makes no sense.
makes no sense.
After watching the middle of our DL struggle and knowing that Martin, RVB, and Heininger are graduating why wouldn't you load up on elite DT prospects? Other than WR there is no other position that needs attention this badly. Unless they think they can move some of the recruits from DE to DT I don't see why you wouldn't put the full court press on an in-state DT who has played well. This sounds like Hankins all over again!!!
If you want to try and find a positive in it, if they (the staff) think spots are too tight for O'Brien then we're looking pretty good for a bunch of the other big names on the list.
Let's not forget that Wormley, Godin and Strobel could all rotate between 5- and 3-tech.
Im not hugely athrilled with anyone except Godin switching to the 3tech..
Wormley is athletic and fast not a squat huge immovable object (think we would waste his far superior talents putting him inside)
And Strolbel is a SDE if ever I saw one. The point in the 4-3 over of the SDE is to be able to take on a TE and T combo stand up and prevent them from chipping off to the SAM. On passing plays, its chuck the TE and beat a T 1 on1 .. that is Strobel all day.
Im not high on anyone of these guys mostly becasued they are all 6'5.. which tends to make it more difficult to get under the pad level and keep leverage on the inside (see BWC)
The 3 tech is a penetrating defensive tackle and therefore doesnt need to be an immovable object. I actually think if Wormley comes in and plays his Freshman year at about 280-290 he will be at a great weight. Also, while being tall definatley makes it harder to play with great leverage there are many players in college and the NFL who do so at 6-5 and even taller. I think Campbell's issues stem from a lack of coaching during his youth football days through high school.
I don't like throwing that out, but if you can't trust this staff to evaluate their needs on the DL what can you trust them to do?
Going into next season we will most likely have no proven players at DT except for arguably Campbell, who will be a senior. When you have so many question marks, you have to have numbers. I was as pleased as anyone to see Pipkins commit, but (as with any recruit at any position except maybe punter) he is a prospect and there is no guarantee that he will be effective at the college level. The position would look a lot better with O'Brien, a high school DT with a DT build, than with "maybe we can move one of these tall, lean DEs to tackle".
If there's one position group that people should stop questioning about recruiting, it's D-line. Hoke is a D-line coach. Mattison looks like he knows what he's doing. We also have our uber recruiting Beyonce coach there.
If they are in agreement that they probably don't need another DT, it means they have some sort of plan about that spot, or are worried more about other spots (OL and WR come to mind). I'd trust their skills over all of the people FREAKING OUT MAN on the internet on the hypothetical commitment of a highly rated high schooler.
Sam was really talking up all of the other defensive linemen already in the class (Strobel, Godin, Wormley as possible DT's) but I would still like to get O'Brien because he already plays DT in HS. I don't think any of our other guys currently play DT besides Pipkins and we are sooooo thin at DT after this season.
I also noticed Sam mention that we are not really the leader for any of the O-linemen we are still pursuing. He feels we have the best shot at Diamond and Banner, but that we are merely in "good shape" not the outright leader for either.
I'm too lazy to Google for it, but this would be the perfect place for one of those "I HAZ A SAD." cat pictures.
Based on both of those bits of information, I can't help but wonder if the Final Four might look like: 2 WR (Darboh and Payton), 1 DB (Wright) and 1 RB (Dunn or "other").
Come on down, Yuri Wright.
O'Brien's recruitment has been one of the most difficult ones to understand. At various times, Michigan has been out of it, at others we've been the favorite. At times, he's supposedly cooled on us, at others the coaches supposedly had cooled on him. Who knows how it will end? I hope that he goes Blue, but if he doesn't I hope that he goes to Tennessee as I would hate to face him for the next four years.
We tend to forget sometimes that these are kids. It's especially easy to forget with linemen because they are physically huge. Kids are prone to changing their minds, and you never know what "hot button" is going to work and what one isn't. No recruit is going to ruin a great class with his absence. There are plenty to go around. Also, as one poster mentioned, Mattison and Hoke should be trusted, and they will find a way to put a decent defense out on the field.
I definitely agree that I don't want to see him end up in EL, though. I hope a little bit of "southern hospitality" goes a long way in this case.
Please be wrong Sam. I've had visions of Pipkins and Obrien caving in the middle of opposing O lines for months. Please don't crush my dreams
Mine were already crushed when Sheldon Day committed to the Domers. Man, I wanted to see Pipkins (NT) and Day (DT) crushing fools for 3-4 years. Then, I finally got over losing Day to ND when it seemed like we had overtaken UT for O'Brien and now....crushing despair...again.
