This is exactly what I want to hear at 8AM on a Saturday morning. Buckling early morning! Ohio beating Sparty and a couple of top notch linebackers will force me to have strong victorius drinks on Sunday.
Ben Gedeon Update from Tremendous
With the way the roster has been over the past few years, some depth at several positions on the defense would be nice. Taking 3 LBs would be great, especially with the guys we're recruiting.
he's a beast and partly because his last name reminds of the berries in Pokemon. I'm thinking the Leven Berry would take the place of the Bitter Berry or the Mint Berry. Of course, I'm referring to the Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal generation. Anything past that just got stupid.
I was hoping Michigan would take Leviticus Payne just for his name. I think he is a middle of the road 3 star but his name alone should be worth a scholarship.
There is a medication called 'Geodon' that is used to treat schizophrenia too.
When I first heard his name I thought I heard Ben Gideon and immediately thought of the bible distributing evangelical group called the Gideons.
with Levenberry, Daniels and McCray all interested in going blue. With McCray set to announce next week, and the rumors that if/when Ohio offers that he would go in that direction (dad played there, etc), I wonder if bringing Gedeon in this weekend is a bit of "strategery" by the staff.
I'd love to see Levenberry, Daniels and Gedeon/McCray in this class. Sounds like there's a chance Gedeon could speed up the process for all involved if McCray hasn't done that already. Buckle up.
Would be interesting to know if he's changing his announcement date. Might be further evidence that he was trying to entice an offer out of Ohio. And if he is changing his date, that could impact the looming LB avalanche...
All three links I can find about this are behind paywalls... anyone have the scoop?
He's not having a press conference. He's going to let the coaches know the day before, and just let it get announced the next day. I guess if you are behind enemy lines, you probably need to adjust your game plan if you're going to the enemy.
They mentioned a scouting report. Was it pretty positive?
reminded of Tackleberry, which makes me think of Bubba Smith, which makes me wish he had not played for Sparty, which reminds me shortly after he left, Sparty became what they are today, which makes me smile and thank Bo, which, upon contemplation makes me realize that I am happy when we have lots of LBs!
"criminally under-rated" when every service has him as a four-star. I've drooled all over my breakfast.
shouldn't necessarily discredit the 4 opinions of 3 well-established services (I don't count ESPN as serious service).
I think Tremendous is probably referring to Rivals not having him in the top 200. I agree that he should be rated significantly higher, but I don't run a service or even have a blog. Maybe if I stay at a Holiday Inn Express....
That is what they call Gedeon. Great all around athlete and a real high character kid with top academics. Sounds like a perfect Hoke/Mattison recruit. He may be underrated because he does not play against high end competition.
he is on campus this weekend, correct??
to post immediately?
Very good problem to have: too many 4 star LBs interested in us, only 3 schollies.
Would love to see three of these guys in maize and blue.
I've watched almost every game he's played here in Hudson and I had the pleasure of coaching his older brother in youth football about 12 years ago. Tremendous is 100% accurate when he calls him "criminally underrated". Remember...he's the team's star running back too and gets 25+ carries in some games which has to take away a bit from his LB play just a bit. When he's described as "high character" that too is an understatement as Ben gets terrific grades and is very well known, liked and respected in the community.
FWIW our little high school was also the home of Bil Nagy who just finished up his rookie season with the Cowboys after graduating from Wisconsin.
Don't forget to tell Tremendous to say hi for you.
I have a problem with people saying he plays against poor competition. Ohio football ALL OVER THE STATE is unmatched by every state excluding only California, Texas, Florida, and maybe Pensylvania. The best teams in Michigan would have a very difficult time competing in division III in Ohio (Ohio has 6 division with 1 being the largest).
I do have a question though... How did you get so many negative points?
HAHA, from one Rich Rod conversation last year. I have never been a fan, garduated under grad from MArshall, so I hated him long before he came to UM. Pretty much it.
panthers5, I went to high school at Sylvania Southview (Allen Gant's HS) when they won the state championship in Diviision II. You are definitely correct that Ohio is very competitive from the bottom to the top and the communities genuinely care about their respective high school teams, but to say that the best teams in the state of Michigan would not be able to compete in Division III in Ohio is just silly.
