He'll stay committed until he isn't.
BBrown: Statement From Jabrill Peppers
For some reason reading this made me chuckle and not feel so bad.
"2013 Michigan Football: Life Goes On."
There are some really obvious Corky jokes to make right there, but I'm not going to be the one to do it.
...or he reads the comments here. This is Michigan--we don't wait around for other people to do our negative recruiting for us.
seen a lot of people calling for Hoke's head... yet. I was one of the most vocal blog members against the Hoke hire and I even think he needs to stick around through his contract. Borges, on the other hand, is not a BCS level coordinator.
There's been a few, maybe not a lot, but what I'm really talking about is this sort of thing:
That's on the kid's hello post, where we welcome him to the program and thank him for his commitment. It's probably the first and maybe the last time he visits the blog, and what does he see? A poster--and not a new troll but somebody that's been here since RR days--says it'll be a waste of his talent if he actually has to play for the coaches he just committed to.
One post like that is too many. Wrong time, wrong place.
As an FYI - Hoke's contract is through 2017 and he is currently getting paid $4.15 million this year.
It's a standard duty to extend coach's contract before it expires for recruiting purposes. Coaches get fired before their contract runs out or they take a different job before it runs out.
Except that wasn't an extension... his original contract had a term of 6 years and the kicker is that he has an expensive buy-out provision ($4 million this year and $3 million next year).
Therefore, my point is that Michigan will not pay $4 million to cut him loose.
As an aside, if Coach Hoke were to terminate (which is governed by Section 4.04 - Termination by Head Coach) that would be totally different than Coach Hoke being fired by the school (which is governed by Section 4.01 - Termination without cause).
Don't worry. Brandon will just jack up prices even more to pay for any buyout.
...for poor performance not be considered termination "for Cause". I've never seen the contract but it seems weird that firing a coach who might be bad at their job a question of the employer's convenience.
Failure to perform is not the same as performing poorly. For cause would be he just doesn't show up, gets in legal trouble, gets in NCAA trouble or fraud.
Here is the contract if you want tor read it.
you bet your ass, Hoke will be fired by then. Money is not an issue considering they're in the black with their profits/revenues.
Contracts don't mean dick, as they're only good for exit clauses. Just because it is through 2017, doesn't mean he can't be fired or leave earlier than that.
Peppers now says though still committed to Michigan he will visit other schools after graduating. Does this mean that Hoke (his rule is visit another school after committing means the offer is off the table) will withdraw his offer to him?
This is a 5 star. I think he still has a spot if he wants it.
He doesn't "withdraw the offer" He considers someone still taking visits to be uncommitted, and the spot is formally open until he recommits.
You can be damn sure the spot will stay open, too.
Disagree completely. Almost no one on this blog is calling for Hoke to be gone. Nearly everyone is calling for Borges' head because its the logical move.
Al, what is your plan for saturday?
No, the fact you are going above and beyond today in order to defend Borges. Carry on though, it is hilarious.
Do you want an award or something?
Who cares what "40-50" or so crazy fans think? You're being a little hypersensitive lashing out at anyone that criticizes the job Hoke's done considering his ridiculously high salary.
That . . . is a bouillon spoon!
I think it's hilarious that people are arguing on a Michigan sports blog with Mr. Carson from Downton Abbey.
Exactly what I was thinking the entire time. If a highly touted recruit with a vast support base is openly stating he's keeping his options open because there is now a slight possibility Hoke will be gone after this, it means one of two things: Rival coaches are trying to drop hints at him that Hoke will be gone, or legitimate sources are telling him there's an actual chance this may happen.
MGoBloggers have not started this rumor, nor are they the ones perpetuating it. It's pretty much an accepted fact that the temperature on Hoke's seat is about to get a little bit toasty depending on the outcome of Saturday's game. You'd be a fool to think otherwise.
So there's still a chance!!!
That is ridiculous. There absolutely is a chance he gets fired this year. Now I'd honestly be utterly shocked if he was let go and think the odds are quite minute at best, but I'm not going to pretend that his job is completely safe at this point. A loss to Ohio puts him on a piping hot seat with a one year countdown until termination unless he turns it around (with a small wildcard chance we break it off with him after this season).
I think the comments on ESPN about Hoke being on the Hot Seat hold more sway, than fans upset about the coaches performance.
What drives me insane are the people who take one phrase out of context and use it
So you admit that you're insane.
+1. This comment works on so many levels.
How many would be one time posters? How many have already banned? How many established members are calling for Hoke's head? Literally no one on the staff is. I cannot think of one person who consistently posts here who has been asking for Hoke to be fired on a regular basis.
Again: The only thing the vast majority of people are asking for is the worst OC for the past month of college football to be gone.
I think you are wrong. 2010, when there were hundreds of posts daily about RR being fired? Yeah, I'm with you. But its not even close to the same atmosphere. There's the occasional comment about Hoke being gone, but even then, it usually goes hand in hand with something like: I think Hoke deserves at least two more years so long as he gets rid of Borges.
There are articles being ran in MSM about Hoke potentially not being the guy, but I think its a real stretch to blame MGoBlog or its members this time around.
He needs to do a better job from here through next season. There's only so much blaming the other guy that you can do. And there's only so much blaming the youth that you can do. The players have to show improvement and another 4-5 loss season is not good enough in this dumpster fire of a conference.
I'd have to think that recruits are smart enough to realize that seeing these "dozens of posts" (which I seem to have missed, especially if they come from reputable mgoblog people) are just a natural byproduct of being on the internet and no real indication of the fate of a certain coach. These recruits are probably more informed than 95 percent of commentors with these situations.
I'm sure he didn't hear that from other schools recruiting him. Nope, he got it from an internet message board.
