Beating a Dead Horse-RR Haters

Submitted by Ziff72 on

I had a theory about our little fan divide.   Much of the debate seems to be centered on Lloyd(Old School) vs RR(New School), but I was thinking something different.  Whenever I'm out and the topic comes up or I hear people on the radio it is not the tone I hear.  The general consensus is that when we start to win this stuff will go away, I don't really think so.

I think most of the people that hate RR are the same ones that hated Lloyd and felt he was too conservative and the same ones that hated Mo because he didn't recruit enough speed on D or the ones that hated Bo because he didn't pass.  We are a spoiled fan base that has grown impossibble to please with plenty of detractors who love to pile on when things are bad.

When I overhear the old guys in the gym "breaking it down" they don't know anything and as much as they hate every writer,  that's still their only source of information.  These guys wouldn't give a guy a pat on the back if he had a $100 taped on the back, they bitch and complain and talk about  things that never existed or never will be.  Michigan needs to get back to averaging 11 wins a season, they get the best recruits etc...   How do you educate these people??  You can't.

Most people are uninformed miserable boobs who like to bitch, because they hate their lives.  I think Michigan losing has given them a place for their voice to be heard.  I think there are more people in the they like Lloyd and Rich camps than people are lead to believe.

Just my thoughts, what have you come across??  It just seems that the same guys that hated Lloyd and wanted anyone else in there, now bitch about RR, because they believe we should win the NC every other year ok maybe every 3rd year and anything else is a disaster and the coach should be fired.

 

 

clarkiefromcanada

May 27th, 2010 at 1:24 PM ^

You say...

Most people are uninformed miserable boobs who like to bitch, because they hate their lives.

I hear where you are going and you may be right since it is these idiots who sit in your section(s) and bitch at 18 year olds or online they live as the "three star mafia".

I don't know if it's most people or just a loud annoying minority.

Take solace in the fact that things are about to change and when we start winning (a lot...and soon) and RichRod starts his Revenge and Vindication Tour 2010 (looking at you Danny Hope) the voices of discontent will, if not silence, return to the dull undercurrent they always were.

Draw some comfort from the MGoBlogosphere where the democracy of the neg tends to limit idiocy, mostly.

joeyb

May 27th, 2010 at 1:27 PM ^

Most of the people just want to win. Those people will stop complaining. The others want a "Michigan Man" and will do anything to get that. They will also stop complaining, not because they are no longer upset, but because they will have no mud to sling anymore.

If we start and continue to win, contend for the B10 title every year, make some BCS appearances, and RR continues to run a clean ship, there will be nothing to complain about even if they are looking for it.

NomadicBlue

May 27th, 2010 at 1:35 PM ^

I live in Ohio, so all I ever get to hear about is sweatervests and Pryor.  Earplugs are nice.  I can nod politely, and still keep my sanity.  Otherwise I would have to get all mushroom tea on these bitches. 

Magnus

May 27th, 2010 at 1:37 PM ^

The majority of sports fans don't know anything.  There are oodles more knowledgeable posters on here than there are in real life.

I talk to fans of other teams, and i'm like, "Who's your starting running back going to be this year?"

Then they stutter and stammer for a few seconds, and they're like, "I think it's going to be...oh, what's his name?...  That Ellison kid."

"Oh, you mean Evans?"

"Yeah, I think that's his name."

So anyway, while this guy is complaining about the offensive line and the defensive scheme, but he can't name his team's starting running back - probably the second most glorious position on the team - I take anything he has to say with a grain of salt.

I've listened to too many WVU and Virginia Tech fans tell me "what's up with Michigan" to believe that more than 85% of fans have any clue what's actually going on.  I just smile, nod, and secretly swear under my breath.

blueblueblue

May 27th, 2010 at 1:43 PM ^

So you have figured everyone out and placed them into their proper categories. Their complaints are really not about football, they are outward expressions of inner foibles and frailties. An elegant, but ultimately implausible theory. Perhaps partly true, but partly at best. But, what is more interesting is - where does your theory place you? Are you an omniscient onlooker who just derides those less intelligent and less insightful than you are? 

Most people are uninformed miserable boobs who like to bitch, because they hate their lives.  I think Michigan losing has given them a place for their voice to be heard. 

As omniscient onlooker myself, I think you put "most people" into less than flattering, overly simplistic categories, calling them "miserable boobs" because it 1) helps you understand people who are not like yourself and as such forms the basis for your reality, but not reality in itself; and 2) at the same time elevates you above them. Like I said, an elegant theory, but ultimately too simplistic. 

Tater

May 27th, 2010 at 2:46 PM ^

...but I have a question for you.  The OP said, "Most people are uninformed miserable boobs who like to bitch."

Would you like it more if he had said, "Many people, etc?"  He definltely nalied a very sizable portion of the "bitching culture."

Anyway, I was hoping for Carr to be kicked upstairs as early as 2003.  I was tired of top ten recruiting classes mixed with preseason hoopla predicting Rose Bowls and possible MNC's, only to see another 8-4 season. The bottom line was that I thought all of those great recruiting classes underachieved in the W=L column.  I didn't want him fired, but I was hoping he could be convinced to retire to a nice, cushy job in the AD. 

