The two seem to have a good relationship. Fish says he's very happy to see Michigan doing well again. I definitely have mixed feelings about him - I think his firing was warranted, but I don't think he's a bad guy, just one who couldn't keep firm enough control.
Beilein chats with Steve Fisher
U-M is slated to honor Fisher’s 1989 national championship team during a home game Saturday against Minnesota. Fisher led the Wolverines as head coach from 1989 to 1997, racking up a national title, two runner-up finishes, six NCAA tournament appearances and an NIT championship.
“I knew he couldn’t make it on Saturday because he has a game (San Diego State plays at Fresno State), but I just wanted to make sure he knew that if there was anyone to represent him (at Saturday’s ceremony), we’d welcome them, love to have them,” Beilein said following his Monday night radio show.
Beilein is such a great man and coach.
Awesome and totally classy thank god I have tickets to that game that should b a beautiful sight. How great would it b to play SDSU in the elite eight or final four!
It's interesting that this event was scheduled on a night that San Diego State has a game. I'm sure that our athletic department knew that in advance and I think it was probably a smart move to pick a night when both teams play. Honoring Fisher at Crisler would have been awkward - or at least put him in the awkward position where he'd have to decide whether to show up or not.
The "SDSU has a game" excuse probably works out well for everyone.
I don't know about that. Most college basketball teams play on Saturday, so it's no great coincidence.
I'm not sure it would have been realistic to ever ask an active coach to fly 2,000+ miles in the middle of the season just for a ceremony anyway.
Fair point. I'm not sure whey they'd need to do a Saturday - and I see many games at Crisler this year when SDSU wasn't playing - but that's probably a rough midseason trip. It's also probably hard to justify leaving your team in the middle of a season to be honored by a different program on the other side of the country.
Isn't it more likely they simply picked the last home game prior to senior day to make it as close as possible to the 25th anniversary of the tournament?
honoring Fisher. I know a lot of people still support Fish and think he had nothing to do with the Ed Martin scandal, but I think Fisher could at least be charged with negligence in overseeing the program. There had to have been rumors floating around about Martin and he was still given way too much access to the program.
I know that coaches can't prevent 100% of the shady stuff that goes on behind the scenes, but the Martin stuff was pretty egregious.
I always liked Steve Fischer and I still do. Maybe was frustrated with him from time to time but I liked the guy.
They should definitely schedule a home and home meeting would b a great rivalry
Why would someone neg this post?
1. They don't believe San Diego State should be in a conversation about great Michigan rivalries.
2. They don't appreciate blasphemous misspelling of the word "be."
3. They don't appreciate that you had tooky breath while posting.
4. To get to the other side.
It's probably #2
What is the first rule about mgopoints again?
Very nice to see. I can't agree more with your view of Fisher. The magnitude of the scandal was too big for him to survive here but glad to see him on his feet elsewhere. Also, the fact that Jerry Dutcher is still with him, shows what he must think of Steve. Awfully long time to be a top assistant in college basketball.
He's clearly a good coach, too. He's had a great run at San Diego State. In an alternate universe where Fisher puts a stop to Ed Martin before the rollover accident can ever happen, he'd probably still be on our sidelines and we'd look at him as a Bo-like legend.
Having said that, I think Beilein's an even better coach.
The thing with Fisher, he's a great coach who really hits his potential when he's in an environment that isn't Michigan. He was too engrained in that system, and probably would never have been the head coach had the perfect storm not happened in the '89 tournament. Frieder leaves after the season, Fisher either probably goes with him or is on some other trajectory that ends with him being a head coach at a school like SDSU. There was no way Bo was keeping a Frieder guy if he had a choice about it.
At SDSU, Fisher had no pressure, no history, no baggage, just a clean slate and relatively little attention. He quietly built a winner--he didn't inherit one at its peak and then have to keep it going--at any cost.
At Michigan, he was put in the pressure cooker, with unrealistic expectations after a once-in-a-lifetime tournament run, and a booster who had already made inroads in the program. Recipe for disaster. He was overmatched, and there was only so far "Aw, shucks" Indiana charm can take you. Nice guy, great coach, wrong job.
While I completely agree that he would likely never received the role had he not gone undefeated in his first 6 games, I don't think you can say he was in the wrong place.
He was a great coach for us, on the basketball stuff, and frankly had a temperament similar to Beilein (which was refreshing after Frieder). His "look the other way" attitide about the players being taken care of likely would have happened anywhere.
Does anyone outside the program have the kind of access now, under Beilein, that Martin had under Fisher and Frieder? Does Beilein have friends that hang out with the players and have free run of the locker room? And who he met whle on a visit to a prospect's home?
