Beating a dead controversy
I know this is over and done with, but I didn't have the right Torx to do this to my old iMac tonight, so I decided to watch some Really Slow Interception Video Porn instead.
I had been somewhat heartened by the cameraphone shots over at Maize n Brew, but still hadn't convinced myself that Warren really had that pick all the way. So I stood real close to my TV and manned the Pause and Slow Forward buttons, and I am now completely and totally certain that Warren had the ball and just used [what's-his-guy] as a prop for his highlight reel. If I managed to pause on anything SCM didn't, I credit Comcast's DVR - it's the only thing Comcast does well, but slo-mo is really pretty good.
Anyway, on to the grainy amateur hour cellphone pics (click any pic for larger, even more distorted version):
SCM showed us that IU Guy (IUG henceforth) didn't cleanly stop/grab the ball as it was arriving -
But his (DirecTV? Not U-Verse, is all I know) DVR evidently didn't want to stop on the next frame, which shows that the ball got all the way through IUG and seems to have stopped only at Warren's facemask...
And I challenge anyone to point to a part of IUG's body that is outside of the football, where one's arms generally are when one has possession of it.
Unfortunately, as the players get close to being down by contact, the view gets worse. Still, we can see Warren with his knee down (a few ticks before SCM's 3rd frame), still holding the ball against his chest, although it's harder to declare unequivocally that IUG doesn't have his elbow hooked around the nose of the ball given all that's hidden:
If it even matters after that point, we can follow the ball even longer, no thanks to Obi Ezeh. Here we can see the ball, but whose arm is whose?
The ball gets even harder to see, but the arm situation starts to clear up a little...
Finally, the shot clears somewhat. Looks like that lighter arm (with pink band), which has been inside of the ball for the last two pics, is the outside arm of IUG!
Just for fun, the clearest shot shows us again that Warren has two hands on the ball, and he has been pressing the ball against the outside of IUG's forearm for the whole crazy trip.
For even more fun, I enjoyed (read: was really annoyed by) this moment, when "Justice Has Not Been Served" Guy actually circled the ball in the frame where the pick was easiest to see! (Your voice-over: "... the rules state that, on simultaneous possession - and there's the football, right there - on simultaneous possession it goes to the offense.")
September 29th, 2009 at 1:45 AM ^
Thanks.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:00 AM ^
frame by frame. Warren made a hell of a play on the ball to pick it off.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:56 AM ^
That frustrates me a little bit. If not for all the bitching about who had possession, the fact that this was by far the most impressive play of the day on defense, and possibly on offense, is lost on anyone that's not a Michigan homer. Without the controversy, this seems like an easy choice for a top play.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:03 AM ^
Lol this makes me miss DVR. Also you can tell who's arm it is in pic 4 because Donovan Warren's arm is the stronger one. Good work
September 29th, 2009 at 2:16 AM ^
Locking oneself in a cage with a dozen rabid bears, eating glass out of a biohazard container, putting ones hand into a garbage disposal, and mildly displeasing Mike Barwis.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:24 AM ^
What if you moderately displease Mike Barwis?
September 29th, 2009 at 3:51 AM ^
leave it to a michigan fan to actually want to make sure they got the call right. it bothered me, too, thinking we were gifted something we didn't earn.
looking at these and the photos over at maize and brew, i'm pretty happy they got the call right. after watching the replay on the notre dame out of bounds call, i was pretty happy they got that one right, too.
there's something dissatisfying in saying we won because the refs screwed up. this time we won because we won.
and that, my friends, is a satisfying feeling. even if the defense is young and the offense is young and they make mistakes. this team has a chance every week, and that makes this wolverine fan very happy.
go blue!
September 29th, 2009 at 7:14 AM ^
Listen, man: Who the hell cares if the refs might have blown a super tough call in real time? Not sure as hell me, and nor should you.
Them's the breaks. Sometimes you get 'em and sometimes you don't.
Life isn't fair and neither is sports.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:40 AM ^
Seems to me OSU still has to hear about a certain PI call. And I wonder how much Nebraska hears about a 5th down play.
It's just grating listening to everybody scream bias when, in fact, there is no bias. Most of the time people don't see or ignore the evidence to the contrary. At least the arguments here are well-informed. And people are willing to admit when they're wrong.
