hard and I think 9 wins will be difficult but doable. 

I can't wait!

-----------------

Screw Lance.

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:49 AM | Win for Michigan, Denard and the seniors (Score:4 Normal)
markusr2007
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Joined: 10/21/2008
MGoPoints: 3423

I really want Denard to go out on a high note his senior year.

Winning at ND, MSU and at Ohio would be a great storybook ending for that kid.

 

 

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:50 AM | After last year's man handling (Score:4 Normal)
ChelseaRick
Joined: 02/28/2012
MGoPoints: 34

I have to put beating sparty at #1

Winning the B1G should be #1 but I want so bad to beat sparty (this year only) - #2

Then you have to beat your arch rival - OSU #3

Then setting the tone for the season by having a good showing at Jerryworld being #4

ND #5 - to hell with Notre Dame

 

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:51 AM | Alabama sucks (Score:-1 Flamebait)
July 3rd, 2012 at 12:00 PM | When you're Michigan, when (Score:5 Normal)
State Street
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Joined: 07/09/2011
MGoPoints: 1117

When you're Michigan, when you're coming off an 11 win season, when you return one of the best players in the game.

Any game is "winnable."

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:53 AM | B1G Championship AND National Championship... (Score:4 Normal)
CasBMW
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Joined: 07/01/2011
MGoPoints: 78

Go big fella's . Go Big. Said it once. One more time for the hearing impaired.

Michigan will finish 14-0!!

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:56 AM | I think beating Ohio is (Score:5 Normal)
bluetell
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Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 4770

I think beating Ohio is bigger than beating MSU because beating Ohio will cement the fact that Michigan is atop the Big Ten. If MSU beats us, nothing will happen. No one takes MSU seriously outside of MSU and if they beat us...they'll still only get a lot of 3* recruits from the midwest and they'll continue to be infinitely annoying.

If Ohio beats us, then everyone will declare Urban the King Of The Big Ten and will declare us to be second rate to them and that will probably have a large effect on our national perception for the next few years

So always, beat Ohio. (But shutting State up would sure be nice too)

Rudy watches inspirational movies about Shawn Hunwick

 

July 3rd, 2012 at 2:08 PM | This. Sparty clucking is (Score:2)
wile_e8
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Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2505

This. Sparty clucking is annoying, but everyone knows where that is going once the recruiting dividends start paying off. The Ohio game has the potential to set the tone for a new era in the rivalry.

July 3rd, 2012 at 8:01 PM | Strongly disagree (Score:1)
MichiganTeacher
Joined: 10/06/2011
MGoPoints: 272

It is not set in stone that M>Sparty in football. 4 years is a long time. It's already historically significant. If we want to keep these four years a historically significant anomaly rather than a historically significant turning of the tide, we need to beat Sparty. People who take things for granted because "that's the way it's always been" end up getting crushed. Despite the doucheness, Dantonio is a very good football coach. He's not as good as Hoke, and I do think he'll eventually leave MSU as a loser in this rivalry. But it's not a given, and if we lose this year, that will give Dantonio a recruiting boost, and that in turn will keep him around for at least a few more years, during which anything can happen.

Urban, on the other hand, is going to struggle in his first year in the B1G, just like Pelini and Paterno before him in their first years. Remember last year pre-season there were many (a plurality of the media, it seemed to me) who picked Nebraska to win or at least be in the B1G championship. This year, if not for the ban, I'm sure they'd be doing the same thing with Ohio. But they won't/wouldn't come close. Even if he does beat us, the B1G championship will be far more influenced by the M-Sparty game.

Physics teacher in NY.

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:57 AM | In theory (Score:5 Normal)
CalicoChampionWest
Joined: 07/03/2012
MGoPoints: 5

Say we beat Alabama. Wouldn't the hype surrounding the rest of the season, and thus our expectations for all upcoming games, rise substantially?

