Beating a dead horse - the passing game
I have full confidence in RR to get the job done. Unfortunately I've succumbed to a lot of the talk out there that RR won't establish an intricate down field passing game. Maybe that's not to be expected in this offense, but I thoroughly believe it's necessary to have an effective down field passing game to compete with top teams.
You won't run the ball with ease against everybody. Go back to the OSU game and look how good of a game plan the staff had when the running game was completely shut down. Michigan has no trouble landing top offensive prospects from OL, to QB, to WR, so let's use them.
I'm probably being an alarmist but I'm worried about guys like Stonum becoming one of the greatest under used players to put on a Michigan uniform. Remember, I have full confidence in RR to get the job done. I understand that of 4 starting QB's we have had 3 freshmen and one walk-on start. Hard for any team to have a great passing game when you couple that with a patch work OL.
Just look at our RB situation. Yes it's very early, but we have the most inexperienced backfield I've seen at Michigan in a long time. Conversely we have a lot of promise in a young accurate QB Forcier, all the TE's back, and an experienced WR corps returning. I know RR isn't dumb, he knows what he's doing. But, this is just off season boredom mixed with something I've wondered over since RR was hired.
What I want to know is if anyone has reason to believe that Michigan will beef up the passing game? What are some of the reports from practice? Do you guys expect the offense to evolve a significant amount as time goes on?
Methinks that having a second year qb taking snaps (either Tate or Denard) will make you feel better. No more learning new passing plays on the bus trip to away games this year.
As he has said a million times, he didn't pass down field as much at WVU because he didn't have anyone that could. Once he gets a QB that shows he can, he will.
Q. What is Glen Winston's 2nd favorite activity, behind beating a live horse.
In reading your analysis, OP, you have succumb(ed) to a lot of "that talk" and this has made you seem a bit alarmist. That video on the front page today should make those feelings go away. The offense is the least of my current worries.
offense is improved on last year - no worry.
They carried the team last year.
Defense is still mega worry.
The only passing I am worried about is opponent's tight ends over the middle going 35 yards untouched like last year.
Although it was only one play, the 97-yd TD pass from Denard to Roundtree, which was thrown 100% perfectly, makes me think that the vertical game will return somewhat this year. I've watched it about 5 times now and it still amazes me. Having the moxie/swag/stones to throw a ball like that from the endzone shows me that Denard is starting to get some serious confidence in himself.
We're not going to put up Case Keenum numbers, but I think we can now mix vertical passing into the offense enough for success. Yeah, maybe this is wishful thinking, but we'll see.
It was a beautiful pass from Denard and you maybe right about his confidence in throwing. He has amazing speed when he runs that is for damn sure but I would love to see him throw the ball more when he has the chance too. Even more impressive than the throw was Roundtree's mad run up the field for a touchdown. That kid can motor when he's got a break!
You can put me on board this boat too. I think the possibilities are endless IF Denard wins this job AND becomes a good passing quarterback. Think Texas Tech + WVU.
not saying it can't happen, but I sure would be more confident if Denard had done that against the first D with a little bit of pressure on him.
He's improved tremendously, but will it translate in real games? I hope RR and staff aren't biting off their nose to spite their face. With all the current Denard chatter what if he's not the starter against UConn?
RR has said in multiple in interviews that the staff desires and need a vertical element to the passing game. They are not just ignoring the issue I am sure. If they were capable of having a consistent vertical threat, I am sure they would. There were a lot times last year Tate was freelancing in 1.5 seconds either by choice, or just plain running for his life and immediately looking for the slot or running back. How many times have you heard RR harp on Tate and Denard in interviews about not being so quick to freelance and execute the play as called. They are young players, teaching them to have patience, letting the play develop, and stepping into the pocket takes time. Although, with Tate's pedigree as far as coaching, I am a little surprised that part of his game isn't as second nature to him by now.
Yeah, the combo of loving Michigan's capital one bowl offense, Brian Kelly's offense, and the fact that the NFL has been a passing league for some time has me wishing and hoping to see a lot added to RR's offense.
Is it possible to have a crazy ninja air raid/zone read offense all at once?
Thanks for the responses and keep them coming.
They only have 20hrs a week to practice. It's rare in the NFL to have a #1 offense with a good pass/run combo...much less college.
We'll avg 40pts a game 1 way or another..just relax.
Nebraska averaged over 50 with T. Frazier shot putting passes.
You also have to remember that Oregon got to the Rose Bowl this past year with what I think was the 98th ranked passing offense in a scheme that is pretty comparable to ours. Masoli was basically a glorified running back in that offense and they did very well for themselves. Granted, they didn't beat Ohio State but anyone who watched the game could tell you that they were certainly in it and could have done it if it weren't for a few big plays.
I think RR has a good feel for the passing game, but don't think that we'll ever have an NFL-esque passing attack. This offense starts and ends with the running game and whether or not the QB can make the right reads there.