I don't actually know the answer to any of that but I strongly suspect you're wrong that it could have happened just as easily under any head coach.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I think a different head coach definitely could have set some better standards and turned the program in a cleaner direction. (WWBD?)
What I meant was that Fisher would have been in a similar situation anywhere (UM/MSU/etc) if the environment around him was similar. My guess is that he keeps pretty clean now based on his history. But without that history, he just wasn't a guy who emphasizes the non-basketball part.
I guess I'm not quite clear on what you're saying. Martin wasn't just a feature of the environment. Frieder meets Martin (at Joubert's home, if memory serves) when he was recruiting Joubert, Frieder offers Joubert's coach an assistant job, Martin starts coming to Michigan games, Watson invites him to practice, gets him tickets and access to the locker room. Frieder eventually leaves (one step ahead of Bo's posse, by some accounts) and Martin begins, allegedly, cultivating a relationship with his replacement, offering him gifts.
You would have to be quite unimaginably thick not to be able to figure out what was going on, and I refuse to believe that anyone involved is that stupid. "Looking the other way" seems inadequate as a description of any of this. This isn't an out-of-control booster; this is corruption right in the heart of the program.
If it could have happened anywhere, why hasn't there been even a whiff of the same thing happening during Fisher's time at SDSU? Why didnt the same thing happen at Michigan State, given the fact they were in the same backyard of the Detroit/SE Michigan high school basketball scene that Michigan was?
The key is while it could happen anywhere, it didn't to the same degree it did under Frieder, Fisher, and Ellerbe's watch in Ann Arbor. The program let in the wrong people during the 80s, and a dysfunctional athletic department let these bad apples run absolutely rampant during the 90s. Fisher covered up a lot of sins with the midwestern charm routine, when in reality he was complicit to the largest financial scandal (until Reggie Bush, IIRC) in the history of the NCAA. This was corruption and dysfunction of the highest degree, and we were lucky to get away with the sanctions we got. If they had kept digging into the 80s, there probably wouldn't be an '89 championship celebration this weekend, sorry to say.
I mostly agree with what you've had to say on the subject, but I wonder about the uniqueness. It happens in a lot of places--Tim Floyd is a really good parallel, with Ronald Guillory in the Martin role, with free access to the locker room and lounge areas. I was at Illinois during the Mike White/Lou Henson/Jimmy Collins era and it was pretty much impossible not to know what was going on. Most schools are lucky enough not to have law enforcement get involved, and without subpoenas there's room for some smidgeon of doubt if you're a loyal enough fan to avoid the obvious.
The "it could happen anywhere" defense is bull. You don't have to let Ed Martin into your locker room and you can tell him where to stuff his gifts when he offers them (I'm talking about the ones he allegedly offered to the coaches, not the players). You can walk away from players when you find out they're for sale; you can decide you're not going to recruit high schools where the coaches want compensation for access; you can raise an eyebrow at an assistant coach with a great record of recruiting known cesspools; you don't have to give coaching jobs to Perry Watson or Jimmy Collins and you don't have to keep them when you find out what they're up to. But Michigan's far from the only school to have chosen the low road.
It's Brian Dutcher.
Wow totally derped that one. Good looking.
Brian Dutcher (head coach in waiting)
Mark Fisher (UM Class of '01) is an assistant under his dad.
Can the team wear those beautiful 1989 throwbacks they pulled out for the 20th in 2009?
These were fantastic. By far my favorite throwbacks Basketball or Football have worn. Maybe because they were actually worn at some point? Haha
Ooh, I loved those. They should definitely bring them back.
Where you can purchase these throwback shorts? You'd be my hero.
I saw them once, but I don't think they were ever widely available.
I will say, though, as awesome as they are, the design works way better as the 80s style nuthuggers...
I'm honestly not a huge fan of them but I appreciate that they're legit throwbacks and not "throwbacks", so I'd be cool with it. Wish teams did it more often, us included.
Just don't bring back the "real" shorts they wore. Those nut huggers will NEVER be back in style.
During the show, Beilein told a full room of supporters at Pizza House, “I think (Fisher) was as excited as we were that we beat Michigan State (on Sunday).”
This was actually a nice, refreshing piece in a way as it is great to hear the the two coaches do chat and that Fisher still seems to follow his old program as much as he can, which is pretty cool. Despite the scandals, the sense of history in the basketball program is basically as overarching as in the football program and it is neat to see the minds behind two successful periods in Michigan basketball talking when they can.
Was he like, I finally cleaned your mess up and have a prominent national program ?
Do those Michigan fans still live in the past and never get over shit.
From my understanding, Fisher inherited the mess.
And then what happened? Did he clean up the mess? No, he actually made it worse. Your understanding is incomplete at best.
My point was that it wasn't all of Fisher's mess that Coach B has cleaned up.