The problem is you can provide no evidence to support your claim and now you're ignoring the logical person refuting your argument.
Let's see the endless posts on this site similar to the 2010 season with RR. If there are so many, it should be easy.
I think Mr. Carson has a point and shouldn't have to defend himself... After every game theirs been a snowflake thread on coaching, hell you're going to find someone posting remarks about firing and so, fansosing faith in our players and/or suggesting people stop purchasing season tickets. It may feel good to vent and seek others with similar feelings on the program, but players/recruits read this blog and a majority of the comments do more harm than good...
It's reached the point that people are putting comments like "I pity this kid" in the hello post after a commitment.
It's lunacy to think that a recruit doesn't notice that, in the post welcoming him to the program. It's a punch to the gut at exactly the wrong time, and shit like that gets around.
Nothing to add to this whole conversation outside of the fact that I am 100% on Mr. Carson's side, unpopular as it looks.
That MGoBlog, a place that has expressed its support for Brady Hoke this entire season, is somehow at fault for a player's possible decommitment?
Carson hasn't produced a shred of evidence supporting his original statement. Al Borges has been the subject of almost all termination talk at MGoBlog. Where are the numerous posts expressing the opinion that Hoke should be gone after this year? Or that they've heard Hoke is gone after this year?
"Where do you think that comes from if not internet media?"
I don't know... rival coaches and the non-internet media seem quite likely.
i believe when hand was lost peppers began to rethink and is just making hokes' possible departure an excuse
had nothing to do with each other. This is 100% on firing rumors. Peppers is only doing his due diligence in case Hoke is dismissed.
Considering UM fired the last guy after three years it should not us surprise us that some will think that will be the case again.
Peppers is gone regardless of what happens with Hoke. People might as well come to terms with that right now.
or perhaps from this guy:
Referencing the hot seat.
40 to 50. this is a blog with a wide readership. there will be 115,000 fans in the stadium on saturday. there will be millions watching on tv. and "40 to 50 posters" (numbers pulled from ass) constitutes a "god-awful fanbase" to you?
so it's not just the "40 to 50" people who spread rumors on this particular site, and there are actually many other reasons for why this fanbase is "god-awful." will you share? based on the argument you've made on this thread, it's those who spread rumors and those who want to fire Hoke who you are aiming at. both are very small minorities of the fanbase. so can you explain why you would refer to the whole fanbase as "god-awful"?
I highly doubt any recruit cares what 40-50 posters on a blog think about the coach. He could go to Alabama and there would be some idiots on a message board calling for Saban to be fired for some reason.
You have only one 3 of the last 4 National Championship. WTF happened that one year? We will never forget and we will not forgive you (until you leave us for Texas or USC)..... And we return to a normal team that only wins a NC every 10 or 15 years.....
I think "Fire Hoke" had high numbers on LSA's 'State of our open threads'. It's a techie society though, so, sadly, a rumor by even one person can grow legs.
"Fire" did. Again, I would bet that mainly is directed at Borges. Plus, during the game a lot of things are said that aren't really meant.
About 80% of the "fire" references for the season have been directed at Al Borges, with about 7 or 8% being directed at Hoke. Hardly enough to start rumors, I would think, but enough to make an outsider to MGoBlog think that we're probably off our meds and require sedation. As others have said, the chance that Hoke would be canned is likely small enough that we need no bother with it.
Eh, during a game thread? I would think that 7 or 8 percent would be par for the course for an under performing team as rational thinking would be at its lowest point.
I would just like to say that despite the fact that I have been a board member for over 3 years I have only recently become aware of how unbiased you remain, citing facts rather than emotion, respecting almost all posters opinions, and not getting rattled by other posters no matter irrational they may be. I think that is fantastic and I just wanted to point it out.
I thought it's because Michigan is playing like crap and is likely to lose by 20+ to our biggest rival this week. Damn Fans!
Bad play is the nutrient rich pile of shit that rumors grow from.
What causes people to spread rumours?
You are right sir!
More likely they came from negative recruiting by other schools still after our best recruits. Some of these other programs will stop at nothing to poach an elite player like Peppers.
This is 100% correct. The amount of complaining and second-guessing on this blog is absolutely amazing and a kid like Peppers likely reads such posts and other material. Stop the bitching about every single decision Hoke and Company make and it will improve the atmosphere. As an example of how stupid the average post is on this blog, some idiot was complaining that Hoke used a timeout before we scored at the end of the second quarter because it would literrally result in a 14-point swing in Iowa's favor for some unspecified reason. Most of the posts on here are worthless at best and - now we know -- harm the program at worst. Each and every one of you: get a life.
I didn't realize that as a Michigan fan and alumnus, I'd have to toe the corporate line and not think and analyze for myself.
If Hoke had a better record at this time and if the team had not flamed out so spectacularly the last few games, those rumors would have no traction. And Peppers would have nothing to doubt. And this thread wouldn't exist.
Good job defending yourself from the group think. This blog may not be starting the rumors, but anyone visiting it over the last few weeks has certanily seen enough to get the impression that Hoke is on the hot seat.
At least there isn't a front page post irrationally blasting Hoke for some comment at a presser like the Freep used to do when Rich Rod was here. Now, that would be bad!
The sharks are circling Ann Arbor.
When the sharks circle, you're supposed to join together and kick. Instead the fans of this blog are holdling their heads underwater.
And I'm sorry but if we've fallen overboard, this program has millions of very powerful feet to kick with. And spears, and millitary rifles, and ship-to-shore missiles and anything else we need until we get out of the water. The sharks should be afraid of us.
We won't be floating around out here for weeks (metaphorical seasons). Things will get better, and soon.
