Agreed. The best will play, but for all of Shane's potential, he's hardly a polished QB at this point. It's not like he lit up his high school competition every game. I expect him to become a good college QB, but not as a true freshman.
Bellomy is/was injured
Tate Forcier got off to a fast start as a Freshman, reeling off four wins in a row and then going to OT in East Lansing, in large part because he had been an early enrollee. I think it is a very big deal if you are a QB, to early enroll. That's a lot of practice time, including the spring game.
I can't recall what happened with Chad Henne. Was he an e.e.?
Going way back, I remember what a shock it was, when the decision was made to start Rick Leach. The guy he replaced, Mark Elzinga, was a very good upper classman. It was a big surprise, for a guy who had only been on campus for a few weeks.
Chad Henne wasn't even first string until Matt Gutierrez turned up hurt (I forget, what was it?) right before the first game of the year. That was a rather memorable morning, with word of Henne's start zipping through the tailgates west of the Stadium.
Henne, and for that matter Rick Leach, disprove the assertion earlier in the thread that Morris won't start because an "old-fashioned" coach is coaching. The best player will play.
It is simply the fact that the best available player next year will be the senior playmaker Devin Gardner. But if Morris beats him in practice, Morris will be the starter.
Than the offense that Bo and his staff ran. No comparison. Had Gutierrez not been hurt Henne would not have seen the field except in garbage time. When they started Henne the coaching staff stated that they had greatly "simplified" the offense. In Henne's 2nd season the coaches were able to return to the "full" offense. If Morris proves more effective in the Borges offense than Gardner, or Bellomy then he will start. Based on Borges's own comments on the learning curve for "any" QB in the first year I predict a red short for Shane.
Was peeing blood all week, didn't practice much at all
(didn't hear it from me)
His ego certainly took a blow
Somebody made this same comment as the first post in this thread...
...and it is now deleted.
Deleted? Why? Is it wrong to assume that he may have been a little mentally shaky in practice after that game? He is a freshman after all...
Glad to here that, I was a little worried after last week they just dropped him down to fourth string. Not really but I felt bad for him.
If Gardner continues to get better into next season will be an overall better QB than Denard...His height helps he see over the line better, he is more accurate than denard down the field, and he seems to have a been feel for taking off when there is nothing there instead of only designed runs!
Yes and no, he's a totally different quarterback, and we shouldnt make judgements or expectations based on one performance
Against Minnesota, in fact.
Then again, making (positive) judgments about Devin now seems no less ridiculous than making (negative) judgments after a couple of spring games and a few snaps last year. I always found the "no one here is allowed to discuss whether Devin might be a better QB than Denard" thing annoying. My own view is that I don't have enough information on Devin to know, but it's a message board, so what's the harm in discussing?
Your position is a completely reasonable one, but my issue with these discussions has always been that few people are willing to stop at "we just do not have enough information".
Rather, they insist on drawing conclusions based on whatever limited data exists. I suppose there is no real harm in that, but it is not all that productive either.
I hope that with the increase in numbers of offensive linemen on scholarship that the spring game is once again an actual game. I would really be interested in seeing Gardner and Bellomy play and see where they are after spring practice.
But honestly, what IS productive on a message board? Nothing we say on these boards has any productive value to them. That's why we go to them while we should be working!
Yeah, productive was a poor word choice on my part. Interesting would have been a better one. There have been some genuinely interesting speculation and infomation thrown out here from time to time and some thoughtful debates. But not going all psychotic over the same limited info.
But yes, that is the internets.
Strong statement. Too small a sample size to say anything for sure, IMO. But even if DG develops into a better passer, not sure DG could ever be the playmaker Denard is even if he had 4 more years to develop at that position at Michigan
Sure, if you define "playmaker" as "runner." But if it includes plays like the TD pass to Dileo, that's another story. I'm not sure Denard would have made that play. For a guy as agile as he is, he's made surprisingly few unscripted TD passes.