On the Southview team that won the state championship a few years ago, there were just a handful of players besides Allen Gant who were talented enough to go to FBS schools, and even these were MAC schools. And then you see Cass Tech this past season with multiple players who were higher rated than all of the players on that Southview team a few years ago.
Did I say the couldn't compete in d III? No, I said they would have trouble with the best teams in D III.
I consider St. Mary's to be one of the better teams in the state, they played Columbus Desales this year, not like they destroyed them. Desales was a good D4 program. I would love to see St. Marys go play a school like Youngstown Mooney who won d 3 and has d1 players all over the list. I would bet that every player that graduated from Mooney is playing somewhere (d1 to d3). The difference in Cass Tech, who has plenty of d1 talent, and a school like Mooney is they have a well established program. They run it nearly like a collee program.
I played at Ironton, one of the top d4 program in the state, and St. Marys on an every year basis (or Cass Tech) would have a difficult time beating them. My sophomore year we had Joason Harmon (MSU), Reggie Arden (Ohio State), Roman Frye (Clemson), and our FB Jhn Henery went to Ohio University as did one of our WR. This is d4 football I am tlaking about.
I saw Novi CC, St. Marys, Cass, and Brother Rice this season, they would all have trouble winning it in d3, let alone trying to compete in the greater catholic league in d1.
YEa in and year out the best teams in Michigan would be lucky to compete in d1 in Ohio.
Could you imagine a school like Avondale, Rochester, or Oxford trying to go play in the same division as St. Ignatsus, Elder, St. X, Moller, Solon, etc? They would absolutly get destroyed. Michigan football from an overall standpoint sucks. There are 5-10 teams in the state that could compete in the division they would have to play in-in Ohio.
I've always wondered how states get like this in certain sports. I'd venture to say thing are exactly the opposite in basketball where Michigan and Indiana are waaay better than Ohio.
You'd argue that Michigan hs basketball is better then Ohio? Maybe 10-20 years ago. Again being in Oakland Co outside of Clarkston and Pontiac these schools are average at best.
I've seen little d3 schools in Ohio that would beat the piss out of Rochester, Adams, Andover, Avaondale, Troy, etc. LeBron played for Akron SVSM, a d3 school. I couldn't imagine the tiny UP schools having to face off against Akron SVSM. OJ Mayo and Bill Walker played d3 basketball in Ohio.
Ohio basketball now is >Michigan top to bottom and it isn't close.
I've been out of the state for awhile, but while the Oakland county schools were OK (I remember Adams, Andover, Avandale (sans their state title run) and Troy being pretty piss poor). Like you say Clarkston and Pontiac were the best, but I also remember Flint and Detroit (PSL) schools being quite good. While the coaching in the PSL was suspect, they were always producing talent.
Indiana is still better than both states though. Do I still have that much right?
Ummm, I would argue that Ohio is as good as Indiana. Way better I wouldn't think so. Ohio has been very solid in producing top talent the past decade (cough LeBron).
Doing a quick search on Rivals's database from 2010-2012, Ohio has produced 2 5-star and 3 4-star players over this span. Over the same span, Indiana's produced 6 5-stars (7 if you count McGary) and 6 4-stars. Meanwhile, the state of Michigan clocked a respectable 9 4-star prospects (no 5-stars).
I can't be bothered to go further back in the database, but the recent facts support the idea of Indiana being the top talent-producing state in the region, with Ohio and Michigan being on more equal footing.
Over the last decade or so, Georgia has been at least = or > Ohio in terms of top end talent, and a lot better than Pennsylvania. Some of it's geography, but the top 50 or 75 players in Georgia are predominantly going to SEC and top ACC schools like FSU, Miami, NC and Clemson (and GA Tech obvs.). There's a decided lack of MAC & Big East type signees most years (looking at you Pennsylvania).
