Ball State perspective on new S&C Coach

Submitted by michgoblue on

The following article appeared on TheWolverine.com.  Most of it is just fluff about a current Ball State player who is positive and Hoke and Kecklinski (WR Coach).

The part that I found interesting was the last 2 paragraphs:

Orsbon also shared a little scoop on strength and conditioning coach Aaron Wellman while noting that BSU's current strength coach, Mark Naylor, is leaving his current position to join Wellman at Michigan.

"He's not a huge Olympic lifts coach," Orsbon said. "They stress squats and bench press but it's a lot of controlled lifts and heavy sets. They want to get you bigger, stronger, tougher and more explosive to help with your speed."
 

What I find interesting about this (but only because I am a weight lifter) was that Wellman is not all that into the Oylmpic lifts.  This seems to be diametrically opposed to the Barwis philosophy, in which Olympic lifts were the focus.  Both Wellman and Barwis are highly respected, but they appear to employ very different styles.  My own personal opinion is that both styles have their merits. 

My personal opinion (and while I am pretty into this stuff, nobody is lining up to pay me $250,000 a year to do run their S&C program) is that the Olympic lifts work best for O and D linemen.  Why?  These position players primarily rely on an initial burst of speed/power.  This is most directly mirrored by the Olympic style of lifting. 

Wide receivers, RBs and defensive backs, on the other hand, require a more sustained burst which certainly benefits from Olympic lifting, but also benefits from controlled, heavy sets.  I could go into a discussion of type A / type b muscle fibers, but it would inspire a round of "tl/dr" replies.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

michgoblue

January 21st, 2011 at 3:03 PM ^

There are two types of muscle fibers - Type A and Type B (sometimes called fast twitch and slow twitch).  Both perform different functions and are trained differently.  Using legs as an example, sprinting relies heavily on Type A (fast twitch) muscle fibers, whereas long distance running relies more upon Type B (slow twitch).  So, once you know your goal, you will want to train in such a way that maximizes the type of muscle fiber that relates more directly to your goal.  A sprinter would spend far more type on dynamic, heavy Olympic lifts such as power squats, jump squats - i.e. lifts that require you to move a ton of weight at maximum speed and a short number of reps.  By contrast, a distance runner might focus more on isolation exercises like leg extensions done at a controlled pace, with a moderate weight for a higher number of reps.

As a basic tenet, Type A fibers have the ability to grow larger.  Also, it is a given that no S&C coach will exclusively train only type A or B fibers. 

As this relates to football, linemen require an initial burst of power into the trench, and 3-5 seconds of sustained "push."  This is clearly maximized by Type A focussed training, which would be the Barwis-style Olympic lifst.  As to other positions, a mix generally is thought to work best.

tl/dr

quakk

January 21st, 2011 at 5:01 PM ^

A couple of years ago, I knew there were at least three.  Looks like they've created more categories now.

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=20476

http://muscle.ucsd.edu/musintro/fiber.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_muscle

The categories are basically determined by the main means of energy production, either oxygen-independent (fast, when oxygen has been totally consumed), or oxygen-dependent (slow), and rate of fatique.

Think of your breathing patterns during high- or low-intensity workouts.  At high intensity, you run out of breath rapidly, oxygen supply is depleted, and energy must be produced in the absence of oxygen.

profitgoblue

January 21st, 2011 at 3:02 PM ^

Personally, I have foregone all other exercises and simply do 250 clean-and-jerks before breakfast every morning.  I find that they really improve my body mass index and really get me going and ready for sitting at my desk for the next 10 hours.

DrewandBlue

January 21st, 2011 at 3:40 PM ^

advocate of good humor.  One of the reasons I enjoy visiting this blog!  I'm simply telling you it doesn't belong here.  Also, you're ridiculous follow up to your dim-witted joke even more so reinforces my point. 

I would just apologize and go on your way. 

SWFLWolverine

January 21st, 2011 at 4:57 PM ^

As the father of a 6 year old with Down syndrome I want to encourage you to give this a little more thought. The idea that its funny to make fun of individuals with intellectual disabilities because we some how feel superior to them is sad. I assure you that I feel very blessed to be the father of my daughter. Her ability to love unconditionally, to trust in people unconditionally, to see only the good in people is unmatched. She is not bogged down by the fears of an unjust world. It was a minor miracle that my daughter made it to birth since nearly  80% of pre-term babies are miscarried or stillborn. Still yet 90% of the remaining 20% who make it fall victims of abortion. Posting pictures of individuals with DS as a "joke" is not helping the way our society views individuals with intellectual disabilities as a subhuman species and would rather terminate them because they would merely be a burden to us.

