does NOT compare to Richrod.
Let the bloody LC/RR battle re-enactment begin!
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does NOT compare to Richrod.
Let the bloody LC/RR battle re-enactment begin!
there's a strong argument that Late Carr directly precipitated RichRod.
2005 and 2007 Carr teams were damn lucky to not be under .500. Damn lucky.
2006 turned out to be the wonderful anomoly in that little stretch of Michigan history.
Give me a break. 2005 we lost 4 games by 4 points or less in a season riddled with injuries.
2007 we were 9-4.
I'll give you that we underperformed in both seasons, and had one of our programs (neigh the sports') most embarrassing losses, but we were a long way from "damn lucky to not be under .500".
There's no doubt that Carr's later years showed signs of slippage, but your comment just reeks of unnecessary spite and is just factually not true.
Henne saved us from the bowl streak ending a year early.
We went 9-4 in 2007, and that was with Henne injured for much of the season. To say we were on the brink of bowl ineligibility is a major reach.
After reading this, I for one wholeheartedly support the notion of yanking out about 5,000 seats from the student section. That way maybe more of the kids who want to be there will get the tickets and the section will be full.
A sense of entitlement isn't going to make people rally to your cause. We all understand that you guys don't like the new rules, but you have to admit that the students brought it upon themselves. Now it is up to you to figure out a way to fix it. And the amount of whining and crying about it probably isn't the solution.
If the main point of your arguement is "We have 20K students showing up so stop changing the rules or less will come to games" seems strange. If that is the case and students stop coming because of the new rules, why not just make the student section smaller and open more seats to all the other fans? Let's be honest here, Michigan stadium is going to sell out whether the students come or not and a regular seat is more than a students. They would get more money by doing this.
My main question would be why are all these students on this blog so up in arms about it? To hear them say it, each of them are the ones who arrive on time for every game. If that's the case they will be rewarded for that, not punished. It will be all those other students (who most of them seem to be critical of in their posts) who will suffer as a result of this.
I am graduating but mostly think it is a stupid reason in principle:
1) A true GA is unfair to the upperclassmen who theoritically had to sit higher up regardless of how early they should up.
2) Any time you create a system that involves waiting in line, which is just a complete waste of time, when alternatives exist, you have likely failed
3) Drunk sorority girls will likely still find ways to game the system
4) I don't understand why they can't find ways to award people for showing up early based on when their tickets are scanned
Also, to the whole "the AD would get more money by cutting the student section because they are priced below market value", that is true, but this (allegedly) amateur athletics. Do you know what else is priced below market value? The "pay" for the athletes on the field.
Zing!
the system."
I agree, some drunken sorority girls have taken to wearing stealth cloaking devices to elude detection from stadium officials:
Or it didn't happen.
oy. The Michigan has only ugly women thing has got to die. You're killing me. Only I am allowed to critique my appearance. Well, since this is an anonymous blog, I guess you can, too. I'm just saying, a bunch of my sorority sisters, friends and acquaintances were pretty hot.
I'd have no problem vouching these girls were sitting with me the whole time.
I can see the situation happening where a few dedicated fans in a frat, sorority or any group of friends gets in early to get good seats. The seats around them fill up as other fans pile in. Half way through the first quarter a bunch of drunk stragglers roll in, find their friends, and squeeze their way into way better seats than those who arrived on time. The ushers will say "it's GA, not my problem" and those who showed up on time will have to stand in extremely crowded seats.
Isn't #4 exactly what GA is? Rewarding people with choice of seats for getting there first (i.e getting their tickets scanne)
Why not change some of the student section into a recent alumni section (<4yrs out)? Keep the ticket prices the same and tie it to the HAIL program in order to qualify for tickets. This would put an actual incentive to get points as part of HAIL and not lose the intensity the student section provides.
is honestly the best idea i have heard in a long time. People say cut dwn student section by 5k, and then you have the top 1250 HAIL leaders each year get reduced price tickets for four years, still by the student section to phase them out of being students.
I'm a student that doesn't show up on time to every game. I wake up and start drinking at 8 am, sometimes earlier, and walk to the game with tons of other students right before game time to walk in the stadium right around kickoff.
I've been to somewhere between 50 and 100 Michigan football games because my family had season tickets before I was a student. If showing up at kickoff means my seats are terrible now, I'll probably just go inside my house and watch us beat up Eastern Michigan on TV.
I can understand the new policy, but it's not going to help me or 90% of the students that I hang out with on Saturday mornings.
Obligatory bad-title comment.
Yes. Awful title. Sorority Gal here. I was all "woo-hoo! Finally someone is defending us!" and then....no.
You type well for a drunk sorority girl. The Michigan Difference, I suppose.
Good point. I guess I meant just the "sorority girl" part. Not drunk. The title of the thread led me to believe the subject matter was different. Also, I'm now old. So I guess I'm neither drunk, nor currently in a sorority, nor a girl. I'll go work on that first one.
You included a BCS bowl season with a win in the Sugar Bowl under Hoke as part of the dark era? Last year wasn't so bad either.
A diverse student body may have something to do with how many people show up, but it doesn't have anything to do with making it OK for sorority girls to show up drunk for only half of the game. No no, you're right. Uh, thank you drunk sorority girls for filling up space for half an hour?
...with Butterfield, although I am not an alumnus I think it is insane that so many kids fail to appear for so many games...if you don't want to go, that is fine by us, but do not expect the University to continue to keep your seat open...this isn't Ricky Bobby saving a seat for his drunk dad, there are thousands of people who would kill to have guaranteed seats like you youngsters currently have
if you aren't an alumnus I don't see how your opinion matters here...
yes, I am that guy.
love,
jdon
If you want to have a good seat, show up early. If you want to tailgate/party, well then you get to sit next to the drunk sorority girl who is only going to be there for half the game. What's the problem?
If you can convince her to go home with you for the second half, even less of a problem.
DB is missing a great marketing opportunity here. He can rebrand the upper bowl in the student section as the "You Get to Sit Next to Drunk Sorority Girls" section, and charge double for those tickets.
Brand-on, Dave.
If the issue is that kids get tickets who don't care that much about football or Michigan Football, then shrink the student section. I don't need to "be grateful that most of them still go," someone else will happily take their ticket. Sounds like we should treat them like Kanye West -"my presence is a present, kiss my ass." Nope.
And this is coming from a soon to be graduating student that believes students serve a vital role for crowd noise, especially with a non-student fan base that's reputation for sitting on its hands is not totally undeserved (except for in big games - UTL was equally as loud as any other stadium I've ever been to).
I am struggling to understand what exactly students are whining about. If you don't care about getting to the game early enough to get a good seat...then don't. But for the students who do care, it's a great opportunity to have a nice vantage point of the game.
Conclusion: nothing you said does anything to discredit or even remotely tell us why it's a bad idea to institute this policu
I think the issue is that it isn't that you now have to be on time to get a good seat, you're going to have to be at the gate 2 hours in advance for even somewhat important games. If you're there 30 minutes early, say hello to seats in the 50s. Now if you want to say that students who have so little going on in their lives that they can go 2 hours early to watch the band warm up are better fans, so be it. But there are others who, you know, do like to drink and don't want to sit outside/inside the stadium for hours waiting for something to happen.
More people are not going to show up. It will happen. What junior/senior wants to see Michigan v. Western from row 82 when the game will be over after the first quarter? Hell no, they're going to be drinking, partying, and watching the game in warmth in front of a 72 inch tv.
~Herm
I am disappointed in your lack of rage at students. I am also disappointed that I am now 100% sure you're not actually an old dude.