No question he releases a statement or gets an on-air interview.
Dave Brandon finding a way to get his face on TV? I don't believe it.
No question he releases a statement or gets an on-air interview.
That's just what I think. Hard to fault Peppers; his calculation is that he chose Micihgan, in large part (although maybe not exclusively) to play for Hoke and Mattison. Fair enough.
So assure the young man, beyond any doubt, that Hoke and Mattison are here to stay. Not necessarily a press conference; nor even a press release.
This is of course an object lesson in how recruiting under Rich Rodriguez was so badly damaged. When the "he will be gone" whispers started as soon as the Free Press published the August 30, 2009 Sunday edition. There is nothing so fatal to recruiting as a coaching change that is dragged out over time.
I really dislike the inaccuracy and innuendo that is promoted on Twitter. But this latest Twitter maloccurrence seems to have a ring of honesty about it. The young man is concerned that the coach he committed to might get fired. I find it refreshing that at least that much honesty escaped the standard filters.
Where is he getting Hoke rumors? Other schools possibly?
probably fair-weather fans on MGoBlog...
Never understood this. "Fanhood" doesn't have to mean undying praise. It can mean wishing something happens that you believe is best for the program. Somethimes, we have to remember that Michigan is bigger than whatever coach and team we are referencing. If you want Hoke gone and complain about the product, you can still be a fan of Michigan, maybe not this team, but Michigan.
Absolutely true. But you cannot at the same time bitch about a kid changing his mind when the coach he committed to play for is run off.
I think you're talking about a select few of the dissenters who are pushing for positive reform. Most of the statements that I seem to be reading are ones that suggest we throw the baby out with the bath water.
I wish Coach Rodriguez was afforded 1/4 of the protection Hoke has been given. Coach Rodriguez was nailed to the cross by 30% of the fanbase before he ever coached a game.
I don't think 30% of the fans were down on Rodriguez before he coached a game. 30% of the "football letterwhiners" might have been; I don't know. But I think that especially if MGoBlog is a good barometer (it might not be), there was a lot of excited support for Rodriguez in the beginning.
But I'll bet that after the Free Press did its thing, fully 30% or more of the Michigan football constituency in all sectors were against the guy. "Major violations" and all.
Still, I agree -- Hoke is afforded infinitely more protection than Rodriguez was at this point. I won't complain about Hoke, since I was angered at the way Rodriguez was treated. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Give Hoke a vote of confidence, now.
Or, maybe you are a logical fan who can recognize poor decision making and disastrous underachievement when you see it.
Using your logic, Charlie Weis would still be at Notre Dame, Greg Robinson would still be at Syracuse, Gene Chizik would still be at Auburn, Mike Dubose would still be at Alabama, Ron Zook would still be at Florida, Bill Callahan would still be at Nebraska, etc etc.
Stop blaming the fans for the shitty state of the program and stop blaming people who see things for the way that they are and who don't live in a fantasy world where sunshine and prosperity are always around the corner.
It's absolutely ridiculous to fire a coach in his 3rd season unless he's just completely tanking the program.
Umm, RR was comletely tanking the program. Unless, of course, you asked him. Or, perhaps you might like the statement rephrased as 'the program was completely tanking under RR.' Either way, the ball coach has to go.
3-9, 5-7, 7-6. Then Hoke took his players and had his best and only good season. Coach Rodriguez has continued the upswing in Arizona by beating multiple top-10 teams, including a win against what looked to be a NCG caliber Oregon team.
Then there'd be no hot seat for a good, long time.
Underpromise and overdeliver.
And if you can't do that, underpromise.
One RR, trending upwards, with the support of a $600K DC coordinator and a few more recruiting classed, plus a senior Denard and smooth transition to a well prepared DG, who knows how high he would have gone?
Other, Hoke, trending downwards, whether he can arrest that and coach the players he has into a better unit is yet to be seen, next year with Borges could potentially be make or break, a repeat of this year would likely be grounds for making a change at OC, if nothing else.
Another two years of RR's recruiting and we wouldn't have any offensive linemen at all. It'd be Miller and four walkons next year.
We can argue about exactly why that was happening, but it wasn't hard to see that the wheels had come off.
Weis: 9-3, 10-3, 3-9, 7-6, 6-6.
Hoke: 11-2, 8-5, assume 7-6 or 8-5.
So slightly better by total win count; but unnervingly close, esp. if you think about how close Akron and N'western games were.
So the two close wins could be losses....but the three close losses couldn't be wins?
The solution to the problem is simply win some games. If they pull off an upset of OSU the trajectory of the program changes. Just stop the bleeding and these problems go away. If this game is close, but a loss and then they go on to a nice bowl win it will probably help. If they lose out, none of this will improve.
This is all a result of poor play! It's that simple. I believe this team can beat OSU if they play the way they did against ND. For that to happen, they need to convince Gardner to let loose. No more worrying about turnovers. They are going to happen, but he is better when he is improvising.
You just have to take the good with the bad to have a shot in this game. Constraining him to avoid turnovers is not resulting in wins. Take the good with the bad and be ok with the outcome.
While I agree that calling for the firing of Hoke, before we see if he makes any offensive staff adjustments is premature (just like calling for Rich Rod's head and not allowing him to bring in Casteel), there are people out there who did not feel that Hoke was the right hire to begin with, or perhaps do not now.
So, I think a rational fan could make an argument that we should move on - and still be a real fan.
I agree that the "fans" lobbing hand "fire Hoke" hand grenades, and shouting for Devin Gardner to get pulled - are not acting in the best interest of the fan base right now.