(Hyperbole used for dramatic effect)
as much as I would like to get the top talent in the state, we are by no means short on talent in this class at DL, I would almost prefer getting Dunn, 2 WRs and Banner
Yeah Sam made it sound like it was less about Danny O cooling on Michigan and more about Michigan cooling on him. I think the staff decided if they are only going to take one more defensive recruit they might rather have a DB like Yuri Wright. 3 of the final 4 spots will go to an offensive player (Diamond/Banner, Dunn - fingers crossed, and Darboh/Payton) and only one will go to a defensive player so I have no problem with it.
With Godin, Wormley, Pipkins, Strobel, Ojemudia, and Pharaoh I think there are plenty of guys who are on the DL (with Godin and Wormley as possibilities to play on the inside). I think CB may be a bigger priority because Standifer may move to safety and therefore Terry Richardson would be the only CB in this class. And as talented as Terry is, it is not a sure thing that a 5'8-9 170 lb. CB will ever see the field. Yuri Wright is a stud and given the choice of him or Danny O I'd take Yuri.
I think Danny will be a stud but I think with scholarships low, we need to address our needs more.
If I had to choose between Yuri Wright and O'Brien, I'd also take Yuri. Being greedy, I'd still like both.
It makes me feel better when I remind myself that this is just one recruiting class. Each year this staff is going to bring in more quality defensive lineman, so in a few years our depth will be outstanding and the players will know the system and be all coached up. There...I feel better now.
yes, given the limited schollies and the # of top recruits on the board, i still question the FB scholarship. i would think we could get an adequate preferred walk on at FB.
I also thought I heard Sam say that either Banner or Garnett as being a Washington lean at this time. I can't imagine that we pull both of them, and I am really starting to think the Diamond ship has sailed as well. Webb also touched on him and said he was up in the air and looking hard at Wisky and Illinois.
The DT position is the only one I'm surprised about with this coaching staff. If they want to be able to rotate the DL, they don't seem to be recruiting enough for rotating the interior. Maybe they are just really high on some 2013 guys, and feel fine with Godin and Pipkins for the interior in this class.
Godin and Wormley both project to the 3-tech or 5-tech, and the staff knows the current players more than anyone else. I guess they're satisfied with BWC/Pipkins/Godin/Wormley at DT, and while thats very young and thin, I dont think O'brien adds as much to that as, say, Darboh would add to our WR situation.
"I dont think O'brien adds as much to that as, say, Darboh would add to our WR situation. "
I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head here. The complete lack of an emergence of a go to WR and RB has played a big role in this, in my opinion.
It's difficult for a "go to wide receiver" to emerge when the quarterback is spraying the ball all over the place. He's completed only about 43% of his passes over the past couple games, and not many of those incompletions have been drops.
but the pre-season practice reports were not glowing of the wr corps either. The point is I think the staff has weighed the relative need of taking a second DT versus getting skill positions on offense and determined that those skill positions are a more pressing need given the play to date and the current makeup of the recruiting class.
I'm not sure I disagree with them, if that is indeed the case. Or perhaps this is all spin out of Webb and O'Brien simply was never going to go to Michigan, which is certainly possible.
I'm not saying you're entirely wrong. All I'm saying is that quarterbacks and receivers are reliant upon each other, and with Denard throwing the ball the way he has, it's not difficult to understand why a "go to" receiver hasn't appeared. And if Denard was throwing the ball inaccurately during practice as well, then I don't know why practice reports would have been glowing for the receivers then, either.
and that Denard's struggles are affecting the WR.
But wouldn't it make more sense for a 2012 recruit to look a Gardner or Morris as the QB that will be throwing to them? Denard will be a senior when they are freshman
The things 17-year-olds do rarely make sense.
I'm in total agreement here. It also might say something about our future formations. We've been bringing in a lot of linebacker types lately as well as DE/DT tweeners like Godin and Wormley. It could be a sign that Michigan is transitioning to the 3-4. In two or three years maybe we'll see a line of Godin/Pipkins/Wormley up front and then guys like Beyer as OLBs. To me, this seems like the best explanation unless some of the guys who are listed as DEs are going to fill out and move inside. I just question whether we have the depth to give guys like Wormley that kind of time to develop.
If that's the case, bringing in Payton and some of the other WRs we've been targeting would be good. Our depth at the WR position isn't overwhelming.
BWC is a senior next year. After what does our 2 deep look like at NT.
As it stands we'd be starting BWC and Pipkins next year (unless another DT on our depth chart blows up). We'd then have a year to grow one of the current DEs into a 3 Tech. Keep in mind in the 4-3 under, you have a DE playing like a DT. So clearly some of the DEs being recruited as a DT like substance.