Bring a flask to the stadium, it's not that difficult.
Was unsure for a while, but something about that post made me think either upperclassman or recent grad.
Seriously? It took you until THAT post to realize he's not actually an old man? I thought better of you Michael.....you're slipping.
Personally I think it's WIAB/RDT in yet another persona.
Herm has the perspective of remembering when sell out crowds were the exception, not the norm. A lot of this is about the entitlement younger fans and Dave Brandon have about expecting 100,000+ crowds every game. One of these days the streak will end. Big deal.
Not in my lifetime. If I have to fundraise, buy unused tickets and pay homeless people to go to games that streak isn't ending.
They will never admit it though. If they are 95,000 in the stadium, they will announce 103,000. 2008 Northwestern didn't have 100,000 plus. It all about perception.
1995 Michigan-Purdue says "hi!"
As someone who sat through every moment of the 1995 Michigan-Purdue game... I will say there were 100K+ at the start of the game.
It had dwindled to about 30K by the end of the game though...
What if you're a med or law student who's drowning in school work or just a busy undergrad? I'd rather spend those 2 hours studying than waiting in line. I've been in GA lines at UNC bball games as a grad student and it's really silly to spend 6 hours at a game (half of which is waiting in lines). For those of you who think it will be a 30-45 minute wait, that's absurd. Imagine how long early students have to arrive for OSU games. But hey, a couple sorority girls came late to a game, let's screw all the dedicated students who have stuff to do before the game!
But it proves that you are not an old man Herm. Why the ruse?
Not herm responding bro. get urself straight. look at how the guy writes. he doesn't use abbreviations like "ur" or "lol" etc. The guy writes with punctuation, capital and lower case letters, but he doesn't seem to possess the grammar skills that a younger person should have. My grandparents write worse when they use a computer because they are not used to editing their work w/o paper and pencial.
Herm is my grandpa. No ruse.
This idea irritates me the most.
"Pshhh what upperclass Michigan student wants to watch their team play a Michigan directional school in Row 80 in September?" Seriously?
You're right. We should only expect students to show up for The Game. Or against a highly-ranked B1G school.* Is that where we're drawing the line? I mean, screw it. No more tickets to a student section, then. Buy individual tickets for games that you want at actual market value.
The student entitlement is ridiculous. Yes, we all love pregaming and want to sit in Row 1. But my god, it's your football team. Go watch the 6 home games you had last year. When did it become acceptable to be so cavalier about football indifference?
I graduated last year but I feel like Clint Eastwood. Rabble, rabble, rabble....
*BTW, more than 3,000 students didn't show up at all for the MSU game last year. Ridiculous.
I was not stating that seniors should automatically get row 1 seats. I'm pointing out the uncomfortable fact that there are going to be about 3,000 pimply-faced freshman in rows 1-15 for every minor game this year. I'm sorry, I like Michigan football. But I'm sure as hell not going to waste my Saturday watching warm-ups. There should be some reward for being a senior.
For every catty-sorority girl you guys mention, there are about 100 normal dudes who want to drink hard, party, then show up 20 minutes before the game and sit in the FRONT because they sat in the back for four years. Now all the benefits are going to go to those who LITERALLY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO THAN SIT FOR HOURS WAITING TO GET INTO A GAME. HOLY SHIT YOU ARE A BETTER FAN THAN ME. No.
95% of those "drunk dudes" you bitch about are there before the game starts, actually making noise and into the game.
Sorry if there is going to be some backlash that Timothy Greenman, a freshman from Potomac, Maryland who has never watched Michigan football in his life and is really just here for Ross, but doesn't have anything to do so he waits in line early... gets first row seats. That is just as much bullshit as some sorostitute taking the seats.
I know all of you will say it's not politically correct, but hell, I'd put the women in the endzones and the men on the sidelines. They don't even know what's going on anyways!
~Herm
Accidently pos'd you when I meant to neg you.
You're being a spoiled little fuck. You do realize that seniors are not entitled to rows 1-20, right? My senior year, just a couple years ago, I received tickets that were worse than my junior year.
Imagine your outrage then. YOU DON'T DESERVE TO SIT IN THE FRONT JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE A SENIOR you entitled brat.
This wouldn't even be a discussion if the current student body wasn't a complete embarrassment; re: on average 5,400 people don't show up.
Yeah, I went overboard, but people are really being idiots about this. Again, I disclaim that I was a student who actively wanted a general admission policy. Not so I could stand in line for hours to get the front row, but so I could stand comfortably in my seat, 20 minutes before kick and be able to yell and scream and jump during the game without my balls rubbing up against someone's ass because we were standings sideways because someone forced their way into our row in the third quarter.
Here's the thing. For 6/7 games, you'll be able to arrive 20 minutes before kick, have no line in front of you, and get seats in the 30s or 40s. It's not the end of the world. Also, seniors are acting like they were guaranteed to get row 2 if this didn't happen. Only, what, 100 people can be front row? And if you're in a group, then forget about it. Most seniors would have been around row 20 anyway. If they arrive 20 minutes before kick they have a chance to still get that seat. Or they show up 10 minutes earlier and get a better seat. Or they crush some Natty's brah.
You claim that people don't deserve to sit in the front row because they are seniors or grad students. Well what is the alternative? Does a freshman who has never been to a football game deserve to because they stood in line for a while? You would put them in the first row over someone who has paid for tickets and been to every single game for 6 straight years? I'd love to hear you explain why that is more fair.
What in tarnation? Sorostitute? women in the endzones? wow.
2005 graduate here - so I think that qualifies me as not some young punk! However, how can we sit here and talk about student entiltelment. Any student who wants to attend the game should be able to do so - and in my opinion it should be free! You can say what you want about the market, yada, yada - but since when does Michigan or the NCAA give a flying F about the market?
If we did student-athletes would get paid and the University would stop taking so much money from Michigan taxpayers. I'm fine with the system the way it is and people not showing up to games definitely sucks - but we all talk about student entitlement - and yes I do think that they are and should be entitled!
It's not that I hate the policy, its that I hate the policy changing right now when I was going to get good seats rather than the last three years where I had bad seats.
To be fair, we always had a large seating group and I think that contributed to our consistently bad seats.
[/inside_convo]
They should have announced but delayed the policy for two years so that current upperclassmen were not impacted. If you are an incoming freshman and it's the policy when you come in, you don't really care.
It would be reasonable to ask them to delay this for two years.
Assuming your geography based argument is correct, that still doesn't excuse students for showing up at halftime. They go to the school, they bought tickets, they should show up to support the team. If they're not interested they shouldn't by season tickets. This argument does nothing but support the reasoning for GA tickets. The kids that do care should be rewarded.
Cigol - I respect that you are trying to defend your brethren here, but you honestly aren't doing a very good job of it. Your arguments make it even stronger that this should be a meritocracy where the most passionate fans have the opportunity to get the best seats.
All you've really done is try to convince us why this policy had to be instituted in the first place (the students kind of suck).
I like the new rule. I got tired of having to walk in at Section 29, then move over to 26. Im just making the point as to why students dont care as much any more. "Not caring as much" is still nowhere near the justification to take tickets away from students so some Class of 78ers can sit on their seat cushions with wine teeth.
Also, by taking away student seats, youll go to a lottery system like Wisconsin, where the "drunk sorority girls" still get tickets and boot out some of the better student fans.
You get called out and then take a pot shot at alums.
Kids these days with their no respect, god damn Bieber music and autotuning...