Personally, I wasn't impressed by the Hoke hiring, but it was done (and I was subsequently impressed by the Mattison hiring), so I believe it is in the best interest of the program to keep Brady Hoke until his guys are Juniors and Seniors at this juncture. That said, I believe it is time to seriously question whether we should continue to retain Al Borges, especially at the rate we are paying him.
The question I ask myself is do I believe Al Borges will produce the next Tom Brady, and the next Anthony Carter. Al doesn't recruit, and it seems the biggest names in those two positions are waiting to see and choosing other schools.
I think it is pretty obvious if you take the time to read this blog, that the believe we are young and improving on defense (and are ranked more highly there), and young in places but a predictable tire fire on offense (ranked at the bottom of BCS schools). Thus masses are upset with the offense - in spite of the youth - and that is where change for the better needs to happen. There is a fringe calling for Hoke, and saying Mattison and the defense sucks too.
You know - ESPN and other MSM are rumbling about Hoke's hot seat for the hype at this point. Then there is Chat sports ....
UNDERLYING MESSAGE FOR JABRILL PEPPERS: the internet is an interesting place. There are a lot of emo yahoos posting irrational opinions. It's OK and wise to consider fall back options if there is a change. I would bet that Hoke and the defensive coaching staff are a lock to stay for a while. There isn't any indication that the offensive staff will change. If they do, it will be a move for the positive. Stay the course and Go Blue young man!
whoops...I messed up. I meant the whole being a "fairweather" fan. Was trying to say complaining when things are bad doesn't make you fairweather. No longer being a fan/following the team when things are bad does.
Negative recruiting is very real, from everything I've gathered over the years. Could just be the internet too, but I'd be shocked if opposing coaches aren't trying to undermine Hoke.
...post in the ESPN B1G blog that talks about Hoke being on the hot seat, or at least should be in their opinion.
So you must have been away from here the past 6 weeks were at least once daily someone posts a "Fire....." thread.
How about here?
Recruits actually think Hoke might not be at Michigan in the near future?!?! It must be to take one of the NFL jobs that opens up this year. /s
Hoke was going to the NFL, now it is Hoke is going to get shit canned! All to have recruits lose confidence in signing with our team. Other rumors in the past did not spread as much as they do now. Like LC with a terminal disease and he wold be retiring in the the 2002-2006 era!
Fuck that is not good
I will stop panicking as Hoke is not going anywhere.
Agree. Hoke has a long and expensive contract. Borges... on the other hand.... no comment.
I remember AnnArbor.com got a .pdf of the Borges contract via FOIA way back when. I don't recall any buyout clause.
Borges gets $650k annually. His contract is through 2015. Seems like the remaining $650k would be the parting gift, but I haven't seen his underlying contract posted.
Hoke has 2 years to "git it dun", Borges 1. Book it.
Buyout clauses come with a double FIOIA indemnity. Everyone knows that. You have to FOIA the contract, then FIOIA the FIOIA in order to reveal the buyout clause. Perhaps you should get on that.
btw, I was mistaken; it was the Freep that FOIA'ed the Borges contract. AA.com reported on the Freep report.
Here's the funny part, which I'll mention just because you seem like a real prick with that post. You can see that Borges contract .pdf, if you pay the Freep archives. If I had FOIA'ed the contract, I'd have given it to Brian and you'd be able to look at it now.
I just like giving you a hard time, because you get so worked up. Yes, that probably makes me a prick. I apologize.
Good enough for me.
Honestly, if I was a high caliber recruit like that, I'd be taking all of my officials. I'd also make sure that if I was taking them after the season, I was taking them in the middle of the school week.
to give Ball State a look
I can't believe we are even discussing bullshit coaching rumors.
The ND game feels like it was 8 months ago.
If I had gone to sleep after the ND game and woke up today I'd be like WTF? Who am I kidding, I'm saying WTF anyway. As bitter as I am about the fizzling of this season, I have no real yearning to dump Hoke. I can forgive a lot if he makes the kind of big boy (no visual pun intended) decisions that Beilein made when his staff wasn't cutting it. If he keeps Borges because he's grateful for Al giving him a ride to work, all bets are off.
First it was NFL rumors, now I suppose it's possibly being fired.
Thank you for posting this and allowing me to go back to being annoyed by my family up until Saturday.
Front page this.
Who's saying Hoke will not have a job here next year? Oh wait, probably every other team out there trying to recruit Peppers. Brandon needs to get out in front of this now.
Except in the world we live in, a public "vote of confidence" in a coach is interpreted as a kiss of death. Nothing Brandon can say will appease the public... unless its announcing Borges' canning immediately after the OSU game.
...a very important change in what it would mean to be a Michigan football player would cause him to re-think his commitment? That's...so...reasonable.
You and I may think that there is a 0.0% chance that Coach Hoke gets fired. However, the young man is about to make one of the biggest decisions of his life. I can't blame him for trying to protect himself in case things change when he hears the rumors.
not just next year, so he has to assess what might happen in 2-3 years if the current results persist. Having Hoke stay only 1 more year and then leave would the worst case scenario for him, depending on who replaces him.
With the rumors about Coach Hoke possibly not being there I need to make sure that I have options and have seen other places...
Well, that's reassuring.
As a guy who talks to recruits often, do you hear a lot of negative recruiting disinformation about Michigan, other schools from these kids? I'm shocked that there is even a hint out there that Hoke's job is in jeopardy after this season and can only conclude some schools are spreading rumors to get him to break his commitment.
No I don't hear that from them. I honestly don't really ask about it though either. I try to avoid bringing up negative topics for obvious reasons.
I have heard it from people who know some of the coaches though that it takes place A LOT.