Apparently you don't understand that he was a part of making that mess. Fisher was an assistant under Frieder from (IIRC) 1982. Ed Martin's links to the program went back to roughly the same period. It was well known players were all of the sudden driving around Ann Arbor in fancy cars and sporting fur-trimmed jackets under Freder's watch...
I don't disagree with you about the responsiblity of all the coaches at the time but the timeline, as it respects Fisher, is a bit of a coincidence. Martin's relationship with Perry Watson predated either's relationship with Michigan and his initial access to the program was through Watson.
Oh, no, I'm not saying Fisher brought Martin into the mix in the 80s--far from it. Of course, the Martin link is through Perry Watson/Southwestern/the general Detroit basketball scene, which in turn links to Michigan through Bill Frieder's maniacal (if not unhealthy) attitude about recruiting. Uncle Ed was the guy for Detroit high school talent, and just so happened to favor Michigan, even if Southwestern guys didn't end up in Ann Arbor in between Joubert and Jalen. The point is that Fisher was no stranger to Martin and his access to the program during the Frieder years.
The universe would explode if Fisher ever came back to Crisler. Would just be an amazing sight to see.
Very cool the 1989 team will be honored. You know, the team that won a national championship. The team that doesn't have a player who publicly pleads and begs for attention about what happened over 20 years ago.
The university comes to them. Speaks volumes.
It's very nice though seeing the severed ties being mended with past coaches and players from said-eras.
People just have to let it go and move on with their lives. Not only was that stuff 20+ years ago, but we're in a great position right now as a program. Let's grow up and keep it moving.
It's interesting that though both we and SDSU are currently successful, we do it in opposite ways. They're all about having great athletes who defend and score inside, but none of them can shoot worth a damn. That's pretty much a mirror of most of Beilein's tenure here.
A funhouse mirror?
To hell with Steve Fisher. He was head coach, and it happened under his watch. It was his responsibility. Remember Jim Tressel and what everyone on this board had to say about him? Now let's multiply that by around ten thousand. I'm pissed every time I see him here in San Diego.
And don't try and play the history card on me. I was there during those years and was running around the streets with everyone else when we won those tournament games. Of course, none of us knew at the time that our team payroll was higher than that of the Pistons.
Now that I have vented, let the flaming commence . . .
Who takes things way too personally. It's not like Fisher intentionally tried to ruin the Michigan basketball program. Most of that stuff happened over 20 years ago. Give it a rest.
He is accountabile for his actions, just like anyone else. I doubt Jim Tressel intentionally tried to ruin the OSU football prgram either, but I have a hard tiime believing that you and all of the other Fisher apoligists were so forgiving toward him.
He is the only one who never paid any price whatesoever for the Fab 5 scandal. He brought discgrace to the school that is only now clearing.
As far as giving it a rest, it isn't like I ever bring this matter up. But if he is going to be mentioned as part of the program again, I will feel free to speak my mind, If you don't like that, give that a rest.
I'd be see it as perfectly appropriate if he were given a lifetime ban from the school. You know, the same school that disassociated itself with the players involved, and took down their banners, and removed all pictures of them from the university.
And spare me the personal "you're just an angry person" attacks. They don't strengthen your argument.
"the only one who never paid any price whatesoever"
Really? What price did Perry Watson pay, the man directly responsible for Martin's access to the program? He went straight from Michigan assistant to head coach at Detroit. What price did Frieder pay? At least Fisher got fired and missed one year of coaching (not that he didn't deserve it, that's not what I'm saying at all).
It's the reason this crap never stops--the coaches never pay any real price no matter what they pull. Hell, even Dave Bliss found his way back into coaching eventually (if briefly, the leopard couldn't change his spots and he wound up even getting suspended from high school coaching).
Beilein is the man, man
Man, I agree. What a classy thing to do. For him to personally reach out to Fish is above and beyond, but it really shows that Beilein just wants the best for MICHIGAN. Which is what it's all about. Go Blue!
...if we're honoring the '89 team, is Bill Frieder.
Who? Isn't the celebration for Michigan men?
Could we have one story without the fucking soapbox speeches? Good lord I was 12 in 1989.
I was 4 years old. However, my dad speaks really fondly about the 89 team. He didn't care for the Fab Five but Rice was a sacred name in my household. It's good to see that team get the recognition as they are often overlooked in favor of the Fab Five. Is there a list somewhere of the team members that will be there for the game?
The championship team and the fab5 were special in there own ways. The fab five pissed off a lot of white kids parents which made them that much better. Watching bill Walton squirm and talk trash about them pushed this point. I understand the ramifications of taking money but when you're a kid they were like rockstars. Even alumnus were sending our boys racist letters. It was a great time to be on the right side of things.