"Not caring as much" isn't enough reason to take away tickets. "Not caring enough to F*CKING SHOW UP" is a damn good reason to take tickets away.
Greetings from Class of 81 and my wine-stained teeth.....
I'm struggling with your premis that football has been bad lately so we current students are less compelled to go to games. And that people from the Mesozoic era like me went to games cause we had Bo posters growing up.
Did you guys happen to notice that we HAVENT LOST A GAME AT HOME IN TWO FREAKING YEARS????? I know in my old age my memory is somewhat flawed but I sure dont remember that happened during my stay in Ann Arbor.
And we went to all the games and we got there on time.
The question I need answered is: What the f-ck else is there to do that could be anywhere near as important as attending a football game? Everyone knows that college is a lot of work. But Michigan games are the highlight of the week during football season. I could understand if we were talking about a different school with a lesser football atmosphere. But there is nothing like a Michigan game on a Saturday afternoon. Hell, I have friends who always talk about wanting to attend a game there - non-Michigan fans want to attend just to see the spectacle! And kids less than a mile away can't pull themselves away from whatever they are doing to get to a game on time?
Trust me on this one: You kids that are against this new plan (other than the seniors who are potentially losing great seats and actually arrive to games on time) will be kicking yourself in the nuts in 10 years when you realize how precious those Football Saturday experiences are to you.
We haven't played a great team at home in 2 years either. It's a cool streak, but I don't think we should be beating our chest about marquee victories over an ND team coming off of a loss to USF, an 6-6 MSU team who may or may not have fielded an offense, a 6-6 OSU team, and a fringe top 25 Northwestern. Those were all incredible games to witness as a Michigan fan, but its not exactly some unprecedent streak of Michigan home dominance.
to never experience a home loss to a 6-6 team. No one else on this board has had to suffer such a disappointment, why should you?
... at home for two years in a row. There is no excuse for half empty sections.
So basically, you're saying that the current students are fair-weather fans who don't care about their football team since they're attending Michigan because of its relative prestige compared to the mediocre schools that they would have otherwise attended.
You're also implying that attending a state university is somehow negative and you seem to believe that out-of-staters come from better states (or countries) than the state of Michigan (or the USA!).
The only thing I can say is... too bad that you and your ilk didn't get into your first choice college so that you can root for your "exciting" football teams wherever that may be....
Holmes?
Any bets this is a classic ad hominem fallacy?
1. How can you say that the 2011 season was "relatively dark for Michigan football." We had an awesome season, beat OSU to break a far-too-enduring streak of losses, and won a BCS game in exciting fashion.
2. I don't get the whole "geographic diversity" think, at least with respect to students from the US. I came to Michigan from NY knowing little about their football tradition. Coming to Michigan, I was basketball and hockey obsessed (NBA and NHL, respectively, not college), but I had little interest in football. It wasn't all that popular in NY in the mid-1990s. By the second game of the season, I was hooked and never missed (or came late to) a single home game for the next 4 years. The fact that Michigan has kids that did not grow up idolozing Bo, Woodson, Desmond and Tom Brady shouldn't make a difference past week 1.
3. Please don't ever lump Lloyd's tenure (during which we never had a losing season or missed a bowl) with RR's. Thanks. You may not remember this but late in Lloyd's tenure (the season before his last), we went into the Game undefeated and were a Shawn Crable late hit penalty away from playing in the National Championship Game.
The reference to Lloyd's late years is based, largely, on the The Horror. You can't deny it. There was slippage in the last few Carr years, notwithstanding the fact that Henne, Long, and Manningham hung on to keep up appearances.
If it makes you feel better, I laugh at the umbrage toward current students. I happened to be one of the students, back in the day, who sometimes slept until 1 or 2 pm because I was socializing or playing music or reading or watching movies or running around the arb until 4 in the morning. Regardless, it doesn't seem like too much for current students to have less than 20% of the stadium's capacity, including some of the worst seats, and to have a some relatively small percent of those seats empty in the lesser important games of the season. And the RR years cannot have helped.
Now, that does not mean the AD is wrong for going to GA and rewarding kids who come early or doing some other rewards program. But all the anger toward current students for not filling up their section to absolute capacity right at tipoff is goofy.
Its fine to not have football games as one of your priorities as a student. I don't think anyone criticizes that at all. What many of us have a problem with is those students that don't have football as a priority but buy tickets anyway and fail to use them or show up late. To be honest, its a slap in the face to a lot of us zealots who would die for those seats as such a low cost. If some students don't want to show up early or on time, that's totally cool. But don't expect to be treated as equals with students that live and breathe Michigan football. I think thats what many of us are saying.
I agree completely that students who show up late -- especially after the game starts -- shouldn't automatically get better seats than students who were there early. But this "slap in the face" thing, I mean, for some students Michigan football is a fun part of going to the school but they don't live and breathe it. I don't remember for sure, but I don't think students can even buy single game student section tickets. Some students want to go sometimes but not others, or for a half but not the whole game. It's frustrating for others that they have such good tickets and don't make use of them like devoted fans, but being jealous doesn't make anger a sensible or productive response. Part of being a student at UM is getting perks re: UM athletic games. The fact that worst seats in the student section are not always full is not intended as an insult to alumni (and others) who wish they could have those seats, it's just college kids making decisions. A few empty rows in one corner of the endzone isn't a crazy price to pay for being a college team.
but the main anger towards these people is that they show up late and expect you to move out of their seats. If you wanna show up late and go to row 90, that's fine I guess. Still makes the student section look bad. But don't show up in the 2nd quarter and act shocked and appalled that someone sat in your empty row 15 seat. Go to row 90
Too bad people can't bring in coolers with their own drinks anymore... that way the sorority girls could get drunk AT the game and be there on time.
We had this back in my freshman year of 1986, but they dropped it the next year. Of course, for the following three years we still managed to get stuff in and get to the game on time... but perhaps it's somehow totally different now.
Cigol makes some excellent points about how great the new policy is, and how only over-entitled non-fan students could whine if enough seats were moved from the student section to non-student seating that we reduced the absences at kickoff to 3,000 or so.
Real fans in the student body will get better seats, more real fans among the non-students will get seats period, a the only people who lose anything are (1) people who don't identify themselves as Michigan football fans and (2) people who identify themselves as Michigan football fans but won't deign to attend games (except as an afterthought) until the team proves it is worthy of their support (through multiple mega-winning seasons).
Conclusion: This is a great policy, and will be better when we get rid of some of the student seating (especially the high end zone seating that gets abandoned anyway).
You made great points, but no one will care. you have my sympathy.
As a student, I enjoyed the annual migration from meh seats to fantastic ones by the time I was in graduate school. I went to every game, and went on time (to the big games because they were big games, and to the laughers because I wanted to see it while it was still "a game"). By my last season as a student my friends and I had worked our way to great seats right behind the band.
With that background, I'm sympathetic to the folks grousing about the new GA policy. I'd typically be in my seat about 10 minutes before kickoff, and stayed for the duration unless it was a laugher. But in a very competitive grad school - and I worked my way through school, which made time very tight - I needed Saturday mornings to study.
My concern is that folks will now need to piss away an hour or more just to secure decent seats. Time is a valuable commodity to some segments of the student body, and this policy forces those students to choose between study and crappy seats.
Again, I've no dog in this fight as I'm not likely to be a student again. I also recognize that, unless things have changed very recently, seat assigments were often ignored anyway. But having been the beneficiary of the old policy and having been a good fan, I think reasonable folks can oppose this new policy.