When I was growing up, as a kid my idol was Joe Montana. I would never forget how he would just drop back, stay calm, look down field and just bomb one over the heads of everybody for a massive 70 to 80 yard touchdown. I never liked the 49ers, I was a Packers fan but I loved watching Joe play on Sundays and seeing his arm strength. Quarterbacks now have to do just so much more than throw. They have to be able to sprint like a running back, scramble and at times from what I have seen in recent years even catch and punt. The game is so much faster and I am just stunned what a quarterback has to do now. Namath was another big name who could bomb a throw too.
I think that this is a valid concern. Our deep passing game (or lack thereof) may be more of a quarterback issue than a scheme issue though. For instance, it sounds like Gardner has more of a propensity to stay in the pocket longer and throw downfield. Whereas Tate and Denard seem to be locked in on the slot receivers thus far. I just hope that top level wideouts are not discouraged from coming to Michigan in the future. In order to ensure that this does not happen, our quarterbacks need to make a conscious effort to get guys like Stonum and Stokes the ball down field. Hopefully they can accomplish this as they mature.
that causes them to take off. If there is any surge by the D both of them are going to have issues seeing over the line. I'm not saying this should cause them to take off, but they might need to move a little to find a passing lane.
We saw on Saturday that DRob was willing to stay in the pocket, but the second team D generated little if any pressure. Tate for the most part was being harrassed all day. Devin has what 4+ inches on them so it makes it easier for him to stand tall and look over the line to find an open man.
Check out the West Virginia v. Oklahoma Fiesta Bowl, I think it's safe to assume that's what Rich Rodriguez wants out of his offense (He was there long enough to get his pieces), and it killed Oklahoma without a "downfield passing attack" (Not to say Pat White and Darius Reynaud didn't demolish them on the play action passes). Thus far Denard Robinson has shown flashes that he has that gamebreaking speed that would take away the necessity of a downfield passing game, and there are plenty of backs to plug in (Hopkins and Smith being my choice) to be a great compliment to Denard. Rodriguez's offense will be fine if Denard lives up to half the hype from this spring.
When Roundtree was on the field in the spring game, the ball was going to Roundtree regardless of who the QB was. Stonum did not even get a pass thrown to him, I felt bad for him since he is a Jr and his future is really in flux for being a major contributor for UM or not. Is it simply that Roundtree has the knack for getting open on every play or is it that the QB's see #12 better than the other WR's?
its a combination of the two. All the QBs seem to look to Roundtree first, and he gets open. Roundtree has a knack for finding ways to get open and the QBs feel comfortable giving it to him.
I think a lot of us forget how much the coaching style of Rodriguez can change with the players he is coaching. He was the offensive coordinator at Tulane in 1997-1998. Shaun King threw for around 3,500 yards and 38 passing touchdowns in 1998. I think most people only get caught up in his explosive running game attack at West Virginia and forget about how diverse his offense can be.
I am very confident in his ability to adapt to the personnel around him. It is hard to convince people around Michigan that he can do this though. I don't think people realize how inefficient the QB's he has worked with really are. Threet and Sheridan really couldn't run or throw efficiently in his first year. And he had true freshman at QB in his second year.
I would say a lot of our receiving corps(not just Stonum) talents are being wasted but I don't think it is a product of the system itself. The players running the system and especially the skills of the quarterbacks running the system will allow a vertical game. I think Denard and Tate are capable of a vertical passing game but they are still inexperienced and more apt to scramble than wait for the plays to develop. This destroys the vertical passing game in two ways. Scrambling doesn't allow the receiver to beat their man on the original play design and because they are scrambling their throwing mechanics are not conducive to making strong throws down the field.
Now what can we expect this year with two sophmore quarterbacks? I think we will see a major improvement in the vertical passing game for a couple reasons. Denard and Tate are more experienced with the system and the game will slow down for them. Two, our offensive line will most likely be better, allowing more time in the pocket for our QB's to throw down the field. It's very important to keep scrambling type QB's protected because often times they have the instinct to run when the pressure isn't necessarily bad enough to go into scrambling mode.
I think the offense will be great, let's hope the defense can do at least a little something this year.
Don't get me wrong, I like to watch the QB's chuck it all over the field as much as the next guy. However, this offense is all about the read option. Every play is built off that base. When you have a QB that the defense is really worried about running all over them, this scheme starts to really click. I feel like Tate doesn't scare anyone with his running ability, (except Notre Dame fans) and that's why I really am drinking the Denard Kool-aid right now. Denard could be half as good of a passer and be twice as productive in this offense.
The downfield passes will open up as the opposing defense keeps creeping up to stop the run. We really only need a few downfield passes per game to keep the other team honest. The rest will be all about the Spread 'n Shred - Go Blue!
Go back to the OSU game and look how good of a game plan the staff had when the running game was completely shut down.
What was wrong with the OSU gameplan? We moved the ball quite well; we just kept turning it over in OSU territory.
April 20th, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
I said Michigan had a GOOD game plan by opening things up in the passing game.