Basketball recruiting question

Submitted by James Burrill Angell on

I'm almost sorry to post something that isn't about a coaching change but I was at the Syracuse game the other night and had a question about basketball recruiting. I don't follow that well but have we recruited anyone for 2015? I know we have that shooting guard who has to sit after he transferred from Amherst but is anyone else of any significance coming in in case we lose LeVert and Irvin?? Do we have our hand in with anyone of high ranking recruit range if that were to happen?

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True Blue Grit

December 4th, 2014 at 1:38 PM ^

having to sit out a year (and so is basically a 2015 player with 3 years of eligibility left, it's accepted pretty much Michigan would take one more guy at most.  And that's only if he was someone worth giving a scholarship to.  Pretty much all of their targets have not panned out, so it's very likely they may bank the scholarship for next year.  Jaylen Brown is one longshot their still recruiting.  I think they're also still after Caleb Swanigan of Ft. Wayne.  But, he's a Sparty lean and is unlikely to come here.  So, unless the coaches pull someone out of nowhere next spring, that's what it is.  

Joined: 01/21/2011

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James Burrill Angell

December 4th, 2014 at 1:56 PM ^

I must say, from a very outside vantage point, why the heck aren't we recruiting better in basketball?? I appreciate that Beilien gets the most out of players but our Final Four trip and last year's conference title were centered around guys who were top 75 recruits. Without Irvin and LeVert I don't see who on this roster is going to fill the scoring shoes. The others look like solid role players but I don't see the kind of players who could carry a team in that group. 

Joined: 08/12/2009

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Coldwater

December 4th, 2014 at 2:11 PM ^

That's the million dollar question. It remains a mystery why Beilein struggles recruiting the top level guys.

He's not flashy. He not one of these coaches that's going to write a book. Perhaps some flashy, 5 star studs want to be at a program with a more bling and sex appeal.

Joined: 12/14/2008

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alum96

December 4th, 2014 at 2:21 PM ^

Agreed.  It is the same thing in football terms they complain about on the RCMB.  Dantonio only in the last class (2014) has really started to pick up some studs like McDowell.  This year they are getting some offensive studs like Larry Scott (I believe #3 RB in the country).  But it has taken 4-5 years of top end results - this is their 4th year out of 5 of with double digit wins and it took a Rose Bowl win, and conference championship win to really even get those type of recruits looking at them.

From what everyone says bball recruiting is also a different animal.  You begin these relationships often in 9th grade now.  Especially the top guys.  So 9th/10th graders now see UM success so I assume it helps down the road. 

Also UK sucking up so many of the top 20 guys every year doesnt help.  I think even Kansas and UNC are getting effected by UK takin in so many of the top guys.

Larger picture the NC game was just 19 months ago or whatever it was.  And a lot of these guys now just want to be 1 and done in the top 20 so I imagine the recruiting pitch of Beilein is very different than Bill Self or Calipari.

Where Beilein has made hay other the obvious out of nowhere guys like Caris is find elite talent very early when no one else sees them as elite - that is how GR3 and Irvin came to be.  We were on them when they were not top 50 recruits and they skyrocketed late in their HS careers.   Probably for UM it is better to focus on those guys ranked 25-75 rather than top 20 which is a whole different animal.   They way we develop I'd rather have 2 and dones from that group than trying to pry 1 and dones away from Calipari and Coach K.

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AnthonyThomas

December 4th, 2014 at 2:39 PM ^

Ok, so we've been a top program for 2.5 years. What about Duke, UK, UNC, Lville, etc.? Basketball isn't like football. One recruit can make your class. Had Beilein landed just one guy in the last two years, guys who ended up at the top programs in the sport, this wouldn't be a conversation. Basketball recruiting starts early. Kids are being courted when they are in middle school. Michigan was not good when most of these kids were first being recruited. It takes time to build a reputation. Yeah we've put guys in the NBA, all within the last two years, when many of these kids have been developing relationships with schools and coaches for the last four or five years. 

Joined: 11/13/2010

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PB-J Time

December 4th, 2014 at 3:26 PM ^

Multiple factors.

-Bball recruiting starts much earlier (for top end talent in middle school). We only more recently have been a power and when these players started looking U-M may not have been attractive

-Coach B has not as much of a history recruiting 5 & 4* guys. Some of that is purposely as he doesn't want 1-and-done types. He normally finds guys who are under-recruited and likely to blow up (Trey, LeVert, Stauskus, and yes GRII...hell even Spike). Any time one moves outside their normal MO they may not be as successful. 