But I think the percentage of people who are worried about the tradeoff of an hour in the stands or an hour STUDYING are pretty damn low.
I hear you regarding studying. But the bigger point is that for a larger percentage time is a valuable commodity. It seems that there's a presumption that a student's time has no value, but that varies from student to student. With a seat assignment, I can choose to visit friends, exercise, tailgate, etc. Another point is that the old system (at least back in the day) resulted in a group migration to better seats, with camaraderie developing with your fellow once-a-year nomads.
Here's a modest proposal: How about implementing two tiers of student tickets. If a student makes it to (e.g.,) 80% of the games on time (based on ticket scanning), they qualify for the lower section of the student section. If a student doesn't meet the threshold, they get booted to the upper section. And have ushers enforce the two sections. The size of the sections could be dictated by prior year's performance. All freshman go to the upper section to prove their commitment.
Seems like that would resolve some of the problem.
A: Don't give me the time argument. Everyone is busy. However, everyone also has the ability to set aside time before football games 7 times per year. Most do it and are getting trashed doing it.
The time argument is totally bogus.
B: I love your idea, but would make it 100%.
If you show up before kickoff 100% of the time, then next year you get into GA in the first X rows. If not, then you get into GA in the upper rows. That row will be determined based on how many people got to games on time last year. Simple, should be able to be implemented with ushers properly located.
On A, uhm, that's just ... like ... your opinion, man. My opinion is that everyone is equally busy, but some are more busy than others. (I.e., there is legitimately busy and there is "busy".) No profit in us arguing back-and-forth on that one it seems.
On B, consider this modification to my initial proposal. Upper tier is GA, lower tier is assigned seats based on full-time semesters at the U. Freshmen still have to show their commitment, so they spend the first season in GA. Sophomores through graduate students get seniority based assigned seating as they do now, but if they slip past X% on-time arrivals (based on ticket scans), they get kicked back up to GA for a season, and the clock starts again. Ticket "seeding" would need to be determined on an annual basis, to simplify it.
And ushers would have to firmly enforce it, especially as between tiers. So the good and timely fans get rewarded with the better seats, and the folks who value other activities over timely arrival get the thinner air.
I find your logic questionable. Michigan has been a broad-ranging national/international school for decades.
As for the "no exciting games theory, what in the tapdancing hell are you talking about? There weren't many exciting games in 2010. Great. But 2011 had the UTL game, damn entertaining wins over Illinois and Nebraska, and a nice little battle with Ohio State. They also won a damn Sugar Bowl. And yet 2012 saw TERRIBLE attendance. Just brutal.
But regardless of the reason, what is the problem here? If a quarter of the students aren't gonna show, why are we going to continue to reserve a seat for each and every student? It makes no sense.
I agree with all of that, but keep in mind we had a pretty bad home schedule this year, especially to the average fan. We only had one big time game, MSU.
Northwestern and Air Force were great games, but to the average fan, a non-MGoBlog reading, football obssessed, Michigan die hard, Northwestern and Air Force had no big name appeal.
I'm only saying this because for a lot of these kids, if you tell them that we're playing Northwestern the next day, they'll have no problem missing the beginning of the game because they think it's going to be a boring game and if they miss the beginning to drink they won't miss much.
If you give us this year's home schedule, however, with ND, OSU, and Nebraska, I doubt we see nearly the attendance issue. I'm still for the change, but I do think last year was an anomally with the awful home schedule.
3400 people missed Michigan State. For a 3:30 kickoff.
When more than 15% of the students just flat no-show for a late afternoon game against your second-biggest football rival, the problem isn't with the schedule.
the entitlement displayed by the original poster is nauseating.
We should be grateful you bother to show up at all? no. but maybe you'll understand how poor your logic is when you grow up a bit. Sorry kids - get over yourselves. And be thankful you get to see the games you attend for a fraction of the cash the average season ticketholder shells out.
All the kids who go to UM Dearborn and Flint end up getting screwed. Not that any of you or myself care that much. Just something to bring up. If tickets go to a lottery system AA students will get most if not all of those tickets. I am not sure how the UM Flint/Dearborn lottery system now works but they ONLY have a lottery where every student in AA is promised tickets if they want them
An excuse that needs to die is the one involving the huge number of students who grew up out of state and didn't know anything about Michigan's history or tradition until they arrived on campus as freshmen. That was the same thing for students a decade, two decades, three decades ago yet they always got to the game on time.
If you went to the trouble of spending money on season tickets, why the crap would you waste them by not showing up until the halfway into the second quarter? Why bother going at all then? If you want to drink all day, drink all day and let someone who actually wants to be there for a whole game buy the tickets.
I never, never, NEVER thought we would ever reach the point where half the students would put conditions on them coming to games or even making an effort to get there on time. Noon starts? Sorry. A non-rival opponent? Sorry. RichRod is gone but his seasons sucked three years ago....sorry. What the hell is this? I feel like I'm living in backwards world where up is down, hot is cold and Buckeye fans are classy.
An empty student section for pregame is pathetic. Devin Gardner having to put out a video pleading to students to get to the game on time last year is pathetic, especially since it fell on deaf ears. And your whole post, I'm sorry to say, is pathetic.
Students today act like U-M was a community college before they got there. There were no hard classes or need to study for them, no broad international student body, and no one ever found time to stay up late and drink so they could be up bright and early for kickoff. Because the school has CHANGED, man... When the only thing that's changed is the inability of recent students to manage their time and their ability to make excuses. I think a lot of the "back in my day" things is selective memory, and yes, many a Michigan student of every generation is naturally self-important. Goes with our arrogant asses reputation, and that the world revolves them. That hasn't changed either. But something that noticably and mesurably HAS changed is the amount of students showing up for the games. The section shows that. Somewhere we got to the point where we guaranteed all students tickets. And that wasn't always true either.
And OP, upvoting your own post is lame.
...used to create a happy middle ground:
1- Student tickets should be print at "home" only - Where your seat is assigned the Monday before the game
2- Seat assignments are based on "Good vs Bad vs (no show)" entrance scans - Over your entire student "career"
IE
a- Seniors with exemplary attendance get the best seats
b- Upperclassman who miss or are late here&there pay a lil penitence - But don't get totally screwed
c- Freshman are once again low on the todem pole but get to earn their stripes
d- "Habitual Offenders" are justifiably sent to top and toward the end zone - Or simply denied a seat that week and their ticket is reissued
3- Students without season tickets ..or.. Fans on the Season Ticket interest list get a shot at attending, in place of the "habitual offender" students that have game tickets denied any given week - A non-student fan is significantly better than a non-attending student
4- Students can create "groups/blocks" of tickets that would be assigned together - And scored as a collective for location priority
5- Students that know ahead of time that they will not be able to attend can avoid a "no-show" demerit by confirming online in advance and their ticket can be reissued to either: Students without season tickets ..or.. Fans on the Season Ticket interest list
I may have missed a scenario to consider, but I believe you get my point
I've seen this idea (or variants) thrown around a few times and I really like it. I suppose the only sticking point would be how to track each student's data. Perhaps they'd have to start scanning MCards too? Then somebody would need to build the database and find a way to link the MCard input to the ticket scanners. Very possible, just may take a lot more work than it appears on the surface.
Student tickets are already assigned to each student, why would you need to link it to an MCard?
There was a set amount of tickets, and if more applied than they had they just adjusted next year. There were even those couple of years where students got half season packages, and some of them were shuffled off to the south endzone when demand started growing.
The only reason to move to general admission is to oversell the section. If you're not overselling, the general admission is actually counter-productive.