I think the imperative thing is to get a nose tackle a year to keep depth there. Also anyone who can't develop as 1-Tech can compete for the 3-Tech spot (as BWC seems to kind of be doing). I really don't need to heavily recruit 3-Tech when you can fill it by growing your large DEs to fill it or moving a failed 1-Tech into it. It's a "tweener" posistion for lack of a better word.
The thought of that makes me whince. I realize that it might happen. I don't mean to knock the kid, but how many true freshman DTs are ever very good?
I cringe as well. Hopefully BWC is fully online as a 1 Tech next year and Pipkins can rotate the 3 Tech with a few others. Then Pipkins shifts to 1 Tech after BWC graduates.
This reminds me why I think that Michigan won't be a real Big Ten title contender until 2013 or even 2014. They seemingly just won't have the D-line to do it until then. There's too big a gap between Martin & RVB and the 2012 class.
Probably 2014 because even if we take an insane DL class in 2012, they would still be true freshmen for that season. ND has shown some promise from their insane DL class for 2011, but their line clearly isn't elite yet.
Aaron Lynch looks like he's going to be a top ten draft pick. That kid is unreal for a true freshman...Kelly is going to turn them into a national title contender, I tells ya.
Let's not completely forget Q and Ash. They aren't getting rave reviews right now, but they're not going to be true frosh either. I think a rotation of Q and Pipkins at nose and BWC and Ash at 3 tech is very likely.
Brady Hoke is a D Line coach. I wouldn't worry.
Something has changed. O'Brien was our lean, and now is leaning elsewhere. Sounds like one side or another cooled on him.
Kind of sucks, because we could probably have had Schutt instead of O'Brien.
But that is in the past. This class will still be solid. Wormley, Pipkins, Godin, and maybe some others are headed for the DL. This is a very solid class defensively, though O'Brien would have made it stronger.
Finishing out with 2 WR, Yuri Wright and/or (God please) Shaq Thompson, and a RB (again, God, Brionte please?) would be awesome. Banner at OL would be great, and I think he is leaning our way.
So yeah, sucks, but won't hurt us too bad long run. All's well that end's well.
Yeah, the Schutt thing makes zero sense to me now. I'm very confused as to what the staff is thinking regarding the future of our DL.
Between Pipkins and O'Brien I'm not sure which one of them would be idealy suited for doing that.
I don't think we can get too worked up over losing any one player. If I were building Michigan like the team was a video game (that's how it works, right?), I would want O'Brien. Otherwise I'm inclined to give Hoke, Mattison, etc. the benefit of the doubt (assuming they've really cooled on him). If O'Brien wants to go to Tenn, well then hey, the Smoky Mountains are a great place to go hiking.
Cue the banjo music.
"hiking"...no thanks. Deliverance?
Very weird recruiting strategy on the D-line here by this staff. The only guy in the class who's a lock at DT is Pipkins. With our depth chart, we need at least two. Even three would have been nice. Maybe Godin can overacheive as a 3-tech or maybe Strobel or Wormley can grow into the 3-tech spot, but why would you lock yourself into that strategy? Especially when you need guys who are ready to contribute as true freshmen. And for all we know, Pipkins could be a bust. We've got lots of eggs in a few unproven baskets right now.
the millions of dollars we are shelling out to pay the coaches come in... and why you do not get paid millions of dollars to assess what we need.
Have some faith that our coaching staff knows what they are doing.
I have heard this rationale a lot in my posting days. "Trust the coaches". It's not irrational. But I'll be damned if some decision makers don't do some things that are obviously dumb when they do them. Carr keeping around Hermann for about five years too long and then bringing Debord back to Michigan. Dave Brandon letting the Michigan football program decay in limbo for a month in a half, essentially without a coach. Kirk Frerentz stupidly kicking the ball on every single fourth down regardless of distance and situation. UCLA hiring Rick Neuheisel as their coach. Rich Rodriguez loading up the roster with questionable 3* slot receivers on offense while his defense was in shambles. Les Miles's brain melting down whenever the clock goes under two minutes. Luke Fickell saving his timeouts for offense. All stuff that looks dumb before we know the results, and then is proven to that way when we get the results. Sometimes as a fan I feel like a backseat driver and I'm watching the car head towards a brick wall at 50 miles per hour. I'm told that the driver is an expert and that I should trust him, but that car is still headed at the wall at 50 miles per hour.
So here we are, with only one DT on our entire roster right now that we trust enough to consistently play in place of a walk-on. We only have one blue chip DT in our 2012 class, and we are not aggressively trying to shore up that position by pursuing prospects that top programs around the country want. I"m scratching my head trying to figure out what the thought process is, and why we would want to bank the future of the defensive line on such thin ground.