Carr was a great figurehead for Michigan; he exemplifies many positive qualities; but the game definitely passed him by.  As the years went by, his inability to beat Jim Tressel made it very difficult to justify keeping him at the head coaching position. 

I still think it has ended well.  Carr got to leave on his own terms, and a coach who can once again help the team beat OSU and compete for the MNC is in place. The program has been modernized from the ground up.  The rebuilding is almost complete.  Ijust  hope the winning starts now and RR gets a chance to coach next year's team. 

Tom_Harmon 2.0

May 27th, 2010 at 8:17 PM ^

Bravo Tater, for that insightful analysis of the Carr years.  Couldn't have said it better myself.

My cure for all the haters is:  If you can bury them with evidence, on the spot, with evidence that proves them wrong, then you can shut them up while they're around you.  It won't cure the hate plague but people will be quiet and it gives you time to think.

To accomplish this:

a) Watch plenty of highlight films, from Michigan, from OSU, from MSU, and from anyone else we've been having trouble with lately, in any sport.  Even if M loses.  Those are the best highlight reels to watch.

b) Take notes in a notebook.  Put pen to paper and WRITE DOWN YOUR THOUGHTS.  This helps a lot.  I can't count how many times I've noticed, "Hey, this is the exact same pass play they ran vs. ND the previous year."  Incidentally, if you keep the notebook handy, you can whip it out and say something like, "You are Wrong Because..."  Best cure for unreasoned, where-are-the-10-win-seasons foolishness.

c) If you have a blog, post your analyses to it.  Or post to MGoBlog, or your Facebook account.  Post to friends' pages who support other teams.  Gets them riled up and in a debating mood, and then they check your analyses for you and find the holes.  A virtuous cycle!

d) We have the evidence, and we must stand up and be heard.  Wolverine Nation needs us now more than ever, and the battle for the hearts and minds of the sports-loving public is going on in gyms, in coffee shops, and online, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Don

May 27th, 2010 at 1:51 PM ^

In any random group of people, there will be a percentage who simply seem to be unable to do anything other than bitch about something incessantly. Everybody complains about something some of the time, but I'm talking about those who cannot do anything else. These are people who tend to be impervious to facts or common sense, because their existence depends on having something to bitch about. Needless to say, the bitchers always couch their bitching in terms that bolster their own sense of self-worth, or that refer to their injured sense of self-worth. That attitude of entitlement underlays those tiresome types who "demand" 13-0 seasons every year, who regard an 8-4 season as simply "unacceptable." Their identities are tied up with successful sports teams, and so having a team that does anything less than win a NC every year is untolerable.

You can see it mirrored in the tee-shirts kids wear. About 10 years ago, it wasn't uncommon to see kids in this area wearing Florida State gear. You knew that the chances they had any connection whatsoever to FSU was nonexistent; they're wearing the shirt not because they love garnet and gold but because they're identifying with a perceived winner. Now that FSU has fallen back to the rest of the pack, you see other program gear being worn, if it's not Michigan or MSU.

clarkiefromcanada

May 28th, 2010 at 12:16 AM ^

It's the attitude of the guys bitching in your section that gets annoying for me...you know, like the guy yelling because he thinks that he needs to educate the fans around him ("dammit Denard, throw the goddamn screen") when you know full well Denard is *not* throwing that thing anywhere at that point. Or the guy is of the opinion that he coaching staff don't have any idea how to do their jobs "Come on Rich, throw the god damned ball!" as if his 20 years of sitting in the section qualifies him in playcalling. Honestly Don I think it's the arrogance of "bitching guy" (it's 99 percent male) that pisses me off...and maybe this is what you mean when you speak of bolstering their own self worth...

KidA2112

May 27th, 2010 at 3:03 PM ^

I agree with Skunk, I never wanted Lloyd as the coach and I wanted Cam Cameron as the coach. He was the OC at the time. Instead we got Carr and Debord/Parrish/Jackson.

I like RR but there needs to be improvement.

IF RR is fired after this year or next year, he will have left Michigan in much better shape than what was left to him. He's done a good job building a team and hopefully he gets to see them mature and develop.

allintime23

May 27th, 2010 at 3:34 PM ^

I think he wins 7 or 8 this year including the post season. It's great to be here and it will be even better come this October 9th when we shut up Tina. If he wins the State game and 7 during the season he may get another year. I think we win in South Bend also. If the ND game goes the other way it could get bad.

Frank Drebin

May 27th, 2010 at 3:41 PM ^

I support the head coach of Michigan. I could care less if he is a "Michigan Man" or if he is a "Hick from West Virginia". I liked Lloyd, his values, and his national championship he led us to. I like that RichRod is modernizing the program. I like his personality. I would like the next Michigan coach as well, simply because he is the coach for Michigan. I couldn't do their job any better, and I am not in a position to make changes. I trust the AD and believe that he wants success just as much as I do. People will always complain unless there is perfection, and some will still complain even when this is happening (see 1997). UM was undefeated, and people still complained about the the "boring offense" and how game management was not exciting. I will take the Griese led "boring offense" all the time if it means we end 12-0. Sure, I want touchdowns everytime that the ball is touched, and I want three and outs every time the defense takes the field, but I am also realisitc that this won't always happen. In the end, I support Michigan coaches now, in the past, and will continue to do so into the future.