There are 2 solutions to the 'ring of apathy" at the top of the student section:
(1) Move to general admission and oversell the section.
(2) Keep assigned seats and strictly enforce the seat assignments.
Option (1) eliminates empty seats by selling them to non-students. Option (2) does not eliminate empty seats, but distributes them more evenly across the section so you don't have blocks of 20 empty rows.
Since they are going to GA, they must be shrinking the section.
life is all about choices. yes, football saturdays are about more than just the game, it's the whole game-day experience. so, the students now have to make choices about which elements of that experience are more important to them. Those that prioritize a couple more games of beer pong over close seats have made their decision, and others can choose differently. And, when did students become so helpless that they can't figure out how to enjoy themselves AND get good seats?
get in line with friends, bring a flask, a snack, and anything else that adds to your gameday experience, and wait for the gates to open, then get your seat as close as you want/can.
it's not hard.
those arguing about sacrificing an hour of study time to get better seats - again, that's your choice. if you care that much about sitting 20-30 rows closer, that's your choice. if you're more invested in your studies, that's also your choice.
it's almost like this is the first time some of these kids have been told they can't have everything they want, their way, all the time. sad, really.
Don't agree with you often, DB, but in this case (Class of '87 here), fully agree with the "what constitutes good today" argument. Like you summarized, Fr was end zone, and the holy land was Senior or Grad seats in Section 26 (or so). Rows 25-50.
Maybe the YouTube see-me-on-the-internets generation insists Row A is the place to be...who knows?
To other comments above, the early arrivers will pack in the lower section/lower rows, and peter out around the corner, but arrive an hour before the game? You'll have your choice of Row 25 in any section, for however many friends you'll want to bring with you.
But I don't think for a moment that ALL the students are mashed into rows A through 60, leaving 30 rows empty above. Those 3500-5500 no shows make a visual impact, regardless.
And if the no-show splits go among each of the undergrad classes, Freshmen had no excuse to not show or be on time, as they had no "bummer seasons" to endure. Sophs had just enjoyed a banner 2011 season, so what was the excuse? Lousy sked? Juniors got to see some wins with RR, and enjoy a rebirth of M Football in 2011...why miss games or significant portions of them? Lame excuses abound. And thus, they reap what they sow.
My Take on the situation;
Keep in mind that it's not just the "drunk sorority" student who doesn't like this change. A vast majority of students who have been answering polls on Facebook have said they hate it, Brian acknowleged as much in his front page post.
So while everyone here likes to bash the kids who are drinking, the so called "drunk sorority girl", for hating this policy, every student does basically.
Whether kids are pregaming or just sitting in their dorm room, most students would rather have a guaranteed seat at a certain spot that they can get whether they leave at 11:15 or 11:45. Now they have no idea where they'll sit before hand, and most people would rather do whatever they want than have to stand in line for 30-45 minutes before they normally would and still not be guaranteed a good seat.
That being said, as a current student and someone in Greek Life, I'm in favor of the change. I'm willing to leave 30 minutes ealier to get a better seat, I'll just start pregamming 30 minutes earlier. I think if you're willing to wait in line for an extra 30 minutes, you should get a better seat. I'm also fine with reducing the size of the student section. But just keep in mind, this isn't just Greek life who doesn't like this change, most students don't.
To some it's overwhelmingly popular-
http://annarbor.com/mi/wolverines/2013/04/with_poll_will_michigans_new_g...
No shit it's depending on what group you poll. That's why I said students. The group I am talking about being polled in students. My point was specifically about students. The polls on Facebook I've seen are all student responses. The poll you posted is open to the public, majority non students, so of course the results are different.
Everyone else likes it. So what's you're point? It's one meaningless poll vs. another.
Now they have no idea where they'll sit before hand, and most people would rather do whatever they want than have to stand in line for 30-45 minutes before they normally would and still not be guaranteed a good seat.
Can we stop saying people will have to stand in line? It is totally not true. You will have to stand in the stadium, but not in a line unless you get to the stadium more than 90 minutes before kickoff to try to get front couple rows.
It's General Admission. When they open doors 90 mins before kick, everyone gets in. Once that 10 minute rush is over, there won't be a line that is any different than the congestion line that has always existed right before kickoff.
You (student section) lost my support for your cause when I remembered the MANY games that damn section was empty in patches.
Sorry, I have no sympathy for those who don't show up when they have tickets at a discounted price. As someone who is about to go on the waiting list for Section 23 (now a $600 annual donation, x2 which is $1200), I have a right to be annoyed. I'm just thankful I have the funds to be on the damn list.
Love the noise you guys bring, but there is none when the seats are empty. Damn.
Oh quit your alumni whining. I paid 200k to go to michigan for undergrad. So yes, people who didnt go to michigan or are now rich alumni can pay large sums because the demand is there. So let the kids enjoy the "student section" while they are in fact still paying tuition. I could care less if its full at kickoff. Were talking about college sports for college kids. And all I remember about the "alumni section" is a bunch of old farts who never stood up or who bitched about people standing up. Could never get the wave going either. And fergodsake, if student section is the source of our home field advantage then alumni need to quit complaining about how appropriate their chants are (i.e you suck). Get over it. Now as an alumnus I truly despise the shit students get. Ok now go back to your usual whine fest and negging anyone with courage to tell you off. College used to be about students, I wish DB hadnt made it a battle of money.
Avoiding embarrassment? Doesn't do anything to make Michigan look good? This is the wrong blog to post this in, but its just a student section at a football game. You're not going to have to deal with coworkers coming up to you on Monday saying "Hey Mr. Butterfield, you see the game on Saturday? Student section wasn't even full at kickoff! You should be ashamed of that degree you have hanging on your wall." I hope that doesn't actually happen, but if it does you'll still be able to say gtfo of my office. In all seriousness though, I really don't understand the embarrassment reason, please explain.
Sorry bro. I'll take the gun off your head. We're you bitching about discounted tickets when you were a student here? Thankfully I never had to endure this but my sister is going to be a freshman in the fall and she is pissed. Tailgating is a great college experience. You're talking about punishing the entire student body to correct the behavior of a few thousand. I usually showed up 15 minutes before kickoff and was fine. But ya no, let's take more seats away from the students so we can keep holding onto the distinguished title of the quietest 100K+.
I have a question for the "shrink the student section!" contingent on this blog. How do you differentiate between a ticket order from a student that will show up and one from a student that won't? If the purpose of shrinking the student section is to reduce no-shows, how do you ensure that the seats you eliminate are the seats of people that wouldn't have shown up?
This is an interesting idea that I hadn't thought of. I really appreciate the response. I have some concerns with this approach, though.
What happens when the estimate is too small? Does this mean that the size of the section would have to be the same for OSU and directional MI (leading to there still being a bunch of empty seats for poor quality games)?
I wonder if there are any legal issues with over selling like this.
Seems like a good idea in theory, but I think I would kill a man if I showed up before kickoff and was told I couldn't get in as the student section was full.
Your theory there sounds like it might make sense. Frankly, I don't think much of this will be much of an issue for 3:30 games, which I love and might arrive much earlier to get the good seats for. Noon games, however, might be hard to judge and I still expect a late arriving crowd.
I recall plenty of drunk sorority girls from '87-'90. In fact, very pleasant memories. Ahem. Anyway... I wonder if some of the empty seats issue can be traced to the current requirement that nonstudents must validate student tix. Seemed like it was easier to unload the games you couldn't or wouldn't go to when the potential buyer wasn't faced with a hefty surcharge. As a result, more folks were able to buy and use student section tix.