Do you know if he reads this blog? I know if I were a 17-18 year old kid reading this on a daily basis I would be convinced that not only will the entire staff be fired but that the sky above Ann Arbor is crashing down to earth at any moment.
just in case Brandon doesn't answer, I have it on good authority that Space Coyote is Jabrill Peppers.
So yeah, he reads the blog.
"Coaches" saying Hoke may be on the block, and we'd make a run at Les Miles. Wonder who these "Coaches" are, and if they've been talking to our recruits. (Casts an eye toward Urban Meyer who has recently offered one of our commits ...)
I seem to recall Sam Webb mentioning on the radio that one of the criteria for Hand was coaching stability. Sam seemed to think it was in reference to Saban leaving for Texas, but maybe it was about Hoke. I wonder if he was getting the same feedback in the form of negative recruiting that Peppers is getting?
Pull out all the stops in this game and get the W.
LOVE how all the fair weather fans calling for Hoke to be fired the last few weeks are now like "who ever said he will be fired? He is our coach and always will be"
Those fans crack me up cause they know nothing about football.
But nobody wants to say they're contributing in any way. Say a recruit looks young and you're damaging the program. Say the coaches should be fired and having virulent rants on the front page, and that's not going hurt recruiting at all, nooooooooo.....
I think the complaint was that saying the kid looked young hurt the blog.
Quoting Brian from the thread in question (his reaction post, not the original thread):
I don't care if you don't think it's offensive. The upside is zero--lame snark on a message board--and the downside is getting my ass reamed out by the department for stuff I didn't even post
Pretty sure it was the department's response that triggered the reaction. It's possible this was just a hypothetical but I had an exchange with BiSB later in the thread that made me pretty sure it had happened.
Fans don't have to say anything really. What's happening on the field, speaks for itself.
That's exactly it. Other teams don't need to say a word, either. Everything that needs to be said is screaming from the football field every Saturday.
You should reference the post that says the coaches should be fired.
Losing and looking bad in the weak Big Ten, when telling kids you are going to compete for Championships is what hurts recruiting. Recruiting comes easy off of a BCS win in your first season, but not so much when you start losing and look bad doing it.
Rumors don't take hold unless there is some underlying weakness. Just get it done on the field! Change the narrative!
Who? Where are they? Where are these posts?
Perhaps during the Game Day thread you could find some instant anger, but again, almost all talk about firing someone has been about Al Borges.
Hot off the presses, hoping we lose, and not hardly alone. You can do the rest of your own homework.
So you have one post from a guy with two points who joined today and this site is responsible for driving off recruits? I rest my case.
Meanwhile, you were easily one of the most negative board members during the RR years and lobbed things out about those coaches that were far worse than the general "I think Hoke should get 5 years as long as Borges goes" crowd this year.
Your hypocrisy level is rising.
the same people back then would refute any impact that the level of fanbase vitriole might have, apparently things have changed since then and now it does impact recruits.
Not calling out anyone in particular, but methinks there would be an extremely interesting exercise in juxtaposition should anyone go back through old posts and compare the comments from pro-RR / anti-RR people back then and the same people making anti-HokeBorges / pro-HokeBorges comments now. I'm going to guess a whole lot of crossover on both sides.
As soon as someone who was an RR supporter back in the day says 'inexcusable!' on here, I'll know we have come full circle.
That you're too lazy to see for yourself hardly makes your case. You don't even have to leave this thread:
And that's just in this thread. Not the whole site. Or, as pointed out in the last one, sites a lot less reserved than this one. And also not counting all the shot of how he can't coach or do this and that which might as well being saying "FIRE HOKE!!"
And funny you should call out another poster as not being credible because he joined yesterday....when you joined yesterday. Guess we shouldn't take what you have to say as reasonabl or reflective.
Though you seem to have a really good knowledge of what's gone on here for years....hmmmm...you wouldn't happen to be someone who was banned and just had to come back someplace you weren't wanted? Yeah, that up's your credibility.
And please, go back and look for any time I posted "fire Rich." After it was done did I say I can see the reasons why it had to happen? Sure, But I didn't want us to fail to the point where we had to fire the coach. I don't want us to do so now, either. But Hoke has built up a better track record and if he can avoid losing these recruits, has built up a far stronger base. But even with all that next year will be a big year for him. But go back and find evidence of your made up musings. That should at least keep you busy for a good long time and stop you from posting nonsense.
Well that makes perfect sense. Who can blame the kid?
ESPN insider had an article earlier in the week discussing the possiblity of Hoke being shown the door so it is certainly not just coming from people on the board that are starting rumors.
IIRC the articles I read on ESPN were just that he's on the hot seat and that he willl definitely have some heat on him next year, but nothing about him actually being fired because that is idiotic.
Hoke is not in danger of losing his job, at least not this year.
Either way, Jabrill is not going somewhere for 1 year. In all likelihood he is going somewhere for 3 years - does anyone believe we will have stability at all coaching positions for the next 4 years?
It was all speculation coming from 'coaches' of the 'wouldn't be surprised' variety because click here, hot seats and even hotter takez.
The Internet is like a feedback loop from hell when it comes to sports fandom.
I'm not saying it wasn't all speculation, just that it's not only the people on this board that have taken notice of the piss poor performance of our football teams and the ramifications for the coaching staff
even if there's no source for those rumors, it's reasonable to wonder what will happen to the coach of an underachieving team that keeps losing in crushing fashion and looks completely lost on offense.
All the talk of firing all the coaches leads to instability with the recruits. Instability leads to decommitments because the recruit isn't sure that the coach he loves will be there when he gets there. All those fire everyone threads are not helping us. Focus our positive energy on beating Ohio.
just adds fuel to a growing firestorm in Ann Arbor...I for one am VERY disappointed it appears the wheels are coming off the wagon YET AGAIN..