ToledoBlue

May 28th, 2010 at 7:37 AM ^

"I want touchdowns everytime that the ball is touched, and I want three and outs every time the defense takes the field, but I am also realisitc that this won't always happen."

Fielding Yost begs to differ :) that is all

jBdub

May 27th, 2010 at 4:22 PM ^

"Haters are gonna hate.  All you can do is give them fewer people to talk to," and the way to do that is by winning.

mgovictors23

May 27th, 2010 at 4:31 PM ^

Their is one at my church that doesn't like Rich Rodriquez because he isn't a "Big Ten" type of coach. He says our 250 pound offensive lineman won't cut it in the Big Ten. Apparently he doesn't know the facts that our offensive lineman are all 280+ pounds. It just goes to show you the ones that complain don't have very much knowledge to back it up.

Nosce Te Ipsum

May 27th, 2010 at 7:51 PM ^

RR deserves some criticism. Live with it. His record may not be indicitive of his ability as a coach but it's the representation of his worth. He really messed up with the sanctions. Like the top of the page reads, "Take It Like A Man". Stop whinning like a little sissy girl.

Nosce Te Ipsum

May 28th, 2010 at 11:17 AM ^

There is no other detail needed other than the fact that he is the head coach who is in control and oversees the program. It happened on his watch, therefore he is responsible.

aaamichfan

May 28th, 2010 at 11:02 PM ^

If you read the report (which you obviously haven't done), you would see that this all happened under the watch of Bill Martin in the AD office. But since you would like to pin it on Coach Rodriguez, you have chosen to do so.

 

Read the report before trying to place blame. It would benefit you greatly.

Tom_Harmon 2.0

May 27th, 2010 at 8:34 PM ^

Just for fun, I did some stats on RR vs. Tressel vs. past Michigan coaches.  Let me know what you guys think.  All win-loss percentages are wins divided by total games, and all numbers are from Wikipedia or MGoBlue.

 

Jim Tressel: 2001-Present (9 seasons)

94-21

81.74%

Impressive.  But he's only coached more seasons than Gary Moeller on the Michigan Football Coaches' Hit Parade:

Fielding Yost (Mr. Point-a-Minute, four consecutive NCs from 1901 to 1904): 80.88% (25 seasons)

Fritz Crisler (Winged Helmet Guy, 1947 M team 'Best M Team Ever', beat USC 49-0 in 1948 Rose Bowl): 80.50% (9 seasons)

Bo Schembechler (University of Michigan, beat Woody Hayes' best Buckeye squad 24-12 in Ann Arbor 1969, 5-4-1 against Hayes overall, best record of college football coaches in the 1970s (96-16-3)): 78.54% (20 seasons)

Bo Schembechler (Overall, coached at Miami of Ohio under Hayes): 76.22% (37 seasons)

Gary Moeller (University of Michigan): 73.33% (4 seasons)

Lloyd Carr (University of Michigan, national champions in 1997, 5-2 against Ohio State before 2002): 75.30% (13 seasons)

What do these numbers tell us?  Well, on paper Tressel is more successful than any Michigan football coach in history--for 9 seasons.  If he can keep up this winning pace for the next 10-15 years we might be screwed, but I have a feeling Tresselball isn't going to cut it much longer in the Big Ten.  Time vil tell.

Here are RR's stats vs. Tressel:

At present, Michigan is 0-2 against Ohio State under head coach Rich Rodriguez. How do Jim Tressel's and RR's overall records stack up?



Tressel (Youngstown State, division I-AA): 69.59% (16 seasons)

Tressel (Ohio State, division I-A): 81.74% (9 seasons)



Rodriguez (Glenville State, division I-AA): 58.90% (7 seasons)

Rodriguez (West Virginia University, division I-A): 69.77% (7 seasons)

Rodriguez (Michigan, division I-A): 33.33% (2 seasons)

The division difference is key.  Rodriguez started as a head coach at programs that were already beaten up and he gave them a new direction offensively.  His winning percentage at WVU (a D-1 school) is better than Tressel's at Glenville State (a D-2 school)--but Tressel coached at YSU for 16 years.  Both coaches have equal experience coaching at the D-1 level.

Conclusions

Tressel knows how to win games, but the jury's still out on whether he's actually building a program the way RR is at Michigan or if he's relying on high-quality recruits to win games for him.  Given how badly he's been outschemed against quality opponents (1 for 3 in NC games, losing half his bowl games, losing 2 in a row to USC), I lean towards the latter.

As for RR, either the 2012 apocalypse has hit Michigan 4 years early, or his WLP at Michigan is skewed because he's only coached for two seasons.

maznbluwolverine

May 27th, 2010 at 9:03 PM ^

I agree with Barwis, I support whoever the coach is, good, bad, or indifferent until he's not the coach anymore.  Complaining about the coach does not do one bit of good.