Rutgers policy on no-shows.
- Students are limited in the number of times per season and the total number of times while enrolled as students that they can be a no-show for games.
- Students who accumulate two (2) no-shows in one football season will be ineligible to claim tickets for the remainder of the season.
- Students who accumulate five (5) total no-shows in football while enrolled as a student will be ineligible to claim tickets for the remainder of their time as students.
Doesn't quite address re-selling seats of late people and maybe relegating them to SRO (found this one while trying to search the web for anyone implementing such a system), but still...you're getting to buy season tix at a discount vs. those a few sections away, just GA now.
Rutgers is in New Jersey. They have an excuse because they are too busy fist pumping and beating up Snookers.
Hasn't our parents generation fleeced the younger generations enough?
You already have all of our future dollars maxed out on your current credit cards. You have tossed our educations away. Now you want to take our lower priced seats?
Hey thanks guys. Instead of pillaging to obtain your weath you found a new and easier way; steal from your future generations. Well, done sirs.
Oh and thanks again! Thanks so very much.
I'm disappointed, I was hoping a drunk sorority girl would show up to "defend her besties and main betches LOL XOXOXOXO like totes!"
The levels of ether dropped on her would be radioactive
they weren't very good.
The pro-GA crowd has plenty of good points, but I'm getting really tired of this all out assault on students in general. Most of the students are pretty good fans and if you took the student section out completely, going to noon Michigan games against cupcake opponents would have the energy of a golf tournament.
/ducks for cover from outraged alums prepping the flamebaits
I see what you did there. But if rows 70+ aren't filled by kickoff, then this GA business solved nothing...
Oh my goodness, you damn college kids bug me big time. First, you can't play devils advocate after you state that you act complicity in the opposite way. Your argument is nullified. Secondly, this issue is no longer a "fair" question. If the AD studies the issue, and evidence points to on average or in one game upwards or equal to 5400 students were not showing up by kickoff or at all, this now becomes a "equitable" situation. Simply, the student sections becomes a single "entity" and an equitable policy is applied.
We don't care about your plight, since you created the issue. The AD has feed the monster for too long. That's a fair criticism, but only to a degree. Are you a fan and supporter of te UofM FB team or not? Do you want them to succeed or not? Do you believe in the "big house traditions or not?
Last year they made a corrective action, the students didn't oblige with the HAIL - which was granted a shoddy attempt. This year they are changing policies and procedures and re-establishing an expectation for the SS. That is life. Deal.
All this doesn't matter...I can tell you peeps who don't show or come late, you pissed off the wrong people. If powerful alumni are pressing the AD to make this change, they will do it since their money directly effects the whole AD and UofM.
I see two reasons last year was particularly disappointing in terms of student turnout.
1. The current upperclassmen started school at a Michigan entrenched in the post Appy. State loss Rich Rod era. Michigan home games of 2007-2010 were a different animal than previous iterations with only a 16-14 home record and losses to usual punching bags like App St, Akron, and Purdue as well as ass-whoopings at the hands of Oregon, Illinois!, Penn State, Ohio, Michigan State, and Wisconsin. Elder fans have to remember that many of the current students did not necessarily grow up diehard fans. I believe these years developed a smaller (NOT WORSE) group of Michigan fans from the student population.
2. This was the worst home slate I can recall. UMass, although technically a MAC school now, is the type of matchup that inevitably will lead to no shows. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. Illinois was on fall long weekend, which a ton of students go home for, and it is difficult to sell tickets for this game, leading to a ton of students who end up just eating their tickets. Then there were 3 games against average competition that I would expect an average type turnout for (Air Force, Northwestern, Iowa) and obviously the only big game against State.
I expect attendence to return to form in the Hoke era, not necessarily because of this GA business, but because every class that comes in will be starting school with a football program closer to renewing the classic dominance of Michigan football.
Final note: Don't mention HAIL, there were no incentives and it was impossible to get service to check in, so why would students bother?
So they don't get hit with GA seating the next year. The idea that "you're not giving me enough to attend games on time" (or at all) isn't really the greatest argument. Students said "I don't like your carrot" and now are shocked when they try the stick.
HAIL had nothing to do with time. It only required that you check in. Considering I couldn't get service in the Big House, what was I supposed to do? The solution is tracking when a ticket was scanned, and rewarding timely attendence the following year, not expecting students to spend all game trying to get a signal on their iPhones with the possibility of a free shirt or pizza if they go to enough events.
Was showing and telling students the University would like, and values, them showing up and coming on time. Reasonable people would take that as a signal that "maybe I should show up, and on time." Because they might be nice about it now (as failed as the attempt at being nice might have been), but next time they might not be so nice.
The solution isn't finding the right bribe to get students to show up; the solution is for students to take the hint and just do what's right and show up. And if they choose not to, not to bitch about it afterwards when there are consequences.
Just curious, what year did you graduate? And, by extension, how much were you paying for tuition during your time at U of M? I'm just guessing, based upon the general "get off my lawn" tone of your post, that it wasn't the recent past. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and I apologize. But I suppose my point is you and any like-minded posters should keep in mind that if you graduated more than 15-20 years ago, current students are probably paying somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-5X what you paid in tuition. Thus negating, at least to some degree, the whole alumni donation argument. If you paid $40,000 to attend U of M thirty years ago and are loudly chastising someone who will incur $100K+ in student loan debt during their time spent at U of M, I would just tread a bit more carefully. Now, if you're all baller-like and are throwing fat stacks at Mary Sue on the regular, that's one thing. But I see guys bitching on here about how the $1,200 they shell out per year entitles them to act entitled, when $1,200 might cover book fees for a couple of U of M classes these days. I really don't have a dog in this fight, and I'm not trying to call you or anyone else out. In many ways the anger directed here at studnets is justified. I guess I'm just taking issue with that specific element of your screed. I'm sure I'll be yelled back under the table now.
happened a couple of years ago. I was trying to help a friend in a wheelchair get into the stadium. We avoided the south end because it was so congested. In approaching the areas around those north gates, there was an even much more crowded and congested scene.
It took us a half an hour to be expedited into the stadium and we barely made the kickoff, forget the pregame.
My point is that there were thousands of students backed up and many more coming in from Main, State and Maynard (??). It was pandemonium. I'm sure that it took another half hour or even more for most of them to get inside the stadium.
The problem (as we old farts are perceiving) might be caused by some very real conditions:
They are often late, but they are loud.
Non-students are often on time, but they are mute.
Both classes of fans have their benefits and drawbacks.
We need the students to spend the first quarter doing shots of shitty vodka at a house party so that they can show up at halftime and yell really loud in the fourth quarter. We NEED these late, drunk fans just as badly, if not more, than we need the grey-haired punctual grumblers.
Also, if we are going to penalize students for being late, why not penalize the old grumpy people for leaving too early? How many times have you seen people leaving when Michigan was down a few points at the end of the game but still had an outside chance of coming back? More often than not, it's not the students leaving, but the pessimistic curmudgeons worrying about getting stuck in a crowded parking area. So here's my proposal: let's charge people $10 at the exit gate if they want to leave before the clock says 0:00. All proceeds go to Brandon's Domino's private jet fund.
happened a couple of years ago. I was trying to help a friend in a wheelchair get into the stadium. We avoided the south end because it was so congested. In approaching the areas around those north gates, there was an even much more crowded and congested scene.
It took us a half an hour to be expedited into the stadium and we barely made the kickoff, forget the pregame.