I know I've been MIA for a while, but holy cow guys take 'er easy. Am I the only one who has 99% confidence Hoke is going nowhere?
I honestly don't think Borges is going anywhere either, fwiw.
My guess is that very few people believe Hoke will lose his job.
I have to agree with you. Brandon is giving the entire coaching staff one more year. If no improvement next year Hoke will be forced to fire someone. Brandon hired Hoke and with a new president coming in, he will be tied to Hoke as well.
I wish that I knew where people keep getting this idea that Borges's job is safe from. Throughout college football, I don't think that I have never seen a coordinator survive the utter debacle that has been the offense this season. Hoke has replaced coordinators before. Beilien replaced assistants after the disastrous 2009-2010 basketball season. Brandon doesn't have a track record one way or the other. It's possible that Borges and Funk will both be back next year, but there's no reason for people to assume that it will happen.
I am not 99% confident. I 100% confident. Hoke is going nowhere nothwithstanding the average idiot on this board.
every time something like this happens it seems like the kid ends up elsewhere. I'm sure it isn't true, but it seems that way. My gut tells me he will be wearing an Alabama or Auburn jersey next year (because don't they all...). Funny how quickly that recruiting momentum seems to have vanished.
Didn't happen with David Dawson. Didn't happen with Henry Poggi.
I know it's happened before (Pharoah Brown, etc), but it doesn't always happen.
Hoke is a lot of things...among them, perhaps the best recruiting closer in the B1G.
...can squash this with one phone call.
If he is taking Official visits doesn't that mean he's no long considered a commit because of the no visit policy
Maybe Dave Brandon should help us out a little and just make a statement about how secure coach Hoke is with Michigan. Maybe something like this: 'Fire Coach Hoke? Heck, I hope he doesn't fire me!'
If he was my son I'd encourage it. Don't want him left hanging in January if the staff is removed without having seen any other schools in almost a year
He better not take any visits!!!
If you are fantastic, it's NFL. If you are not doing well, it's get fired. No one's job is 100% safe. Wait. Iowa. That Ferentz dude is a lifer. No matter what he does....
Has already made a call to him to reassure him that he isn't going anywhere.
Think David Dawson....everyone figured he was gone too...but he wasn't.....Jabril is UofM all the way....he can literally change a team to become great by himself ala Charles Woodson....I think in about 2 years....I will look back on all this and laugh at it....
Didn't ESPN have an article up talking about Muschamp and Hoke having their seats warmed because of setting expectations high, etc.?
I really really really really hope Peppers stays committed. I'm not a huge fan of Hoke at the moment, but there's so many factors that it can't all be on him... no idea why this year feels worse than 2/3 Rich Rod years, but it does :-(
There was an "article" in which some guy who likes sports claimed Hoke is on the hot seat with no sources, and in spite of Brandon declaring his support for the coaching staff.
Troll, tell us who you used to be.
There are no real rumors about Hoke being gone. There are only angry message board posters. We all know Hoke will (and should) be back in 2014 (Borges, however, is a different story).
But I can't ever blame a recruit for wanting to keep his options open.
Of fair weather fans, we can lump Llyod Carr in the mix for not supporting the head football coach at Michigan. Man the more I think about it that man has driven this program down to where it is today. The man does not take enough blame for coasting in recruiting his last few years and for causing problems behind the scenes when his man was not hired. I just wish it was talked about more. ALL of the problems with this program have started with him. I hope No is pissed off somewhere.
Just Stop. And who the hell is"No"?
Statement is wrong.
That is all I have to say.
Getting lazy on your way out the door. Plus over half of the players on that team were Gary Moller' s recruits. Just the facts.
Would have never fired Moeller. He was a damn good football coach. In my humble opinion the best we have had since Bo retired.
Jesus Christ. Now we are bashing Carr? The guy who -- unlike Bo -- actually won a national title? I wasn't on this site then, however, I can only imagine the vile things you guys were saying about Carr from 03-07.
But I remember surfing on a dial up modem and hitting some of the online newspaper articles on Michigan. Not much content but the comments were all troll driven!
This site would have had a meltdown when the coaches on went for NU!
But I remember surfing on a dial up modem and hitting some of the online newspaper articles on Michigan. Not much content but the comments were all troll driven!
This site would have had a meltdown when the coaches on went for NU!
But I remember surfing on a dial up modem and hitting some of the online newspaper articles on Michigan. Not much content but the comments were all troll driven!
This site would have had a meltdown when the coaches on went for NU!
He also lost to Appalachian State. That was my first game as a U of M student. I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive him for that
...so I can sort of maybe see your point....
Well, no. I can't.
I've seen this happen. There's a certain breed of man that starts this. I would call it the High School Football Creeper. All towns have them and they are easy to spot when a star prospect comes on the scene. They have no affiliation or favorite team. They all look the same: baseball cap, sunglasses, goatee, hoodie under a windbreaker and pale jeans; age 45-60. They're generally friendly until you start talking to them and you realize they are insane. They think they know everything about football so they try to be a part of the process so they can feel important. And they are telling anybody who will listen, "I don't why he would go to Michigan when they're gonna fire that coach of theirs."
Or are you following me as I drive my 78 Camaro and listen to 8-tracks of Steely Dan?
Did we really need a second thread? Or is it so there would be one with your name on it?
Considering Brandon is this blogs resident guru on recruiting, I for one want to hear what he knows.
It was a publicly released statement. Not sure why it's being framed as some kind of scoop. But the name does look good there.
That Brandon is doing his job relaying the information to the people on this board?