Jensencoach

January 21st, 2011 at 2:57 PM ^

I have not heard any S&C guys say that they are not big into the olympic lifts.  I would be interested to see what the work out routine is like.  I am guessing you would have to do more lifts for the specific muscle groups to make up for not doing the olympic lifts that work numerous muscle groups at once. 

michgoblue

January 21st, 2011 at 3:07 PM ^

You can't really make up for a lack of Olympic lifts with muscle-specific training.  I would really be curious to know what Wellman's routine is about - I am sure that he incorporates some Olympic lifts (the Ball State kid even notes the Squats and bench press).

jvick9006

January 21st, 2011 at 3:52 PM ^

You have a very, very basic understanding of strength and conditioning. You cannont train a specific muscle fiber type because all training incorporates both Type A & B muscles fibers, it just depends on the amount of time the exercise takes. Secondly, Olympic lifting consists of Power clean, power snatch, clean & jerk and such. It does NOT include squats, bench press, dumbbells... that would be free weights i.e., dumbbells and barbells.

michgoblue

January 21st, 2011 at 4:15 PM ^

First, I would venture to guess that my understanding of S&C goes well beyond basic, and may even go beyond your understanding.  That aside:

1.  I am aware that you cannot train a specific muscle fiber.  You are correct that all exercises emphasize both.  But, certain movements, done in a certain manner (i.e. rep speed, rep range, etc.) emphasize the development of one type of fiber over the other.  That was my only point.  Obviously (maybe not obvious to everyone, but you seen to know S&C, so obvious to you) if you train a muscle, there is always some involvement of both A & B fibers.

2.  I am also aware (as I said in the post to which you replied) that Bench Press and Squats are not tecnhically Olympic lifts in the sense that they are not done at the Olympics.  But, when people talk about Olympic training and power training, in lay terms, people often include basic "power" moves in the discussion.

jvick9006

January 21st, 2011 at 5:17 PM ^

First, you may have a little over basic understanding of s & c but not to the point you think. Just because you trained doesn't mean you know the science of it. Your understanding definitely does not go beyond mine. I have/continue to train olympians, NFL players, NHLers and MLBers, so you don't know more than me.

Second, power lifting is not even close to olympic lifting, so do not put them in the same category. Power lifting is a 1 rep max of heavy weight being moved slow and consists of bench press, back squat and deadlift. Olympic lifting consists of explosive, 1 rep max moving heavy weight as fast as possible. This includes power clean, power snatch, clean and jerk.

michgoblue

January 21st, 2011 at 11:07 PM ^

Yeah, well the jerk store called and they're running out of you.

Look dude, no offense, but this is the internet - no need to spout off credentials because nobody cares (or had any way to verify it).  I personally do know a lot about S&C because I used to be the S&C coach for USC.  See, not true, but no way to verify it.

The point is that this thread has actually been a great discussion amongst those interested in discussing S&C issues as related to our program.  No need to pull the "I know more than you crap" or to make unsolicited attacks.  

Look at every one of my posts in this thread - I never claimed to be the expert on this stuff.  Just someone who is pretty in to training, is somewhat knowledgeable and looking to discuss the topic. 

I am sure that you are knowledgeable on the topic as well (although if you think that power lifting involves slow movements, I have cause to doubt that). 

michgoblue

January 21st, 2011 at 3:16 PM ^

Ok, some additional thoughts, after seeing this video:

1.  While the Ball state kid claims that there is no emphasis on Olympic lifts, he is only partially correct.  I saw squats, front squats, bench press, dumbell bench press, power curls, power shrugs and numerous other derivations of the big Olympic lifts.

2.  Kettle bells!!  If you don't know what they are, they basically look like cannonballs with handles attached.  They are amazing, and highly effective at building lean mass, losing fat, increasing balance and power and providing core strength (critical for football).  I saw a lot of kettlebell use in these videos.  Now, while this is not tecchnically Olympic lifting, it achieces the same goals.

3.  Non-weight weight training - I am referring to the awesome drill with the truck tire, carrying the plates overhead, etc.  Many in the strength community believe that these moves are more effective for sports training than Olympic lifts.  Why, you are too bored to ask?  Because in Olympic lifts, you are lifting a perfectly balanced weight.  In the real world (i.e. on a football field) you will not be doing that - you will be moving an off balanced line man or blocker and he will not be coming at you directly from center.  Flipping that tire over and over is more relevant to football than power cleans, and it has the same benefits.

This is some awesome stuff.