My point is that there were thousands of students backed up and many more coming in from Main, State and Maynard (??). It was pandemonium. I'm sure that it took another half hour or even more for most of them to get inside the stadium.
The problem (as we old farts are perceiving) might be caused by some very real conditions:
I agree, the section lines are ridiculous. Hopefully with the GA format, it'll move much more quickly since the hold up seemed to always be one old guy with bad vision checking every single ticket to make sure you were in the right section.
If they do GA like Wisconsin, which has general admission but ticketed seats that are distributed as students arrive at the stadium, it's only going to slow those section lines down further, as the ushers count out the specific number of tickets each group wants.
It will be interesting to see how they do this logistically. I have a hard time believing that public safety officials are going to sign off on a system that has no seating assignments for 25,000 people, which would seem to invite a crush at the lower portion of the stands as people try to push there way in there.
Ford posters over their beds?
Not sure what that means...one of the following I guess...
Just ask yourself, when you are standing in line for the front row seat , "WWLBD". What Would Lloyd Brady Do? Be the first in line? I bet he would.
In regards to the non-Notre Dame non-OSU opponent not being worth getting to the game on time, let's take a look at how different that attitude used to be.
Here is the pregame show from the 1983 Northwestern game. In those days, the Wildcats were ten times worse than what Indiana is today. Coming into this game, Northwestern had lost 74 of their previous 81 games. But look at the crowd. Full student section. In fact there's a closeup of the packed student section singing the Victors at 2:31. The only empty seats are in the visitors end zone....
Back in the "old" days, an opponent like Northwestern, which was the laughing stock of college football, didn't matter when it came to getting to the game. How nice that was.
This was my father's senior year. Back in those days, students headed to the game with a 12-pack in hand. Different era, different times my friend.
Videos from 10 years later or 20 years later, and it would show the same thing. Now 30 years later..... And none of those crowds could bring 6-packs into the game. So not that different.
We can move ahead a decade:
Pregame from 1992 Houston game with full student section...
And moving ahead another decade, pregame from 2001 Western game with full student section...
where's the 6-pack, 12-pack, case, 1/4 barrel, fifth of schnapps, etc.?
You can't expect students to show up for games like Houston, or Western....
Oh, wait...
(and was that the Houston game where the band played the James Bond themes at halftime?)
Perhaps the security policy is partly to blame. Regardless of decade college students like to mix booze and football. The difference was in past decades students could sneak alcohol into the stadium and continue to party throughout the game. There was no reason not to go to the game early. The 1983 and 1992 games referenced above were pre 9/11 games where sneaking booze into the stadium was an accepted tradition. In '92 we snuck a pony keg into the stadium strapped to the bottom of a wheel chair...and we were just copying others who had done it. In the 80's you could bring drinks into the stadium. You didn't have to sneak. You could even exit the stadium at half to get more booze and re-enter. Getting anything into the stadium today is virtually impossible, so normal red-blooded partying college students have a disincentive to show up early if they want to party. Also, keep in mind even as recent as the mid-to late 90's not every UM game was on TV, so if you didn't show up you didn't see it. You had to wait for highlights on Sports Center or Michigan Replay on Sunday. Now students can preparty and watch the first quarter or half on their iphone.
The 2001 game referenced above is the first game post 9/11. It was a big deal. People were told to get there early because of extra security, and most didn't know what to expect so everyone showed up.
Also John Navarre was at QB that game so there's that...
And you can just as easily sneak something in now. Most of the games are in jacket weather, and there aren't pat downs.
An 8-4 1982 season, coming off a loss in the Rose Bowl in January 1983, mid-way through the 1983 season, the stands were packed early against foes mighty and meek equally. No amount of beers in hand (or apples, marshmallows, rolls of toilet paper) prevented or made it easier for students to arrive prior to kick-off.
Grasping at straws, my friend.
Sorry about that.
But the point stands...fill the stands!
Look, I am in agreement that it would be nice if the whole stadium were full at kickoff, but the high-horse/arrogant we were better fans than everybody schtick is getting old. This fanbase was segmented enough during the RR disaster. Instead of blaming other sections of the fanbase, everyone should just bring it on Saturdays. The students on this site are not the ones that don't show up, just as the alums on this site aren't the ones who sit on their asses and don't make any noise until the 4th quarter.
/starts to hum cumbaya and imagine everyone holding hands, says fuck it puts the victors on repeat instead
I wonder if the demographic changes in the student body have contributed to the problem of attendance, given the larger percentage of undergrads not only from out of state, but out of country. It would be an interesting thing to survey, although getting ahold of relevant data might be impossible.
Bo was always concerned about the impact of televising every game, home and away, on attendance. There was no immediate impact back in the '80's when this first became a reality, but I wonder if, with all of the other additional sports coverage and entertainment options, if there is now a noticeable impact.
I haven't been in the state for almost 20 years, let alone a football game, but back in the '70's and '80's we had crappy opponents, hangovers, drunken sorority girls, alcohol, etc, but attendance was always pretty good. Something seems to have changed.
I get that 7 wins is "dark" for Michigan football standards. But, 2010 was great compared to my first years, 2008 and 2009. Holy shit you don't even know what "dark" is
As a non-UM student at a school with general admittance for all students, I can attest to the fact that the policy works pretty well. For a big game, you will have to get there early, but for the most part it works fine.
I do wonder what used to happen to students who studied abroad in the fall. I went abroad my junior year, and it sounds like under the previous system I would have been punished for that, even though I attended every game that occurred while I was on campus.
PS - From experience, people will probably just send one of their friends early to claim good seats.
I am a recent grad, as a student I made every home game in 4 years, and I have loved Michigan football since I was born.
First know that I am for a change in the system, I hated get moved by people showing up late as a freshman and sophomore and I hate that the student section looks empty at kickoff. It's embarassing! I hate it!
Because of this I have always said they should scan when students get their and the next year your ticket location is based upon your attendance and arrival time.
However, let me explain why I am tired of reading these threads and listening to people on this blog whine about the student section. Here are the things I'm sick of hearing: "life isn't fair" in response to seniors who are getting royally screwed or "if you're a real fan you'll forget about tailgating", or "get there the night before and get front row seats."
All of these arguments are complete crap for one major reason, they are admitting that this new system sucks too. All of you bitch about the BCS, the leaders and legends names, Maryland and rutgers, ect., ect (and for good reason), and I believe Brian and some of you come
up with good changes to these very flawed systems. So, if I was to tell you the bcs was changing to a new system where the two best teams chosen by coaches poll would decide the national championship would you all say "wow what a great idea"? No, because although it may be better, it may not, it didn't solve the damn problem of no fair playoff! How about if I said we added Missouri and Iowa st instead of rutgers and Maryland, who would be happy? No one! So quit saying this is better for this or that reason when the plain fact of the matter is this new system sucks! Sure it might be a little better than the last one but it still SUCKS!
We know what would work, and that's the system Brian has said for years (scanning attendance and time of arrival).
Also, if I hear that it works at psu one more time I'll scream because I have friends that love psu football and HATED that system. Plus, they had different sections for seniors, juniors, ect. So it's not even the same. And anyone who says Michigan state does it so we should, all I will say to you is... This is Michigan fergodsakes!
Now, to anyone who says "DB could make way more money by making the student section smaller, and the tickets are sold to students are sold way below face value, so don't whine about the price increase" here are my responses:
You know how else we could make more money?
UNIFORMZ and ADS IN THE BIG HOUSE. That's a terrible argument!
You know what else is undervalued?
The "salary" of the football players! Pay the football players what they earn and students can be forced to pay full price.