Back of the napkin analysis to substantiate what I've sensed anectdotally: Look at Scout rankings since 2005. Georgia has had at least 20 players ranked 4-star or better every year, and as high as 30 (2010). Only Ohio's 2012 class got up to 20 4-stars or better over that time. Pennsylvania's high water mark is 17. Georgia has nearly doubled Pennsylvania's 4-Star/5-Star output over that span by Scout's measure, and is on average producing 6.5 more 4* or better players a year than Ohio over the last 8 years.
|Scout 4* or Greater|
State of Florida gets most of the pub in the Southeast as fertile recruiting grounds (and rightly so), but Georgia is loaded. UGA and Ga Tech have to battle Bama, Auburn, Tennessee, South Carolina, UF, etc. to keep players in state.
What am I supposed to be taking away from this? Ok so the top end talent is comparable. Top end talent alone doesn't make the state a better quality producing state. The top 10 in Ohio and Michigan are probably interchangeable, but the culture surrounding football in Ohio v Michigan and the seriousness of it is completly different. I have been around Oakland Co. long enough to see the difference. Yes the majority of private schools in the area are very respeced programs that could compete in Ohio, but I seriously doubt they compete for state titles in D1 playing the likes of Iggy, Elder, St. X, Moller, Colerain, St. Eds every week.
The difference in a states like Ohio and Michigan is the level of community support, the seriousness of the athletes, and talent from 20-100 is far better in Ohio. I have seen schools that have 1500-2000 kids on friday nights with bleachers a 1/4 full. The population in Ironton, OH is just over 11,000. Every friday night there is at minimum 5-8k in the stands. In a little tiny rust belt appalachian city in my four years in playing hs football we produced probably 10 d1 kids and a number of 1-aa and d2/d3/naia.
The talent from #20-300 is far better in Ohio.
that this claim "Ohio football ALL OVER THE STATE is unmatched by every state excluding only California, Texas, Florida, and maybe Pensylvania" is flawed in my opinion. Georgia being the most obvious omission. My reply was down a ways so you may have took it as a reply to another of your posts. I said nothing about Michigan vs Ohio. It's obvious talent is deeper and programs richer in Ohio, if that's the comparison.
Yeah it was mostly a Michigan v Ohio comparison. I would still argue that the mid level talent in Ohio is far better then Georgia. Top end talent maybe not, but #20-200 you are going to get a lot more quality then Ohio. Hence my example of my little rust belt town that produced 10 d1 players in four years, kids live and breath football in every small town in Ohio. I have lived in North Carolina and there has been some top comparable talent, but outside of the larger cities the small town football in North Carolina was a joke.
That was kind of my point about Michigan, outside of a handful of very quality programs, Michigans big schools (Adams, Rochester, etc) would get embarassed by schools with 200-240 boys like Ironton, OH. To even think that Adams, Rochester, etc would have to play in d1 in Ohio would make me shutter at how badly they would get destroyed by the big boys.
maybe Ohio has the edge. I don't know of any ratings services that ranked kids in a state beyond the first couple of hundred.
Here are 2*s and above from both states 2005 - 2012 from Rivals. If we consider 2s and 3s mid-level talent, Georgia still comes out on top according to these rankings: 1,479 for GA to 1,313 to Ohio. If we consider only 2*s mid level talent, then Ohio has the edge, 920 to 859.
So there goes an hour of data pulling I'll never get back, but I was curious.
This was established last week on Rivals.
I don't know if the coaches would be willing to take 4 LBs after the haul we had in the last class. But what an enviable position to be in, if UM has 4 stud LBs who are interested and only 3 spots. Things could be alot worse. We could have 4 slots and only 3 stud LBs interested. If Gedeon plays RB at his school as well, could the staff recruit him as an ATH not as a LB?
I'd actually be in favor of taking O'Daniel as a running back if we get all four LBs.
Just taking all four guys and figure it out later.
These aren't guys you pass up on, sorry.
I don't know if that's true. They're good players, but you need good players at every position. Just because we're in on 4 top LBs right now, doesn't mean we won't be in on a similarly rated CB or DT or WR in 6 months, and I don't know if we fill his spot early by taking a fourth LB a year after taking 4 LBs, and in a class that won't be that big.
We have probably 9 spots. Do we want four of them going to LBs?
And we actually do need depth at LB.
At the expense of what position? This is silly talk. You can't take everyone.
And I don't see this at the expense of any positions.
I understand people will disagree with this, but it's just my opinion on the matter, which we all have .. I wouldn't turn down any of these four, that's me.