 

July 3rd, 2012 at 12:07 PM | Yep (Score:2 Normal)
AmaizeingBlue
Joined: 09/01/2010
MGoPoints: 1347

If we beat Alabama and Denard has a good/great game(which would have to happen if we actually do be 'bama) the media will be talking about Denard winning the heisman and it will put Michigan in Nat'l Championship talks.  

July 3rd, 2012 at 11:59 AM | There is only one (Score:-1 Overrated)
July 3rd, 2012 at 12:06 PM | Division first, then rivalries (Score:1)
michfan4borw
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Joined: 12/11/2009
MGoPoints: 711

Prioritizing the division would be my approach on this topic, because as Hoke emphasizes--the Big Ten title is THE GOAL for every season.  We don't get to the BTCG w/o beating Sparty this year in 2012.  I suppose beating Nebraska is important by the logic also, but I'm cautiously optimistic (based on the suprising way in which we won that game in 2011) about the game there.

In the more long-term future, I think Hoke will field a much more dominant team over Sparty.  When we start to regularly win the division, I'll probably put tOSU higher. Until that time, my two cents on 2012 priorities are:

Big Ten title

Beat Sparty

Beat Nebraska

Beat tOSU (also, isn't Ohio banned from the BTCG this season?)

 Beat ND

Beat Alabama

Every man at some point is gonna lose a battle. He's gonna fight and he's gonna lose. But what makes him a man, is that in the midst of that battle he does not lose himself. This game is not over, this battle is not over. So let's hear it .

July 3rd, 2012 at 12:00 PM | Win the B1G Championship. A (Score:3 Insightful)
MosherJordan
Joined: 01/10/2011
MGoPoints: 243

Win the B1G Championship. A loss to Ohio is never savory, but I think if you ask Hoke, he'll say winning the B1G is always priority number one. It's very concievable that we could lose to 'bama and ND, beat Sparty, lose to Ohio, and find ourselves in the B1G against Penn State or Wisconsin (head to head win v Sparty giving us the Legends division edge). Win that and we'd be 10-3 and headed to the Rose bowl. 

That's a far more likely scenario than beating Ohio and losing to Sparty, and I'd lock it in today if I could.

July 3rd, 2012 at 12:04 PM | I would put "Beat Nebraska" (Score:3 Normal)
artds
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Joined: 09/04/2009
MGoPoints: 2790

I would put "Beat Nebraska" on the list. I see Nebraska becoming our #2 conference rival in the coming years behind OSU. They're a comparable program to us in terms of success, prestige, the type of players they recruit, etc., and the fact that we're in the same division is huge, which isn't the case with OSU. I envision many UM-Nebraska battles for the legends division over the course of the next decade.

Every time an MGoBoard poster complains about a thread topic, God kills a baby panda.

July 3rd, 2012 at 12:20 PM | would have to disagree (Score:1 Normal)
BeatOSU52
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Joined: 11/14/2011
MGoPoints: 596

MSU will forever be Michigan's second biggest non-conference rival.  It is even ranked as the number 2 biggest rivalry in the B1G according to the BTN.  Our fans just don't get along.  And lets be honest, (hate saying this) Dantonio appears to be building a consistant solid program up there in East Lansing.  While I expect a drop in level of play for MSU in the near future with Hoke and Meyer cleaning up in recruiting, he has just put together back to back solid seasons for MSU.  Something a Sparty coach hasn't done for decades. 

We're not teaching them about sports, we're teaching them about life!

July 3rd, 2012 at 1:04 PM | Hmmm. I don't think I'd call (Score:4 Normal)
artds
artds's picture
Joined: 09/04/2009
MGoPoints: 2790

Hmmm. I don't think I'd call 2 winning seasons in a row "consistent" or  "solid". That might be a big deal by MSU standards I guess. They're 1 and 4 in bowls games under their current coach and have still never even played in a BCS bowl, much less won one, as Hoke did his first year.

I see no reason to expect Sparty to be a bigger impediment to us winning the Legends division than Nebraska in the coming years.

Every time an MGoBoard poster complains about a thread topic, God kills a baby panda.

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