Finally, for all of you saying the student section is too empty at kickoff (I agree), the student section isn't very loud (I disagree) and this system is going to change these for the better (I believe they both suck) here is what I have to say to you. You know who is really quiet, everyone outside the student section! I don't care how empty the student section is, it's way more of a home field advantage than all the old people who don't make any noise. You want to kick them out too? Make their seating like the students? Or do they spend enough $ to give them the option of being terrible fans while the students who pay 20 to 55 thousand dollars a year get kicked out? This football team is part of the university of Michigan. Guess what keeps that university open and allows it to have a football team, the STUDENTS. So cut them a break.
/end rant
Sorry for spelling and formatting issues. I'm on my phone at work.
You wrote that whole post on a phone? You are more hardcore than I.
Personally, I think all fans should be fitted with shock collars that are calibrated to the amount of noise the wearer is making. 30 seconds of silence = a jolt to the neck. If the decrepit old bastards can't take it, give their tickets to people who are vocal.
One entertaining half-time activity would be to take an old geezer out of the stands and force him to try field goals. If he doesn't make it, an iPhone app lets the crowd give him a zap.
I'm telling you, you will change your tune when you get older. I embarass my 12 year old if I yell stuff and the mean older ladies in front of me don't like it if I scream, either. I clap and yell and stuff with everyone else, but everyone looks at you like you are cray cray if you yell something out of turn. Srsly. It just isn't the same as when you are 20.
If I get much older, I'll be dead since I'm 60.
I got news for you—it doesn't matter what you do when you're my age—young people either look right through you as if you aren't there, or they smile at you like you're their senile uncle.
Don, apparently this is some serious stuff, and this is no time to employ half-measures.
Show up late, don't show up at all, don't cheer, don't cheer loud enough, have blue hair, or are just an irritating drunken sorority girl, that's it, its the scrotum squeeze of death for you.
We get rid of the 85,000 or so deadbeat fans that plague the stadium and fill them with real Michigan Men who know how to attend and properly cheer the team, only then will the world be right.
Based on that view, I say reduce the student allotment by half, and require the lucky students who do get tickets to clean up the stadium after the game.
Everyone is bitching about students acting entitled. Well, yeah compared to every single non alum inside of Michigan Stadium THEY ARE ENTITLED. It is THEIR UNIVERSITY. They pay tuition, they go to class, they deal with everything on campus. Who cares if some drunk hillbilly from Fowlerville will show up 30 minutes earlier and stay longer. He will pay for his tickets and that is all he contributes to the university whereas students will be more likely to donate in the future and have a stake in the reputation of the school and alums.
Cry about the student section all you want. The BIG sucks so if someone wants to skip the Northwestern game in a snowstorm...let them. I agree it is pathetic to a degree but that is the way the world is today. Older generations didn't shoot up schools and bomb innocent people. The younger generation does for some reason. young people across the board are dumb.
Lower the student section in size if you want but that will screw over true student fans. Yes, the sorority girls will be let in BUT THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN LET IN. It is the way Michigan games have always been (from our perspective). GUESS WHAT?
STUDENTS PAY OVER $200 FOR STUDENT TICKETS!!! My cousin who goes to Alabama pays like $75. UM over charges the students to begin with so F DB they can do what they want. Hockey season tickets are $200???? WHAT?!?! Western games are free for students and they are better than us recently. The whole system needs reevaluating. I JUST BLEW UP AND WASTED YOUR TIME....SORRRY CAPPPPSSSSS! NEED MOAR SUBS!
Sorry OP, but the drunk sorority girl showed up to argue on her own behalf.
I think some Thorazine is more like it.
My friend/classmate at NU got the policy enacted where every student pays a student activities fee and in exchange all sporting events are free with student ID.
I do not advocate that for Michigan. Michigan does not have to do what other schools do for tickets.
is tied with the university budgets. Totally different thing. Michigan Athletic Department must find a way to generate revenue and profits.
Let's face it, 2007-2012 has been a relatively dark era for Michigan football.
Except for the whole winning a BCS bowl thing in 2011 and going undefeated at home two consecutive years. Next year's juniors, sophomores and freshmen will have never seen a home defeat (and almost zero home basketball losses on top of it). Kind of hard to feel bad for you guys at this point.
My only problem with the "drunk sorority girl" stereotype is the stereotyping of Greek life in general. I know this board is generally anti-Greek life, but that stereotype is just not accurate - as all stereotypes are not a good portrayal of groups.
There are plenty of undergrads not associated with Greek life who overdrink and don't make it to the games or only show up at half-time; the problem is not limited to drunk sorority girls or drunk fraternity guys. And there are sections of Greek life who comprise the most vocal portion of the student section. A lot of times they are the ones in the front row cheering loudest and celebrating with the players after the game.
The board is not only heavily anti-greek, but heavily anti-students in general. There are a lot of dbag alums here who love to hate younger generations.
This is quite the sound argument you're putting forth.
/s
^ Exhibit A. King of the Dbag alums.
Hell of a burn.
Ah I see you've moved on to the next group of people to stereotype and make baseless assumptions about. Well done.
But hey, at least I'm now a "little man." Yesterday I was a "little boy." Movin' on up!
Go home OP, you're drunk
I got season tickets in 2008, always arrived before the team ran out, and never left until after the games were over. Yes, even Northwestern. That experience kinda broke me... I still show up early for games and stay late to games I'm excited about / think will be competitive... I showed up within minutes of the gates opening for UTLs, and nearly an hour early for Ohio and Nebraska in '11. I was early for Air Force, Michigan St. and Northwestern this year...
But after 2008 it's difficult to rustle up the enthusiasm to wake up super early, walk a couple miles to the stadium, and watch us level a floundering Illinios team or another MACrifice. But I'm also graduating, so I suppose I can't be part of the problem anymore.
I never watched college footbal until I became a freshman here at Michigan in 2008. In that year we won 3 games. I still wanted to get to every game early. I don't think its a richrod effect, but rather a growing culture of tailgating for as long as you can.
This is the old man in my talking, but it's 6-8 weekends a year, spread out during some of the nicer months in Michigan (at least when students are on campus). If you can't get to an "early" game by 11:30, then be prepared to sit away from the field. It's that easy. I know people want to rationalize instances when this isn't fair or how this will affect attendance, but there are enough students at the school to fill a couple thousand spaces. If you can't be one that week, deal with it.
But I take my M Football way too serious and never mixed football and alcohol when I was a student. It was never an issue to hang at the tailgate too long for me. Saturday's were about one thing and one thing only...the game. After the game was over there was plenty o time for gettin' your drunk on, but never a reason to be late to one of the main reasons I went to UM in the first place.
I hate how Anti Greek this board is. We get it, you want students to show
up on time. But sorry, getting hammered at massive parties in beautiful weather with beautiful girls as well as your best friends and fraternity brothers (something you will Only do about 20 times in your life) is more fun then going to the first quarter of the Illinois game. I have the next 40 years to be a punctual, responsible fan. Let me have my four years of being an idiot.
Or just stay at the great party longer and see 3/4ths of the game from row 70. It's not like you won't get a seat, and a decent one at that.
I get single game alumni assoc. seats from time to time, which are terrible. They're at the very top of the South end zone, mixed in with the opponent's fans. After the half, I usually go over and sit in the top of the student section. The seats are better, the crowd is more lively (and more Michigan), and you're near the band. They're still pretty good seats.
Now imagine sitting in them after your great pre-game party, and life is pretty sweet.
Where is Section1??