I define it as making a play when you need one. As an OSU fan, I know all too well how Denard is in elite company in this category. And I don't just mean breaking long runs. We've all seen Denard make a bug time throw against much better opponents than Minnesota. The game against Michigan State this year comes to mind as his most recent game breaking pass.
Denard is the best player at the position, but under varying definitions you seem to be correct. Devin isn't as fast as Denard, but his feel for the pocket and ability to judge whether to take off running or whether to make a pass downfield seems much better than Denard. If Denard ran from the pocket as much as Devin he would be terrifying to defenses, but that is not how he plays.
FWIW Devin does the "scramble around and heave it" well, but some of the stuff that worked against Minnesota won't work against more talented teams.
Day light savings time hasn't effected the time stamp on comments does anyone know why? Or if it will change?
Incorrect. You're just seeing into the future. Don't tell me how it goes. I love surprises.
While we've all learned better than to fully trust anything Brady Hoke says about injuries I don't really feel deceived in this case. It was well known and documented that Gardner was getting the majority of snaps at QB this week while Denard recovered. Whether or not Russ is actually injured didn't really occur to me as being urgent until Jack Kennedy went in to help run out the clock. At that point I would guess that Bellomy does have a very real injury of some kind becuase I don't see why you wouldn't trust the guy to hand off four times in a row. *shrug*
I'm guessing that Denard was okayed to play on Saturday (thus he was dressed, etc) but that the plan was to keep him out unless absolutely necessary. Like most injuries nerve conditions recover more with time and the risk of further injuring Denard's throwing arm when you're going to win either way is silly. My guess is that if the offense remained stagnant or Gardner got hurt, then we might've seen Denard... I would hope that the plan is similar for Northwestern and Iowa as well because a healthy Denard against ohio is a beautiful thing.
There's no question in my mind that Denard Robinson remains the #1 QB here. His feet help cover up a lot of our blocking issues and his passing game is on par with Devin's. Minnesota caveats abound and stuff... That being said I think Devin is the heir apparent at QB and will probably make a brilliant 'transition' QB between the spread offense we've run with Dilithium and the vertical passing schemes we'll being installing soon. He's mobile enough to buy time and grab a touchdown here and there. He's tall enough to have great field vision and he's strong enough to heave the ball 50+ yards down field. Defenses don't have to play his legs the way they have Denards, but if our recieving core holds up their end things should be okay in 2013.
Ssshhhhhh......don't tell anyone.
Kennedy's a senior and bellomy is not.
Probably best, last chance to get him on field.
You guys are fucking ridiculous.
What does Hoke, Borges or ANYONE have to gain by lying about this injury?
It doesn't change the fact that the kid played like SHIT vs. Nebraska. It happened, we move on.
It doesn't take any heat off of Bellomy, Borges or Hoke. Injured or not, Bellomy was awful, and if he was THAT hurt he wouldn't have played vs. Nebraska and wouldn't have travelled to Minnesota. So it is what it is, why does their have to be a motive or a lie?
Lastly, if the coaches were trying to take the heat off of Bellomy, they'd let the topic die and fade away. You wouldn't bring up an injury (true or not) and bring even more attention to the kid if the goal is to take heat off of him.
Lastly, if the coaches were trying to take the heat off of Bellomy, they'd let the topic die and fade away.
The topic won't "die and fade away" on its own, particularly with Gardner starting against Minnesota and Kennedy coming in later in the game.
Call me naive -- or stupid as was done in a thread several weeks ago -- but I'm inclined to trust the coaches. I'd stake the integrity of Coach Hoke against anyone's on this board, including mine.
Are the coaches perfect? No. Are they intentionally dishonest? Categorically no.
Not entirely relevant but I was wondering if anyone knew what scout released about devin gardners eligibility? I saw it on twitter but didn't see the details.
I was wondering why they still had DG in on the next to last possession, as I thought it would be a good time to get Bellomy some game experience. Then, when they put Kennedy in for the last possession, I thought "what the hell?". So, an injury makes sense to me.
It makes sense considering they went with Kennedy rather than Bellomy late in the game. It would have been a perfect time to get Bellomy back out there to gain a little confidence against Minnesota, but they went with Jack instead.
and I don't think I have a right as a Michigan graduate and fan to know the inside skinny on who's injured and who's not.