Mistakes are part of the game. Referee bias, hopefully, isn't.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:49 AM ^
Colorado had the Fifth Down play (and the guy didn't even score on the 5th down! He was short and the refs gifted them the TD)
Nebraska had the illegal kicked pass that was caught for a game-tying touchdown. Without that play Michigan is undisputed heavyweight champs in 1997.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:17 AM ^
or memory fail. or both. thanks for the correction.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:41 AM ^
It's the bitter fans of other teams that whine about the PI or the kicked pass or the 5th down. The teams that won those games? Well, fuck all a ya'll, they got the trophy.
September 29th, 2009 at 11:28 AM ^
1990 Colorado has to go down with 2007 LSU as one of the flukiest title teams ever. They lost a game, tied another AND needed a 5th down to win a third, and still were voted #1 in one of the polls.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:19 AM ^
As much as I hate losing because of a blown call, it feels hypocritical to revel in victory as the beneficiary of a blown call. These are great pix, and put they my conscience at ease. Thank you OP! Excellent work.
September 29th, 2009 at 6:33 AM ^
So you're saying that the announcers aren't always right? That Indiana didn't get robbed?
September 29th, 2009 at 7:08 AM ^
The color guy was so adamant that it was IU's ball that anyone who isn't a UM fan probably thinks IU got "robbed" and that the call was wrong. What really bothers me, though, is that they take the non sequitur leap and say that IU would have driven down the field and won the game.
Even if the refs had messed up the call and given IU the ball, IU wasn't going to pull off a drive against UM that fast.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:08 AM ^
It drove me nuts how the color guy just flatly stated that there was "simultaneous possession" at the beginning of the play, even though we couldn't tell from the replay angle they kept showing. Then at the end, after whining for a few minutes, he acknowledged that there wasn't a clear view of what happened before the players landed, and acted like that was the only basis for upholding the call - and then resumed complaining about how "justice" wasn't served. Way to put two and two together there, buddy.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:50 AM ^
Definitely the JV announcers. Pam Ward sucks and so did the color man (don't even care that I can't remember his name.)
September 29th, 2009 at 9:09 AM ^
I think it was Ray Bentley.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:11 AM ^
All the kvetching about it, and the Indiana guy NEVER had a chance, and never touched it.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:55 AM ^
+ 1 for using one of my favorite words...kvetching.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:23 AM ^
Somebody call Delany and get this guy a job in the Review booth.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:51 AM ^
Lynch has a weekly Tuesday press conference. I'll be shocked if no one asks him about this play. And I'm sure he watched the tape. Let's hope he saw it this way, and admits it was a great play by Warren. (Not that anyone in America pays attention to Bill Lynch's press conference.)
September 29th, 2009 at 12:32 PM ^
If he threw something at a reporter every week, I guarantee we'd all watch.
September 29th, 2009 at 4:46 PM ^
I read Lynch's presser, and nobody asked about this play.
http://iuhoosiers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/092909aad.html
September 29th, 2009 at 9:50 AM ^
I regret that I have but one Plus to give.
Here's a plussing Wolverine for ya:
September 29th, 2009 at 12:38 PM ^
Beautiful! Perfect.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:03 PM ^
Well if were beating a dead horse....
I outlined UM in blue and IU in Red and the ball in green to help it stand out
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9621/warrendowncopy.jpg
The ball is cradling between IUG's upper and lower right arm, with UMG's right hand over the top. IUG's left arm is holding his right arm, UMG's left arm is undercutting IUG's right arm but not really doing anything.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9621/warrendowncopy.jpg
Nothing has really changed in this photo except that the 2 have slowed down. The ball is still being cradled in IUG's right arm and clamped there by UMG's right hand. Though I do think UMG has gotten his left arm between IUG's right arm and IUG's body which is what will allow him to wrestle the ball away.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7223/firstwhosearmcopy.jpg
Here you can clearly see both of IUG's hands, and see the ball is still at least partially possessed by him. Both players are firmly on the ground which means the play is over, UMG does not establish possession of the ball, it is a mutual catch.
I have no idea what that ref saw to call it an Int. but it should be noted that he saw the play from the top right of of the screen. That means that he would have seen the back of both players and not the ball during these seconds of play.
*attempting to fix the photos....
September 29th, 2009 at 3:04 PM ^
In your first photo, for your description to be true, IUG would have to be squeezing so hard that the ball is actually flattened way out about twice as long as normal.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:09 PM ^
Not really, The ball looks to be oriented somewhere between a Front and Side view, plus the photos are grainy and there are a lot of shadows to try and look through.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:39 PM ^
I see the ball tilted past the crook of IU's elbow and right between Warren's arms. I do not see what you're seeing, even with your lines.