He wants to play quality ball on a quality team and be coached up by a professional. Nothing more, nothing less. Of course he should look around if we can't manage it here. We are not managing it now. It's about results and how our program is trending.
Do you really not understand that you're compounding the problem?? This is total bullshit. The kid said he's going to look around or backups in case Hoke gets fired, which is totally consistent with his only reason for questioning us last year after some Buckeye trolls started a similar rumor. Instead of taking things at face value you're bashing the program and supporting his decision. People should realize by now that the Internet is no longer a safe place to say whatever you want if you're truly interested in the health of the program. Recruits look on here and don't realize the posters don't actually know shit or have any pull. Media buffoons look on here for a sense o the state of the culture and program. We've seen this very blog cited by major news outlets before. Enough with the goddamn negative hyperbole already.
He's got an opportunity to play in the NFL. Be realistic and again... put yourself in this kid's shoes. He gets to choose. You don't choose for him. It's about wins, losses and bowl games and getting coached up to play in the NFL.
But,thanks for outing yourself.
My roots are very deep for Michigan. But it is naive to think that this young man has the passion for Michigan football right now that we do. If he does come to UM, and I hope to god he does, he will be devoted like we are and forever. But until then it is natural for him to want to understand all the options.
Haha. Ha. Ehh.
I seriously am sick of reading all this stuff. Gob, I blame you.
We now all create ripples in the pond.
If Michigan could win football games this would be a non-issue.
And I think Hand would be here as well.
This falls on Hoke for not cutting his losses with Borges long ago. But if Hone is too stupid to see how Borges lowers the ceiling for the program, then Hoke shouldn't be head coach.
So Ace Williams caused this?
Nope, he's gone. I appreciate his perspective and the reasons for it, but he's gone, this is the first step of a long decommitment.
Classy statement with understandable motivation and I wish him the best.
Not a chance Hoke gets fired this off-season. He will be forced to make a few changes to the staff on the offensive side of the ball, but he's not getting richrod'ed.
1. Hoke will be given at least one more year. That's axiomatic.
2. Yet, Hoke has to give hope. At this point, firing Borges is the only way he can do this. Winning this weekend and the bowl game might save Borges, because it offers hope. Otherwise, Borges is gone.
3. Anyone blaming the fanbase for reacting to the team's embarassing play this year is just immature. Its really a dumb position. Nobody - Brandon, Hoke, Borges, Coleman - nobody expect fans to not complain. It's the very passion that gives rise to complaints that pays the program's bills and puts money in it's coffers. Passion is antipodal - it takes life just as much as it gives it.
You might be mistaking panic for passion.
This is what the madness surrounding the fanbase results in. Instability is what causes recruits to rethink everything. I'm as frustrated as everyone else, but the attacks on Hoke are over the top for me. This is his third year, and we have had nothing like Rich Rod level cratering. I want the offensive staff to be shaken up, but beyond that, I still believe in Hoke, which seems to be a minority view on the board of late.
We need to relax and give Hoke a litle more time. Patience is difficult, I get it, but I think that's what is required right now. Chill out; it's not like we didn't have seasons like this, record-wise, under LC, or Bo for that matter. The manner in which it has happened has been ugly, no arguments there. But we've been here before, and, in my opinion, we are nowhere near as low as we were during Rich Rod's first two years. Stability is important right now, and patience with Hoke is what is needed at this time.
I dont think the fanbase is what caused this. More than likely people in his ear, not to mention ESPN feeling the need to group Michigan's problems with Florida's problems for whatever reason.
Saw this coming from a mile away, though, and I'm sure others did, too. Put yourself in his shoes, why would you be confident coming here right now? All of the criticisms we've had for this program the past few weeks, you think recruits don't/think feel the same? They're thinking, "is this staff going to put me in the best position to succeed?", and right now, no recruit can feel confident about that. He's doing what he should do. Same reason Hand switched up...you can't blame these guys.
Bottomline, if Michigan finishes strong (highly unlikely, but not impossible), he stays. If they bomb against OSU & Bowl Game, he leaves.
That's correct, I made a mistake in saying the fanbase. I meant the negativity surrounding the program, of which we as fans have a very small role to play. In this technology-driven universe, I do think a site such as this can lead to media picking up on the sentiment of the fan base, and searching for negative stories/angles that way. I'm not saying it is the reason, but it has a small role in that.
As for our staff, for a defensive player, GMAT is as good as it gets aside from Saban, in my humble opinion. But the instability surrounding the coaching staff (just offensive staff?) and general feel of the prorgram right now is leading to all of this.
every weekend had nothing to do with it. This kid is a winner and wants no part of the dinosaur Michigan program.
couldn't have said it better myself
That is so asinine I don't even know what to say. The idea that recruits are cooling on michigan because message board posters are upset, and not because of the terrible performances every week since ND and the blithering incompetence of the coaching staff, is a whole new brand of stupid.
Jabril was talking to Bo Scarborough (committed to Bama) when he said he was going to take some visits too. Well, maybe what happened is that Bo had a GREAT time (wink wink) at UCLA (TVH said that was school he was interested in visiting) and told Jabril to check it out and Jabril answered that way and now he is simply trying to soften the visit...As I have already said...Jabril is all BLUE!!!
But what's "TDS?" When he says beat TDS?