Section 1 is absolutely right here: "Winning has a funny way of making a coach right."
Bo was legendarily paranoid and frequently downright dickish when it came to outsiders trying to glean info about the inner workings of the team during the season, an attitude that his successors maintained with such rigor that the term "Fort Schembechler" came about. But since Bo won many more games than he lost, there was no real squawking. If RR had a similar winning percentage, his lack of guile in public relations would be seen as charming country naiveté.
If we'd gone 8-5 last year with losses to ND, OSU, and VaTech—all of which were very tight games—the heat on Hoke this year would be appreciably greater. He got himself a huge amount of insulation with that 11-2 record.
...............insulation from RR's talent!
1. Bellomy didn't really have much of a chance. I am betting he wouldn't have looked nearly as bad against Mini-soda.
2. I like the return of "The Fort." I like "coach-speak." I like limited access to players for those "impartial" newspaper writers. Carty's "expose" was bad, and the freep hatchet job was worse. I am glad that Hoke can mislead the MSM with a straight face. Let them be real journalists for a change.
3. I'm happy that Michigan appears to have a viable option behind Denard for the rest of the year. You never know how long it takes a "boo-boo" to heal. Also, Devin is a better pocket passer because he can see over the line of scrimmage. I wouldn't mind seeing both play in a game, just to see what the other team does.
Bellomy would have looked terrible against minnesota too. There was an unblocked defender on nearly every play and Devin did a phenomenal job of evading and throwing good passes. There's no way in hell that Bellomy pulls that off. Secondly, the wrs have consistently dropped Bellomy's passes. That's probably because they float for so long. Devin Gardner is 100x the qb that Bellomy is right now. All the Bellomy fans need to suck it up right now.
Call me crazy but sometimes I have wondered if the wrong guy didn't switch to receiver. Coming in Denard was the obvious QB but with how the offense has run and how everything has turned out I wonder if DG may not have been the better QB choice with Denard doing ninja-like things. I don't know, I just watch the guy Saturday do some really good things without hardly practicing. This is all in hindsight obviously as the decision pre-season/Al Borges was obvious but I think it's an interesting question.
I don't know. I'd have to think that if Denard was told that he'd be switching to WR that he may have jumped to the pros rather than sticking around for another year.
I'm just going to say that if you judged Nick Sheridan exclusively off his performance vs Minnesota, you'd not have an accurate baseline of how good he was (obviously Gardner is way better than Sheridan, but still).
The problem with that idea is DR earned his spot at QB. He came here to play QB, he stayed here to play QB (about as huge a coup for Hoke as any recruit to date - given the timing) and he did the work where others balked - he bought in and led. Both DG and DR are standup guys, but DR prior to Borges was on pace to historical records (and still is for some.) You can't switch a guy to WR when he's potentially the best rushing QB the game has ever seen...ever.
Clearly DG is a better fit for Borges - but that is more a statement of the problem IMO as it is an interesting question.
Your comment does make me wonder (as does Bellomy's ability to chase down P.J. Smith at the 4 yard line saving a TD - keeping the game within reach late (that showed character and speed - the guy can play))... whether Bellomy could have switched to WR...he certainly wouldn't have hurt the production of the unit as whole. I think he could play over others seeing time on the field.
To say DG is a better fit at QB ultimately just says to me that Borges is a one way street. You win with people. I think Hoke understands that well and is getting the most from his staff and the players he prepares in practice. I also think he'd admit the DG to WR move was wrong in hindsight but that's just not what good coaches do.
Slow down. Gardner played one game. Against Minnesota. And you are ready to annoint him starting QB based on this alone?
(well, you did ask us to say it)
from Jack Kennedy as our QB
When we see JDK and Rey together on the field again they gonna drop 100 on somebody
Think about how that would go down with the team. Bellomy himself would never live it down. The truth would leak. May be minor, but he's got some injury.
Pooped his pants. Hoke and company now have to rebuild the goo that once was Bellomy's confidence.