It's always at the expense of other positions. If you take one more LB it means you take one less something else. Simple math.
You see 10 spots, but I don't know if we get there. Either way, if I had 10 spots to fill, I see one WR, one TE (because the coaches think so), one RB, two DL, three LBs, one safety and one CB. That's IF we get to 10, and that doesn't take a third WR or a second QB, both of which we need more than a fourth LB.
So, in your opinion, which on that list would you give up to take the 4th LB? Or better question - what would your position break down look like if we have 10 spots left?
EDIT: In fact, I'd take it a step further. As long as we got two good LB commits, at least one of whom could play SAM, I'd prefer we only take two. I'd rather build up our depth at DT with another guy there.
I really want 2 WRs, a top RB, and top notch DT .... that's all I really want. If you can't get a top RB, seriously, we have enough 2nd tier backs. To be honest, I don't think we need another TE, but that's me. Oh, and I believe that McCray could easily move to DE, so there's that. Considering our LB depth, especially by the time these recruits hit campus, I can't see how we turn away talent like this. This is different that the OL -- we're turning down Pocic because we have 5 OLs committed. We don't have any LBs right now, just an idea of where and who might commit. This means, you don't turn away McCray and/or Gedeon because you MIGHT get Levenberry and/or O'Daniel two/three months from now, that doesn't make any sense. What if you say YES to McCray and NO to Gedeon, Gedeon picks Ohio State, and for Christmas, McCray gets an offer to Ohio State ... and flips. Now you don't have either one. And to be honest with you, the real reason why I think we should try and take all four, is because I honestly think McCray will get offered by Ohio State at the 11th hour, and I can't say for certain what he'd do with that, so I'd like my ass covered for when/if that happens. If it doesn't happen, we have 4 top notch LBs that could move around the field .... if it does, we take the other three. It's like a chess game.
I generally agree here. The thing we have to watch out for is making sure that we've got the best players possible. Sure, we need to have a minimum number of guys that can play at each position, but if we can snag better players at LB than at DT, I'd rather have an extra LB who is a potential star than a DT who will never be more than a role player.
As far as his ratings go, watching his highlights you can see his speed and athleticism, and it's hard to believe he's a low 4*. Not only does he have size and speed that could make hime a tackling machine at LB, but it appears he'd be amazing in coverage as well.
I really think McCray is a DE. I'd love to get Gedeon, O'Daniel, and Levenberry at LB.
Holy smokes that's some impressive tape. Two-way player, smart, instinctive. That's the type of guy who will haunt us for years as a Buckeye if he is not a Wolverine. Hope we close him this weekend. At this point we're just sorting through more jewels than we know what to do with.
Taking all 4 and figuring it out later! Isn't that a little SECish?
Not sure if serious, but there's a pretty big difference between "take all 4 and see what positions players shake out at" and "take all 4 and see if someone needs to have his scholarship yanked".
Take McCray as a DE because apparently he has the size to grow into one. Take Gedeon and Levenberry as our 2 LB's. O'Daniel isn't announcing until January so you assume the class will be filled by then. If for some reason it isn't then you see if we can take him.
We'll see how it plays out, but it does make some sense.
That's why I said " a little SECish" not full blown Sabanesque. It's feasible we could still have spots open in January, we had slots left open on NSD this year. But if O'Daniel isn't announcing until January, then I say take Gedeon (assuming he commits), McCray, and Levenberry. If spots are open and O'Daniel wants to come play for UM, then by all accounts take all four. But with the staff switching Beyer to D-line then maybe 4 LBs is doable in this class.
I definitely would like to see Michigan add Gedeon, Levenberry, O'Daniel, & McCray. In fact, at this point, I would rather have them and not give a spot to Pocic.
So does the outlook now not look as good with McCray or what's the deal there?
Rivals doesn't list McCray having an offer from tsiO, State, or ND. Kind of odd in my opinion,that UM would be the only school out of the four to offer. But hey if the staff thinks he can play, then obviously those three are missing something Hoke and company are not. If he doesn't hold an offer from tsiO yet, then I'm assuming he'll pick one up if he commits to UM.
i just hope we can land two of three of these great LBS. all four would be great but i would hate to strike out .