Team down south
I think he'll stay committed -- as was noted elsewhere this might his way of showing support for Hoke.
wow i dont blame peppers at all given the recent product on the field. hand made the best decision for himself and peppers needs to as well. but hoke cannot let this kid get away. he jumps off the screen as an athlete and UM does not have anyone even in the same universe agility wise. would be the most talented DB on the field for UM next year, by far....if he remains committed and the coaches actually get him reps (im sure mattison and hoke want him terrorizing O's from the slot from day 1 but will they platoon him with lesser talented guys??). man i really want to watch him play in maize and blue but ill tune in wherever he ends up, kids that special
Watch what you say! He could be reading this right now!!!
what is not news: team loses a lot, looks bad in other wins, and kids think about going elsewhere.
what is news (to me at least): morons on message board blame other message-board posters for possible loss of recruits. seriously? have the hoke apologists gone completely nuts?
Just win baby!
morons on message board blame other message-board posters for possible loss of recruits
That's funny, I seem to recall Brian doing exactly that a while back, to the point of banning long-time posters. There was even a tweet from a recruit saying he'd been put off by some posts here, though it all got worked out in the end.
Maybe Brian's a moron too. What do I know?
Just the first step in the process. No saving this one like DD.
So he's not 100% committed to Michigan. He's 100% committed to Hoke.
He ain't coming
knows the policy and than gonna go elsewhere
He's got Hand and Scarborough in his ear
The UCLA thing is just a tactic to distract the inevitable.
Decommittment by Christmas
Peppers to Bama By Army All American Game
Now Hoke's best quality is reared ineffective by actual play on field/Al Borges. If he can't recruit now then he brings much less to the table. Commence unraveling.
I hate to say it but Peppers might actually get Hoke attention re Borges where we could not. It's fine to blindly support your friend when the only real "heat" you are getting for his incompetence is a bunch of idiot internet posters like us. It's quite another thing to start potentially losing your 5 star recruits in the process.
I don't want to lose Peppers at all but if it meant finally waking Hoke up to the damage Al is having to the team both now and in the future it might be worth it.
if it takes this how blind/bad is Hoke
He would not be taking other visits if he was still a Michigan recruit. It's wide open IMO. For him to come out and say something publicly means he's probably already decided he doesn;t want to go to Michigan. He can say whatever he wants now to try to put the cat back in the bag, but we've seen this too many times, he is probably gone.
1 player or recruit will not make or break us.
I hate to say, but following UM football has officially shifted from enjoyable to flat out painful. Missing out on Hand was a tough pill to swallow. Gardner's struggles have been a tough pill to swallow. Getting dominated by MSU and Nebraska were tough pills to swallow. Losing to PSU in OT was a tough pill to swallow. But, now possibly losing Peppers is more than I can take. I am officially taking time away from following UM football outside of watching games. No more press conferences, no more blogs, no more Twitter, no more recruiting news. I'll find out what happens when it actually happens on the field like most fans. I just can't bear to follow along and die a slow death of a thousands needles. It's not fun any longer.
If you'd have told me back in August that things would unravel like this I never would have believed it. Granted, Peppers has not actually decommitted, but I think the writing is on the wall. Maybe DB needs to be a bit more vocal in his support of Hoke to save a few recruits.
If more than 3 top flight recruits start to decommit, Hoke's departure might become a reality. At this point, I do not see how Borges get to keep his job...
I'm of the opinion that if you're really firm in your commitment, you don't need to make public statements about how firm in your commitment you are. Color me extremely skeptical / nervous here.
I think he's gone for the same reason. It won't happen right away but his statement is setting the stage for a decommitment.
Or, if you take his statement at face value, it makes perfect sense. He's concerned Hoke might be gone; he wants to play here for Hoke but doesn't want to be left high and dry if that isn't possible. So he announces he's looking around, just in case.
But, not being stupid, he's aware that when he announces he's looking around it's going to look bad, might destabilize the program, and especially Hoke's position, even more. So he makes sure it's clear that he wants Hoke here, that his commitment basically depends on it even.
I'm sure he's hearing otherwise from e.g. Nick Saban but I haven't heard a single credible source suggest Hoke's job is in any jeopardy right now, so not sure where he's getting that nonsense.
He's getting it from other recruiters, he's hearing "hot seat territory" hints of it on ESPN. He doesn't have access to "credible sources" so he goes with what he's got.
I call bullshit. Where is this coming from?
Even if this is true, it doesn't mean much. You can talk to any JH (Jack? John? Jimmy?) agent all you want . If he/she hangs up on you, what does that accomplish ?
So what if he goes, its not the end IMO..someone else is waiting in line
People place way too much emphasis on the product on the field. Do recall that one Denard Robinson came to Michigan after watching the 2008 disaster. Do recall that one Charles Woodson came to UM after consecutive 8-4 seasons.Recruits are not that swayed by poor seasons. See Ole Miss from last year for further confirmation of this.
The kid is not gone. He might be if Hoke is fired, but I think he stays if Hoke stays. Peppers is doing his due diligence in checking out other schools in case Hoke is fired.
And if he does decommit Michigan will survive.
This is getting really depressing. What a train wreck.
Michigan Football's FB page has been pretty bad lately...as far as idiots calling for Hoke to be fired.
Come on Jabrill! Michigan is where you belong. We want you in Ann Arbor! Let's Go Blue!
If we could miraculously beat and ruin Ohio's season, all of this speculation would be put to rest.
This season could become even more of a disaster than I thought. My opinion is that Hoke is good at 2 things. Recruiting and clapping hands to rile up the Blue Hairs. If he loses Hand and Peppers, he isn't good at anything I care about.
It is permitted for Brandon to directly contact Peppers at this point in the process? If so perhaps a reassuring phone call might be in order.
I've followed UM for lots of years and losing him won't make any diff. Face it fans Michigan is not and has not been an elite team for over 30 years. (One off in 97) look at the records. One or two elite recruits will not make any difference. It's all on the player development and play calling.
In other words....michigan hasn't been an elite team in 30 years, except when they were elite. Lol great logic