-It also feels worse. In Fball if you miss 2-3 guys its MUCH easier to find 2-3 repleacement cause there are more players for more spots. A couple misses feels like (and to a certain extent is) a big deal. It only takes a big player landed though to really change things for the better (right Mitch? right Trey?)

-one last (admittedly smaller) factor. We're adidas. Seriously some of these players (or their family, handlers, etc.) do not want them to be away from the cash cow that is Nike.

Joined: 09/06/2012

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True Blue Grit

December 4th, 2014 at 3:48 PM ^

it's possible 2015 is just an aberration.  Also, my suspicion is (with no evidence really) that at least in regard to big men, we're being negative recruited by other programs that say Beilein runs a perimeter-oriented offense which under-emphasizes bigs.  Maybe that's partially true but ignores the key role of and development seen in guys like Morgan and McGary.  My theory doesn't however, explain why we've lost out on guys like Dozier or Kennard.

Joined: 01/21/2011

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LSAClassOf2000

December 4th, 2014 at 1:54 PM ^

I do want to say - as a mod - thanks for a non-CC thread. This comes just as I was considering asking if we could switch this up a bit and have threads like this tagged "Not CC" and then untagged threads would be presumed to be about potential coaching hires for the football program. 

If anyone is interested, the UM Hoops summary is here - LINK - along with information on some of the prospective targets and "watch list" candidates.

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alum96

December 4th, 2014 at 2:06 PM ^

Beilein went for a lot of big fish in 2015 and for whatever reason they turned him down.  I feel bad for Coach B because fergodsakes he is churning out guys to the NBA like a boss and can take no stars like Spike and make them meaningful Big 10 players.

We basically have a transfer coming in and that's it.

2016 he is again going for some big fish.  I hope he can land some.  We do need some elite athletic types no matter what the ranking. 

Joined: 04/28/2012

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ak47

December 4th, 2014 at 2:09 PM ^

I'll probably get negged for this but this feels a little like the sparty football situation.  We are winning a lot and our coach is great at developing talent but it hasn't quite translated into elite recruiting yet.  I'm not as worried about it as I would be in football since one or two elite players can change a team in a hurry in basketball and you can always hope to see a big jump from chatman, walton, dawkins, and donnel next year and the team would still be pretty good just not elite.  

2016 is the year though, we are in on a few big recruits, if we don't land any I'll start to get a bit nervous but if we pull in one or two of the big recruits I think we ill be right on track.

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UMaD

December 4th, 2014 at 3:14 PM ^

But the 2012 class was a top 10 class, which Sparty has never had.  Beilein did really well in recruiting in 2012 and 2013 (3 top 100 guys) but then 2014 and 2015 where failures in terms of getting the Plan A guys.  Beilein's a good coach so we'll be OK with the Spikes, Burkes, LeVerts and such, but to get back to the national title we'll also need the McGary, Robinson, Irvin types.

All our eggs are in the 2016 basket right now.

Joined: 07/02/2008

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treyburkescousin

December 4th, 2014 at 4:44 PM ^

So, who are we going to lose to the NBA at the end of this year? I can see us either losing just levert, or losing nobody. Walton isn't ready and needs to develop more, Irvin is blossoming but also could be very dominant in his third year as a wolverine... and Levert: he is the obvious one to go, but i really think he could use another year to improve his game. Whats everyone else's thoughts?

Joined: 12/04/2014

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treetown

December 4th, 2014 at 5:21 PM ^

As some have pointed out, it is not a lack of trying, but

1. This Addidas/Nike thing is probably real but not huge but might be a factor in some kids whose AAU teams are in the Nike stream.

2. It isn't for everybody - what Beilein is asking isn't for everybody. While he is open enough to let kids bomb away (so long as they stay hot and are on a streak) it doesn't seem like he is the type to promise to run the offense through any particular guy or highlight any particular player.

3. Not everyone thinks they need help - for some of the very top recruits they've been hearing how they will be a lottery pick in the NBA since they were in 7th grade so the notion that they have to work on their games is not in their view of the universe. They know going to college is useful and showcasing their skills and playing at the next level but the basic idea that they can still learn and improve may not be a strong one.

4. Somethings are out of his control - injuries and unfortunate things like the McGary suspension. With McGary we'd have a super powerful squad and probably be drawing a lot more publicity.

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